Chicago Barn to Wire BRIS
Home | News | Bloggers | Forums | Resources | Links | Marketplace | Gallery | Contact Us | Search


September 17, 2014, 02:40:45 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: If you don't remember your password, email me.

New  registration procedures -- Some ISPs have been bouncing the verification emails.  Please email me to be activated or if you have any problems.  Click Contact Us above.
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register  
Pages: [1]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: DROPPING LIKE FLIES  (Read 1342 times)
off stride
Guest

« on: March 22, 2006, 01:02:39 PM »

upset then disqualified winner of the fountain of youth stakes.. corinthian .. has dropped out of the kentucky derby picture due to a hairline fracture of his ankle
Report to moderator   Logged
Round Table
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2845

And then I saw her, coming out of the sun.




Ignore
« Reply #1 on: March 22, 2006, 01:09:08 PM »

upset then disqualified winner of the fountain of youth stakes.. corinthian .. has dropped out of the kentucky derby picture due to a hairline fracture of his ankle

Yeah, but they don't make 'em like they used to. Problem with these fractures is horses stand god chance of developing arthuritis after the repair.

Report to moderator   Logged

They ought to return to Tampa and fix the mistake they made.
BeauNarro
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2800

Don't look a gift horse in the mouth.....


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #2 on: March 22, 2006, 01:42:28 PM »

That's why they are now trying to stress OUTCROSSING rather than INBREEDING. For the last 4 decades owners/breeders have inbred closer and closer. I believe that is a big part of the current thoroughbred being so much more fragile.
Report to moderator   Logged
Round Table
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2845

And then I saw her, coming out of the sun.




Ignore
« Reply #3 on: March 22, 2006, 01:56:48 PM »

That's why they are now trying to stress OUTCROSSING rather than INBREEDING. For the last 4 decades owners/breeders have inbred closer and closer. I believe that is a big part of the current thoroughbred being so much more fragile.

Outcrossing won't help. 5000 lbs/squarein pressure on a knee joint will bust your bones. No sport puts more pressure on an athlete's mechanics except maybe deadweightlifting. That's the problem with speed. Put more weight on em, do the jock's a favor, stretch em out and slow em down a bit. Sorry, you b*yer f*cks, relurn the game. Today's horses blow.
Report to moderator   Logged

They ought to return to Tampa and fix the mistake they made.
big wally
Guest

« Reply #4 on: March 22, 2006, 02:01:43 PM »

That's why they are now trying to stress OUTCROSSING rather than INBREEDING. For the last 4 decades owners/breeders have inbred closer and closer. I believe that is a big part of the current thoroughbred being so much more fragile.

They are breeding for speed rather than endurance and durability. There are a lot less distance races than there used to be. All these problems may be linked to Mr. Prospector who was fast and had a very short career. Trainers now gun their two year olds rather than waiting on them, Lukas also changed the game with his training style. Just a few thoughts
Report to moderator   Logged
CLOCKERbiggestal
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1415




Ignore
« Reply #5 on: March 22, 2006, 03:41:42 PM »

That's why they are now trying to stress OUTCROSSING rather than INBREEDING. For the last 4 decades owners/breeders have inbred closer and closer. I believe that is a big part of the current thoroughbred being so much more fragile.

Inbreeding to Mr Prospector is a bad thing, I saw a 2 x 3 Mr P. race on Saturday at Hawthorne.

Terrible inbreeding to Mr Prospector and an ill bred to boot.
Report to moderator   Logged

Kickers beat one-pacers almost every time.
CLOCKERbiggestal
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1415




Ignore
« Reply #6 on: March 22, 2006, 03:45:53 PM »

Outcrossing won't help. 5000 lbs/squarein pressure on a knee joint will bust your bones. No sport puts more pressure on an athlete's mechanics except maybe deadweightlifting. That's the problem with speed. Put more weight on em, do the jock's a favor, stretch em out and slow em down a bit. Sorry, you b*yer f*cks, relurn the game. Today's horses blow.

Outcrossing won't help? I guess they haven't told the TB steeplechase horses in Europe that fact.

They regularly race 2 mile and way more. and they race quite often.

Here's a hint no mr P in steeplechase horses. **LOL**  dude
Report to moderator   Logged

Kickers beat one-pacers almost every time.
Round Table
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2845

And then I saw her, coming out of the sun.




Ignore
« Reply #7 on: March 22, 2006, 04:17:17 PM »

Steeplechasing is physically different on a horse than going 5 around a turn in 59 on the flat or incurring rapid bursts of interval acceleration. When a horse sprints, it doesn't breath or burn oxygen, it is racing on pure glycogen fuel. A horse with larger bones and tougher, thicker tendons will not race as fast due to the excess weight. Todays horses are built for speed and that means lightweight "pendulums" aka legs. A nice racehorse, that is a speedball, is thin-boned. Many vets feel thoroughbreds are fighting diminishing returns. Others think drugs might be a solution which is why KY is a big supporter of equine pharmaceutical testing and experimentation.
Report to moderator   Logged

They ought to return to Tampa and fix the mistake they made.
Jim C
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1403




Ignore
« Reply #8 on: March 23, 2006, 02:13:25 AM »

One of the big reasons so many 3 year olds get hurt is due to the ridiculous amount of pushing on them as yearlings getting ready for the 2 yr old sales many of which at sale time are not even 2 yet in real time. Add the silly amount of racing many of the 2 yr olds are put through and its no wonder so many breakdown!

If they want to lower the amount of breakdowns STOP TIMING THE 2 YEAR OLDS IN THE UNDER TACK PREVIEWS!!! Very rarely do any of those babies that work in 10.0 or 10.1 even make it to the races as 2 year olds anyway let alone do well if they do race at 2. Then follow that up with no stakes races for 2 yr olds until Oct. Hell Charlie Whittingham wouldn't even run his horses at 2! There is far too much attention paid to speed anymore on these animals and the fact that not many races are written anymore for longer distances only keeps that mindset going which only increases the problem.

Then the inbreeding problem (if you have a Storm Cat line mare good luck finding much of anything of quality to breed to that isn't from the Mr. Prospector line!) is just icing on the cake. We need more mares from Europe to help dilute the pedigrees in the US.
Report to moderator   Logged
APCD Dan
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 3762




Ignore
« Reply #9 on: March 23, 2006, 12:17:37 PM »

Nice post, Jim.  On another forum, we have been saying this for some time, but because we were not horsemen, our comments had no effect.  The pedigree people just seem to love the same studs over and over and cannot even consider an infusion of new blood, especially anything that does not have speed as the main factor.  As long as there are people willing to pay the incredible amounts of money that are being paid, I guess things will not change.
Report to moderator   Logged
Round Table
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2845

And then I saw her, coming out of the sun.




Ignore
« Reply #10 on: March 23, 2006, 02:56:59 PM »

Nice post, Jim.  On another forum, we have been saying this for some time, but because we were not horsemen, our comments had no effect.  The pedigree people just seem to love the same studs over and over and cannot even consider an infusion of new blood, especially anything that does not have speed as the main factor.  As long as there are people willing to pay the incredible amounts of money that are being paid, I guess things will not change.

Grow up, dan. Your comments will still have NO EFFECT. LOL.

You won't  be able to get them to go much faster. it's like hybridizing a black rose. No one's been able to do it. Or a squirrel that can benchpress a Cadillac. IT AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN.

The best thing would be to eliminate races under 1 mile. Stretch them out way further and also run them in heats. This was the way racing was conducted in early America. The breeding industry, especially those connected to big banks would scream bloody murder right to the halls of Congress. These breeders know they have a shit product. They know the horses are built to run faster than their bones will allow and they also know that they can no longer get them even a mile and a half within breaking down. So, the banks throw in more money to salvage investments that would go WAY south, if word got out. Additionally, are the vet bills which is GOLD - huge business. I'll bet you could find a $25000 claimer that could beat a $275,000 yearling purchase running long distance heats, easy.

Drugs, stem cell reserarch, polytracks, etc. are all attempts to hide the fact that the breed is for shit, that the bloodlines are for shit, and that the money coming in is dirty.

Do ya really think a horse today is worth $16.2MM. Look at the parties to the deal and tell me something else, some other "services" weren't being paid for, too.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2006, 03:28:17 PM by 7474505B » Report to moderator   Logged

They ought to return to Tampa and fix the mistake they made.
Jim C
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1403




Ignore
« Reply #11 on: March 23, 2006, 06:45:03 PM »

747, you say they cant get them to go much faster but they are in fact going faster. 2 years ago a horse that worked in a modest 11.0 flat was the norm and 10.4 was blazing fast. This past OBS sale if your horse went in 11.0 you may as well pull the horse from the sale cause you were not going to get what you wanted for it. 10.4 is now the norm and 10.2 or 10.1 will get you some interest. Two horses worked in 10 flat one went for a big number the other didn't because it did not vet.
The breeders are out to make as much as they can, cant blame them as for every one good one they sell they have to eat another 3 or more. They are only providing the product the customer wants and nothing more. If buyers were spending big money on plodders that can go a mile and a half then they would be breeding that kind of horse. Its the buyers I blame and then the tracks right behind them as they don't write distance races anymore.

Things change but this is one change that hopefully will move back a bit more towards the middle. As far as the guys who spent 16 million on a horse, those guys have more money then they know what to do with. All they have to do is pump a bit more oil and the horse is paid for, it was all ego in that sale one guy wasn't going to let the other guy have the horse and if he was going to get it he was going to have to pay for it, and he did.....who won? Let see how the horse does but my money is on the guy who bid him up and didn't get the horse!

One thing I will give Frank Stronach credit for, each year he has a sale of his own horses just before the OBS sale. usually about 100 head or so. Has a ton of food there and entertainment as well. ALL of the horses he sells ONLY BREEZE, no time, no works, just breeze on the dirt. The DVD you can get of the breeze that takes place a week or so before the sale has them breezing on BOTH the turf and the dirt. The best part is that ANY horse you buy from him can be returned NO QUESTIONS ASKED in 48 hrs. as long as the horse does not leave the grounds. That is the way to sell horses and he does a very good job of it too. Also any horse that does not sell will not be sold later, so if a horse is bought back, thats it, its no longer for sale until it races so there are no later buy back deals. In fact he even bought one back for 675,000.00 so he isn't selling just to sell and they are not his throw aways either. Remember you can return them within 48hrs. So much for everyone being greedy
Report to moderator   Logged
Round Table
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2845

And then I saw her, coming out of the sun.




Ignore
« Reply #12 on: March 24, 2006, 06:05:11 PM »

I am being very blunt here, I hope you don't mind.

747, you say they cant get them to go much faster but they are in fact going faster. 2 years ago a horse that worked in a modest 11.0 flat was the norm and 10.4 was blazing fast. This past OBS sale if your horse went in 11.0 you may as well pull the horse from the sale cause you were not going to get what you wanted for it. 10.4 is now the norm and 10.2 or 10.1 will get you some interest. Two horses worked in 10 flat one went for a big number the other didn't because it did not vet.

No, you MISSED the point. Sure, they can get them to go faster but they will only break down that much more often. That is because the BREED SUCKS and it is a shit product. They are "DROPPING IKE FLIES" and can't even take the strain of training, much less high-speed competition.

The breeders are out to make as much as they can, cant blame them as for every one good one they sell they have to eat another 3 or more. They are only providing the product the customer wants and nothing more. If buyers were spending big money on plodders that can go a mile and a half then they would be breeding that kind of horse. Its the buyers I blame and then the tracks right behind them as they don't write distance races anymore.

The shit product they sell requires a lot of window dressing. These guys are HOPING ultmately polytrack and the LABORATORY bail them out, because the breed is fragile, but as long as the buyer is convinced it is HIS fault the horse's vet's bills are through the roof or that the *** can't even race or even make training, then they won't have to worry.

Quote
Things change but this is one change that hopefully will move back a bit more towards the middle. As far as the guys who spent 16 million on a horse, those guys have more money then they know what to do with. All they have to do is pump a bit more oil and the horse is paid for, it was all ego in that sale one guy wasn't going to let the other guy have the horse and if he was going to get it he was going to have to pay for it, and he did.....who won? Let see how the horse does but my money is on the guy who bid him up and didn't get the horse!

What you witnessed there was not a "contest." These Maktoum's are businessmen. They do not care if Sheik Sayeb of Kuwait thinks Sheik Maktoum of Dubai's dick is the biggest in the Persian Gulf. That his horse is pricey. They know they have a shit product that can't take the stress put on them at the track. If whoever owns Coolmore needed an interest-free $16MM gift, he got it.

Quote
One thing I will give Frank Stronach credit for, each year he has a sale of his own horses just before the OBS sale. usually about 100 head or so. Has a ton of food there and entertainment as well. ALL of the horses he sells ONLY BREEZE, no time, no works, just breeze on the dirt. The DVD you can get of the breeze that takes place a week or so before the sale has them breezing on BOTH the turf and the dirt. The best part is that ANY horse you buy from him can be returned NO QUESTIONS ASKED in 48 hrs. as long as the horse does not leave the grounds. That is the way to sell horses and he does a very good job of it too. Also any horse that does not sell will not be sold later, so if a horse is bought back, thats it, its no longer for sale until it races so there are no later buy back deals. In fact he even bought one back for 675,000.00 so he isn't selling just to sell and they are not his throw aways either. Remember you can return them within 48hrs. So much for everyone being greedy

It doesn't matter how Frank sells his horses. Wine em and dine em, they are l shit horses that, for the most part, won't perform and won't take the pressure of racing or training.  It is not the horse's fault. He has unfortunately and unintentionally been bred to break down under the conditions he will be subjected to, high-speed traing and high-speed competition. The $675,000 was a REFUND, it didn't cost him anything and I'm sure the horse is racing regularly now, and repaying Frank with interest, the $675 large he had to forego. LOL.
Report to moderator   Logged

They ought to return to Tampa and fix the mistake they made.
Pages: [1]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.075 seconds with 16 queries.

Home
Upcoming events
Arlington Million
Horse slaughter in IL
Racing TV schedule
News Updates
Legislation

Galloping Out

Previous stories

Arlington
Balmoral
Hawthorne
Maywood
Chicago Sun-Times
Chicago Tribune
Blood-Horse
Daily Racing Form
Thoroughbred Times
Harness Link
Illinois Racing Board

 

2014

Arlington Million
Triple Crown
Illinois Derby

2013

Breeders' Cup
Hawthorne Gold Cup
Arlington Million
Triple Crown
Illinois Derby

2012

Breeders' Cup
Hawthorne Gold Cup
Arlington Million
Triple Crown
Illinois Derby

More ebay items

 

Home | News Updates | Bloggers | Forums | Search
Resources | Links | Marketplace | Gallery | Advertising | Contact Us

Copyright © 2000-2014 Chicago Barn to Wire. All rights reserved.
Privacy policy