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Author Topic: Classic now Gio's preferred target  (Read 2200 times)
Bob B
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« Reply #50 on: October 28, 2010, 07:45:36 PM »

He should be in the Mile. Not sure a Classic that's shaping up to be this tough is the time to find out if you have a dirt horse when you've got a horse who has made nearly $5M running on turf and synthetics. Have a feeling he'll be nowhere to be found in the Classic on dirt, but would rate a fighting chance in the Mile, which might be the perfect distance for him.

Perhaps a play to increase breeding value.  He's already accomplished a lot on grass and he's finished 2nd to Zenyatta on synthetic.  I don't think a BC Mile win would increase his stallion value a great deal, but a BC Classic win on dirt would do wonders.  Sort of a Coolmore approach of having their turf stars try the main track and stand them at Ashford.  Just one guess along with the Mile being far from a walkover.
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brianwspencer
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« Reply #51 on: October 28, 2010, 08:02:29 PM »

Perhaps a play to increase breeding value.  He's already accomplished a lot on grass and he's finished 2nd to Zenyatta on synthetic.  I don't think a BC Mile win would increase his stallion value a great deal, but a BC Classic win on dirt would do wonders.  Sort of a Coolmore approach of having their turf stars try the main track and stand them at Ashford.  Just one guess along with the Mile being far from a walkover.

Right, I get that, and totally understand the appeal...and being by Tale of the Cat, there's a chance he'll dirt just fine. It just strikes me as an awfully tough place to try to find out. Especially because based on his pedigree, there's at least hope that if you breed to him and your horse doesn't turf, that based on the bloodlines, they may *still* dirt.

But if he goes out and bombs, or finishes a wheel-spinning 7th and removes all doubt, then you get a much better feel for it.

See both sides, just think that with his kick, he could've been a big force in the Mile, and I'd be surprised if he hits the Super in the Classic.
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Mick
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« Reply #52 on: October 28, 2010, 08:52:35 PM »

mel

You are making my point about Secretariat here.  This poll shows Zenyatta is tied for tenth place this year.  How can you say she is better than Secretariat when there are 8 horses better than her?  I didn't post this drivel, you did.
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« Reply #53 on: October 28, 2010, 09:27:14 PM »

What the heck has what you just wrote have to do with me?  Please show me when and where I ever said she's a bad investment. 

It has nothing to do with anything, or anything anyone ever said. No one has EVER dissed (or maybe even discussed) the "investment" aspect of Zenyatta. Just another one of OTB's never-ending stream of phony straw men he constantly sets up and shoots down like he's making big points against anyone but himself.
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ChitownSteve75
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« Reply #54 on: October 28, 2010, 09:55:27 PM »

mel

You are making my point about Secretariat here.  This poll shows Zenyatta is tied for tenth place this year.  How can you say she is better than Secretariat when there are 8 horses better than her?  I didn't post this drivel, you did.

Mick, I have news for ya, Big Red wouldn't even be #1 on that list. The boys over the big pond don't have much respect for the US. They prefer Grass horses. Also, where do you think Zenyatta will be ranked if she wins next week?
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ZENYATTA THE GREAT! NOT RA!
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« Reply #55 on: October 28, 2010, 09:57:54 PM »

Mick, I have news for ya, Big Red wouldn't even be #1 on that list. The boys over the big pond don't have much respect for the US. They prefer Grass horses. Also, where do you think Zenyatta will be ranked if she wins next week?

I think she would be rated somewhat higher if she had run in any meaningful races and face any meaningful opponents this year. She's lucky to be #10 based on what she's faced so far.
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mel4600
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« Reply #56 on: October 28, 2010, 10:14:42 PM »

mel

You are making my point about Secretariat here.  This poll shows Zenyatta is tied for tenth place this year.  How can you say she is better than Secretariat when there are 8 horses better than her?  I didn't post this drivel, you did.

Mick,

You're a funny guy! How am I making your point? In case you don't know how this works, it is a ranking for strength of wins and performance this year only. Secretariat lost to the Angle Light, Sham, Onion, & Prove Out in 1973, the year of his triple crown. He would not have been in the top ten in this ranking either for that year, and either is Goldikova. Two of the horses ahead of Zenyatta she already beat and after she wins the Classic she will finish the year either 1 or 2. I'll be glad to teach you plenty about horse racing, just ask! Now, do you think Zenyatta is going to win or lose?
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ChitownSteve75
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« Reply #57 on: October 28, 2010, 11:35:08 PM »

I think she would be rated somewhat higher if she had run in any meaningful races and face any meaningful opponents this year. She's lucky to be #10 based on what she's faced so far.

St. Trinians, Switch, and Zardana (who beat RA) aren't bad mares at all. As a matter of fact, St. Trinians is ranked as the #3 older mare in the country behind Zenyatta & Rachel. Zenyatta is now running in the Classic, nuff said!
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« Reply #58 on: October 28, 2010, 11:50:13 PM »

St. Trinians, Switch, and Zardana (who beat RA) aren't bad mares at all. As a matter of fact, St. Trinians is ranked as the #3 older mare in the country behind Zenyatta & Rachel. Zenyatta is now running in the Classic, nuff said!

St. Trinian's: G2 mare only; blasted by G1 males
Zardana: not entirely sure, but I think only G2, and has stunk out the joint most of the year
Switch: also G2

These are not world-beaters. In fact, they are not even world class. That's why Z is rated so low. She has faced garbage all year long, no matter how you try and puff up their resumes.

And by the way, simply stating that they lost (barely) to Z, who is now going to the BC Classic, does not elevate their standing. They are still a mediocre bunch, at best. doh
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Mick
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« Reply #59 on: October 29, 2010, 04:22:18 AM »

Mick, I have news for ya, Big Red wouldn't even be #1 on that list. The boys over the big pond don't have much respect for the US. They prefer Grass horses. Also, where do you think Zenyatta will be ranked if she wins next week?
Steve - I kind of knew there was a bit Eurotrash bias in the poll, that was why I called it drivel. 

I am not sure where Zenyatta will be if she wins next week.   Given the Euro bias, she may move up to fifth but unless history proves me incorrect, there will be a few European horses winning BC races who will they will favor. 
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« Reply #60 on: October 29, 2010, 04:30:17 AM »

Mick,
 Now, do you think Zenyatta is going to win or lose?
I haven't handicapped the race and I never ever take wagering hard earned money lightly so I cannot say.  As a fan, I hope she comes out of the turn last, winds around the outside and blows past the others and romps home a winner. 

It's not so easy a thing to do, because what if the pace is slow, what if Borel (or some other jockey imitating him) catches a perfect rail trip and saves 6 lengths on Zen, what if the track comes up muddy or sloppy?   I know I am making your point that it takes a certain amount of greatness to overcome all the different  odd things that can make a horse (especially a stretch horse) lose.  I will not argue that she is the greatest mare of my lifetime.  Just don't tell me she would regularly beat Secretariat. 
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« Reply #61 on: October 29, 2010, 06:44:55 AM »

It has nothing to do with anything, or anything anyone ever said. No one has EVER dissed (or maybe even discussed) the "investment" aspect of Zenyatta. Just another one of OTB's never-ending stream of phony straw men he constantly sets up and shoots down like he's making big points against anyone but himself.


This coming from a man who never answers a question and only stirs shit.  The same man who INSISTED Gloria de Campeao was a female and the same man who when asked if the horse should come first did not say yes.

A real human being this guy.
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mel4600
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« Reply #62 on: October 29, 2010, 08:13:30 AM »

St. Trinians, Switch, and Zardana (who beat RA) aren't bad mares at all. As a matter of fact, St. Trinians is ranked as the #3 older mare in the country behind Zenyatta & Rachel. Zenyatta is now running in the Classic, nuff said!

What Clocker doesn't understand is Zenyatta ran in all Grade 1 races. If any female in the world wanted to beat the beat they had several opportunities. As far as running against the males, what better venue than the BC classic. Any dirt male in the world (if they qualify) who their connects think can beat her, is welcome to run. All Grade 1's and running in the Classic on real "dirt" says it all. She ain't dodging anyone! trophy
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ChitownSteve75
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« Reply #63 on: October 29, 2010, 09:40:46 AM »

It's really weird and really pathetic to have Clockerferry suggest that the Hollywood Gold Cup is somehow a tougher race than the Breeders Cup Classic! LMAO! Hey Terry, How many females have won the Classic? How many have run in the race twice and have a shot at a repeat? How many mares have won 2 Breeder Cup races? You're a joke! Pathetic little warped frustrated old dirty ***!
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pamwaggy
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« Reply #64 on: October 29, 2010, 03:14:01 PM »

I haven't handicapped the race and I never ever take wagering hard earned money lightly so I cannot say.  As a fan, I hope she comes out of the turn last, winds around the outside and blows past the others and romps home a winner. 

It's not so easy a thing to do, because what if the pace is slow, what if Borel (or some other jockey imitating him) catches a perfect rail trip and saves 6 lengths on Zen, what if the track comes up muddy or sloppy?   I know I am making your point that it takes a certain amount of greatness to overcome all the different  odd things that can make a horse (especially a stretch horse) lose.  I will not argue that she is the greatest mare of my lifetime.  Just don't tell me she would regularly beat Secretariat. 

Great post Mick!
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« Reply #65 on: October 29, 2010, 04:11:30 PM »

It's really weird and really pathetic to have Clockerferry suggest that the Hollywood Gold Cup is somehow a tougher race than the Breeders Cup Classic!

Good for us all I didn't suggest that, then. What I have said (and the writer was saying) about the Hollywood Gold Cup, or the Pac Classic, or the Big Cap, or any of the many OPEN races Z's conenctions have chickened out of over the years is that these are tougher, more prestigious, and bigger money races than Z's connections have been hiding her in. A really good horse would be running in those, not hiding in generic bum-of-the-week races restricted to F&M.

Quote
LMAO! Hey Terry, How many females have won the Classic?

So, she has one (1) race to her credit that any number of females over the years do not have. Big deal. She got lucky in one (1) race, and this is supposed to make her the best horse ever?

Quote
You're a joke! Pathetic little warped frustrated old dirty ***!

No, you're the joke.
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« Reply #66 on: October 30, 2010, 05:13:54 PM »

St. Trinians, Switch, and Zardana (who beat RA) aren't bad mares at all. As a matter of fact, St. Trinians is ranked as the #3 older mare in the country behind Zenyatta & Rachel. Zenyatta is now running in the Classic, nuff said!

I was curious where you got that St. Trinian's was rated #3. Well, it isn't the DRF, as it turns out. She's only #5 in that. (Which, when you think about a G2-only winner being #5 in the land says an awful lot about the pitiful quality of the older mares division this year, actually.)

There's another interesting ranking in the DRF: Guess who is the #13 money winning horse in the country right now. Hint: The horse's name begins with Z. That's right, #13 for the "defending BC Classic champ", the "best horse in the world". Another indicator of just how much they have been hiding her in backwater, meaningless races.  
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alydar66
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« Reply #67 on: November 01, 2010, 03:53:58 PM »

Gio back to running in the Turf Mile.
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« Reply #68 on: November 01, 2010, 05:29:11 PM »

Gio back to running in the Turf Mile.

That's sure shaping up as the headliner race of the day.
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sporthorse
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« Reply #69 on: November 01, 2010, 06:38:19 PM »

                                                      horse
Glad to see this is where they are heading with him. I think he will do his best bidding on the turf.
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