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Author Topic: Saunders on Jamieson's Drive  (Read 2275 times)
kingofpain
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« on: July 20, 2010, 04:18:10 PM »

http://www.theharnessedge.com/story.asp?Mode=View&Story=41111

If guess Saunders wanted everyone to just let his horse win! It is The Meadowlands Pace you are not going to control thrace fom start to finish. Jody was protecting the rail, Kyle Major was ALL Fired Up that 1st Quarter!
« Last Edit: July 20, 2010, 04:24:38 PM by kingofpain » Report to moderator   Logged
vaporize
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« Reply #1 on: July 20, 2010, 04:22:44 PM »

Seems as if Mr. Saunders is  censor censor .  Guess JJ won't be driving anymore for him.  laughing guy laughing guy laughing guy
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speedbreak
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« Reply #2 on: July 20, 2010, 04:54:03 PM »

I guess Saunders just expected them to hand him the win because he wanted it so bad :}
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« Reply #3 on: July 20, 2010, 05:00:47 PM »

http://www.theharnessedge.com/story.asp?Mode=View&Story=41111

If guess Saunders wanted everyone to just let his horse win! It is The Meadowlands Pace you are not going to control thrace fom start to finish. Jody was protecting the rail, Kyle Major was ALL Fired Up that 1st Quarter!

If you think Jody drove a good race then you are completely clueless.....He finished last......You act like you're not supposed to let the favorite win (and if youre driving a competitive horse youre not) but to completely compromise a legitimate horses chances with a horse that obviously had no chance is 5 times as bad.....If he turns Campbell loose early Yannick might move and the whole race could have been different.....No guarantee Saunders horse would have won anyway......But theres no defense for Jody's drive and you wouldnt get one other driver to say he drove a good race......Except maybe Brandon Simpson
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BabyFireFly
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« Reply #4 on: July 20, 2010, 05:10:25 PM »

Saunders is a trainer...one of the best. And unlike some big names, "managers" I call them...he sits behind his stock everyday. He works, he puts sweat into his opetation.

I don't know of any trainers who wouldn't be livid if this happened to them in a 10 claimer, let alone the Meadowlands Pace. It would be another story if that longshot ended up crushing, but it finished LAST.

Saunders came out and said how he felt, not sugar coating his take for the sensitive types who might be offended or appalled.
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yeast
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« Reply #5 on: July 20, 2010, 05:12:23 PM »

   If you watch or bet enough races you  know stuff like that happens at every track every class happens all the time. Thats why they race them.   Jody didnt drive good but in the heat of battle sometimes that happens. Jody left hard to get posistion and it was hard to gear down that horse. What did  Saunders expect get the first quarter  in 27?
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BabyFireFly
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« Reply #6 on: July 20, 2010, 05:14:52 PM »

you wouldnt get one other driver to say he drove a good race......Except maybe Brandon Simpson

Funniest thing I've heard all day...and true!!!
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BabyFireFly
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« Reply #7 on: July 20, 2010, 05:20:00 PM »

How often does a horse who cuts the mile on the big track win? Let alone a longshot?!

Sounds like poor planning, not heat of battle....

He didn't do his horse any justice...and if he couldn't hold him, what's wrong with taking back?
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Fransoph
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« Reply #8 on: July 20, 2010, 05:28:16 PM »

I think Jody had a responsibilty to his owner to get him the best check he could and he did not do that .The week before he sits behind RnR Heaven gets a nice check and makes the final.It will be interesting to see of the owner let's him drive him again.
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swoopdaddy
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« Reply #9 on: July 20, 2010, 05:38:26 PM »

How often does a horse who cuts the mile on the big track win? Let alone a longshot?!

Sounds like poor planning, not heat of battle....

He didn't do his horse any justice...and if he couldn't hold him, what's wrong with taking back?

before the race they announced on tvg that shawn robinson had changed his driving and overcheck bits. probably had a lot to do with the way he rated. i think once jody got him fired up to protect his spot he could not get him backed off. some horses are kind and will rate. he didnt. it wasnt like jody was driving on him to park john. basically, jody was just a passenger. and firefly i am a little confused by your last line. how's he going to back one off he cant hold?
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yeast
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« Reply #10 on: July 20, 2010, 05:42:54 PM »

   It happens hundreds of times a week a longshot makes life hell for a favorite.  Check out Foiled Agains last 3 races all the stupid driving. One More Laugh could make a case for running into traffic trouble things turned the other way this week. Kyle Major will make some good money some other day if Jody loses the drive so what. Just because its a big race  one bad ride gets magnified.  
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TKs Skipper
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« Reply #11 on: July 20, 2010, 05:48:05 PM »

If Saunders was sooo upset that he got parked to the quarter, he could have nipped the situation in the bud and chose the rail, not the 3 hole.

JJ had little control of that horse in the 1st quarter, give me a break saunders. too much whining in this sport
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hungry
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« Reply #12 on: July 20, 2010, 07:33:59 PM »

I guess Saunders just expected them to hand him the win because he wanted it so bad :}

If Jameison tried harder to win, he would have yielded and sat a cushy pocket. Seems like he drove just to beat the favorite and didn't really give full effort to win himself. Did he really think he was going to go a 25 quarter with a 50-1 shot and win?
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Claiming King
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« Reply #13 on: July 20, 2010, 08:40:43 PM »

I've talked in other threads about driving protocol and not using a rank outsider to pointlessly rough up a favorite. But this is the Meadowlands Pace we're talking about. All bets are off. You've got to expect guys are going to be aggressive. And it isn't like Kyle Major hasn't beaten Rock and Roll Heaven before, because he has- and not that long ago. Also, swoopdaddy makes a great point. Does anyone think Jody wouldn't have loved to just rate down in the pocket? Also, I'm pretty sure the way the bikes are now, it's a lot tougher to get one slowed down.
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canuhandlethetruth
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« Reply #14 on: July 20, 2010, 08:59:11 PM »

he let the horse roll hard off the gait to protect the pocket . If he didnt he could of got away 5 as the outside horses would of cleared . His horse didnt fire this week and these horses are not machines they cant always go big trips week after week . The rail at the meds in a big race sucks thats why no one ever chooses the rail by the way .
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TKs Skipper
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« Reply #15 on: July 20, 2010, 09:13:08 PM »

the rail sucks at the meds in every race, i was just making a sarcastic comment that if Saunders really, really didnt want to get parked, he had the option to draw the rail. why blame others when you made the choice to draw the 3, you knew right then and there someone inside of you could go speed-crazy, so dont ***
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canuhandlethetruth
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« Reply #16 on: July 20, 2010, 09:57:34 PM »

agree  thumbs up thats racing whats he thinkin they would lay down for a fav with Campbell driving , how about this i think if dube , sears , timmy drives he still wins ! But we will never know right thats why they run the race and not cut the check  beer
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thewhip
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« Reply #17 on: July 20, 2010, 10:38:45 PM »

I still don't consider what Jody did "parking" JC.
JC took extra time to get to the lead cause the horse slipped into the turn and nearly took out Yannick, he had to steady and then drive on.
I could see if Jody was whippin' the chit out of Kyle or something, but its not his fault JC took so long to get to the lead.
Saunders will regret publicly calling out a driver.. you can bet your last dollar. 
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The Minister
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« Reply #18 on: July 20, 2010, 11:15:25 PM »

The way I see it, Jamieson was tugging Kyle Major back. Jamieson protected the rail to deter outside horses -- 7, 8, 10 all showed early interest. Laid back in the bike by 3/8. This horse could not get shut down in the pocket. To my novice eye, it looked like Jamieson choked down on Kyle Major when over Campbell's helmet after he had cleared and that's when he started to drop back.

Rock N Roll Heaven was forced wide by Rockin Image and was difficult to straighten around the turn and then was forced to drive on when Rockin Image and Gingras protected the 3 hole.

It's a horse race for a million. Shit happens. See going 3 wide down the backstretch in 2008 and losing at the line.
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kingofpain
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« Reply #19 on: July 21, 2010, 12:06:35 AM »

If you think Jody drove a good race then you are completely clueless.....He finished last......You act like you're not supposed to let the favorite win (and if youre driving a competitive horse youre not) but to completely compromise a legitimate horses chances with a horse that obviously had no chance is 5 times as bad.....If he turns Campbell loose early Yannick might move and the whole race could have been different.....No guarantee Saunders horse would have won anyway......But theres no defense for Jody's drive and you wouldnt get one other driver to say he drove a good race......Except maybe Brandon Simpson
Kyle Major has beaten Campbells horse before! Look at the 1st Quarter of the race again, Jody was right on Campbells helmet trying to control Kyle Major. Like someone else said he may have choked him down. Saying it was a bad drive after the fact is always the easiest thing to do. Saunders though should keep his mouth shut! Horse Races all most always never go according to plan. One More Laugh finally got a good trip and won the race! Sorry Bruce, quit your Bit**in and move on!
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race track phil
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« Reply #20 on: July 21, 2010, 03:51:10 AM »


      I can understand Saunders being upset , but I actually think Jamisons horse was kind of uncontrolable once that gate opened and that's because I refuse to believe that a good driver like Jamison could be that stupid !!  This horse surely hasn't been very good of late and should have been thinking about a good check in a million dollar race . The think that does bother me was he said in an interview they will have to catch me and if that was their plan ??  IT WAS JUST PLAIN DUMB .

     We cannot read minds though .

     The sour grapes Saunders has expressed may come to haunt him , but it is crazy and I still understand his stance .


                                                 RTP
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knowitall
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« Reply #21 on: July 21, 2010, 04:22:27 AM »

Kyle Major was out of gas his last 2 starts and was showing a downward trend against these caliber horses.

What ever Jody's plan was he obviously can't read a program and/or he had reason to believe the gas tank would be FULL this time.

If you want to be the next John Campbell you can't look like a fool in the bike in the sport's top races!

No excuses!
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bettor2belucky
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« Reply #22 on: July 21, 2010, 06:05:22 AM »

Saunders is a trainer...one of the best. And unlike some big names, "managers" I call them...he sits behind his stock everyday. He works, he puts sweat into his opetation.

I don't know of any trainers who wouldn't be livid if this happened to them in a 10 claimer, let alone the Meadowlands Pace. It would be another story if that longshot ended up crushing, but it finished LAST.

Saunders came out and said how he felt, not sugar coating his take for the sensitive types who might be offended or appalled.
well said and very true........
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VicD
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« Reply #23 on: July 21, 2010, 06:49:19 AM »

So let's see....
Saunders REALLY wanted to win the race for Mr. Bellino. It was the biggest race of his life, and the sports aging king was the driver...
Sounds like 3 reasons for Jamieson and the rest of the field to roll over.
What should JJ have done? Take back to 5th in the first turn?
Would Saunders have been happier if the 1st Q was in 28?
It's still a million they raced for, and I never saw a race for that money that was handed to anyone..
You could see Jamieson wrestling with his horse down the backstretch..Maybe he should have made a left turn into the infield to let the king by, and then Saunders would be happy..
I'm not a big fan of "If this had not happened, then that would have happened."
No courtesy tucks for a million..
Mr. Saunders, please shut up and take it like a man..
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OTB
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« Reply #24 on: July 21, 2010, 07:30:28 AM »

If Saunders was sooo upset that he got parked to the quarter, he could have nipped the situation in the bud and chose the rail, not the 3 hole.

JJ had little control of that horse in the 1st quarter, give me a break saunders. too much whining in this sport

Right on the money.
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HarnessFanDE
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« Reply #25 on: July 21, 2010, 08:08:03 AM »

If Saunders was sooo upset that he got parked to the quarter, he could have nipped the situation in the bud and chose the rail, not the 3 hole.

JJ had little control of that horse in the 1st quarter, give me a break saunders. too much whining in this sport

C'Mon TK I used to be able to count on you as one of like 3 people that had a clue on here......You really think Jody drove good? Gave HIS horse the best chance he could to get money......Believe it or not thats what he is paid to do.....Sometimes its right not to try to win.......Like when you can pick up 120k for finishing 3rd.......If JJ (as you call him) can't hold a horse in 25 seconds......Maybe he should hit the weight room......I didnt think you were one of these people who could be fooled by the ol Im choking my horse in 25 seconds move.....And choose the 1 hole?......come on....Weren't you one of my allies in burying Brandon Simpson for still the most ridiculous drive ever in that 300k race at Yonkers?.....and he was only 12-1 and not even parking the favorite......A little consistency please
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SHOWTIME!!!
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« Reply #26 on: July 21, 2010, 08:31:33 AM »

I never said JJ drove good, I call him that to save time typing..go back through my posts, TT, GB, BS, horses FA, SG, everyone knows who im speaking of.

After watching the replay again, I see the same thing, JJ trying to get the horse to settle down and he couldnt. Its very clear to me he was not trying to go 25 to the quarter, sting the favorite, then head-butt JC down the entire backside. If want to say JJ is not physically strong enough to handle the horse, maybe you are right, however, was that plan intentional? no friggin way

as far as the 1 hole comment, ill explain again..i think the rail at the meds is a terrible, terrible post. However, the point is that Saunders had the chance to insure he was not getting parked in he first quarter and take the rail, did he not? they thought the 3 hole was the absolute best post and as it turns out, it was not. who is to blame for picking the 3 hole? saunders had nothing to do with that? When they saw Kyle Major drew the 1, why not revise your strategy thinking this horse may leave like a rocket..again? is it because you just thought he wouldnt leave hard, again, because you have the favorite and you are leaving? doesnt work like that. its not your fault you left knowing how much speed KM has inside of you?

its just sickening that hes *** to a reporter now and to JJ after the race. so unprofessional

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swoopdaddy
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« Reply #27 on: July 21, 2010, 09:05:40 AM »

i dint know why everybody is putting this on jody when it was shawn robinson  who changed his gear around. new driving bit and overcheck bit. the trainer made a change he thought would help. it didn't. its not all on jody. he was just a passenger. some of you on here think you can shut these horses off and on like a light switch. not true. get one fired up and try to get him backed off, you will find its easier said then done.
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Robat
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« Reply #28 on: July 21, 2010, 09:13:03 AM »

A long time ago (50 years)  a driver told me  " more races are lost in the first 1/4 than in the last"..   Guess it is still true today Huh?

Had that been a 5-1 or greater sitting on the outside, none of this would be written... OR...Campbell parking JJ.......
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Joe B
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« Reply #29 on: July 21, 2010, 09:16:21 AM »

Like Race Track Phil points out...didn't Campbell and connections say before the race "They're gonna have to catch me??".....Turns out the headstrong horse that drew the rail who JJ drove to secure a pocket and couldn't get to settle cost Campbell and Saunders and RRH the race....Driving strategy is a huge factor in every race and Campbell's strategy turned out to be the wrong one....it's part of racing !  I also wonder if Campbell would have used him just a tad less in his eliminator, if he might have had just a bit more left in him in the final???  Anyhow....great thread...enjoyable to hear some knowledgeable fans' opinions on a great race....Joe B
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Claiming King
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« Reply #30 on: July 21, 2010, 10:12:09 AM »

The rail at the Meadowlands is only a death trap if you're going to take a shuffle. If Saunders and Campbell had a plan to go hell bent out of there all along, they probably should have taken the one hole. It's not like anyone had the speed to get around him from there.
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captain cash
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« Reply #31 on: July 21, 2010, 12:29:05 PM »

   Didn't Brian Sears and muscle hill win the HAMBO by wiring them from the rail? Jody DID make a comment BEFORE the race about going to go hard [or something like that] out of there. Thats probably why Bruce is pissed he probably heard jody say it.
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race track phil
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« Reply #32 on: July 21, 2010, 12:49:21 PM »

Like Race Track Phil points out...didn't Campbell and connections say before the race "They're gonna have to catch me??".....Turns out the headstrong horse that drew the rail who JJ drove to secure a pocket and couldn't get to settle cost Campbell and Saunders and RRH the race....Driving strategy is a huge factor in every race and Campbell's strategy turned out to be the wrong one....it's part of racing !  I also wonder if Campbell would have used him just a tad less in his eliminator, if he might have had just a bit more left in him in the final???  Anyhow....great thread...enjoyable to hear some knowledgeable fans' opinions on a great race....Joe B

         Joe B        I have to correct you , I said Jody was interviewed saying they will have to catch me , and maybe Campbell & Saunders missed the interview

                                                RTP

           Its just racing and funny things happen !
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MWG
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« Reply #33 on: July 21, 2010, 07:44:31 PM »

On the "In The Sulky" segment from M1 tonite prior to the races, both Tim Tetrick and Sam McKee agreed that Jamieson was unable to control Kyle Major in the race; couldn't get the horse to yield to Campbell and once Campbell, finally, cleared, Kyle Major damn near ran up the back of Campbell, Jamieson fighting him all the way. I'm not a Jamieson fan, far from it, but I'll accept the opinions of Tetrick and McKee.
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JuiceJunkies
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« Reply #34 on: July 21, 2010, 07:53:05 PM »

DOES ANYONE REMEMBER DALI AND JODY LAST YEAR HERE?   SAME STORY JODY COULD NOT WRESTLE THEM DOWN AND WOULD GO ABSURD 1ST QUARTERS AND TIRE QUICKLY.   DOES DISTANCE FROM THE NORTH POLE DEPICT SPEED?

MAYBE ITS THE JUICE...AFTERALL IS WAS ROBINSON.
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« Reply #35 on: July 21, 2010, 10:31:27 PM »

Hey All,

Ray Scnittker selected the rail for Deweycheatumnhowse. Brian Sears/Greg Peck         selected thwe rail for Muscle Hill. Both were the best-in-breed for the Hambo. Anjd guess what, they werer right!

Bruce is a goood trainer and a good guy. However, he should look in  the mirror before pointing fingers. If he thought he was the best, why did he pick #3.

JJ did was he was paid to do; take advantage of the rail position. He had nothing against Campbell or his horse. He drove him like he had to.
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Joe B
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« Reply #36 on: July 22, 2010, 01:23:08 PM »

         Joe B        I have to correct you , I said Jody was interviewed saying they will have to catch me , and maybe Campbell & Saunders missed the interview

                                                RTP

           Its just racing and funny things happen !

If JJ said in an interview he was going down the highway and wanted the lead in here then he is a lot dumber than I thought....RTP thanks for the info....Joe B
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« Reply #37 on: July 22, 2010, 01:29:38 PM »

  Wouldn't be unusual for a driver to state that hoping to make the others think twice about leaving.  Happens all the time.  If it works, great;  if not you adapt accordingly.
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« Reply #38 on: July 23, 2010, 03:17:14 PM »

Picking post 3 was not taking into consideration the nature of how harness racing has changed at M since 1976. Back in the day, you needed to conserve some horse and kick home. Now, these races are effectively 3 furlong sprints, horses of this calibre dont get tired. The reason a trainer would NOT have selected post 1 back in the day is because he doesn't want to have to 'park the field' the entire mile. Now, these horses are so good at this level, he could have turned the stick over on the field and still won. Campbell's horse got used as hard as any horse in the history of this race has been used and still almost won. If he had post 1 and was used just as hard to park the field, he wins easy because of the ground he saved on turn 1. The race was lost when post 3 was selected, that was at 125k error.
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« Reply #39 on: July 26, 2010, 12:30:34 PM »

If his horse was as good as he says he would not break or curl up like he did in the pace.  I know Kyle major was 50-1 but read a program he blasts every week.  After the first race Jameison said he was blasting.  See what happens when you get outside drivers in races there are no holes. 
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« Reply #40 on: July 27, 2010, 03:00:38 AM »

   Didn't Brian Sears and muscle hill win the HAMBO by wiring them from the rail? Jody DID make a comment BEFORE the race about going to go hard [or something like that] out of there. Thats probably why Bruce is pissed he probably heard jody say it.

Muscle Hill is a trotter. I think the rail is more valuable for trotters.
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