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Author Topic: When Zenyatta loses tomorrow...  (Read 1498 times)
Cablacinasian
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« on: November 05, 2010, 08:36:05 PM »

Who will be more to blame.

I'm going to say Mike Smith will catch the brunt of it all.  Always blame the jockey.

Poor Mike Smith...
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fuzzypants
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« Reply #1 on: November 05, 2010, 08:40:54 PM »

Their would be know blame on any one or anything everyone knows she will do her best and her connections she comes from behind do you know how hard that is to do and not get blocked you are ignant fool and save the matches you been snorting the sulfur to much.
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Cablacinasian
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« Reply #2 on: November 05, 2010, 08:42:44 PM »

Their would be know blame on any one or anything everyone knows she will do her best and her connections she comes from behind do you know how hard that is to do and not get blocked you are ignant fool and save the matches you been snorting the sulfur to much.

I was talking about the zipperheads on this forum.  Her connections are all class. 
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fuzzypants
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« Reply #3 on: November 05, 2010, 08:48:39 PM »

I was talking about the zipperheads on this forum.  Her connections are all class. 
Their are only two zipper heads that attack her and you are one.
So here you go.Looking to start a bunch of crap and in reality lets cross that bridge when we get their but honestly you cant you are as nerveous and shakey as a dog crapping peach pits.
Ignant fool
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pamwaggy
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« Reply #4 on: November 05, 2010, 09:03:28 PM »

Who will be more to blame.

I'm going to say Mike Smith will catch the brunt of it all.  Always blame the jockey.

Poor Mike Smith...

You have NO idea how much I wish you would go away. 
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fuzzypants
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« Reply #5 on: November 05, 2010, 09:16:35 PM »

You have NO idea how much I wish you would go away. 
Pammy some people just like to act stupid cause they cant help them selves and it makes them feel good to get any kind of attention.
You can tell this bumb has know idea about moral character and integrity is what you would call an embarrassment to racing.
He is the kind that hurt racing but sooner or later they all get run out of the business and cry for their stupid slot rebates..
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3 wide and wingin
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« Reply #6 on: November 05, 2010, 11:36:35 PM »

Their are only two zipper heads that attack her and you are one.
So here you go.Looking to start a bunch of crap and in reality lets cross that bridge when we get their but honestly you cant you are as nerveous and shakey as a dog crapping peach pits.
Ignant fool

 thumbs up thumbs up thumbs up
keep up the good work fuzzy pants.
Your little buddy says hi from Md.

I hope she wins. Will be good for all of horse racing.
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Darin Z.
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« Reply #7 on: November 05, 2010, 11:51:28 PM »

Come on dude, Mike Smith?!?! You wanna talk about a big money rider.  Watch some of the rides he has put on horses, like Giacomo in the Derby, Inside Infortmation, Skip Away, Lure...they'll be no one to blame.  If she is good enough she wins. If not, she doesn't. Mike Smith will not get her beat.
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3 wide and wingin
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« Reply #8 on: November 05, 2010, 11:56:56 PM »

I dont follow thoroughbreds alot. I have seen most of her races though.
If I was betting and I am not. I would bet against her because of the dirt/ California synthetic factor.
I would think it has to be by far the biggest negative.
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Darin Z.
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« Reply #9 on: November 06, 2010, 12:02:26 AM »

She has won on dirt, and her acceleration did not diminish on conventional dirt, in fact I like her action better, and feel it is longer reaching and more fluid.  This field is better than last year's.  Just a question of if she is good enough.
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3 wide and wingin
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« Reply #10 on: November 06, 2010, 12:23:34 AM »

She has won on dirt, and her acceleration did not diminish on conventional dirt, in fact I like her action better, and feel it is longer reaching and more fluid.  This field is better than last year's.  Just a question of if she is good enough.

I'm sure shes won on every surface.
You would know more than me. the other California synthetic horses I saw didn't do so well on Friday.
Good luck. I am excited to watch the race. Which is a good thing when the casual fan is excited.
Hope all goes well. No break downs on the whole card please. Is the thing I am hoping for most. And I do hope she wins. In a spectacular fashion. Like last year. Which I thought was second only to Secretariat at the Belmont as far as impressiveness of a race to watch.
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Darin Z.
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« Reply #11 on: November 06, 2010, 12:29:04 AM »

Watch a replay of the 2000 and 2001 BC Classic...youll enjoy them as well.
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3 wide and wingin
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« Reply #12 on: November 06, 2010, 01:03:28 AM »

Watch a replay of the 2000 and 2001 BC Classic...youll enjoy them as well.

Wow thanks. I had seen them on TVG. But never back to back. Impressive. Talk about heart.
But theres something about a horse coming from so far off the pace like Zenyatta.
Where does Tiznow rate as far as all time greats?
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Darin Z.
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« Reply #13 on: November 06, 2010, 01:10:46 AM »

Tiznow gets overlooked.  Aside from the Breeders Cup Classics he won, a lot of people will have a hard time remembering any other race he won, which is a shame.  I think what he lacked in pure talent, he more than made up for with heart, and unwavering determination.  When you look at some of the Classic winners, its hard to believe he is the only won to have won it twice...Alysheba, Sunday Silence, A.P Indy, Cigar, Skip Away, Curlin...
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3 wide and wingin
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« Reply #14 on: November 06, 2010, 01:23:11 AM »

Tiznow gets overlooked.  Aside from the Breeders Cup Classics he won, a lot of people will have a hard time remembering any other race he won, which is a shame.  I think what he lacked in pure talent, he more than made up for with heart, and unwavering determination.  When you look at some of the Classic winners, its hard to believe he is the only won to have won it twice...Alysheba, Sunday Silence, A.P Indy, Cigar, Skip Away, Curlin...

Thanks Darin. Didn't know Zenyatta would be only the 2nd one to win back to back classics.
To bad it wont be back to back horse of the year. I thought she should have won it last year.
Zenyatta wins and shes in the Secretariat level? Cant wait to watch.
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Darin Z.
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« Reply #15 on: November 06, 2010, 01:29:41 AM »

I respectfully disagree on Horse of the Year last year. Rachel Alexandra won the Kentucky Oaks, Preakness, Haskell and Woodward...defeating three year old males twice, and older horses once.  It was the greatest campaign any three year old filly has ever put together.  As far as Zenyatta and Secretariat, its incomparable.  One didnt start until fall of her three year old season, the other didnt race past that point.  Secretariat won from 5 furlongs to 1 1/2 miles. on dirt and turf, and won the Triple Crown.  The way he won the Belmont...it just separates him from everyone else.  To me there's Man O' War, Citation and Secretariat.  I just feel that horses were of a different breed back then. Stronger, more durable, more rugged and tougher animals.  Horses like Secretariat to me trounce anything from the modern era based on that alone.
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Darin Z.
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« Reply #16 on: November 06, 2010, 01:36:14 AM »

Secretariat, Man O War, Citation, Spectacular Bid, Seattle Slew, Affirmed, War Admiral, Kelso, Native Dancer..I just dont know where to place Zenyatta in history...its easier to compare her against fillies and mares.

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NIATROSS
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« Reply #17 on: November 06, 2010, 01:37:55 AM »

Darin,

You may want to say IN YOUR OPINION RA'S 3yo campaign was the greatest any 3yo filly has ever assembled
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Darin Z.
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« Reply #18 on: November 06, 2010, 01:39:54 AM »

Well I feel Ruffian's would have been better had it not been cut short...but can you name a better campaign by a three year old filly?
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NIATROSS
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« Reply #19 on: November 06, 2010, 01:42:01 AM »

ZARAKAVA
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3 wide and wingin
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« Reply #20 on: November 06, 2010, 01:42:55 AM »

Stronger, more durable, more rugged and tougher animals.  Horses like Secretariat to me trounce anything from the modern era based on that alone.

Thats about breeding and drugs both legal and illegal.
There is no doubt the horses from the past were stronger and tougher.
She could be top 5 all time? Rachel Alexander isn't?
Again more asking than saying. I don't follow the sport outside the triple crown and breeders cup.

Also since I was born in 71 and wasn't aware of Secretariat. If Zenyatta wins tomorrow she is the horse of my lifetime? to me she will be if she wins tomorrow. Rachel Alexander isn't. I am ignorant to the importance of the Haskell and Woodard though. Except that they are big time grade 1 races. Ive never seen them.
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Darin Z.
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« Reply #21 on: November 06, 2010, 01:48:16 AM »

I wasn't including European horses.  It's two totally different things to measure.  European turf fillies race against and beat males far more often then American Dirt runners.  Zarkava's campaign was brilliant, but Rachel's was unprecedented.  If you wanna start to rattle off European runners, and go through the All Alongs, Pebbles, Miesque...Goldikova.  I dont compare European horses to American.
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Darin Z.
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« Reply #22 on: November 06, 2010, 01:53:06 AM »

She can't be top 5 to me for what I said earlier about horses of the past vs. horses today.  Secretariat, Man O War, Citation, Spectacular Bid and Ruffian are my top 5.  War Admiral, Kelso, Forego, Buckpaser, Dr. *** probably round out my top 10. Zenyatta goes ahead of Rachel, because Rachel had 8 great months, Zenyatta has had three great years.  But measuring a single year, 2009, a single campaign...Rachel's 2009, to me was unprecedented, unmatched, and better then Zenyatta's.
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3 wide and wingin
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« Reply #23 on: November 06, 2010, 01:58:43 AM »

She can't be top 5 to me for what I said earlier about horses of the past vs. horses today.  Secretariat, Man O War, Citation, Spectacular Bid and Ruffian are my top 5.  War Admiral, Kelso, Forego, Buckpaser, Dr. *** probably round out my top 10. Zenyatta goes ahead of Rachel, because Rachel had 8 great months, Zenyatta has had three great years.  But measuring a single year, 2009, a single campaign...Rachel's 2009, to me was unprecedented, unmatched, and better then Zenyatta's.

A horse like man o war that there is no tape of? Do you look at stats? Like Beyer figures from his races?
I consider Babe Ruth the greatest baseball player ever because of the power of the stats.
How can you put a horse you never saw and there isn't video up so high?
Just asking?
Zenyatta is pretty cool. The dancing and stuff. ESPN has been covering this alot. Its something someone my mom watches. Zenyattas star power is big. Biggest since secreteriat. Bigger than barbaro because barbaro is a tragedy.
Ive enjoyed this discussion. It has me more excited to watch the race.
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NIATROSS
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« Reply #24 on: November 06, 2010, 02:01:48 AM »

Darin,

If you are not comparing all horses that your " RA'S 3yo filly season was the greartest 3yo filly ever assembled " comment cannot be true.
Goldikova was beaten twice by Zarakava yet came here and beat open company in the BC Mile as a 3yo.
I know Euro fillies face males all the time.
I know all about Pebbles Miesque and others as I bet those also.I think if you look closer their 3yos seasons were not better than Zarakava's IMO.
RA'S 3yo campaign was unprecendeted yes,greatest ever NO WAY.

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Darin Z.
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« Reply #25 on: November 06, 2010, 02:02:41 AM »

I don't understand why people that love Rachel have to be anti-Zenyatta and vice versa.  Zenyatta's had the better career, Rachel had the better 2009.  God forbid if you say anything other than praising either filly, someone will thrash you.  Rachel put on weight this winter, didnt shed it, and wasnt the same filly.  Zenyatta is clearly more durable, while Rachel at her best was more brilliant.  By brilliant I mean the way she trounced some fields, including the three year old champ in the Haskell.  The only way I will ever put a horse near Secretariat, it would have to be a triple crown winner, who probably goes undefeated and races at 4, because as I said, if you think Rachel Alexandra, Zenyatta, Invasor or any other horse of the last 10 years at their best is better than Secretariat at his best...I'm sorry, but you will never convince me.  I think I am very fair when it comes to comparing Rachel and Zenyatta.
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Darin Z.
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« Reply #26 on: November 06, 2010, 02:11:32 AM »

Do you know how many fillies have won the Arc in 88 years - 17...Thats almost 20 percent

How many fillies have won the Woodward stakes in 60 years - 1.

How many three year old fillies have won a Grade 1 Dirt Route race against older horses in america in the last century - 1.

Both 1's are Rachel Alexandra.

Rachel Alexandra won the Kentucky Oaks, and the Preakness (A Classic) - 1st ever to do that.

Zarkava never won an English Oaks, Irish Oaks, 2000 Guineas or Epsom Darby. And she only beat boys once, a race that fillies have won 17 times.

To me...Rachel's campaign was better.
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3 wide and wingin
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« Reply #27 on: November 06, 2010, 02:17:47 AM »

I hope you don't mean me bashing. I am not.
Don't know enough to really bash.
Rachel won horse of the year in 2009 so people alot more knowledgeable and smarter than me knew something.

Darin its simple. Zenyatta on the best day of her career vs Rachel on the best day of her career. Both of them the peak 100% best
who do you think wins?

I wont even say who I think because I am not knowledgeable enough.

I am guessing you say Zenyatta though.
Shes a rock star. RA is not. But that's public perception not reality. I am talking how a marginal fan like myself sees things.
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Darin Z.
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« Reply #28 on: November 06, 2010, 02:31:59 AM »

I wasn't referring to you at all 3-Wide...just a general perception.  For example, when Rachel got beat in her first start of 2010, they showed all the people at Santa Anita cheering, and I was distraught. Why? It had nothing to do with oh no Rachel lost.  I knew the second Zardana hit the wire in front of Rachel, there was zero chance of the much talked about Apple Blossom showdown happening, and that Rachel clearly didnt come back the same, and we would probably never see the matchup.  And I am watching this fans at Santa Anita cheering, which to me was so absurd, and quite stupid honestly, because first, whether Rachel won or not that day had nothing to do with Zenyatta, and second they didn't realize or didn't care that the great matchup between them now was done. All they cared about was, this shows Zenyatta is better.  I'm sorry but I would have rooted for both mares to have great campaigns, make it to the BC Classic for an unbelievable showdown, and then may the best mare win.

As far as a race with Rachel vs. Zenyatta in a race, with both at their best it is so hard to say. I break it down like this...

1) Any race on synthetic Zenyatta wins.
2) A conventional dirt race, at 1 1/16th miles or less and Rachel Wins.
3) A conventional dirt race, at 1 1/8th miles, Zenyatta probably Wins, at 1 1/4 miles, she definitely wins.
4) I think Rachel ran two races that Zenyatta couldn't have beaten her, the Kentucky Oaks and the Haskell.
5) Zenyatta ran two races that Rachel couldn't have beaten her, 2008 Distaff, 2009 Classic.

I love both mares, I rooted for both mares to win every race, and I am rooting for Zenyatta tomorrow.
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3 wide and wingin
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« Reply #29 on: November 06, 2010, 02:39:03 AM »

I agree. Its bad for the sport that they will never race. Imagine if Rachel had won all her races and was in the BC classic. We might be on ABC instead of ESPN tomorrow. Would have been such a huge race.
Don't let the fans get you down. They don't know what they are talking about and cheering for most times.
Don't hold it against Zenyatta that the masses are ignorant Smiley
Enjoy the race and I look forward to your Thoth's after the race.
And Ill give you mine from the perspective of a casual fan.
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SandyLoam
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« Reply #30 on: November 06, 2010, 07:36:45 AM »

Darin Z.
Thanks for saving this thread. I agree with you vis a vis Secretariat.
Didn't Man o' War win one of his racers by 100 lengths?
Except for a Triple Crown Belmont, this is one of the most important single races in many years.
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Darin Z.
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« Reply #31 on: November 06, 2010, 08:58:47 AM »

She doesn't have to win.  The base that we will have just to watch this race is a plus.
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mel4600
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« Reply #32 on: November 06, 2010, 09:35:43 AM »

How many fillies have won the Woodward stakes in 60 years - 1.

How many three year old fillies have won a Grade 1 Dirt Route race against older horses in america in the last century - 1.

How many have tried these 2 feats?
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mel4600
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« Reply #33 on: November 06, 2010, 09:44:33 AM »

 The only way I will ever put a horse near Secretariat, it would have to be a triple crown winner, who probably goes undefeated and races at 4, because as I said, if you think Rachel Alexandra, Zenyatta, Invasor or any other horse of the last 10 years at their best is better than Secretariat at his best...I'm sorry, but you will never convince me.  I think I am very fair when it comes to comparing Rachel and Zenyatta.

Secretariat is 1-2 against older horses on the dirt. You put to much stock on one race. In one breath you talk about "campaign" and excuse Secretariat from it when it comes to greatness. A horse that loses to Onion with "no excuses" is not worthy of the term "greatest". You are entitled to your opinion, however, you sure won't convince me. You have a need to make excuses for Rachel when in reality you were just plain wrong about her. You will never be "great" with just Bullsbay and Macho Again on your resume, no matter what the race. The BC classic is another story. Wink
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pamwaggy
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« Reply #34 on: November 06, 2010, 10:05:26 AM »

Nice posts!   Nice way to have a discussion!   I applaud how some of you took this thread and made it one of the best ever about this race/horse.  Not to mention interesting as all get out.
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brianwspencer
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« Reply #35 on: November 06, 2010, 10:10:14 AM »

How many have tried these 2 feats?

Six more than have tried to win a BC Classic on two different surfaces, a fact you like to hang your hat on. Cheesy

So seven (horses, that is, some have tried more than once), if my numbers are correct, is the answer to the first one.

Edited again to add: There is some pretty intense reading here about fillies/mares trying to win these Grade I races, and how some have, but at age 4 mostly. Interesting stuff here: http://filliesfirst.blogspot.com/2009/08/rachel-alexandra-date-with-history.html
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brianwspencer
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« Reply #36 on: November 06, 2010, 10:19:47 AM »

More importantly, to the title of the thread -- if she wins, my tickets will lose for the most part, I'm going to play against her on principle in the toughest test of her career at what is certainly going to be an underlay price based on her real chances.

That said, I'm not going to be particularly upset if she wins (unless I'm sitting on a big pick-4 lol), and it would tell me quite a bit about what she's made of. If she does it, she does it, and it will be good for her fans everywhere and for fans of the game, and I won't be upset about it at all, just strictly from a gambling perspective, I won't be playing her -- but good luck to those rooting for her.

And if yesterday's wagers were any indication, I'm doing her fans a HUGE favor by playing against her...it practically guarantees she will win Smiley
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CLOCKERTERRY
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« Reply #37 on: November 06, 2010, 10:23:50 AM »

If she does win, I'll admit she's a good mare.
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Darin Z.
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« Reply #38 on: November 06, 2010, 10:29:55 AM »

Mel - if you think anything about Secretariat is based on one race, then there's no point in my continuing this discussion.  His body of work through his career speaks for itself.  He beat horses like Sham, Riva Ridge, Forego, Our Native, My Gallant, Kennedy Road.  Oh, and Im pretty sure he got beat by Onion when he was running a 102 fever as well. And who is making any excuses for Rachel Alexandra.  Her three year old year was sensational, this year she was an average stakes mare, bottom line.
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« Reply #39 on: November 06, 2010, 10:30:46 AM »

I would normally bet against her because of the price.  But this time, I might not even bet the race.  In my heart, I cannot bet against her, as Chrissy said.  

But I will be watching and pulling for her.  I want her to win more than any horse I ever watched in any race.
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Darin Z.
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« Reply #40 on: November 06, 2010, 10:42:47 AM »

Here's my final comments - Secretariat at his best, beats anything on four hooves.  Rachel Alexandra's three year old season was the greatest ever by an American three year old filly (Ruffian excluded due to obvious reasons). Zenyatta has had the better career than Rachel due to her longevity and durability.  I think that is more than fair on all counts, and doesn't favor either filly.
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« Reply #41 on: November 06, 2010, 10:45:29 AM »

Here's my final comments - Secretariat at his best, beats anything on four hooves.  Rachel Alexandra's three year old season was the greatest ever by an American three year old filly (Ruffian excluded due to obvious reasons). Zenyatta has had the better career than Rachel due to her longevity and durability.  I think that is more than fair on all counts, and doesn't favor either filly.

Agree on all counts, 100%.
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« Reply #42 on: November 06, 2010, 10:55:19 AM »

Mel - if you think anything about Secretariat is based on one race, then there's no point in my continuing this discussion.  His body of work through his career speaks for itself.  He beat horses like Sham, Riva Ridge, Forego, Our Native, My Gallant, Kennedy Road.  Oh, and Im pretty sure he got beat by Onion when he was running a 102 fever as well. And who is making any excuses for Rachel Alexandra.  Her three year old year was sensational, this year she was an average stakes mare, bottom line.

Well then, you took 3 races and call it a "body of work". Lets talk about the 4 he lost (I'm not counting the DQ), did he have a fever for all of them? How come he failed to impress against older on the dirt? Forgo was nowhere near the horse he became after his 3 year old career. If you can't beat quality older horses you can't be the greatest. If you can't understand that then its a mute point.   
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mel4600
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« Reply #43 on: November 06, 2010, 10:57:42 AM »

Here's my final comments - Secretariat at his best, beats anything on four hooves.  Rachel Alexandra's three year old season was the greatest ever by an American three year old filly (Ruffian excluded due to obvious reasons). Zenyatta has had the better career than Rachel due to her longevity and durability.  I think that is more than fair on all counts, and doesn't favor either filly.

I respect you opinion and disagree with it on all counts. One race means nothing, especially 1 1/2 miles on the dirt. As far as Zenyatta goes, watch her today.  Wink
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Darin Z.
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« Reply #44 on: November 06, 2010, 11:02:28 AM »

Here's why you don't know what you are talking about Mel. He beat older horses three times. In the Marlboro Cup, he beat Riva Ridge and Cougar II, and in the Man O' War and Canadian International he beat the best older turf horses as well.  So how did not beat older horses? I mean can someone please chime in and explain to me how I have to defend Secretariat???  Just because he ONLY won 16 of 21 races?? His debut he was mugged at the start and made up 8 lengths in the stretch everyone saw it. In the Wood Memorial, he had an abscess in his mouth, and in the Whitney, he had a fever.  Not too mention he ran the fastest Derby, Preakness (the DRF time is correct) and Belmont ever run, and three weeks after winning the Belmont, and concluding the triple crown, he ran again at Arlington and won by 9!  Come on Mel.
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CLOCKERTERRY
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« Reply #45 on: November 06, 2010, 11:05:32 AM »

You are letting yourself get sucked into Mel's meaningless and never ending argument, Darin.
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Darin Z.
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« Reply #46 on: November 06, 2010, 11:05:58 AM »

One race at 1 1/2 miles??? he won from 5 Furlongs up to 1 1/2 mile! On turf and on dirt! Any of those horses from the 70's...Seattle Slew, Spectacular Bid, Affirmed and Alydar, Ruffian, let alone Secretariat, they all go before Zenyatta.  The breed now is completely different. They are less durable, they are bred for speed not stamina.  Nothing from the last 20 years stacks up against the horses I mentioned.
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Darin Z.
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« Reply #47 on: November 06, 2010, 11:09:24 AM »

You're right clocker...enough of this, its Breeders Cup time!
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« Reply #48 on: November 06, 2010, 11:23:40 AM »

One race at 1 1/2 miles??? he won from 5 Furlongs up to 1 1/2 mile! On turf and on dirt! Any of those horses from the 70's...Seattle Slew, Spectacular Bid, Affirmed and Alydar, Ruffian, let alone Secretariat, they all go before Zenyatta.  The breed now is completely different. They are less durable, they are bred for speed not stamina.  Nothing from the last 20 years stacks up against the horses I mentioned.

That's your opinion and you are entitled to it. All the horses you mentioned I had placed higher than Secretariat also. We just differ on who should be rated higher. In any event, we will see what the real experts have to say after the race.
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MVT
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« Reply #49 on: November 06, 2010, 01:03:52 PM »

Im betting 5,500 to win on Z. crossedfingers
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mel4600
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« Reply #50 on: November 06, 2010, 01:17:32 PM »

Here's why you don't know what you are talking about Mel. He beat older horses three times. In the Marlboro Cup, he beat Riva Ridge and Cougar II, and in the Man O' War and Canadian International he beat the best older turf horses as well.  So how did not beat older horses? I mean can someone please chime in and explain to me how I have to defend Secretariat???

Darrin, never once did I get personal with you, I stayed on the subject matter. No go back and carefully read my post and read your responce so that you can see for yourself how foolish you look. As a side note, I forgot more than you know about this sport. He only ran 3 races on the dirt and lost 2 of them.  Wink
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mel4600
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« Reply #51 on: November 06, 2010, 01:18:09 PM »

Im betting 5,500 to win on Z. crossedfingers

 thumbs up
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3 wide and wingin
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« Reply #52 on: November 06, 2010, 01:50:12 PM »

Im betting 5,500 to win on Z. crossedfingers

I had a friend do similar on big Brown at the Belmont (but he bet 75% to show). Not a rich guy. Lives on a teachers salary. Was he depressed? Sat there all day trying to catch up at any track and losing more. I fed him about 5 free beers all night though. I felt bad for him and wont forget it. If you bet it be prepared to lose it even if its a sure thing.

Cant wait for this race.  thumbs up
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Round Table
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And then I saw her, coming out of the sun.




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« Reply #53 on: November 06, 2010, 05:53:04 PM »

Im betting 5,500 to win on Z. crossedfingers

Who are you and  why ar u here ?
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They ought to return to Tampa and fix the mistake they made.
CLOCKERTERRY
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« Reply #54 on: November 06, 2010, 05:54:19 PM »

Who are you and  why ar u here ?

Someone who is $5500 poorer, at any rate.
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« Reply #55 on: November 06, 2010, 06:00:19 PM »

I knew she would flop. And I'm richer for it.
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MVT
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« Reply #56 on: November 06, 2010, 06:05:00 PM »

I knew she would flop. And I'm richer for it.

Coming from 20 lengths back, weeving through traffic, and losing by a nose is a "flop"? screwy
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« Reply #57 on: November 06, 2010, 06:06:09 PM »

Coming from 20 lengths back, weeving through traffic, and losing by a nose is a "flop"? screwy

2:02 4/5. Pig.  beer
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