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Author Topic: Rumor has it that RAs next start....  (Read 7227 times)
Grinder
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« Reply #200 on: June 10, 2010, 09:30:08 AM »

Marcus, one recent example of many would be whent they went back to Arkansas.  Soft field, granted, but Zenyattas camp took heat for "not beating anyone".

They have to show up to get beat. And so far everyone that has shown up has looked at her ass.  laughing guy
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Marcus Hersh
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« Reply #201 on: June 10, 2010, 09:32:26 AM »

Nowhere did I say keep your mouth shut, I'm saying we have no say in the matter.  Why do you seem to insist you do?

This is a living definition of cognitive dissonance. It's why wars happen.
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Grinder
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« Reply #202 on: June 10, 2010, 09:32:43 AM »

I have a feeling that Clockerterry, Marcus Hersch and some others really do like and respect Zenyatta, but they dislike some human who is overzealous of her. And bash the horse as an indirect way of bashing their human adversary.

Hows my intuition?
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Marcus Hersh
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« Reply #203 on: June 10, 2010, 09:33:23 AM »

Another example:

You KNEW this was coming from this camp:

"A trip to Belmont or Saratoga also seems doubtful.

"You know, I don't know," trainer John Shirreffs said. "We haven't discussed anything about where she'll run, but a lot of the races they run are handicaps."

 Cry Cry Cry Cry Cry Cry  chicken chicken chicken chicken

chicken


Care to revise your claim yet?  You look more and more like a fool.  I'm beginning to think you and clocker are the same person.

Like a fool? That quote (again - NOT from me) says nothing like Zen should 'face the best every start.'
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Marcus Hersh
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« Reply #204 on: June 10, 2010, 09:34:32 AM »

Another example:

Now comes word that Santa Anita is considering changing the Santa Margarita from a handicap to a stakes so poor little Zenyatta won't have to carry all that weight.  Cry Cry Cry Cry Cry

Imagine, that would be TWO of America's premier racetracks whoring out their graded races, all in attempt to give advantages to the reigning BC Classic champion. Apparently they're afraid she can't do it without help.  head shake

Zenyatta will have to go down in the record books with a big fat * next to her name: "Yeah, she was good, but if her connections weren't *** out, the tracks were *** out for her."

http://www.drf.com/news/article/110757.html


Care to revise your claim yet?

If you are going to take the time to dig up posts (from people who are not me), you could at least find one that supports your claim. Nowhere in this post does it say "Zenyatta should face the best every start."
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OTB
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« Reply #205 on: June 10, 2010, 09:40:24 AM »

Then just call me foolish.RA is not a great horse IMO,she had a good year vs a very poor crop of 3yos.She was beaten mutiple times as a 2 yo and as an older horse vs less than G1 company.This hardly equates to greatness.

But Niatross, you have to look beyond this year, last year was truly one of the great years put together by a three year old filly.  I think you need more than one great year to be considered great, but I expect her to bounce back this year.  If she loses again Saturday the great may be downgraded to very good, but based what we saw last year it's hard to imagine her not being that good again.
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« Reply #206 on: June 10, 2010, 09:41:28 AM »

I have a feeling that Clockerterry, Marcus Hersch and some others really do like and respect Zenyatta, but they dislike some human who is overzealous of her. And bash the horse as an indirect way of bashing their human adversary.

Hows my intuition?

They suspend reality for some reason when it comes to Zenyatta.
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Marcus Hersh
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« Reply #207 on: June 10, 2010, 09:41:57 AM »

Marcus, one recent example of many would be whent they went back to Arkansas.  Soft field, granted, but Zenyattas camp took heat for "not beating anyone".


But really she DIDN'T beat anyone! Not anyone remotely close to as good as she is. Not Z's connections' fault, for sure - it was supposed to be 'race for the ages,' i know. But when RA bailed, and if they were concerned about shipping too many times during the year, maybe they should have backed off, stayed at home, and waited for a more meaningful spot.

There may have been some misunderstanding: I don't believe any horse, no matter how amazing, should run against 'the best in the world every time.' Of course not. But, if you have a horse as good as Zen, i am of the opinion you should pick at least a couple spots that would truly enhance her already amazing legacy. Because the top of SoCal main track division, both male and female, maybe not so great; and because nationally, there is a dearth of really good older females, that is going to involve a long ship to a dirt track to take on males.

This is me expressing what I'd like to see as a racing fan / professional. Is this me telling the Mosses how to manage their horse? No! They couldn't give a rat's ass what i have to say, will most assuredly never see what i have to say, and clearly, my words have no influence over how Z is campaigned. I know, I know - who would think otherwise, right? Apparently a poster dubbed OTB would. 
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OTB
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« Reply #208 on: June 10, 2010, 09:42:53 AM »

If you are going to take the time to dig up posts (from people who are not me), you could at least find one that supports your claim. Nowhere in this post does it say "Zenyatta should face the best every start."

Are you kidding, here is what you wrote:

Show me where someone impugned RA or Zen for "not facing the world's best every start."


You don't say show where I wrote.  You really are a fool, those are your own words go ahead and tell us all what we read is not what you meant.
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Marcus Hersh
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« Reply #209 on: June 10, 2010, 09:46:35 AM »

I have a feeling that Clockerterry, Marcus Hersch

Are you a herd animal? Can you not refer to individuals? If you're a regular reader of this forum, you will know i have made my differences with cterry's Zen approach quite clear on a number of occasions.


really do like and respect Zenyatta


Yes! Yes! I have said so many times.


, but they dislike some human who is overzealous of her. And bash the horse


I have never "bashed" Zen. Show me one instance.
Has nothing to do with mystery human X, for me. Might for someone else. So please, stop the lumping.
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Grinder
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« Reply #210 on: June 10, 2010, 09:47:50 AM »

MH I see your point and do get it.

But, as Mr. Jackson just said about coveting a win in the Breeders Cup,  we have to at least consider that Zenyatta DID indeed prove herself when SHE did just that, and more, by opting up into the aged colts at the longest distance offered.

I think we can agree that she has stepped outside her safety zone in a big way at least that time, yet I cannot find a post of yours praising her for it.

Regards.
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OTB
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« Reply #211 on: June 10, 2010, 09:49:13 AM »

Are you a herd animal? Can you not refer to individuals? If you're a regular reader of this forum, you will know i have made my differences with cterry's Zen approach quite clear on a number of occasions.

Yes! Yes! I have said so many times.

I have never "bashed" Zen. Show me one instance.
Has nothing to do with mystery human X, for me. Might for someone else. So please, stop the lumping.

I'm entitled to an opinion just like you, that one seems to have struck a nerve...why because it's the truth?  When they accused me of being Niatross it didn't bother me in the least because it wasn't true.

Again, your own words came back to haunt you as pointed out above.  Are you willing to admit you were wrong?
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ZENYATTA
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« Reply #212 on: June 10, 2010, 09:54:08 AM »

But Niatross, you have to look beyond this year, last year was truly one of the great years put together by a three year old filly.  I think you need more than one great year to be considered great, but I expect her to bounce back this year.  If she loses again Saturday the great may be downgraded to very good, but based what we saw last year it's hard to imagine her not being that good again.

I am looking beyond this year,I base my view of grreatness on her entire career.I don't hink she is any worse this year than last year despite the losses.She faced a bad bunch last year and won and is facing older this year and losing to less than G1 race winners.Just because she won those G1 winners last year does make her a great one.They were among the worst G1 races I have seen in over 30 years.

You are the one who posted above you need more than one year to be considered great.This contradicts what you posted elsewhere than anyone that does not consider RA great is foolish.Even a win this Sat does nothing to reestablish her greatness.She chose the easiet of races available to her to run in and is less than a G1 race.
IMO she remains a good horse who was greatly overated as a 3yo in the greatness category.
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Marcus Hersh
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« Reply #213 on: June 10, 2010, 09:56:52 AM »

Are you kidding, here is what you wrote:

Show me where someone impugned RA or Zen for "not facing the world's best every start."


You don't say show where I wrote.  You really are a fool, those are your own words go ahead and tell us all what we read is not what you meant.

Here's he misunderstandin. You're focusing on the 'someone vs. I.' I'm saying that the examples you provided don't speak to the idea that Zen "should face the world's best every start."

Please - just focus on those words in quotation marks. That's all i was saying. That I don't recall anyone saying she should face the world's best horses every start. Because that would be a stupid thing to say. I talked about it in another post replyin to, i think, grinder.
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« Reply #214 on: June 10, 2010, 09:58:57 AM »

I am looking beyond this year,I base my view of grreatness on her entire career.I don't hink she is any worse this year than last year despite the losses.She faced a bad bunch last year and won and is facing older this year and losing to less than G1 race winners.Just because she won those G1 winners last year does make her a great one.They were among the worst G1 races I have seen in over 30 years.

You are the one who posted above you need more than one year to be considered great.This contradicts what you posted elsewhere than anyone that does not consider RA great is foolish.Even a win this Sat does nothing to reestablish her greatness.She chose the easiet of races available to her to run in and is less than a G1 race.
IMO she remains a good horse who was greatly overated as a 3yo in the greatness category.

It's possible I'm hoping for a return of her so then yes I may be over-enthused. I have posted numerous times that the Woodward was weak but she still won the race, she doesn't control who drops in against her.


The Haskell and Preakness wins were excellent races without a doubt.  The races where she beat other 3 year old fillies IMO can't be condemned because she herself was a three year old filly.

If you ask me in a comparison which horse is better then I say and have said all along that it's Zenyatta.
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Marcus Hersh
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« Reply #215 on: June 10, 2010, 09:59:29 AM »

I'm entitled to an opinion just like you, that one seems to have struck a nerve...why because it's the truth?  When they accused me of being Niatross it didn't bother me in the least because it wasn't true.

Again, your own words came back to haunt you as pointed out above.  Are you willing to admit you were wrong?

Have no real idea what you're talking about. I'm not a part of any of the accusations about indentity. And I stand by everything i've said in this thread.
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« Reply #216 on: June 10, 2010, 09:59:59 AM »

Here's he misunderstandin. You're focusing on the 'someone vs. I.' I'm saying that the examples you provided don't speak to the idea that Zen "should face the world's best every start."

Please - just focus on those words in quotation marks. That's all i was saying. That I don't recall anyone saying she should face the world's best horses every start. Because that would be a stupid thing to say. I talked about it in another post replyin to, i think, grinder.

What misunderstanding???  You wrote what you wrote and then were proven wrong.  What's to misunderstand, the words are there in black and white.

Having a little trouble eating your own words???
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ZENYATTA
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« Reply #217 on: June 10, 2010, 10:03:06 AM »

Here's he misunderstandin. You're focusing on the 'someone vs. I.' I'm saying that the examples you provided don't speak to the idea that Zen "should face the world's best every start."

Please - just focus on those words in quotation marks. That's all i was saying. That I don't recall anyone saying she should face the world's best horses every start. Because that would be a stupid thing to say. I talked about it in another post replyin to, i think, grinder.

No,but there is a clown on this forum berating her and her connections for going on to bigger and better things as other BC Classic winners have.
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Marcus Hersh
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« Reply #218 on: June 10, 2010, 10:03:15 AM »


I think we can agree that she has stepped outside her safety zone in a big way at least that time, yet I cannot find a post of yours praising her for it.


Then you have not looked very hard.
I would quibble with the 'in a big way," since the BC Classic was on a surface she handles (at least adequately, even if she prefers dirt), and in her backyard, which was not the case for others in the race.

I picked Zen to win the BC Classic. Just as I probably would bet on her to win the Foster on Saturday, had she been pointed to that race. She's a remarkable, wonderful filly who has earned nothing but praise. And I hope at some point this year -- and not just a one-off in the Breeders' Cup -- to see have the opportunity to see that talent on display in a dirt race against some really good horses.
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Marcus Hersh
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« Reply #219 on: June 10, 2010, 10:09:32 AM »

What misunderstanding???  You wrote what you wrote and then were proven wrong.  What's to misunderstand, the words are there in black and white.

Having a little trouble eating your own words???

I can't do this any longer. Taken up too much work time already.
Look - think what you want to think. I deleted an unkind post and instead in my last post tried to point out how both of us -- you especially -- were getting hung up on some slightly gray areas in meaning. And then I get 'eat your words?' Whatever.

But I will say one final thing: You, sir or madam, are walking breathing proof that words are NOT there in black and white. 
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« Reply #220 on: June 10, 2010, 10:17:55 AM »

I can't do this any longer. Taken up too much work time already.
Look - think what you want to think. I deleted an unkind post and instead in my last post tried to point out how both of us -- you especially -- were getting hung up on some slightly gray areas in meaning. And then I get 'eat your words?' Whatever.

But I will say one final thing: You, sir or madam, are walking breathing proof that words are NOT there in black and white. 


You wrote what you wrote and there is no getting away from it.  You want people to believe otherwise.
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Grinder
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« Reply #221 on: June 10, 2010, 10:39:05 AM »

Then you have not looked very hard.
I would quibble with the 'in a big way," since the BC Classic was on a surface she handles (at least adequately, even if she prefers dirt), and in her backyard, which was not the case for others in the race.

I picked Zen to win the BC Classic. Just as I probably would bet on her to win the Foster on Saturday, had she been pointed to that race. She's a remarkable, wonderful filly who has earned nothing but praise. And I hope at some point this year -- and not just a one-off in the Breeders' Cup -- to see have the opportunity to see that talent on display in a dirt race against some really good horses.

They had no control over where the Cup races were held. They DID have control of whether to face the boys, or girls. Give them 1 ounce of credit, and Ill shut up.  Or just give me your prior link where you've already posted that. I cannot find it, and gave it 25 minutes of my time.  But never mind, I know you are a fan and no need to get bogged down on nit picking the comments to death, but will close this out by saying Zenyattas camp took the biggest risk to get her beat that they could, they OPTED to race her against the opposite sex, going the longest distance offered, period. 
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CLOCKERTERRY
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« Reply #222 on: June 10, 2010, 10:51:43 AM »

I have a feeling that Clockerterry, Marcus Hersch and some others really do like and respect Zenyatta, but they dislike some human who is overzealous of her. And bash the horse as an indirect way of bashing their human adversary.

Hows my intuition?

I don't speak for Marcus or anyone else, but you're relatively close as far as I am concerned. Not quite right, but close. I've spelled it out specifically a number of times, and I think it has sunk in to brighter folks like Steve and Al, but dim bulbs like OTB either aren't capable of getting it, or intentionally refuse to get it so they can keep right on arguing. OTB seems to enjoy putting words in people's mouths and then demanding they defend something they never said, and refuses to read what people write and keeps making the same (false) charge again and again, so I think he's got a bit of the old sport troll in him.

We went through some awful stuff on the political thread together, Grinder, and I think looking back in retrospect you and some of the others realize that about 3/4 of the bashing I write is merely mirroring and turning back the same ugly stuff the opposition wrote to begin with. I do respect Zenyatta the horse - as far as good mares go.  laughing guy laughing guy laughing guy
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« Reply #223 on: June 10, 2010, 10:58:15 AM »

I don't speak for Marcus or anyone else, but you're relatively close as far as I am concerned. Not quite right, but close. I've spelled it out specifically a number of times, and I think it has sunk in to brighter folks like Steve and Al, but dim bulbs like OTB either aren't capable of getting it, or intentionally refuse to get it so they can keep right on arguing. OTB seems to enjoy putting words in people's mouths and then demanding they defend something they never said, and refuses to read what people write and keeps making the same (false) charge again and again, so I think he's got a bit of the old sport troll in him.

We went through some awful stuff on the political thread together, Grinder, and I think looking back in retrospect you and some of the others realize that about 3/4 of the bashing I write is merely mirroring and turning back the same ugly stuff the opposition wrote to begin with. I do respect Zenyatta the horse - as far as good mares go.  laughing guy laughing guy laughing guy

The last line in particular proves you're too stupid to bother with.
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Marcus Hersh
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« Reply #224 on: June 10, 2010, 11:02:25 AM »

They had no control over where the Cup races were held. They DID have control of whether to face the boys, or girls. Give them 1 ounce of credit, and Ill shut up. 

Thought i did, but if you want it in exact words:
I give Z's connections credit for running in the BC Classic.
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