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Author Topic: Goldikova trainer says G has faced better than Z  (Read 2508 times)
CLOCKERTERRY
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« on: September 02, 2010, 02:18:23 PM »

The trainer of the best horse that will be at the BC this year has spoken:

"Reached by phone in France on Wednesday, trainer Freddie Head said Goldikova is as “good as she has ever been” as she targets a third consecutive triumph in the Breeders’ Cup Mile (G1).

Head praised Zenyatta, but he said Goldikova, a ten-time Grade or Group 1 winner, has faced a stiffer schedule over the last three years.

“Zenyatta is a great, great mare, with a great personality,” said Head, who as a jockey guided Miesque to two consecutive Mile wins in 1987-‘88. “The difference is that Goldikova has met, from her three-year-old year, older colts, which may not be the same for Zenyatta. She met them once in the Breeders’ Cup. All her races have not been in as top class of races as we run in Europe. That’s the only difference between them.”

http://www.thoroughbredtimes.com/racing-news/2010/September/02/Head-says-competition-sets-Goldikova-apart-from-Zenyatta.aspx
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thoroughbred
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« Reply #1 on: September 02, 2010, 02:40:43 PM »

The trainer of the best horse that will be at the BC this year has spoken:

"Reached by phone in France on Wednesday, trainer Freddie Head said Goldikova is as “good as she has ever been” as she targets a third consecutive triumph in the Breeders’ Cup Mile (G1).

Head praised Zenyatta, but he said Goldikova, a ten-time Grade or Group 1 winner, has faced a stiffer schedule over the last three years.

“Zenyatta is a great, great mare, with a great personality,” said Head, who as a jockey guided Miesque to two consecutive Mile wins in 1987-‘88. “The difference is that Goldikova has met, from her three-year-old year, older colts, which may not be the same for Zenyatta. She met them once in the Breeders’ Cup. All her races have not been in as top class of races as we run in Europe. That’s the only difference between them.”

http://www.thoroughbredtimes.com/racing-news/2010/September/02/Head-says-competition-sets-Goldikova-apart-from-Zenyatta.aspx

Yep that's what he said. Do you have a point? Or is this just another example of your childish attempts to stir the pot. I thought so.
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ZENYATTA
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« Reply #2 on: September 02, 2010, 04:03:05 PM »

Yep that's what he said. Do you have a point? Or is this just another example of your childish attempts to stir the pot. I thought so.

Let's look at this another way.

I doubt if there is another post with a story about Godlikova from BETTYCROCKER despite her being among the best ever.He posts this only because of the reference to Zenyatta.
Only an idiot could not see that Goldikova has faced better in her career than Z or practically every horse that races in the US.

Joe Mama starts a thread about Euros and the upcoming BC yet not a peep from BETTYCROCKER.
What a surprise !
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ChitownSteve75
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« Reply #3 on: September 02, 2010, 06:03:20 PM »

I love Goldikova. She's one of my favorite horses ever. Nice attempt by Clockerferry to get us to slam the great Goldikova - not gonna happen! Looks like RA is yesterdays news as Terry is now bringing Goldi into the fray. I will say this, I think Zenyatta can run on the grass and would be awfully tough to beat.
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ZENYATTA THE GREAT! NOT RA!
CLOCKERTERRY
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« Reply #4 on: September 02, 2010, 07:02:20 PM »

I love Goldikova. She's one of my favorite horses ever. Nice attempt by Clockerferry to get us to slam the great Goldikova - not gonna happen! Looks like RA is yesterdays news as Terry is now bringing Goldi into the fray. I will say this, I think Zenyatta can run on the grass and would be awfully tough to beat.

RA has been yesterday's news for quite some time as far as I am concerned. It's all about Z, her ducking, and the weak schedule. This story shows that even people "across the pond" recognize the powder puff derby it for what it is.
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thoroughbred
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« Reply #5 on: September 02, 2010, 07:11:35 PM »

RA has been yesterday's news for quite some time as far as I am concerned. It's all about Z, her ducking, and the weak schedule. This story shows that even people "across the pond" recognize the powder puff derby it for what it is.

I've said before that clockerterry needs professional help to deal with this obsessive compulsive behavior and he just keeps proving my point. He is utterly helpless against the urge to bash Zenyatta, he simply can't pass up an opportunity to do so. I swear the man has a sickness.
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ChitownSteve75
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« Reply #6 on: September 02, 2010, 08:16:20 PM »

I've said before that clockerterry needs professional help to deal with this obsessive compulsive behavior and he just keeps proving my point. He is utterly helpless against the urge to bash Zenyatta, he simply can't pass up an opportunity to do so. I swear the man has a sickness.

He's blinded by the Zenyatta fury. Her 18-0 record has him going insane. All rationale has left and now dogma is entering into his brain.
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ZENYATTA THE GREAT! NOT RA!
brianwspencer
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« Reply #7 on: September 02, 2010, 08:33:51 PM »

He is utterly helpless against the urge to bash Zenyatta, he simply can't pass up an opportunity to do so. I swear the man has a sickness.

I just really don't care anymore, but in fairness to Terry, I think that the fact that at one point this weekend, something like the top eight most recently started/commented on threads on this forum were, in fact, nothing more than blind and spiteful RA bashing proves that this "sickness," were we to call it that, is not unique to Terry.

I just don't have the energy for it anymore -- to repost the same 12 things I've posted 25 times apiece to participate in the same discussion for the 105th time with the same people, but for those who still do, it should be clear that Terry is far from alone with his "sickness" that leads him to post negative things about one specific horse just to stir the pot. If we were to all step back and come up with a reasoned analysis, my guess is that 90% of them would sound quite a bit more similar than we'd all like to think at this point in time, knowing what we know today through 8 months of the racing season.

And for the record, so you don't take it in a way I don't intend, this post is not even really directed towards you, your comment was just the catalyst for me writing this.
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ZENYATTA
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« Reply #8 on: September 02, 2010, 09:34:56 PM »

Brian,

No problem with any of your post.

I will only point this one thing out.Yesterday around 11:00 PM the person who started this thread postes on another thread he was all for combining the RA and Z threads,He went onto say he did not see the need for the 7-8 threads.

Not a day went by,less than 24 hrs later he starts this thread and we all know the reaosns why.
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CLOCKERTERRY
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« Reply #9 on: September 02, 2010, 11:28:21 PM »

I just really don't care anymore, but in fairness to Terry, I think that the fact that at one point this weekend, something like the top eight most recently started/commented on threads on this forum were, in fact, nothing more than blind and spiteful RA bashing proves that this "sickness," were we to call it that, is not unique to Terry.

Truly, and that is pointed out by Steve flying off the handle and into a tizzy within minutes of RA losing her race, blinded by his RA fury and bitter jealousy that still drives him insane after an entire year, followed immediately by a three day orgy of RA bashing by the remainder of the *** crew. These people are truly sick, and should seek professional help.

Quote
it should be clear that Terry is far from alone with his "sickness" that leads him to post negative things about one specific horse just to stir the pot.

Well, yes, since I have clearly stated about 100 times that what I'm doing is intentionally reflecting the sickness of the z-tards right back at them, and indeed, exactly the same language when I can. Real pretty, ain't it?

 laughing guy laughing guy laughing guy

These yo-yo's making out like I'm doing something special are nothing but a bunch of goofs. How I sound to them talking about Z is exactly how they sound to the rest of the world talking about RA (or Secretariat, or whatever other horse they find it necessary to tear down) in order to make their heroine Zenyatta somehow look better ... although, as the old saying sort of goes goes, with "fans" like that, who needs enemas?

 laughing guy
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thoroughbred
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« Reply #10 on: September 02, 2010, 11:57:53 PM »

Truly, and that is pointed out by Steve flying off the handle and into a tizzy within minutes of RA losing her race, blinded by his RA fury and bitter jealousy that still drives him insane after an entire year, followed immediately by a three day orgy of RA bashing by the remainder of the *** crew. These people are truly sick, and should seek professional help.

Well, yes, since I have clearly stated about 100 times that what I'm doing is intentionally reflecting the sickness of the z-tards right back at them, and indeed, exactly the same language when I can. Real pretty, ain't it?

 laughing guy laughing guy laughing guy

These yo-yo's making out like I'm doing something special are nothing but a bunch of goofs. How I sound to them talking about Z is exactly how they sound to the rest of the world talking about RA (or Secretariat, or whatever other horse they find it necessary to tear down) in order to make their heroine Zenyatta somehow look better ... although, as the old saying sort of goes goes, with "fans" like that, who needs enemas?

 laughing guy

I've got an idea terry, why don't you just pm your insults to the intended parties then. Why continue to subject the rest of us who have never said a bad word about either horse to this endless supply of mindless drivel?
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CLOCKERbiggestal
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« Reply #11 on: September 03, 2010, 04:55:01 AM »

RA has been yesterday's news for quite some time as far as I am concerned. It's all about Z, her ducking, and the weak schedule. This story shows that even people "across the pond" recognize the powder puff derby it for what it is.

Every race fan should realize that goldikova faces way more comp each race than Zenayatta, This year she's faced (and Beat) no less than 7 Group 1 winners

1. Byword
2. Stacelita
3. Weiner Walzer
4. Paco Boy (Twice)
5. Rip Van Winkle
6. Music Show
7. Elusive Wave

and lost to 1

1. Makfi

Very impressive.


 clocker biggestal
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Kickers beat one-pacers almost every time.
Horse Voice
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« Reply #12 on: September 03, 2010, 06:43:17 AM »

Every race fan should realize that goldikova faces way more comp each race than Zenayatta

What?

Al -- are you trying to tell us that, maybe, just MAYBE -- Zenyatta ISN'T the BESTEST, GREATEST HORSE THERE HAS EVER BEEN, IN THE WHOLE WIDE WIDE WIDE WORLD??

Jeez, Al, are you trying to get killed? You DO know there are several lunatic fringe Z supporters here that would have a guy taken out for a lesser slap than that, right?

Well, good luck, and don't make it easy for anybody by driving past any landfills -- wait, that's impossible, NJ is pretty much all landfills. New York has to do something with their trash.

Just stay home, and keep the blinds closed.
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CLOCKERTERRY
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« Reply #13 on: September 03, 2010, 08:59:03 AM »

What?

Al -- are you trying to tell us that, maybe, just MAYBE -- Zenyatta ISN'T the BESTEST, GREATEST HORSE THERE HAS EVER BEEN, IN THE WHOLE WIDE WIDE WIDE WORLD??

The shame of it is, with her connections hiding Z all this time in the powder puff division, they risk have her going down in history as merely of the great mares, instead of one of the great horses, simply because she wasn't tested on any kind of regular basis, like the campaigns of Goldikova, or Gio Ponti, or any of the other top horses in training. Instead, her legacy will be, "They took every easy road possible to keep her unbeaten record intact".
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ChitownSteve75
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« Reply #14 on: September 03, 2010, 09:04:23 AM »

It's possible not to face the better competition and still be the better horse.  Wink

In my opinion, Goldikova has faced better (and lost one) while Zenyatta has faced less and beaten everyone. However, 3 BC wins including 2 Classics along with a Distaff win will put her in higher company than Goldi - even if she wins the Mile 3 straight years. They're both great. RA is not.
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ZENYATTA THE GREAT! NOT RA!
ZENYATTA
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« Reply #15 on: September 03, 2010, 09:05:47 AM »

If I recall the field at CD the day she scratched was not exactly overfilled with entries let alone quality ones.
They also ran from her again this year when she went to Oaklawn for the Apple Blossom.

It is hard to quantify for sure how good Z is as she has never been beaten.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2010, 09:12:28 AM by NIATROSS » Report to moderator   Logged
ChitownSteve75
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« Reply #16 on: September 03, 2010, 09:21:32 AM »

If I recall the field at CD the day she scratched was not exactly overfilled with entries let alone quality ones.
They also ran from her again this year when she went to Oaklawn for the Apple Blossom.

It is hard to quantify for sure how good Z is as she has never been beaten.

right, and Z will be in the Superbowl of horse racing, the Breeders Cup Classic! It will be the best field assembled in some time. years!
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ZENYATTA THE GREAT! NOT RA!
CLOCKERTERRY
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« Reply #17 on: September 03, 2010, 09:30:55 AM »

It's possible not to face the better competition and still be the better horse.  Wink

It's also possible to face little of import 17 times, and get lucky once against a limited subset of horses.

Here's the part of the original quote I found the most interesting, when Head was damning Z with faint praise:

"'Zenyatta is a great, great mare, with a great personality,'" said Head"

A great personality ... like she's the ugly gal at work you're trying to set up with your brother in law.

 laughing guy laughing guy laughing guy

Face it ... It's obvious to the whole world that the Z connections have kept her out of any meaningful competition pretty much her whole career.
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CLOCKERTERRY
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« Reply #18 on: September 03, 2010, 09:31:23 AM »

right, and Z will be in the Superbowl of horse racing, the Breeders Cup Classic! It will be the best field assembled in some time. years!

Well, since last year's weak edition, anyhow.
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thoroughbred
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« Reply #19 on: September 03, 2010, 09:57:32 AM »

The shame of it is, with her connections hiding Z all this time in the powder puff division, they risk have her going down in history as merely of the great mares, instead of one of the great horses, simply because she wasn't tested on any kind of regular basis, like the campaigns of Goldikova, or Gio Ponti, or any of the other top horses in training. Instead, her legacy will be, "They took every easy road possible to keep her unbeaten record intact".

I think it is reasonable to conclude the Mosses'  aren't nearly as concerned about where she goes down in history as some of the people on here. We aren't talking about stupid people here, they are fully aware of what the "experts" have said about her campaign.

Let's consider two possible scenarios for a moment. The first, John sherriffs say's to them," Look we have a very special horse here. We can ship her all over the country and take on males every chance we get and she will win some and she will lose some. We can run her straight into the ground, but hey at least the nimrods on all the internet forums will say she ran a tough campaign."

Or he say's " We have a very special horse here. We can map out a smart campaign, keep her happy, healthy, mentally and physically tough. We can pick our shot's against the males and do something no horse has ever done before. And along the way probably even win a hoy or two."

Honestly, which one would you choose? I already know what the idiot will say, but what about the rest of you?
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mel4600
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« Reply #20 on: September 03, 2010, 09:59:28 AM »

Maybe Goldikova's connections can grow a pair to go with their mouth and run in the Classic against the best in the world. Remember Zarkova ran against weaker and demolished Goldikova twice in 2 tries, beating her worse the second go around. Goldikova has distance and surface limitations which makes her not as good as Zenyatta. The best will be in the Classic, not the grass mile! laughing guy  
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ChitownSteve75
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« Reply #21 on: September 03, 2010, 10:05:45 AM »

Maybe Goldikova's connections can grow a pair to go with their mouth and run in the Classic against the best in the world. Remember Zarkova ran against weaker and demolished Goldikova twice in 2 tries, beating her worse the second go around. Goldikova has distance and surface limitations which makes her not as good as Zenyatta. The best will be in the Classic, not the grass mile! laughing guy  

I agree. Zenyatta can run on anything. I doubt Goldikova can run on dirt, synthetics maybe.
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brianwspencer
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« Reply #22 on: September 03, 2010, 10:32:25 AM »

I think it is reasonable to conclude the Mosses'  aren't nearly as concerned about where she goes down in history as some of the people on here. We aren't talking about stupid people here, they are fully aware of what the "experts" have said about her campaign.

Let's consider two possible scenarios for a moment. The first, John sherriffs say's to them," Look we have a very special horse here. We can ship her all over the country and take on males every chance we get and she will win some and she will lose some. We can run her straight into the ground, but hey at least the nimrods on all the internet forums will say she ran a tough campaign."

Or he say's " We have a very special horse here. We can map out a smart campaign, keep her happy, healthy, mentally and physically tough. We can pick our shot's against the males and do something no horse has ever done before. And along the way probably even win a hoy or two."

Honestly, which one would you choose? I already know what the idiot will say, but what about the rest of you?

Caveat to everything that follows is the usual one: I'm among the biggest proponents of connections doing whatever they please with their horses. The cheap ones, the good ones, the young ones, the gritty vets -- let them run where they want to run, but that POV does not insulate a team from criticism.

As for the question of "what would you do?"

If you asked that a year ago today, I'd very easily agree with the latter portion. Sound mare who stays healthy, let's take good care of her and keep her winning and do something special. They did, and she did.

But I can't imagine choosing to bring a mare like that back after doing something as spectacular as she did in the Classic last year just to do the same crusty things over and over again. There's a fine balance that can be struck between "we can ship her all over the country and take on males every chance we get" and "we can take some chances to cement her greatness."

Because after last year's Classic, there's little doubt that they're racing one of the greatest mares we've ever seen, and yes, I can honestly say that at that point, I'd be saying "we may potentially, just maybe, have one of the greatest HORSES of all time, period. Let's prove it, and let's find out." Keeping a horse happy and healthy and campaigning them in tougher spots are not mutually exclusive ideas....trainers have found ways to do it for years, and certainly Shirreffs, we all know, is an excellent enough horseman to do just that. Would I be shipping for every race, taking on boys in every race, running her every 4 weeks into the ground? Absolutely not. But I'd have certainly been at the Stephen Foster, and my horse's health be willing, would certainly be in something like the JCGC to prep for the BC Classic. Taking on boys three times in a year is not an automatic trip to the sore-horse house, ask Goldikova.

Then when I go win the BC Classic, I'm able to say "look at what this horse has done, find me anything that matches up to her," rather than "look at these three excellent races my horse ran, tell me if she's the greatest of all time."

It's a fine line. They're doing what they want to do, and that's their right, but they wouldn't have needed to run her into the ground to take that next step. After doing what they did in the 2009 Classic, putting her right on the cusp of the pinnacle of greatness in racing history, it's impossible to say that her legacy among the greatest of great racehorses would not be forefront in my mind if I brought her back again. It's obviously not how they're doing business, but I don't think that it's quite the either/or as presented.

Hope that makes sense, tb.
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mel4600
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« Reply #23 on: September 03, 2010, 10:57:08 AM »


Honestly, which one would you choose? I already know what the idiot will say, but what about the rest of you?

I agree with you 100%. Sure, we all would like to see better races, however, won't the best show for the Classic? Whats more to prove for a mare in a single year? The best females know where she is at, and if they wanted to prove their point they could have run against her in any of the many Grade 1's. They chose not to and most have been dodging Z. Zenyatta traveled to take on the best female in the U.S. in only her 4th start, that's what the others should do. She is simply the best ever.
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Marcus Hersh
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« Reply #24 on: September 03, 2010, 11:00:57 AM »

I love Goldikova. She's one of my favorite horses ever. Nice attempt by Clockerferry to get us to slam the great Goldikova - not gonna happen! Looks like RA is yesterdays news as Terry is now bringing Goldi into the fray. I will say this, I think Zenyatta can run on the grass and would be awfully tough to beat.

I hear she's coming for the Beverly D.
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