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Author Topic: Where Does Hambo Go?  (Read 2677 times)
Buggyboy
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« on: July 21, 2010, 08:27:02 PM »

  Title askes the question.... When/if Big M vanishes as a racetrack, where does tha Annabelle, Mistletoe, Hambo Oaks, Nat Ray, Med Pace (gone I assume??), Governors Cup (again gone...) and the numerous other stakes go?
  I expect the usual amusing answers, but it asks a serious question.  Out west is broke, KY wont work.....move races to 5/8ths??? Canada??  Input here should be interesting....thanx thumbs up
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Claiming King
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« Reply #1 on: July 21, 2010, 08:30:58 PM »

Indiana maybe?
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JuiceJunkies
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« Reply #2 on: July 21, 2010, 08:42:28 PM »

WEG PENN AND YONK. WHAT OTHERCHOICE DO THEY HAVE? I SAY SET IT UP SO THE EVNTS YOU MENTIONED ROTATE BETWEEN THOSE 3 AREAS.

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Buggyboy
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« Reply #3 on: July 21, 2010, 08:56:19 PM »

  Hambo at Yonkers?Huh.......ummm no thanks.
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Claiming King
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« Reply #4 on: July 21, 2010, 08:59:52 PM »

The rules state it has to be raced on a mile track. I suppose they could change the conditions but I wouldn't think that would be the first choice.
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Yonkers1
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« Reply #5 on: July 21, 2010, 09:02:55 PM »

Vernon
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Robat
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« Reply #6 on: July 21, 2010, 09:15:08 PM »

Back to its home.......Syracuse...... At least by 2013,maybe sooner...
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Buggyboy
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« Reply #7 on: July 21, 2010, 09:18:33 PM »

Back to its home.......Syracuse...... At least by 2013,maybe sooner...

  No problem with that for the Hambo, but Im curious....is this speculation on your part, or some info we missed?
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wilderness
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« Reply #8 on: July 21, 2010, 09:25:01 PM »

  No problem with that for the Hambo, but Im curious....is this speculation on your part, or some info we missed?

The first four Hambletonian's (1926-29) were scheduled to race at Syracuse.
 Only two were. The other two were held at Lexington and a week or two prior to the Kentucky Futurity. Don't recall the exact years (and too lazy to look), however believe the Lexington years were 1927 & 1929.

 In all likelihood the Hambletonian will never return to NY, for the same reason it was moved from Good Time Park after the passing of Bill Cane.

 The Hambletonian Society has taken bids every year of the existence for the upcoming scheduled year of the Hambletonian, regardless of whether they had any intention of acceptance or not. The bidding process has simply been a policy from the start.
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wilderness
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« Reply #9 on: July 21, 2010, 09:27:55 PM »

BTW, perhaps the Hambo should go to Kalamazoo, MI (where some rumors are that "Elvis is alive and living") was the under-bidder on the 1st Hambo in 1926 Wink
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« Reply #10 on: July 21, 2010, 09:33:38 PM »

  No problem with that for the Hambo, but Im curious....is this speculation on your part, or some info we missed?

Rumor but from a pretty reliable sorce.. Vernon or Syracuse so you know who is behind this..  And.... that is not all bad...
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Buggyboy
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« Reply #11 on: July 21, 2010, 09:39:25 PM »

Rumor but from a pretty reliable sorce.. Vernon or Syracuse so you know who is behind this..  And.... that is not all bad...
  Rumors are not reliable, but I can see Syracuse if NY figures they can make money on the deal....and that is after funding, ect.....something the Big M failed to do for some time now.....so just how are they gonna pull this off when NJ called it a waste of money?
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Robat
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« Reply #12 on: July 21, 2010, 09:47:20 PM »

1926 & 28 at Syracuse, 1927 & 29 at Lex. due to rainout at Syracuse.. 1930 to56 at Goshen, except 1943 Yonkers due to gas shortage.  1957 to 1980 at DeQuoin and 1981 to present at The Meadowlands...
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Whiskey Wrists
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« Reply #13 on: July 21, 2010, 10:36:18 PM »

It will go to Goshen, NY. They will rebuild Good Time Park.

If not, then to Canada. Mohawk or Woodbine. Big Market and a caring public!!
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wilderness
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« Reply #14 on: July 21, 2010, 10:41:58 PM »

It will go to Goshen, NY. They will rebuild Good Time Park.

 They'll need to dig up and rebuild Bill Cane as well Wink
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Buggyboy
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« Reply #15 on: July 21, 2010, 10:50:15 PM »

1926 & 28 at Syracuse, 1927 & 29 at Lex. due to rainout at Syracuse.. 1930 to56 at Goshen, except 1943 Yonkers due to gas shortage.  1957 to 1980 at DeQuoin and 1981 to present at The Meadowlands...

  Interesting history lesson we all knew, but thread IS about the future....thanx nonetheless.....
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Robat
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« Reply #16 on: July 22, 2010, 07:15:19 AM »

Future ?/ Okay... Book your hotel room in Central N.Y.State for 2013 Hambo....
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DiAnotherDei
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« Reply #17 on: July 22, 2010, 07:56:04 AM »

Vernon
Vernon isn't a mile track....Syracuse would be a nice choice. Bring the Hambo back to one of it's previous homes. The Syaracuse Mile would then maybe brought back to life...get the Grand Circuit races back there.

Syracuse was awesome when it was going.
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Yonkers1
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« Reply #18 on: July 22, 2010, 08:14:57 AM »

Vernon isn't a mile track....Syracuse would be a nice choice. Bring the Hambo back to one of it's previous homes. The Syaracuse Mile would then maybe brought back to life...get the Grand Circuit races back there.

Syracuse was awesome when it was going.

They can change the specs to allow for a 7/8 mile track. They moved a lot of races that use to be raced at the Syracuse Fairgrounds to Tioga via a legislative change
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« Reply #19 on: July 22, 2010, 08:30:13 AM »

Vernon isn't a mile track....Syracuse would be a nice choice. Bring the Hambo back to one of it's previous homes. The Syaracuse Mile would then maybe brought back to life...get the Grand Circuit races back there.

Syracuse was awesome when it was going.

  I remember my father racing a colt in the NY Sire Stakes there in early 60's when the State Fair was also going on.  Maybe it wasn't as big as a young kid perceived it, but I remember HUGE and AWESOME!!!
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Robat
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« Reply #20 on: July 22, 2010, 08:34:57 AM »

My guess would be the directors would vote to have it on a 7/8th mi. track before sending it to Canada.  Meadowlands is not broke (both financially and physically) yet but well bent..
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Homeboyhanover
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« Reply #21 on: July 22, 2010, 08:47:05 AM »

The amount of contribution from the host track for this event, eliminates most all tracks.
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fairgame
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« Reply #22 on: July 22, 2010, 08:50:55 AM »

1926 & 28 at Syracuse, 1927 & 29 at Lex. due to rainout at Syracuse.. 1930 to56 at Goshen, except 1943 Yonkers due to gas shortage.  1957 to 1980 at DeQuoin and 1981 to present at The Meadowlands...

i found this interesting thanks for taing the trouble to post it
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buggy
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« Reply #23 on: July 22, 2010, 08:57:35 AM »

Mohawk would be perfect. Just take a look at the show they put on for the North America's Cup. IMO, that is the only other place it should be at besides the Meadowlands.
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wilderness
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« Reply #24 on: July 22, 2010, 09:02:39 AM »

i found this interesting thanks for taing the trouble to post it

 If you enjoyed the reflection?
 You might look at the photo on the Hambletonian Society's website of the trophy from those early years.
 It was quite lavish and a good 3-4 feet tall.

 Even though the society has a few photo's of that early photo, they are still hoping to come across a close-up photo which will show all the detail.
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Regards Don
OldGreyMare
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« Reply #25 on: July 22, 2010, 10:04:11 AM »

  Wonder where the actual trophy is now? 
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OTB
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« Reply #26 on: July 22, 2010, 10:10:39 AM »

  Wonder where the actual trophy is now? 

On Tom Charters fireplace mantle.
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DiAnotherDei
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« Reply #27 on: July 22, 2010, 10:11:40 AM »

I personally think they should go bigtime old school with it and return it to a heated race.
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OTB
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« Reply #28 on: July 22, 2010, 10:18:18 AM »

I personally think they should go bigtime old school with it and return it to a heated race.

I agree but that will never happen, the trainers won't stand for it and more importantly the national TV networks will not give the race that much time.
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DiAnotherDei
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« Reply #29 on: July 22, 2010, 10:21:02 AM »

I agree but that will never happen, the trainers won't stand for it and more importantly the national TV networks will not give the race that much time.
Harness Racing began in the "backyard" so to speak...County Fairs etc.. guess what is really big at County Fairs?Huh Racing in Heats.

Go old school, get racing back to its roots as much as possible...
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wilderness
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« Reply #30 on: July 22, 2010, 10:33:16 AM »

  Wonder where the actual trophy is now? 

 The Society is hoping for a photo and although the trophy would be nice, in all likelihood it will never be found.

 A few years ago, somebody sold a trophy (I've some fantastic photos saved of exquisite detail) of an 1894 race at the Mich, Grosse Pointe track and "The Horseman Stake".
  The trophy was listed on eBay and an auction house simultaeously.
 The trophy sold for $37,500.00.
 Description text read:

"GORHAM STERLING SILVER TROPHY, 'THE HORSEMAN CUP', DETROIT, C. 1894, H 21"", W 20"""
"Inscribed ""This Cup Added By The Horseman to The Horseman Guaranteed Stake, Value $20,355 For Foals Of 1890 Was Won July 17 th 1894, At The Blue Ribbon Meeting At Detroit, Mich., In The First, Fourth And Fifth Heats Of The Race By The Black Colt DANCOURT By Ambassador, 2:21 1/4 - Dam, Lowland Girl, 2:19 1/2 by Legal Tender Jr., 2:26 1/2 Bred And Owned By S. A. BROWNE, Kalamazoo, Mich. Time 2:15 1/2. 2:17. 2:17.""; having highly detailed and ornate acorn and leaf design in relief with two branch style handles and two thoroughbred horses and colt on base, all of sterling silver. Gorham hallmarks on inside bottom rim of base, number 4531 enclosed and date mark for 1894, also states 26 pint capacity. Inscription states name of winners, track time, day and year. The names and times of the previous mentioned horses adorn the rim at the base. A beautiful piece. 22 lbs.+ weight."
end of quote

 If the original Hambo trophy was "silver' it was likely melted down.
 Over the years horsemen were given a variety of trophies (silver and otherwise), even table settings and watches.
 Most families and when their relatives pass, are without any knowledge or appreciation for these old items.

 Stan Bergstein still has a watch that was presented to he, more than fifty years ago.
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wilderness
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« Reply #31 on: July 22, 2010, 10:40:15 AM »

BTW,
       There's a photo of Alma Sheppard with one of these oversized trophies (cups) in which the thing is almost taller than Alma Wink
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« Reply #32 on: July 22, 2010, 11:35:09 AM »

Harness Racing began in the "backyard" so to speak...County Fairs etc.. guess what is really big at County Fairs?Huh Racing in Heats.

Go old school, get racing back to its roots as much as possible...

I understand but there are other factors at play these days, namely trainers wishes and television.

I remember when the Hambo was on ESPN and they would show the whole card, now all it warrants is an hour and wise cracking TB dummies calling it buggy racing.
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Buggyboy
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« Reply #33 on: July 22, 2010, 12:04:02 PM »

My guess would be the directors would vote to have it on a 7/8th mi. track before sending it to Canada.  Meadowlands is not broke (both financially and physically) yet but well bent..

  With all due respect sir/madam...M has relied on state funds to stay open for several years now.  Last year it was 10m from coffers.  Main reason for current situation is because the well has run dry-no more state hand-outs.
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DiAnotherDei
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« Reply #34 on: July 22, 2010, 12:08:57 PM »

I remember when the Hambo was on ESPN and they would show the whole card, now all it warrants is an hour and wise cracking TB dummies calling it buggy racing.
EXACTLY...and people wonder why Harness Racing goes in the crapper...its because of things like that. If they had some knowledgeable, charismatic people who could communicate well be co-hosting the race it may be different. In all actuality, it would be possible to have ESPN do the Hambo in a heated format if they tried to do so. I mean there is ESPN Classic movies....so why not have a Hambo day combined with ESPN Classic? Show one heat, then go to say The Great Dan Patch, April Love or Home In Indiana...swing back and forth between the movie(s) and the race coverage....

Do a prelude with some background/history to the Standardbred breed, etc... then do a Heat, some interviews, maybe a short biography on some of the horses or trainers/drivers in the race, go to the second Heat...go to The Great Dan Patch and then come back for the last Heat...devote a friggen afternoon to Harness Racing. One day out of 365 isn't much to ask for considering T-Breds get at a minimum 3-afternoons in a year.

Maybe people in this industry need to get off their butts and DEMAND things like this then maybe just maybe things may start to change.
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wilderness
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« Reply #35 on: July 22, 2010, 12:33:39 PM »

EXACTLY...and people wonder why Harness Racing goes in the crapper...its because of things like that. If they had some knowledgeable, charismatic people who could communicate well be co-hosting the race it may be different. In all actuality, it would be possible to have ESPN do the Hambo in a heated format if they tried to do so. I mean there is ESPN Classic movies....so why not have a Hambo day combined with ESPN Classic? Show one heat, then go to say The Great Dan Patch, April Love or Home In Indiana...swing back and forth between the movie(s) and the race coverage....

Do a prelude with some background/history to the Standardbred breed, etc... then do a Heat, some interviews, maybe a short biography on some of the horses or trainers/drivers in the race, go to the second Heat...go to The Great Dan Patch and then come back for the last Heat...devote a friggen afternoon to Harness Racing. One day out of 365 isn't much to ask for considering T-Breds get at a minimum 3-afternoons in a year.

Maybe people in this industry need to get off their butts and DEMAND things like this then maybe just maybe things may start to change.

 The problem is "air time".

 Due to a lack of advertsiers and lack of any possible revenue for potential advertisers, and due to the declining market share of harness racing?

 The Hambletonian Society has been required to foot-the-bill for the air time.

 Hell!
 Even George Foreman's participation at two Hambletonian's was NOT FREE. George has a minimum fee of 20k, and although George donated the money to charities, the Hambletonian Society still had to come up with the 20k on top of the air time fees.

 I kinda doubt the Hambletonian Society is making that kind of of money off the escrow accounts for the sustaining fees?
 Anybody know for sure?
 Anybody seen a P&L of the broadcast fees?
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Homeboyhanover
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« Reply #36 on: July 22, 2010, 12:40:42 PM »

You can not make people watch something they don't care about.
 ESPN did a great job. CBS did a great job. The netwoks will put money into something they can sell. If harness racing could show an advertiser they have X amount of viewers in a specific or even a broad demographic, they would pay for a 30 or 60 second spot. But, they cant and the sponsors will not buy it.
 You can't sell a 2:05 trotter to a person needing to race at Yonkers. Not even if you offered it to him for 1$
  Just as you cant sell a program that does a .5 share, when you need a 10 share. Harness racing has little if any marketability.
 That is not the fault of the network. They wish it did.
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wilderness
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« Reply #37 on: July 22, 2010, 12:52:48 PM »

  If the original Hambo trophy was "silver' it was likely melted down.
 Over the years horsemen were given a variety of trophies (silver and otherwise), even table settings and watches.
 Most families and when their relatives pass, are without any knowledge or appreciation for these old items.

 This reply was sent to me privately by a friend:

Don, read your responses on BTW regarding the "original" Hambo trophy -- the Onondaga Hotel trophy.  There is a duplicate at the Round Barn at the Red Mile/
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Regards Don
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« Reply #38 on: July 22, 2010, 03:11:10 PM »

My thoughts are that if a horse is good enough to go for the triple crown with the YT contested on a half, and the Futurity at a Mile, I'd like to see a race on a track with 5/8 or 7/8. I doubt breaking from that tradition is likely and neither is the chance at a triple crown winner any time soon the way the last few years have gone. It doesn't seem like the Yonkers Trot is a big deal recently... no Dewey, Donato, or Muscle Hill. No chance at a triple crown winner. I digress and that's for another post. It'll be interesting to see what happens.
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« Reply #39 on: July 22, 2010, 03:27:48 PM »

The problem is "air time".

 Due to a lack of advertsiers and lack of any possible revenue for potential advertisers, and due to the declining market share of harness racing?

 The Hambletonian Society has been required to foot-the-bill for the air time.

 Hell!
 Even George Foreman's participation at two Hambletonian's was NOT FREE. George has a minimum fee of 20k, and although George donated the money to charities, the Hambletonian Society still had to come up with the 20k on top of the air time fees.

 I kinda doubt the Hambletonian Society is making that kind of of money off the escrow accounts for the sustaining fees?
 Anybody know for sure?
 Anybody seen a P&L of the broadcast fees?

For the record George split his fees between his foundation and the American Red Cross.  In fact the boy scout who received the check on behalf of the Red Cross was found that morning outside a beauty parlor...true story.
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Moni for free
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« Reply #40 on: July 22, 2010, 04:28:32 PM »

EXACTLY...and people wonder why Harness Racing goes in the crapper...its because of things like that. If they had some knowledgeable, charismatic people who could communicate well be co-hosting the race it may be different. In all actuality, it would be possible to have ESPN do the Hambo in a heated format if they tried to do so. I mean there is ESPN Classic movies....so why not have a Hambo day combined with ESPN Classic? Show one heat, then go to say The Great Dan Patch, April Love or Home In Indiana...swing back and forth between the movie(s) and the race coverage....

Do a prelude with some background/history to the Standardbred breed, etc... then do a Heat, some interviews, maybe a short biography on some of the horses or trainers/drivers in the race, go to the second Heat...go to The Great Dan Patch and then come back for the last Heat...devote a friggen afternoon to Harness Racing. One day out of 365 isn't much to ask for considering T-Breds get at a minimum 3-afternoons in a year.

Maybe people in this industry need to get off their butts and DEMAND things like this then maybe just maybe things may start to change.
ESPN does have features on Dan Patch, Greyhound and Niatross already in the archives, it's a doable idea and really, how much money do they really make on ESPNC anyway? 
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TKs Skipper
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« Reply #41 on: July 22, 2010, 05:01:37 PM »

Didnt CBS or NBC (whoever has the current rights) sign a fairly long deal to host the race?

ESPN would have almost zero interest anyway, the ratings are not good
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handsomeharry76
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« Reply #42 on: July 22, 2010, 09:22:43 PM »

the 2011 Hambo will be at The Meadowlands

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