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Author Topic: HOY  (Read 4061 times)
CLOCKERbiggestal
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« Reply #50 on: November 08, 2010, 11:50:01 PM »

I think she was.

Lets see she lost to a horse she was getting weight from.

Not exactly sure how that equates to the best horse in a race.

 clocker biggestal
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fuzzypants
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« Reply #51 on: November 09, 2010, 12:04:49 AM »

wether you agree or not with her campaign, you got to give credit to sheriffs for sending her out fit ready and happy every time thru 4 and a half years of training. thats an eternity in horseracing. unbelievably hard to do. it takes a special horse but the job he did with her was unbelievable. so many more problems for him with  her just being a female. one of the great training jobs in horseracing history.
Now this is a poster  understands what it takes to keep a horse of sound! Not just talking physical   sound her mine her attitude is wanting to do it and physically capable. For a horse to come from behind like she always does and to only get beat once. Says book fulls.
Once you see her live you will never forget her.
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brianwspencer
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« Reply #52 on: November 09, 2010, 12:32:30 AM »

Lets see she lost to a horse she was getting weight from.

Not exactly sure how that equates to the best horse in a race.

 clocker biggestal

I would hope you could expound on that -- it would be far too simplistic an analysis above, so I'll wait and hope there's something more to it.

I've seen 10lb apprentices lose a race that they were best in, but it certainly never boiled down to the ten pounds being a write-off.

I know there are ways to disagree that she was best, and I respect those, but this is way too 3rd-day in Horseplayer 101 to cut it, and I know you're sharper than that. Any analysis of the actual race?
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CLOCKERbiggestal
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« Reply #53 on: November 09, 2010, 12:50:29 AM »

I would hope you could expound on that -- it would be far too simplistic an analysis above, so I'll wait and hope there's something more to it.

I've seen 10lb apprentices lose a race that they were best in, but it certainly never boiled down to the ten pounds being a write-off.

I know there are ways to disagree that she was best, and I respect those, but this is way too 3rd-day in Horseplayer 101 to cut it, and I know you're sharper than that. Any analysis of the actual race?

Both horses had a trouble free run. Both ran in the style they were accostomed to.
Blame gave Zenyatta 3lbs. Blame won by a head. seems to me very horse racing 101 if you ask me.

Blame the better horse on Saturday.


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brianwspencer
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« Reply #54 on: November 09, 2010, 12:53:32 AM »

Both horses had a trouble free run. Both ran in the style they were accostomed to.
Blame gave Zenyatta 3lbs. Blame won by a head. seems to me very horse racing 101 if you ask me.

Blame the better horse on Saturday.


 clocker biggestal

Style, yes. Trip, no.

I disagree, but that's what makes racing go 'round.
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mel4600
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« Reply #55 on: November 09, 2010, 01:02:12 AM »

Blame should get it. Both horses have one loss and Blame won the Classic. On top of that he is retiring to stud and the HOY honor will add to his fee. He should not be the scapegoat for past mistakes.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2010, 01:14:33 AM by mel4600 » Report to moderator   Logged
CLOCKERbiggestal
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« Reply #56 on: November 09, 2010, 07:20:53 AM »

Blame should get it. Both horses have one loss and Blame won the Classic. On top of that he is retiring to stud and the HOY honor will add to his fee. He should not be the scapegoat for past mistakes.

and no doubt about it. Zenyatta deserved it last year. it was a mistake by the racing press to deny Zenyatta her due in 2009. she was the best horse. beat most of the best horses. (well the ones that entered the classic) and should have won last year.

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« Reply #57 on: November 09, 2010, 10:27:33 PM »

Yes, Zenyatta should have won it last year.  By far.
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Alpha Mare
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« Reply #58 on: November 09, 2010, 10:40:53 PM »

Yes, Zenyatta should have won it last year.  By far.


i will always disagree on this...the female with the BEST CAMPAIGN won it last yr.....things no THREE yr old filly has ever done.....and i think doing them as a 3 yr old is what sealed the deal....
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CLOCKERTERRY
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« Reply #59 on: November 10, 2010, 12:04:20 AM »

and no doubt about it. Zenyatta deserved it last year. it was a mistake by the racing press to deny Zenyatta her due in 2009. she was the best horse. beat most of the best horses. (well the ones that entered the classic) and should have won last year.

I heard it was finally, officially, decided there was going to be no re-do, no matter how much people whined.
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thoroughbred
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« Reply #60 on: November 10, 2010, 12:15:23 AM »

I am trying really hard to see it some other way, but every time I watch the replay, to see Zenyatta closing the way she did, catching up to Blame and missing by a head, nose, call it what you will, I just can't see how you can say Blame was the better horse in this race. No doubt he won, but I can't see saying he was better. Ran a better race, OK, but the superior horse? Nope I can't see it. jmho.

 
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Alpha Mare
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« Reply #61 on: November 10, 2010, 07:35:21 AM »

I am trying really hard to see it some other way, but every time I watch the replay, to see Zenyatta closing the way she did, catching up to Blame and missing by a head, nose, call it what you will, I just can't see how you can say Blame was the better horse in this race. No doubt he won, but I can't see saying he was better. Ran a better race, OK, but the superior horse? Nope I can't see it. jmho.

 

I can't say he was or wasn't the 'best' horse......but what he was, was the 'better' horse on saturday.....she tried her heart out, he was grittier.....it was a great race. it's another of those rare races where durkin would have called "it's blame on the inside, zenyatta on the outside, to the wire, in a race that doesn't deserve a loser!'
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« Reply #62 on: November 10, 2010, 08:38:43 AM »

I am trying really hard to see it some other way, but every time I watch the replay, to see Zenyatta closing the way she did, catching up to Blame and missing by a head, nose, call it what you will, I just can't see how you can say Blame was the better horse in this race.

It's your eyes playing tricks on you. The "visually impressive" phenomenon has been discussed on the forum before.

Whether a horse is a front-runner, a stalker, or a one-run closer, they all have one thing in common -- they exchange energy for position.

Typically, if a front-runner wins by gutting the field with a :22.3 opening quarter, it's not that visually impressive -- he didn't pass any other horses, or anything else that was moving...so we have nothing to which we can compare. Such a horse gets the somewhat dismissive comment, "Loose on the lead".

When Zenyatta runs that same :22.3 quarter -- but at the END of the race (having not done any running whatsoever earlier), when all of the other contestants are puking their guts out -- BOY, does she look fast! Why, she passes everybody! Well, of course she does -- she sucked along, in back, during the first 90% of the race -- she didn't carve any fractions. Why would she be tired?

The danger in being a one-run closer like Zenyatta is the trip: such closers are susceptible to traffic trouble, and that finally did Zenyatta in, after 19 relatively trouble-free trips. The way to offset this problem is clever placement: do you realize that last Saturday is only the 3rd time in her last 11 starts that Zenyatta faced 8 or more opponents? She's only faced MORE than 8 opponents a total of 3 times in her whole career.

On Saturday, she finally encountered a somewhat troubled trip -- the Law of Averages is the only thing that has ever caught her from behind. Great mare that she is, she almost outran that, too.

Almost.  
« Last Edit: November 10, 2010, 08:42:37 AM by Horse Voice » Report to moderator   Logged
NIATROSS
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« Reply #63 on: November 10, 2010, 09:54:31 AM »

Blame's win on his home track in The Classic would be like The Colts winning the Super Bowl at home as -3 favorites.

Losing to Haynesfield a horse who showed nothing in the Classic lessens Blame's resume.


The Blame-Z exacta box was one of the best plays of the day for chalk bettors.

The only 2 in the race who had won at a mile and a quarter.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2010, 09:56:18 AM by NIATROSS » Report to moderator   Logged
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« Reply #64 on: November 10, 2010, 10:07:12 AM »

Blame's win on his home track in The Classic would be like The Colts winning the Super Bowl at home as -3 favorites.

Losing to Haynesfield a horse who showed nothing in the Classic lessens Blame's resume.


The Blame-Z exacta box was one of the best plays of the day for chalk bettors.

The only 2 in the race who had won at a mile and a quarter.


come on trossie, then it's fair to say that zen's win last yr on cali poly at SA on a track she has raced over for 3 yrs is like the chargers winning the super bowl in their home stadium....there is always going to be a 'home track' advantage to some horse in some race....but....why didn't they ship her a week earlier and put her last prep work in over the churchill dirt???  i would have, wouldn't you? especially with a horse who has never been on that track....and btw, blame's 'home base' is keeneland.....not churchill...
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Alpha Mare
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« Reply #65 on: November 10, 2010, 10:09:16 AM »



The Blame-Z exacta box was one of the best plays of the day for chalk bettors.

The only 2 in the race who had won at a mile and a quarter.

whene did blame win at a 1 1/4 miles before saturday?
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Absolutely amazing.......s.m.h.....
OTB
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« Reply #66 on: November 10, 2010, 10:13:41 AM »


i will always disagree on this...the female with the BEST CAMPAIGN won it last yr.....things no THREE yr old filly has ever done.....and i think doing them as a 3 yr old is what sealed the deal....

Best campaign?  What the hell does that mean?  I thought it was horse of the year not best campaign of the year.  I had no problem with RA winning nor would I have had a problem with Zenyatta winning it.  However, if Gio Ponti had won the Classic I think he should have won it.
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« Reply #67 on: November 10, 2010, 10:14:46 AM »

I heard it was finally, officially, decided there was going to be no re-do, no matter how much people whined.

Nobody whines more than you.
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OTB
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« Reply #68 on: November 10, 2010, 10:18:20 AM »

When only a nose or a head separates two horses at the finish line there is usually not much separating their overall talent.  Both are tremendous horses and it certainly helped Blame that the race was at CD.  That being said he ran a great race, you can't take that away from him.

I said all along before the race that if one of the big 4 won the BC Classic then they should be HOY.  I can't deviate now.
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NYRA 792
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« Reply #69 on: November 10, 2010, 10:24:44 AM »

I went back and looked at the works for Blame.
I found

1 @CD
2 @SAR
14 @ KEE

looks like a KEE based horse to me



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SandyLoam
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« Reply #70 on: November 10, 2010, 10:28:35 AM »

Blame was the best horse in the race Saturday. Not only because he won, but he fought off Zenyatta's challenge. Zenyatta came up to meet him and Blame dug in to win. Zenyatta had every chance down the stretch.
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thoroughbred
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« Reply #71 on: November 10, 2010, 10:37:00 AM »

Blame was the best horse in the race Saturday. Not only because he won, but he fought off Zenyatta's challenge. Zenyatta came up to meet him and Blame dug in to win. Zenyatta had every chance down the stretch.

LOL come on now. I'll give him his due he won, but there was no stretch battle there, she made up 4 or 5 lengths on him in the final 16th, and he hung on by a nose. That much I'll give you.
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Bob B
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« Reply #72 on: November 10, 2010, 10:38:58 AM »

Blame's win on his home track in The Classic would be like The Colts winning the Super Bowl at home as -3 favorites.

Losing to Haynesfield a horse who showed nothing in the Classic lessens Blame's resume.


The Blame-Z exacta box was one of the best plays of the day for chalk bettors.

The only 2 in the race who had won at a mile and a quarter.

Haynesfield won at 1 1/4 prior to BC, not Blame.  Paddy O Prado won 2 times at 1 1/4 on turf.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2010, 10:40:34 AM by Bob B » Report to moderator   Logged
OTB
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« Reply #73 on: November 10, 2010, 10:42:19 AM »

Haynesfield won at 1 1/4 prior to BC, not Blame.  Paddy O Prado won 3 times at 1 1/4 on turf.

He was lights out in the JC Gold Cup at 1 1/4.  Then was nowhere in the BC Classic.  I don't think a NY bred has ever won a BC race.
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NIATROSS
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« Reply #74 on: November 10, 2010, 10:48:43 AM »

whene did blame win at a 1 1/4 miles before saturday?

 bang head bang head bang head


WOW, WHAT  A *** I AM !
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