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Author Topic: Lou Pena has officially ruined The Meds for me.  (Read 10974 times)
rock
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« Reply #25 on: June 06, 2010, 08:36:31 AM »

Robin Schadt claimed a few from Lou and did ok..

Been following Giacometti, claimed two weeks ago by Sorrentino for 40K off Pena. Won a 50K fist start off the claim in a time faster than anything Pena posted while in his care, which was around ten races. Last night in the 75K's won again wire to wire. I know Mike and he races clean, does the right things. I also spoke to the person who warmed him up last night and the horse looked good and was very fit. Now I'm not in any way defending Pena, but these are facts.

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pigland1
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« Reply #26 on: June 06, 2010, 08:38:58 AM »

Been following Giacometti, claimed two weeks ago by Sorrentino for 40K off Pena. Won a 50K fist start off the claim in a time faster than anything Pena posted while in his care, which was around ten races. Last night in the 75K's won again wire to wire. I know Mike and he races clean, does the right things. I also spoke to the person who warmed him up last night and the horse looked good and was very fit. Now I'm not in any way defending Pena, but these are facts.


STAY AWAY FROM THE BUFFET'S
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Yonkers1
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« Reply #27 on: June 06, 2010, 08:42:33 AM »

Bet Tioga Downs, they had enough sense to ban Pena weeks ago.
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pigland1
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« Reply #28 on: June 06, 2010, 08:44:48 AM »

Bet Tioga Downs, they had enough sense to ban Pena weeks ago.
THEY DID IT THE OLD FASHION WAY,"LOU ,YOU CAN'T POSSIBLY BE RACING LEGIT,NOW PACK YOUR SHIT"
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JBCSFL
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« Reply #29 on: June 06, 2010, 08:54:10 AM »

Been following Giacometti, claimed two weeks ago by Sorrentino for 40K off Pena. Won a 50K fist start off the claim in a time faster than anything Pena posted while in his care, which was around ten races. Last night in the 75K's won again wire to wire. I know Mike and he races clean, does the right things. I also spoke to the person who warmed him up last night and the horse looked good and was very fit. Now I'm not in any way defending Pena, but these are facts.



 thumbs up  My thinking is what ever Pena is administering to his horses is an undetectable long lasting substance.
It is of no surprise to me that they continue to race well a few starts after being claimed.
It will be interesting to see the long term effects on the horses that no longer continue to get boosters.
I feel for the welfare of all the horses who are subjected to any chemist trainer today.....and there are many competing nightly at every track across the U.S.A. and Canada.
Pena is not the only suspect trainer on the East Coast, he is just the most blatant suspect trainer at the moment and has been for the past ten months.

Jim
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BK
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« Reply #30 on: June 06, 2010, 09:03:09 AM »

Been following Giacometti, claimed two weeks ago by Sorrentino for 40K off Pena. Won a 50K fist start off the claim in a time faster than anything Pena posted while in his care, which was around ten races. Last night in the 75K's won again wire to wire. I know Mike and he races clean, does the right things. I also spoke to the person who warmed him up last night and the horse looked good and was very fit. Now I'm not in any way defending Pena, but these are facts.


Facts! Facts don't count Rock. Don't you know that by now.
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rock
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« Reply #31 on: June 06, 2010, 09:05:33 AM »

STAY AWAY FROM THE BUFFET'S

Never eat at tracks, at Yonkers go out the back gate, hang a right go two blocks for some great Italian food, Tombasullo's. As good as it gets.
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rock
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« Reply #32 on: June 06, 2010, 09:13:05 AM »

thumbs up  My thinking is what ever Pena is administering to his horses is an undetectable long lasting substance.
It is of no surprise to me that they continue to race well a few starts after being claimed.
It will be interesting to see the long term effects on the horses that no longer continue to get boosters.
I feel for the welfare of all the horses who are subjected to any chemist trainer today.....and there are many competing nightly at every track across the U.S.A. and Canada.
Pena is not the only suspect trainer on the East Coast, he is just the most blatant suspect trainer at the moment and has been for the past ten months.

Jim

Jim, not sure what he is doing or using but will continue to follow this claim and have been following some others that have held their own. (from trainers I know and can talk to) I will continue to form my opinion with information I can get from folks that have his horses.
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BK
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« Reply #33 on: June 06, 2010, 09:16:55 AM »

thumbs up  My thinking is what ever Pena is administering to his horses is an undetectable long lasting substance.
It is of no surprise to me that they continue to race well a few starts after being claimed.
It will be interesting to see the long term effects on the horses that no longer continue to get boosters.
I feel for the welfare of all the horses who are subjected to any chemist trainer today.....and there are many competing nightly at every track across the U.S.A. and Canada.
Pena is not the only suspect trainer on the East Coast, he is just the most blatant suspect trainer at the moment and has been for the past ten months.

Jim
Wow, Seems like some of you change the story as needed when presented with facts. Everyone was so sure that any of Pena's horses that were claimed would drop dead the following week. Now it is a long lasting,undetectable substance! Giacametti is is great shape and yet you still look to discredit Pena.
You made a post a few weeks back about the magical physical transformation of Real Joke in just one week under the care of Pena, I didn't buy it then and I don't buy it now.
What's next?
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burton
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« Reply #34 on: June 06, 2010, 10:13:36 AM »

It's not just that they are all winning.
It's the way they're winning.
Friday night BigM 1st race - Delightful Diva wins and takes 4 seconds off her life mark.

I believe there are superior trainers out there that can improve a horses performance just with better care, feed, legal vet work, rigging etc;
But..........

The majority of these horses go to the lead or race 1st over and don't stop.
They all do it the hard way.
The toughest trips out there.
Horses usually don't change racing styles successfully in a start or two. This guy is doing it with every horse in the barn.
Horse don't last going to the lead or 1st over in every race week in week out.
That's a fact.
This has not happened this way with a large amount of 1st time starters winning with the toughest trips etc; since Ledford.
Something is rotten in Denmark.
Like Jim said, I am worried about the welfare of the horses involved.
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noc
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« Reply #35 on: June 06, 2010, 10:17:54 AM »

What was Ledford's % at his pinnacle of success Huh
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« Reply #36 on: June 06, 2010, 10:51:39 AM »

Some of you I swear would complain on a sunny, 80 degree day that it wasn't 85 out instead.  Have never seen such a group of complainers in my life.


Here you have a guy winning, making people money, at a rate unprecedented in racing history, who has been tested and tested and tested some more, and who has come back clean EVERY time, and yet you guys just don't let up.  You all wanted a raid on his barn-you got it.  You wanted all of his horses tested-you got it.  He still comes back clean, and even after all of the raids and testing, he still goes out and wins what...10 races this weekend?  

Now, do I think there is possibly something going on in regards to an illegal substance?  Possibly.  But I can't prove it.  And neither can any of you, nor can the ORC for that matter.  So UNTIL I hear or see differently, I am riding the Pena train for all of its glory...and cashing.  Smiley  One thing you guys seem to never mention, to me its obvious he is connected to Croghan, and that guy is a master trainer imo.  One of the best ever in getting a horse to go.  And yes I know he has had his share of positives as well.  I know they swim a lot...I can tell you my winning % as a trainer went WAY up after I started to swim all of my horses, and their wasn't any magic prerace.  Horses just really respond to the pool.   I bet after I started swimming my % was up near .500 to .600, same as Pena.  Is that the only reason he's winning so much?  No lol.  But it helps.  But here's the thing, all of you that criticize trainers for giving their horses illegal substances?  Get a clue.  IMO 99% of all trainers at one time or another have given their horses something that might be considered illegal by the ORC.  Does that make it bad?  Not imo.  Hell, it has gotten to the point where you can't even give a horse steroids like Winstrol or Equipoise.  And that to me is ridiculous.  I trained horses for 18 years, and one of the first things I always did when I got a new horse was put them on a combo Winstrol/Equipoise.   Did so much good in helping their appetite, their coat, their general overall condition.  And never, not once, did I see a long term negative effect from it.  I could say this about almost anything ever used in racing.   Most trainers LOVE the horses they take care of.  They treat them very well.  Most trainers do not think of their horses as machines they can use and then just discard.  They actually do care about them.

Look, Im a huge animal lover, I give to multiple charities for animals and various conservation groups.  I HATE to see animals abused.  But you guys need to realize.  When in the care of trainers, especially top notch trainers out east, these horses are treated better than kings.  Better than your kids.  They need something?  They get it.  Best feed. Best medical care.  Best hoof care.  Best everything.  Why?  Because they race for big money and the competition is so fierce that if you don't have your horses feeling their best at all times, you might as well close up shop.

So anyway, as far as Pena....imo most of the complaints we are hearing from people about him comes back to one human emotion...jealousy.  And envy.  Just like you see in almost every other sport or business where someone else is kicking your butt.  So I say until if/when he is caught with something, and that is a BIG IF imo, ride this because you may never see another streak like this again.


« Last Edit: June 06, 2010, 11:15:41 AM by islandecho » Report to moderator   Logged
supernaut
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« Reply #37 on: June 06, 2010, 11:10:36 AM »

After last nights display, I'm done betting on the Meadowlands. He's making a mockery of the sport. And if anyone truly believes that it's because of swimming, I've got some land for sale.
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islandecho
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« Reply #38 on: June 06, 2010, 11:17:06 AM »

After last nights display, I'm done betting on the Meadowlands. He's making a mockery of the sport. And if anyone truly believes that it's because of swimming, I've got some land for sale.

That's your choice, and no one can blame you for your choices.  Though I will say, you would have fit right in with the mob back in the days of the Salem witch trials.
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« Reply #39 on: June 06, 2010, 11:31:09 AM »

One of the first that I remember improving was Lou's mare Flirtiscape.  And that was about 15 months ago, she is still tough at Chester.  She did not take her form to the BigM, but on the 5/8's she is still tough. 

Flirtiscape was just getting good at Cal Expo when she left.  It was not a big surprise to see her log 220K onto her card the first year she tried the east coast. Eye-opening, but not impossible, given the big purses, and great drivers she suddenly was being exposed to.

And imo, if REal Joke was 'off-behind' or whatever the rumor is, but he has size, heart, speed, and stamina, swimming him would be THE way to improve him.   

Time may tell what is going on, or it may not,  If I were still in the game as an owner I would be sour, but would not quit.

 
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The more you bet...the more you win
islandecho
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« Reply #40 on: June 06, 2010, 11:54:42 AM »

One of the first that I remember improving was Lou's mare Flirtiscape.  And that was about 15 months ago, she is still tough at Chester.  She did not take her form to the BigM, but on the 5/8's she is still tough. 

Flirtiscape was just getting good at Cal Expo when she left.  It was not a big surprise to see her log 220K onto her card the first year she tried the east coast. Eye-opening, but not impossible, given the big purses, and great drivers she suddenly was being exposed to.

And imo, if REal Joke was 'off-behind' or whatever the rumor is, but he has size, heart, speed, and stamina, swimming him would be THE way to improve him.   

Time may tell what is going on, or it may not,  If I were still in the game as an owner I would be sour, but would not quit.

 

People seem to forget that Real Joke was a monster all winter at the Big M, winning in 1:50 in the dead of winter.  Crushing. I was shocked, and I do mean shocked, when I first saw him in a claimer this spring, and said to myself this horse HAS to be worth double what he was in for...I think $50 K.  Let's face it, the Millers got caught trying to steal, or they thought Joke had a injury that wasn't going to let him stay sound for very long.  In either case, they were wrong and Pena pounced on it.
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ZENYATTA
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« Reply #41 on: June 06, 2010, 12:00:50 PM »

 But here's the thing, all of you that criticize trainers for giving their horses illegal substances?  Get a clue.  IMO 99% of all trainers at one time or another have given their horses something that might be considered illegal by the ORC.  Does that make it bad?  Not imo.  Hell, it has gotten to the point where you can't even give a horse steroids like Winstrol or Equipoise.  And that to me is ridiculous. that is a BIG IF imo, ride this because you may never see another streak like this again.

You really need to stick to one opinion.In a previous post of yours you bashed posters for saying we were wrong for suggesting all the pre race chit was going on yet here you are saying 99% of all trainers are giving their shorses something illegal at one time or another/Care to document that 99% or is it just your hot air blowing ?
Your stance on using illegal subtances makes clear your position on rules and regs as long as they benefit you it's OK.I  hope no one ever robs you at gunpoint CUZ you will have no right to complain.
Plenty of other countries seem to do fine without any meds when it comes to horses and they sure kick our ass on a level playing field.

Winning streaks like PENAS have been around as long as I have been playing going back to Brian Pelling and will continue as long as their is money involved.Pena is just the current one.
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« Reply #42 on: June 06, 2010, 12:08:56 PM »

You really need to stick to one opinion.In a previous post of yours you bashed posters for saying we were wrong for suggesting all the pre race chit was going on yet here you are saying 99% of all trainers are giving their shorses something illegal at one time or another/Care to document that 99% or is it just your hot air blowing ?
Your stance on using illegal subtances makes clear your position on rules and regs as long as they benefit you it's OK.I  hope no one ever robs you at gunpoint CUZ you will have no right to complain.
Plenty of other countries seem to do fine without any meds when it comes to horses and they sure kick our ass on a level playing field.

Winning streaks like PENAS have been around as long as I have been playing going back to Brian Pelling and will continue as long as their is money involved.Pena is just the current one.

There is a difference between preracing the day of a race, and giving a horse something during the week...like steroids, or a muscle relaxer, or a pain killer, for example.
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ZENYATTA
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« Reply #43 on: June 06, 2010, 12:11:00 PM »

There is a difference between preracing the day of a race, and giving a horse something during the week...like steroids for example.

Care to give us the background on your 99% number of trainers using illegal chit one time or another ?
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islandecho
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« Reply #44 on: June 06, 2010, 12:24:28 PM »

Care to give us the background on your 99% number of trainers using illegal chit one time or another ?
What I'm saying is the ORC, the media, the powers that be in horse racing have scared the public into believing that anything given to a horse that isn't hay or oats, is bad.  Illegal.  Evil.  It's a broad misconception and sham created by these people so that IN THEIR OPINION they can protect the integrity of the gambling side of things.  I disagree with that premise but so be it.  I can flat out tell you that if only hay and oats were given to a horse, 50% of all horses wouldn't be racing.  Same as 50% of all athletes in any physical sport wouldn't be competing if they played on meat and potatoes.  I think what most people need to realize is just because a horse is given pain killers, or muscle relaxers, or steroids, or had a pair of knees injected with acid/cortisone, doesn't mean its bad or that the horse will feel any long term negative effects from these actions.  In many cases it's a life saving benefit to the horse, as instead of being discarded and left in a field somewhere...or worse, they are able to continue racing and get the best possible care and lifestyle they could ask for.
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ZENYATTA
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« Reply #45 on: June 06, 2010, 12:39:34 PM »

That is not what you stated earlier,you cleared stated that at one time or another 99% of all trainers have given thier horses something illegal.Since you were a trainer at one time that would probably include you using your numbers.

How can you tell me flat out anything ? Are you a vet / scientist that has data that can back up of your new 75 % claim about horses ?
The majority of data suggests that there are long term side effects to all narcotics and steroids users in humans are you suggesting this would also not apply to horses ? What medical degree or any degree do you have to make such a claim ?

So you are saying they are better off being doped up to race instead of being left out in a pasture abandoned.Pretty bad either way IMO.

What would be the real problemn if we had less racing ?
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Zoooooming By
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« Reply #46 on: June 06, 2010, 12:40:09 PM »

wasn't Pena in on the Garden State scam years ago with Hensley ,and Hyman and whoever else it was???   he was basically forced to go to calx and los al because no place else would let him race, just like wojico had to do the same. So if he was cheating then, and probably cheating at calx( where it is basically allowed anyway) why would he not be now?? but until they catch him, all you can do is hop aboard as a gambler, as for the owners and other trainers, as posted earlier, most that are complaining have already been caught and are just pissed his juice is better and he is apparently smarter then they were( at least , up until this point). You do have to feel bad for the few honest ones who are getting run over by this freight train, but everyone knows the slot purses aren't going to last much longer, so looks like some have decided to grab as much of the pie as possible while it is there for the taking!!   bang head
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ZENYATTA
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« Reply #47 on: June 06, 2010, 12:44:50 PM »

That is not what you stated earlier,you cleared stated that at one time or another 99% of all trainers have given thier horses something illegal.Since you were a trainer at one time that would probably include you using your numbers.

How can you tell me flat out anything ? Are you a vet / scientist that has data that can back up of your new 75 % claim about horses ?
The majority of data suggests that there are long term side effects to all narcotics and steroids users in humans are you suggesting this would also not apply to horses ? What medical degree or any degree do you have to make such a claim ?

So you are saying they are better off being doped up to race instead of being left out in a pasture abandoned.Pretty bad either way IMO.

What would be the real problemn if we had less racing ?

Changing the figure in your original post form 75 to 50% really does not change much.
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islandecho
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« Reply #48 on: June 06, 2010, 12:53:57 PM »

That is not what you stated earlier,you cleared stated that at one time or another 99% of all trainers have given thier horses something illegal.Since you were a trainer at one time that would probably include you using your numbers.

How can you tell me flat out anything ? Are you a vet / scientist that has data that can back up of your new 75 % claim about horses ?
The majority of data suggests that there are long term side effects to all narcotics and steroids users in humans are you suggesting this would also not apply to horses ? What medical degree or any degree do you have to make such a claim ?

So you are saying they are better off being doped up to race instead of being left out in a pasture abandoned.Pretty bad either way IMO.

What would be the real problemn if we had less racing ?

I don't need a medical degree.  I have real life experience.  In fact most vets that I have ever dealt with are incompetent when it comes to real life issues with race horses.  Not all, but most. Their practical knowledge is almost non existent.  Oh...I could tell you some stories. Smiley
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« Reply #49 on: June 06, 2010, 12:58:26 PM »



So you are saying they are better off being doped up to race instead of being left out in a pasture abandoned.Pretty bad either way IMO.

What would be the real problemn if we had less racing ?

And again, I don't know how much time you have spent actually training a horse, but I think you have a huge misconception going on here.  You act like these horses walk around all week in some sort of drug induced haze, oblivious to all pain as if they were on a cocaine binge or something.  I can tell you that is just not the case.  These horses get the best of everything.  I cannot stress that enough.  Sure, you have your occasional idiot who doesn't take care of their horses, but believe me they aren't around long.  In most cases these horses are treated like royalty, most as pets, and are given anything and everything to make their lives as good as possible.  I often said I wish people treated their kids as well as some treat their race horses. Smiley
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