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Author Topic: Youngs Tower Update  (Read 6421 times)
rpb
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« on: March 22, 2006, 06:52:40 PM »

Goodbye Big M. and E. Miller. Entered at Northville Downs on 3/24.
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Dan Nance
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« Reply #1 on: March 22, 2006, 06:58:02 PM »

Goodbye Big M. and E. Miller. Entered at Northville Downs on 3/24.

I'd sell the mare before I would race her at a 4th class track like Northville Downs.

    That is too nice a mare to race at bush league tracks unless she broken down.
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emp
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« Reply #2 on: March 22, 2006, 08:05:32 PM »

I've met this mare once before when she was getting better and better. She's got the demeanor of a colt and is real relaxed but has a real positive albiet strong attitude.

Since Erv got her at the Big M, my theory is he utilized her in the big races with Loyal Opposition (who is baaaaaaack) as well as Restive Hanover (we've all seen and talked about Brennan's tucking and ducking).... In return, he probably found some glithes in her here and there with his arsenal of trainers and probably did some blood work and vet work as well. Fair business deal in everyone's eyes, except those 'in the know'.

Again she's a nice mare and well taken care of in Michigan, actually very well taken care of. She feels most comfortable in Michigan as she grew up on those tracks and is handled nicely by Goodell and Art McIllmurray IV (sp?). Goodell is the choice on this mare.

The race she's in on Friday placed her in the 7 post obviously by handicap. With the trip back to Michigan from the Big M she may need this start..... OR if you see her firing from the gate on Friday you'll know that what was just said had happened and she's back on top of her game.

Personally I'd turn her out for 2-3 weeks and let her relax, but then again she does well in this weather (cool and crisp) so look out. She may be headed back to Woodbine for the bigger purses so this race at Northville may be a prep, she may also go to Hazel Park when they open mid-April..... These are all theories that could be spot on.

One thing for sure, if anyone payed close attention in her last race she had some knee boots with suspenders. This horse ALWAYS raced clean legged. Remember that last race when she out took the field for DEAD LAST? Hmmmmmmmmm
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rpb
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« Reply #3 on: March 22, 2006, 08:11:21 PM »

Hey emp,
I see your the latest new member on BTW, with 1 post.

What gives?
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emp
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« Reply #4 on: March 22, 2006, 08:32:35 PM »

http://www.thebigm.com/finishStripSm.asp?raceid=12118

You'd never know about the knee boots or suspenders unless you paid close attention the POST PARADE.... Can hardly see them in the replay as well as she was so faaaarrrrrrrr back from the rest of the field.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2006, 08:34:13 PM by emp » Report to moderator   Logged
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« Reply #5 on: March 22, 2006, 09:08:51 PM »

HMM, KNEE BOOTS ON A MARE THAT HAS NEVER HIT HER KNEES IN THE PAST ON A MILE TRACK?HuhHuhHuh?


It sure sounds like un soundness to me!!! My guess would be-- here is a very nice mare that was being raced A LITTLE OVER HER HEAD acquiring what happens when pushed to far, soreness if not lameness.

As far as her going to her knees-- the first place I would look would be feet! then ovaries on that mare. And hope to find it!


Dan,you know I respect your opinion but  I disagree with you to a certain point. I think that emp has the best idea, give her a couple of weeks off, then put her in against a couple of low level mares for her to beat the shit out of. Once confidence is back go back at a notch below loyal and restive hanover type mares. She would make a killing!

But, unless she is sound I would stay home period until she was!

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emp
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« Reply #6 on: March 22, 2006, 09:16:43 PM »

Thanks Dustin.....

Remember one thing, I don't know anything..... but HEEDE knows!

The ovaries theory is another story, I'd guess some kind of estrogen or testosterone supplements did that trick.... but very nice observation.

Feet, again no worries, she's built like a tank and has VERY nice legs and especially feet. Ask ROLLINSMOLIN..... he knows her pretty well too but he's racing tonite. Hopefully he'll post something here or there.

I'm kinda concerned for her and am eager to see her race on Friday. Maybe EW can create a www.youtube.com link of the race for us to all see and thus analyze.....

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BunnyLake
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« Reply #7 on: March 22, 2006, 09:38:51 PM »

Get confidence and go back to M1 a notch below Restive Hanover and Loyal Opposition? "She would make a killing!" Holy Hanna is all I can say about that one. 

Youngs Tower was entered at NW12500 (just a few notches below Restive and Loyal) and couldn't win at M1 when, according to this board, she was in shape and "stiffed" by Brennan the week before. I will give her credit that she cut some nice fractions and made two moves through those fractions, but let's get real here. Enter her in $40k or $50k claimers, try to get something back, and let's move on. The mare is at Northville now for crying out loud.
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« Reply #8 on: March 22, 2006, 09:42:46 PM »

emp

I would have no idea, unless I seen her and sat behind her ( and maybe not even then). But anytime, any horse I have ever had went to there knees for no reason, especially a mare, those were  what caused it!

please keep me informed, I would be very interested in learning exactly what put knee boots and suspenders on her.

P.s. It is Dave not Dustin
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emp
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« Reply #9 on: March 22, 2006, 09:47:07 PM »

She was a private purchase for around the above price mentioned BunnyLake and she's worth alot more as a BROODMARE. Check how deep her lines aka her breeding go down and you'll see some nice mares on both sides as well as sires....
http://pathway.ustrotting.com/search/index.cfm?action=result&horse_id=807113
http://pathway.ustrotting.com/search/index.cfm?action=result&horse_id=78533
http://pathway.ustrotting.com/search/index.cfm?action=result&horse_id=209623
http://pathway.ustrotting.com/search/index.cfm?action=result&horse_id=626583

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njhorseman
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« Reply #10 on: March 22, 2006, 09:47:34 PM »

I'd sell the mare before I would race her at a 4th class track like Northville Downs.

    That is too nice a mare to race at bush league tracks unless she broken down.


Dan:

She's a nice mare, but with no disrespect to her or her owners, my recollection is that her success has primarily been at the "bush league" tracks.
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« Reply #11 on: March 22, 2006, 09:55:52 PM »

Bunny lake


Not looking for a fight, but what the hell.

I dont know whether you ever tried to make a living racing horses or not, but  I do know I have.

Does that make me an expert, NO!

But IMO, when any horse gets the shit beat out of them, ( like she did) whether the best in the country or a cheap claimer, it does nothing but starts a down hill cycle!

I did not say take her back to the big m.  By the way what exactly is the difference time and class wise between the top there and two levels down??? A second or two??

P.s. I never said at any time she was stiffed by Brennan, the only thing I said was what a bone head decision to open a hole for lo and then not follow her!! Did I ever feel she could win, no but I did think she could of at least picked up a check!




 


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john
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« Reply #12 on: March 22, 2006, 10:16:59 PM »

you guys are all funny. shes beaten midnight jewel, won the matchmaker stakes, and beat other mares that are considered very nice. She beat horses never seeing the wood in Canada that made 300,000 last year.
Shes back in friday in the FM Open because she is not lame.
She will get another chance this year. There are horses for courses. By the same token horses that certain trainers get along with very well.
bunny lake and nj horseman, good luck to you, but you dont know a damn thing about her.
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emp
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« Reply #13 on: March 22, 2006, 10:19:20 PM »

Friday night's race will be interesting to see.... endurance, lameness and equipment wise. Also will she be leaving, tucking or coming 1st up....

Til Friday
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BunnyLake
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« Reply #14 on: March 22, 2006, 10:22:23 PM »

Everyone -
I know my posts are coming across as disrespectful to Youngs Tower, but I am not trying to be such.

I a perplexed, however, when I read people stating how good this mare is, how Brennan "tucked and ducked" her (Emp), how she should have gotten a check even though she was outclassed, and then I watch her go a few classes below Restive and Loyal and still get beat.

I understand a horse must have confidence when racing. I also understand that even with all of the confidence in the world a horse is only going to be able to compete effectively at a class that fits the horse's abilities.

Considering how much attention this mare is paid, I am only offering my opinion to the contrary. I wished the owners well in finding a class to race her at and the horse has surfaced at Northville. I think the horse is better than Northville stock, but do you think she should be entered in $75k claimers at the Big M?

One observation I have come to realize about the Big M...don't rely on final times to judge a horse's potential when comparing the upper echelon to the lower ranks. Heck, a $25k claimer can run identical fractions to a $30k or $40k claimer, but when you move the $25k claimer up the results are usually not that good. The scenario gets worse the higher you move up through the ranks.  

Good luck to you John. I hope the year turns around and Youngs Tower comes back strong.



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edwardwilliam
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« Reply #15 on: March 22, 2006, 10:27:16 PM »

Everyone -
I know my posts are coming across as disrespectful to Youngs Tower, but I am not trying to be such.

I a perplexed, however, when I read people stating how good this mare is, how Brennan "tucked and ducked" her (Emp), how she should have gotten a check even though she was outclassed, and then I watch her go a few classes below Restive and Loyal and still get beat.

I understand a horse must have confidence when racing. I also understand that even with all of the confidence in the world a horse is only going to be able to compete effectively at a class that fits the horse's abilities.

Considering how much attention this mare is paid, I am only offering my opinion to the contrary. I wished the owners well in finding a class to race her at and the horse has surfaced at Northville. I think the horse is better than Northville stock, but do you think she should be entered in $75k claimers at the Big M?

One observation I have come to realize about the Big M...don't rely on final times to judge a horse's potential when comparing the upper echelon to the lower ranks. Heck, a $25k claimer can run identical fractions to a $30k or $40k claimer, but when you move the $25k claimer up the results are usually not that good. The scenario gets worse the higher you move up through the ranks.   

Good luck to you John. I hope the year turns around and Youngs Tower comes back strong.



I think this is a fair post.

She's a tough mare, but I'm just not sure she can race her style (some sort of grinding trip) off the Big M fractions.  If she gets going in Michigan again, Canada is probably the best bet for her.  Keeps her closer to her preferred connections, and I think that 7/8ths fits her a little better.

If another Eastern trip is on the docket, I'd give a smaller stable a shot -- someone that can "love" on her a little more.  What about Scott Rollins of John Drew fame?

Best,
EW
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« Reply #16 on: March 22, 2006, 11:09:21 PM »

Bunny lake

I didnt see her last two outings, I was out of town the last couple of weeks on business. I only responded to this post because of a statement made by several that she was done and that she was wareing knee boots and obviously going to her knees ( because of the suspenders).

I was only commenting on what I have expierenced in the past with the mares I have raced and owned!

As far as a notch below, Doesnt mean at the big M. If she was mine, I would be looking for the easiest ( if there is such a thing anymore) field I could find. That is just my opinion!




Ew-- You are correct she is a hard hitting mare. And I totally agree with the whole smaller stable thing. Not to take anything away from erv, I think the guy does a phenomeonal job with the size of his barn. But horses sometimes do not react very well in that system.


John

No doubt about it, you have a very nice mare. If she was lame I'm sure you wouldn't dream of racing her, but If all the sudden she is going to her knees, shouldn't someone wonder why?




 

 
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john
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« Reply #17 on: March 23, 2006, 07:49:53 AM »

Bunny Lake, you have never been disrespectful, and been very accurate whether its my horses or others. You truly are a pleasure to read. Your comments on my horse have never been negative but your opinion, and for the most part, right. I appplaud you and wish you the best of luck.
What I find interesting with mares is how they could be great at one track and sulk at another track.
We sent her to the Big M last winter and she sulked so bad she didnt even got to the gate at Freehold for one start. Different trainer. The only time she won with a different trainer was with Homer at Hawthorne winning the FM Open, FIRST OVER.
When she won at Raceway, Western Fair, Windsor, it was with Rebekah Swinko. Rebekah sees the horse every single day for many hours a day. At the Big M both times, I'm not sure the trainers saw the horse weekly at best.
The one thing I can argue with Bunny Lake is in the lower class at the Big M (fmnw 12500-6), she ended up racing the first time with 4 horses in the cape and cutter final. It looked like a lower class but ended up with horses in the highest class.
One thing I know for sure is she made it to the finals of the milton at less than 10-1 and she will be with the trainer that makes her happy. Milton, Roses are Red, and Fairy Godmother.
AGAIN, BUNNY LAKE, YOUR OPINIONS ARE VERY HIGHLY RESPECTED !!!!!!!
 
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tough business
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« Reply #18 on: March 23, 2006, 08:23:19 AM »

Hope that trainer is CUM!!

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off stride
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« Reply #19 on: March 23, 2006, 08:29:06 AM »

john , thanx for coming on btw and giving an owners opinion/analysis first hand on the ups and downs of the business, even with a great mare, the downs still happen and you handle them with grace.. good luck back at the 'downs' this weekend
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emp
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« Reply #20 on: March 23, 2006, 09:10:35 AM »

We sent her to the Big M last winter and she sulked so bad she didnt even got to the gate at Freehold for one start. Different trainer. The only time she won with a different trainer was with Homer at Hawthorne winning the FM Open, FIRST OVER.
When she won at Raceway, Western Fair, Windsor, it was with Rebekah Swinko. Rebekah sees the horse every single day for many hours a day. At the Big M both times, I'm not sure the trainers saw the horse weekly at best.

Goes to show how some horses DO much better with the smaller outfits as EW had mentioned earlier (even though HH has a ton of help).... bottom line is old-style rubbing and TLC still do play a vital role   in the care, training and overall well-being of any kind of horse. As Nate always says "if you take care of them they take care of you".


http://horsemansvoice.com/Publish%20Me!!!/Nierengarten,Nathanial%2004.pdf
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emp
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« Reply #21 on: March 23, 2006, 10:28:23 AM »

For all those asking about her hooves...... here ya go:
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emp
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« Reply #22 on: March 24, 2006, 08:37:36 PM »

Race coming up soon...... can EW provide a link of the race?
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off stride
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« Reply #23 on: March 24, 2006, 10:38:58 PM »

a winner , welcome back  youngs tower
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emp
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« Reply #24 on: March 24, 2006, 10:51:54 PM »

Does someone have a link for the results? Did she race 1st up like she loves at NV Downs? Video feeds?
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