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Author Topic: 10th at Hawthorne today a joke  (Read 2716 times)
APCD Dan
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« on: November 05, 2005, 08:37:51 PM »

Why do they schedule a turf race at the end of the card when it is dark?  Do the lights reach the turf track that well?  Apparently with the wet weather, the jockeys did not want to ride on the good, old Hawthorne turf anyway.   Why did it take so long for them to listen to the jocks and take it off the turf?  Why did it take so long again before they loaded the horses in the gate?  They just went round and round before they finally went off.  People didn't need all that time to change their tickets.  The 10th must have taken 40 minutes to run.

The track was speed until it got a little wet, then the closers started coming in, then speed was back in the 10th.  Terry's juicy prices were there for the few who had them.  Just another day at Hawthorne! 
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Horse Voice
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« Reply #1 on: November 05, 2005, 09:43:49 PM »

Do the lights "reach the turf"?

I'm going to ignore this incredibly retarded question, except to point out that the Hawthorne bashers (of which Dan is the president) will be back in about two weeks complaining that there is *no* turf racing.

Races get taken off the turf in inclement weather. Jockeys debate whether to ride on turf or not (or at all) in inclement weather. This is a smart debate to have. The bettor will just have to wait.

Your assessment of the track at Hawthorne -- speed-types early, closers later, "then speed was back in the 10th" -- tells me why you don't win at Hawthorne (which is a fair assumption, since you are out here griping about the place so often).

Golden Alphabet got the easiest of leads in slow time in the 10th race, looked like she was beat heading down the stretch, but had enough left in the tank to win. This can happen even on a completely  back track --  any time someone gets loose on the lead with no pressure.

If you hate Hawthorne so much, Dan, why don't you play Churchill and help your beloved stock in the process? Pretty easy there today, eh, with eleven races of ALL 2 year-olds? Any complaints about Churchill's card, Dan? Nah...

 
 
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CLOCKERTERRY
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« Reply #2 on: November 05, 2005, 10:11:50 PM »

Your assessment of the track at Hawthorne -- speed-types early, closers later, "then speed was back in the 10th" -- tells me why you don't win at Hawthorne (which is a fair assumption, since you are out here griping about the place so often).

It was always my opinion that different races were won differently due to the pace makeup of the race, while any perceived "bias" stayed fairly constant through the day, unless something happened during the card to change the track surface, like maybe rain.

And that you couldn't really even tell if there was any kind of bias, unless you did a careful analysis after the fact of how horses did in the light of the pace scenario versus what might have been expected under that scenario if indeed it even unfolded like it should on pape. And then, and only then, you might see if they (more than one horse) did something they should not have done, like run on bravely in front when they should have died, or die on the front to let closers get up when they should not have died, or something favoring "on the rail", or maybe "not on the rail", and so on and so forth.

Did you do all that analysis, Dan? In the context of a "connections" betting system? Or is my idea of how one determines whether or not a bias really existed and affected the races all wrong?
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Thomas Graham
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« Reply #3 on: November 06, 2005, 03:28:18 AM »

Dan asks why does Hawthorne card grass races near the end of the card? 

Simple -- generally full fields, the East coast tracks are done, generally MUCH more money wagered later in the card at both AP and HAW and yes, the new lights illuminate the turf course quite well.

Wasn't there Saturday or even paying much attention but it's SOP this time of year that there will be debate between jocks and management on "questionable" days --- i.e. it's not a slam dunk to be on or off.  99 times out of 100, the jocks win the argument.

I noticed that they have been a little more conservative in the use of the turf this Fall (I was surprised they were "off" last Wednesday) and I'm guessing that's to keep it usable until Thanksgiving and have some turf left on it to race in April 2006 to avoid a repeat of what happened there the last week of the Spring meet.
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APCD Dan
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« Reply #4 on: November 06, 2005, 02:11:11 PM »

Hey, Hawthorne Voice, my retarded question was how "well" do the lights reach the turf course since there is not that much turf racing under the lights.  Also, if the conditions on the turf are not that good, the switch to dirt should have been made immediately or ahead of time.  The extension of time on that race was ridiculous, especially when they added to the time by going round and round before they went into the gate.  Forty minutes to run one race?  Good thing it was followed by a super quick quarter horse race.

Terry, my connections system that you like to refer to, does not work well when the track tends to have a speed bias.  Then you go with speed horses with jockeys that can get out of the gate fast and watch the train go around the track.  The weather did seem to take the bias out of the track, though.

I will be betting at Churchill, I just did not like the all 2 year old diet of racing either.  It sure was interesting looking at the quaility of pedigrees, trainers, and owners of horses there.  Then flip the page back to Hawthorne and . . , oh well, that's Hawthorne where a 4 million BC race is followed by a 4K claiming race.

Don't worry, Hawthorne choir, the way God is destroying Churchill tracks, Hawthorne will be the only one left.  Carey must have good connections with the big guy.  The races are about to start today, better hurry!
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Thomas Graham
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« Reply #5 on: November 06, 2005, 02:31:56 PM »

Geez Dan, you are growing more-and-more bitter with each post. 

I am not a Hawthorne apologist, and I genuinely do prefer Arlington, but for goodness sakes --- lighten up.

The same turf-no-turf battles go on from coast to coast once the weather gets "iffy", and then extend it to dirt racing in the winter months --- I can't even count the number of delays at AQU in January (or the pre-Polytrack TP) where you run the first, there's a big delay while the track crew works the track, they come out for the second like 30 minutes later, sometimes they run it, sometimes not, and then almost always the rest of the card is called.  But will we hear from ILOVEAPANDTHEYCANSTOMPONMECUZIGETINFREEDAN then?  I doubt it.

Life isn't as black-and-white as "AP=all that's right with the world" and "HAW=all that's evil.", and by the way, that works in reverse as well for all the AP-bashers out there.
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laurajean
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« Reply #6 on: November 06, 2005, 08:08:47 PM »

i just love hawthorne
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CLOCKERTERRY
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« Reply #7 on: November 06, 2005, 11:13:06 PM »

Also, if the conditions on the turf are not that good, the switch to dirt should have been made immediately or ahead of time.

From what I heard at the track today, the discussions about leaving the race on turf or taking it off began after the 7th and still were not resolved by post time of the 10th. The jocks finally refused to ride. Were you late for some swanky soiree' due to the extra time?

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I will be betting at Churchill, I just did not like the all 2 year old diet of racing either.  It sure was interesting looking at the quaility of pedigrees, trainers, and owners of horses there.  Then flip the page back to Hawthorne and . . , oh well, that's Hawthorne where a 4 million BC race is followed by a 4K claiming race.

Is that not a familiar routine from the summer, look at the Saratoga page, then flip back to Arlington, and  ... oh well?
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CLOCKERTERRY
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« Reply #8 on: November 06, 2005, 11:14:53 PM »

i just love hawthorne

Where did you end up in the contest today? I turned in my selection for the 9th and left.

(For those reading along at home, laurajean was near the top of the contest standings most of the day.)
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laurajean
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« Reply #9 on: November 07, 2005, 08:34:26 AM »

I won. bet the 3 horse lunasea to the max (1,135 across the board) if I had bet 1,000 across the board I would have been in 2nd place. Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy  now I have to gush and flit around the house some more. Maybe I will even be giddy. Grin Grin Grin
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CLOCKERTERRY
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« Reply #10 on: November 07, 2005, 11:58:02 AM »

I won. bet the 3 horse lunasea to the max (1,135 across the board) if I had bet 1,000 across the board I would have been in 2nd place. Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy  now I have to gush and flit around the house some more. Maybe I will even be giddy. Grin Grin Grin

Congratulations! Now you have to hang onto that lead one more week and win the really big $$$ !
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APCD Dan
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« Reply #11 on: November 07, 2005, 03:32:27 PM »

>>>From what I heard at the track today, the discussions about leaving the race on turf or taking it off began after the 7th and still were not resolved by post time of the 10th. The jocks finally refused to ride. Were you late for some swanky soiree' due to the extra time?<<<

No, I was tired, was losing, suffering from the smoke at Trackside, and had a headache from betting Hawthorne all day.  I just wanted to go home and should have passed on that race because it turned into some kind of magical mystery tour.  I also should have stayed with my connections theory and bet Block.
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Horse Voice
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« Reply #12 on: November 07, 2005, 09:00:50 PM »

I...had a headache from betting Hawthorne all day.

I don't get this, Dan: it's inherently obvious to even the most casual observer of this forum thay you do not like Hawthorne. So why would you bet into that sort of disadvantage (a HUGE disadvantage, IMO)?

I can't figure out Calder for the life of me. Can't cash a ticket there. That made me hate the track, so I stopped betting it. There's like, 10 other tracks to play, so I stopped torturing myself with the ones whose racing doesn't make sense to me.

I am not ridiculing you here, Dan, I swear to it. But I am a little confused. Are you just that loyal to the local horsemen?

Seriously -- play a Churchill track, and say to yourself, "even if I lose a few bucks, at least I'm helping the stock -- my stock". Might help get the attitude back over to the winning side of the ledger.

True story: I used to *** endlessly about ATM fees and other bank fees. Always harped on them. People rolled their eyes whenever the discussion turned to banks, because they knew I would go off on a rant. During one particular rant, my Dad -- a pretty shrewd investor -- said, "Why don't you buy some bank stocks and get in on the action?" I took his advice, bought some Northern Trust, First Oak Brook Bank, a few others, and wonder of wonders, it's been years since I've said a peep about bank fees. Wink
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APCD Dan
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« Reply #13 on: November 07, 2005, 11:56:23 PM »


I am not ridiculing you here, Dan, I swear to it. But I am a little confused. Are you just that loyal to the local horsemen?

Seriously -- play a Churchill track, and say to yourself, "even if I lose a few bucks, at least I'm helping the stock -- my stock". Might help get the attitude back over to the winning side of the ledger.


Yes, I am loyal to the local horsemen.  Got to know many of them at the paddock at Arlington.  I like to follow their horses.

Yes, I will be playing Churchill.  I did not like the 2 year old card last Saturday, although it brought in a huge handle for Churchill so it will become a yearly fixture.  About the only good thing to happen to Churchill the last few months.
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CLOCKERbiggestal
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« Reply #14 on: November 08, 2005, 09:55:51 AM »

Yes, I am loyal to the local horsemen.  Got to know many of them at the paddock at Arlington.  I like to follow their horses.

Yes, I will be playing Churchill.  I did not like the 2 year old card last Saturday, although it brought in a huge handle for Churchill so it will become a yearly fixture.  About the only good thing to happen to Churchill the last few months.


wow. and I loved it. Different strokes..... those twos year old s just whet my appiteate for the triple crown chase beginning in two months ago..... Terry contest...not to mention the money made betting on selected Qualities... Grin
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Kickers beat one-pacers almost every time.
g3tPWNed_24
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« Reply #15 on: November 08, 2005, 03:08:15 PM »

rule#1 around here dan never say anything negative about the"almighty hawthorne" or youll have a a$$ load of people jumping down your throat, LOL thought youd know better by now
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