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Author Topic: Sore Feet  (Read 24607 times)
FINEPOINT
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« on: October 17, 2010, 05:36:03 AM »

I read a recent article in HoofBeats about a trainer who treated a horse with severe sore feet!  He packed the feet with baby diapers???  How can baby diapers help sore feet? 
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BabyFireFly
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« Reply #1 on: October 17, 2010, 09:59:14 AM »

I've used them for horses that have had abscesses pop through the bottom of their soles. Call it the cheap version of Animalintex....

Keeps medications in place and moisture at bay...absorbent and good for padding.
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« Reply #2 on: October 17, 2010, 02:23:47 PM »

I've used them for horses that have had abscesses pop through the bottom of their soles. Call it the cheap version of Animalintex....

Keeps medications in place and moisture at bay...absorbent and good for padding.
lThankyou Baby Fire Fly
Any paticular brand you have found works better than the other???
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« Reply #3 on: October 17, 2010, 08:26:20 PM »

I read a recent article in HoofBeats about a trainer who treated a horse with severe sore feet!  He packed the feet with baby diapers???  How can baby diapers help sore feet?  

  I doubt he used the diapers as packing.  He used them to hold whatever he packed them with, in place.  
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BabyFireFly
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« Reply #4 on: October 18, 2010, 06:19:44 AM »

lThankyou Baby Fire Fly
Any paticular brand you have found works better than the other???

Haha....well I use what I have in the house for my little one - Huggies Natural Care - organic cotton with Aloe and Vitamin E.

It sounds funny but they really are a good thing to have on hand in an emergency too...for instance if you have a bleeding wound that needs a pressure bandage, just cover with the diaper and wrap with vetrap - you can fasten them in place and then wrap, doing away with the whole one handed thing.

I call the baby section at the drug store the "horse aisle" because almost everything there is used in the barn too - diapers, wipes, baby oil, tear-free shampoo (for face washing), powder, butt paste and jarred baby carrots and apples (good for mixing with yucky tasting medicine).
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« Reply #5 on: October 18, 2010, 06:13:02 PM »

A 50 50 mix of DMSO and Turpentine soaked in the diaper, stuffed in the sole and wrapped with a vet wrap the day before the race if I remmember that grooms tip from a couple of years ago.
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« Reply #6 on: October 18, 2010, 07:59:47 PM »

Thanks Samstar I am having a few problems with my trotters feet.
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BabyFireFly
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« Reply #7 on: October 19, 2010, 06:40:14 AM »

A 50 50 mix of DMSO and Turpentine soaked in the diaper, stuffed in the sole and wrapped with a vet wrap the day before the race if I remmember that grooms tip from a couple of years ago.

This is an great mixture - I would change the ratio to more like 20% DMSO (Liquid -not gel) and 80% VT (warmed). Paint it on the soles and up over the nail holes (not too high though, dont get it on the coronary band) everyday. Plain rubbing alcohol will get it off if you happen to get it on yourself or on parts of the hoof that you don't want to paint. WEAR GLOVES....DMSO breath is bad enough, but DMSO/VT breath would kill a cat! I have found this to help with horses who have quarter cracks as well (once you go through the initial soaking / drawing to get any infection out.) It stops further infections from occurring and toughens the area.

The retirees and the riding horses that go barefoot get on well with just their regular trims and a quick paint of this mixture (daily for a week once shoes are pulled and then backed off to 1-2 times per week after that). I keep the tins of VT in the barn office so they stay warm and liquidy.

Great tip, Samstar!
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« Reply #8 on: October 19, 2010, 04:06:38 PM »

  By VT you mean Venice/Turpentine?  Hmmm, I'm a big believer in barefoot hoof care. Always looking for a quicker way to toughen the feet up. Of course it would have to be DMSO mixed with it...  DMSO makes me ill.  Anyway, maybe straight turpentine, heated up and painted on the soles?

  BTW  Reducine, Venice/Turpentine, and icthammol heated up together makes a great draw, disinfectant, and toughener combo. DMSO supposed to be added to that, too, but I've had good results leaving it out.  Would probably work better in, though.

  Another great draw: 50 - 50 hot water and apple cider vinegar soak.

Oh yeah MAJOR WARNING!!!  The above concoctions can be extremely volatile. I've had the saucepan ignite without warning.  DO NOT LEAVE THE MIXTURE UNATTENDED WHILE HEATING!!!  MAKE SURE YOU KEEP HANDY A LID OR SOMETHING TO SMOTHER THE FLAMES JUST IN CASE!
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BabyFireFly
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« Reply #9 on: October 19, 2010, 07:22:41 PM »

OGM:

You can use the Venice Tupentine straight without the DMSO, my mom does that in the winter with her barefoot horses since she is terrified of DMSO....

I'm not brave enough to actually heat stuff like that up in a saucepan - though a double boiler over an electric range might be safe (as long as you don't breathe in the fumes.) I try to keep all that stuff in the heated office so it stays in it's liquid form...but since things like Pine Tar and Reducine are so thick and DMSO freezes at 60 degrees, I will sit them in a tub of boiling water for 15 minutes to heat them up.

Another thing I like to do is make a poultice of Epsom Salts and DMSO gel to pack in the hooves...also I have used this mixture on horses with "hard stocked" hind legs and it breaks up the inflammation and sucks them back down.
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« Reply #10 on: October 19, 2010, 08:59:36 PM »

You no you guys are just the best I wish I could meet all of you Thanks so much we got to do something with this fine boy he has so much heart. bowing
Hey he looks like a dang Arab I no Baby Fly when I said that I ducked cause I no how you feel about them.
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« Reply #11 on: October 20, 2010, 08:17:57 AM »

OGM:

You can use the Venice Tupentine straight without the DMSO, my mom does that in the winter with her barefoot horses since she is terrified of DMSO....

I'm not brave enough to actually heat stuff like that up in a saucepan - though a double boiler over an electric range might be safe (as long as you don't breathe in the fumes.) I try to keep all that stuff in the heated office so it stays in it's liquid form...but since things like Pine Tar and Reducine are so thick and DMSO freezes at 60 degrees, I will sit them in a tub of boiling water for 15 minutes to heat them up.

Another thing I like to do is make a poultice of Epsom Salts and DMSO gel to pack in the hooves...also I have used this mixture on horses with "hard stocked" hind legs and it breaks up the inflammation and sucks them back down.

  A heated office.... what a luxury...
  When the trainer I worked for first had me mix it up, he had me using an electric hot plate and saucepan. I don't do it that way anymore, lol.  I use a tiki torch container with the flame and a small saucepan. I take it outside away from the barn and sit there holding the saucepan over the flame constantly stirring.  That reducine/icthammol/VT mixture has to be near to boiling.  By the time I douse the flame and get back to the barn, it's cooled just enough to be at it's best.
  So you just mix Epsom salts and Dmso?  That's it?  No added to regular poultice?  And you weren't afraid of that blowing up?  lol
 
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« Reply #12 on: October 20, 2010, 06:57:07 PM »

The mixture that I recommended was  a 50 50 mixture of DMSO and gum turpentine.  This results in a liquid mixture rather then a sticky gum like mixture .  This is where the diaper comes in.  You saturate the diaper and vet wrap it around the foot.  I am sure that VT is just as effective except that I use a lot of cushion heel pads and thus  I like o be able to pour what I use on the foot.
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« Reply #13 on: October 20, 2010, 09:14:12 PM »

                                                             horse
Baby diapers are wonderful for applying medicnes to the sole of a horses foot. I use a mixture of Epsom salts, DMSO and evaported milk. Works wonders for sore feet and great for "hot nails"!
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mo doc n
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« Reply #14 on: December 05, 2010, 06:53:23 PM »

I know it's probably late in the year and cold but stand him in peat moss (in stall)

Helps the feet immensely
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« Reply #15 on: December 05, 2010, 07:15:06 PM »

Peat moss is great stuff but it sure has gotten expensive. I guess that they are starting to call DMSO so check with your vet how much you can use and when.
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« Reply #16 on: December 05, 2010, 07:53:26 PM »

Peat moss is great stuff but it sure has gotten expensive. I guess that they are starting to call DMSO so check with your vet how much you can use and when.

Are we talking about the same stuff?
what you use in your garden?

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« Reply #17 on: December 06, 2010, 06:53:39 PM »

Are we talking about the same stuff?
what you use in your garden?

Same stuff.  Makes great bedding and is great for the horses feet.  Used to be able to buy it for $3.00 a bail.. Now it is about $8.00 a bale. 
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mo doc n
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« Reply #18 on: December 07, 2010, 10:04:16 PM »

So DMSO and Peat Moss are the same?
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« Reply #19 on: December 08, 2010, 07:37:51 AM »

  Yes Mo doc they are the same thing.  Next Spring mulch your garden with DMSO.  You'll be amazed at the results.
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« Reply #20 on: December 08, 2010, 07:43:09 AM »

  Taken from the article about Zilpaterol on the USTA webpage:

  the RCI Board adopted a recommendation from the Racing Medication and Testing Consortium to reclassify Dimethyl Sulfoxide (DMSO) as a Class 4 substance with a recommended plasma threshold of 10 micrograms/ml, which would allow for its use as a topical leg paint but would not allow for the oral or intravenous administration of the drug.

  And about that article: is Zilpaterol what the boys and girls have been using?
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« Reply #21 on: December 12, 2010, 01:29:55 PM »

  Taken from the article about Zilpaterol on the USTA webpage:

  the RCI Board adopted a recommendation from the Racing Medication and Testing Consortium to reclassify Dimethyl Sulfoxide (DMSO) as a Class 4 substance with a recommended plasma threshold of 10 micrograms/ml, which would allow for its use as a topical leg paint but would not allow for the oral or intravenous administration of the drug.

  And about that article: is Zilpaterol what the boys and girls have been using?

Not being a beef farmer, I had no idea what this drug even was so I looked it up and found some scary studies that have been conducted on horses fed doses of this cattle feed additive. I'm not sure what the motive is for using it since it has both steriod-like properties as well as being related to the clenbuterol family of medicines...I guess either one or a combo of both would make some people think it was a good idea. But something that raises the horse's heart rate 400%+ over baseline within 40 minutes of being fed is not something for dumb dumbs to be playing with. This is also a drug that initially spikes RBC counts but them within 4 days after dosing can send them back down well below normal levels.

When you think about it, how easy is it to just feed a handful of grain with this stuff mixed in just before going into the paddock? No needles, no tubes....a gas man's paradise. Maybe this also explains 6 racehorse deaths at one track this year alone from "heart attacks"....

From the Intervet site: "Do not allow horses or other equines access to feed containing Zilpaterol Hydrochloride. Not for use in animals intended for breeding. Do not use in veal calves."

Whenever I read about a new drug that is being used on racehorses I can't help but think about the ones that go through the auctions and end up on trucks heading to Canada or Mexico to be slaughtered for human consumption. Think about all the withholding times required on beef and other livestock that is raised for this purpose - then think about all the horses that are feed all these mystery concoctions and then end up on someones plate. YUM-E.

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« Reply #22 on: December 14, 2010, 08:42:23 PM »

  Yes Mo doc they are the same thing.  Next Spring mulch your garden with DMSO.  You'll be amazed at the results.

your just messin' with me now poor baby
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« Reply #23 on: December 16, 2010, 12:15:22 PM »

  Moi? sneaky
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« Reply #24 on: January 30, 2011, 08:29:55 PM »

  We used Tuttles/epsom salts in tub, and vt after, combined with either rim or full pad depending on surface. (Old school?) silicone injection under pad not unheard of either.......
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« Reply #25 on: February 24, 2011, 01:53:43 PM »

It has taken quite a bit to get this poor horse of mine over his feet we are starting back to race now Thank you one and all.
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« Reply #26 on: March 07, 2011, 05:20:58 PM »

Hey fuzzy there's a product out called magic cushion best product ever for feet put it in every racehorses feet day before race works Winders
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« Reply #27 on: March 07, 2011, 06:32:40 PM »

The first thing i would do if i were you is find out why he has Sore Feet before i go doing all of this stuff for know reason because if it is a coffin joint none of this will do any good. BUT if he has a abcess or a gravel some of this may work but not all number 1 if i remember right DMSO may and can come up positive on a state test so if that is the case ax the dmso. What i would do if i were you is ask your vet and see where the trouble is first

If it is just basic foot trouble i would poultice his feet with  a nice poultice after you tube his feet for no less then 1 hour. tube them with epsonsalt and hot water to what he can stand. hot water is the key to tubing a horses feet not warm but HOT water. and if he races for any kind of money that means the first thing i would do is block his feet before he races the block will last for around 3 weeks so that is 3 good races out of him before you have to do it again sometimes all you have to do is block them once and they come good after you work on him. if you do not wish to block his feet you can do some thing that has worked for around 40 years and wow does it work right before you go into the paddock take a box of mothballs melt them down to liquid and then wrap a towel around his coronary band so none of the liquid goes into his heels and poor the liquid in the bottom of his foot ONLY make sure you cover the hole sole of the foot till it glazes over then go racing good luck let me know how much he paid

Your friend BLS

and remember if your horse is broke i can fix him just ask any time you wish horsemen helping horsemen is what its about
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« Reply #28 on: April 07, 2011, 01:25:10 PM »

  Tubbing followed by packing feet with cotton soaked in ether/iodine solution done up with vetwrap. Alternate days with poultice pack.  Guaranteed results used on several top trotters in the past......
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« Reply #29 on: April 07, 2011, 01:49:53 PM »

  Tubbing followed by packing feet with cotton soaked in ether/iodine solution done up with vetwrap. Alternate days with poultice pack.  Guaranteed results used on several top trotters in the past......
Thanks buggy boy.
I also found the epsom salt in the green stuff with cotton another good poultice so my groom says I just took it to him and said check it out.
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« Reply #30 on: April 07, 2011, 02:00:29 PM »

Thanks buggy boy.
I also found the epsom salt in the green stuff with cotton another good poultice so my groom says I just took it to him and said check it out.

  Please let me know how this goes.  This treatment is effective so long as we have gotten the shoeing aspect all straightened out, of course.  Blacksmiths of second rate quality can quick a horse easily, and only growth (stimulated with Reducine on coronets...)can fix that.....
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« Reply #31 on: April 07, 2011, 03:07:22 PM »

Hey fuzzy there's a product out called magic cushion best product ever for feet put it in every racehorses feet day before race works Winders
I agree it works very well the best trotter at Calexpo uses this all the time and he doesnt belong to me. But the owner is a big believer in it and the shoer would get so mad cause he said it was so hard to get off the hooves and shoe the horse.
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« Reply #32 on: May 19, 2011, 09:08:36 PM »

I read a recent article in HoofBeats about a trainer who treated a horse with severe sore feet!  He packed the feet with baby diapers???  How can baby diapers help sore feet? 
If the horse is any count and you want to race every week the only thing to do is in ject and tube pulitce and repet
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« Reply #33 on: July 28, 2011, 08:52:12 PM »

what about a horse with seedie toes, what would be the best treatment to prevent the feet from getting worse?
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« Reply #34 on: July 29, 2011, 08:47:07 AM »

what about a horse with seedie toes, what would be the best treatment to prevent the feet from getting worse?

The short answer to that would be to treat the cause and not the symptom.

You’d have to classify as to what degree the hoof is infected, which basically could be divided into two categories. Seedy toe brought on by an injury where the infection is confined to the damaged area would be an acute case - immediate, diligent treatment by a skilled farrier along with consistent aftercare to clear up the infection usually solves the problem. However, when significant wall separation comes into play, it’s more of a chronic issue and puts you in a whole other ball field. Has the horse had a resection? That’s the main question - and if not, should he?

I think the bottom line issues to keep in mind when dealing with ST or WLD with wall separation are 1.) A highly skilled farrier who understands the necessity of having a horse land properly while in motion, rather than finding the perfect balance when the horse is standing square on a flat surface. 2.) The horse’s environment - rapid fungi growth that comes with warm, moist conditions usually effects hooves, skin and lungs - which is also why we see so many horses come up with “summer sickness” - constant respiratory infections, skin conditions, etc. 3.) Diet - something that a lot of people do not think about, but is a major factor.

Anyway, I would find out exactly what the degree of separation is, and whether or not there is any rotation. Hooves with a large degree of separation are usually going to need resection. A horse that is not shod properly or does not receive regular trims every 4-6 weeks, that is allowed to constantly land incorrectly could have quite a bit. Heel first landings allow the frog to do it’s job, otherwise the coffin bone is continually driven lower into the capsule. Avoid trimming the frog and shorten up those toes.

Stamping out any known metabolic issues and preventing them to begin with are important. Really look at what you are feeding and make sure that you are not slowly poisoning your horse - I see it all the time, the “more is better” theory that defies all common horse sense. Equally important is the environment in which the horse lives. You don’t want a horse with this condition standing out in the morning dew, or hanging out in a moist stall all day….and the practice of washing and greasing day in and day out aren’t going to help.

Really those three things all need to be kept in mind, if you don’t pay attention to one, you might as well ignore them all. There are products on the market that are very good at treating the symptoms, and in many cases they are useful….things like White Lightening (my favorite) and Clean Trax - both products do not destroy live tissues, so they do not create more food for the enemy.
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« Reply #35 on: July 29, 2011, 11:05:30 AM »

  My old riding mare was plagued with seedy toe.  After a couple years of various treatments including my racehorse farrier's help with bar shoes, etc. I finally gave up and figured it was something I could keep from getting worse but never cure.  Went back to barefoot.
  A parade was coming up and she's a jigger/dancer.  I started riding her up and down the paved road so she'ld get used to the surface and hopefully not get stupid during the parade.  Lo and behold after a week I started noticing a difference in her feet.  Long story short.. I continued to incorporate some road time during my rides and the hoof eventually grew out. Never had a problem since.
  Whatever the pavement does, it hardens and toughens the hoof up.  I try to time my shoeings now so I can get as many days as possible in between races barefoot, and I bring the horse home and pony or handwalk on the pavement. Barron came back with hoof rebuilder on all 4 hooves a year ago.  Hooves are great now.
Following pictures are from August 2010.  I'll try to get a current one to compare what they look like now.
This is right after the shoes were pulled when he first came back from Jersey.
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« Reply #36 on: July 29, 2011, 11:06:52 AM »

2 weeks later after being properly trimmed and going barefoot... lungeing on grass, handwalking 20 minutes a day up and down the paved road.



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« Reply #37 on: July 29, 2011, 11:08:15 AM »

Sole after the initial trim.  All the rotten excess crap was pared away but the sole is still too soft and rotten.
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« Reply #38 on: July 29, 2011, 11:09:08 AM »

Sole 2 weeks later.  Hard and tough.

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« Reply #39 on: July 29, 2011, 11:22:42 AM »

  That's only 2 weeks.. imagine the rehab if you had longer to work.  In the last picture you can see the beginnings of the callous around the toe.  Horses (riding horses) that I've had the luxury of time with have actually developed a callous that is almost like a shoe around the whole rim.
  It's my opinion the hoof rebuilder is the worst thing you can put on a horse's hoof.  What with daily baths there's too much moisture getting on the hooves and the rebuilder traps it.  What do you find under that stuff when it falls off or gets taken off?  Rotten hoof.  However; I understand the necessity for the "quick fix" on racehorses and the blacksmiths crying they "have nothing to nail into!" so.....
   It's also my opinion that hoof grease is WAAYYYY overused and the reason the hoof walls fall apart in the first place, necessitating hoof rebuilder..... at what? $300 a pop?  And who exactly is telling you to grease the feet so they're not so hard?  hmmmm?
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« Reply #40 on: July 29, 2011, 11:39:10 AM »

  Regarding BFF's comment "allowing the frog to do its job"...  one of the frog's main functions is to act as a circulatory pump as it expands and contracts when coming into contact with the ground.  Something it is not allowed to do when there are shoes nailed on the feet. 
   Again my big beef:  why we can't have track surfaces with more of a cushion ala Europe/Scandinavia so we too could have the option of racing barefoot.  What is this freakin obsession with the teletimer?
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« Reply #41 on: July 29, 2011, 11:50:24 AM »

When my now 29 year old OTTB was 24 he was living with another retired horse out on soft grass. His feet were getting progressively worse and the farrier I was using at the time kept insisting that he was sore because he needed front shoes. I called a woman who taught the "barefoot method" and she came out for a look. She trimmed him up and told me that most farriers these days just know how to shoe them, and going barefoot means just pulling the shoes - not giving any thought to "readying" the hoof to be in a natural state. She requested that I hand walk the old horse on the pavement in the driveway as much as possible...after a few weeks, the soreness went away.
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« Reply #42 on: August 01, 2011, 10:15:58 AM »

There's a supplement feed additive called ez pellets that i have used for sand cracks/weak walls and it worked wonders. Blue Seal feeds sells it for about $17 dollars a 50lb bag and it takes 3-4 months to really see an effect but it really worked on one i had with shelly feet. Stopped losing shoes and tearing the walls apart. Also toe clips help as well if your blacksmith does it right. The pellets have high biotin level, vit E and methionine and horse loved to eat the pellets so they get it all.
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« Reply #43 on: August 01, 2011, 01:08:38 PM »

  yeah I feed a supplement too.  I always liked Source.  Anything with biotin, same difference.  Problem nowadays not too many keep a horse around long enough to see any improvement so they don't bother with anything. It's all about the quick fix. Let the consequences be someone else's problem down the line.
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« Reply #44 on: August 14, 2011, 11:54:09 AM »

  Here's what that right front looks like now almost exactly a year later.  I have before/after of the other hooves.... the right front just happened to be the worst.

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« Reply #45 on: August 14, 2011, 11:55:28 AM »

  Side view where all that rebuilder was thought to be necessary.  Are they hard?  Yes.  Do I get grief from my blacksmith over that?  Sure do... nothing a coffee and a muffin can't fix, though.

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« Reply #46 on: August 30, 2011, 08:47:51 PM »

Im looking for some idea's on best way to grow out a hoof...?
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« Reply #47 on: August 31, 2011, 05:37:16 AM »

 Source is my preference but any of the hoof supplements... Horseshoer's Secret etc.
 
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« Reply #48 on: August 31, 2011, 04:51:45 PM »

Im looking for some idea's on best way to grow out a hoof...?

  To just stimulate growth of otherwise normal foot I always used Reducine on coronets......
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« Reply #49 on: August 31, 2011, 06:52:04 PM »

Im looking for some idea's on best way to grow out a hoof...?
for me the best product is balsam of peru to stimulate growth. a little pricey but well worth the extra cost. mix it with a little fish oil to make it more appliable. apply to just the coronary band . not the whole hoof as the periople needs to breathe. grows a foot faster than anything ive ever used. problem is, why the bad foot in the first place? fix that problem and the rest will fall into place.  http://www.jacksmfg.com/details.asp?product_id=249
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« Reply #50 on: August 03, 2012, 10:43:50 AM »

An old time trotter trainer I knew used to cut a foot shape from and old automobile tire and put it between foot and shoe.  Seemed to work very well.
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« Reply #51 on: August 03, 2012, 06:42:39 PM »

An old time trotter trainer I knew used to cut a foot shape from and old automobile tire and put it between foot and shoe.  Seemed to work very well.
bowing [bw]Those were called Cabos Zappatas.
It so interesting what guys did before shock tamers and all that stuff.
I never for get one guy I knew made a real nice doctor boot for the feet out of an innertube and also made a pair of real nice iceboots from the same tube it was real neat he just fold the tube so there would be no seem . you no i think ALOT of the stuff like that always works as good as payn outstanding money for something fancy that dont last any longer than it takes to eat a bowl of cheerios.
You no the old saying necessity is the birth of genius.
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