Chicago Barn to Wire BRIS
Home | News | Bloggers | Forums | Resources | Links | Marketplace | Gallery | Contact Us | Search


September 17, 2014, 04:43:35 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: If you don't remember your password, email me.

New  registration procedures -- Some ISPs have been bouncing the verification emails.  Please email me to be activated or if you have any problems.  Click Contact Us above.
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register  
Pages: [1]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: account wagering would be nice  (Read 2762 times)
g3tPWNed_24
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1291




Ignore
« on: November 05, 2005, 01:31:21 AM »

http://thoroughbredtimes.com/todaysnews/newsview.asp?recno=58710&subsec=1
Report to moderator   Logged
CLOCKERbiggestal
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1415




Ignore
« Reply #1 on: November 06, 2005, 10:07:49 AM »

I got it.

Real good.  Grin

NJ account wagerering 4600 bet 41.5 million this year.

added 475,000 to purses.

not bad.
Report to moderator   Logged

Kickers beat one-pacers almost every time.
Minidar
Jr. Member
**
Posts: 73




Ignore
« Reply #2 on: November 06, 2005, 08:23:14 PM »

When this topic comes up I always say the same thing.  Illinois is so stupid waiting all these years and not having their own account wagering company.  They should have done it years ago when Phonebet was the only competition.  I do feel that somehow they'd screw it up and have outrageous fees of some sort.  The IRB is always behind the ball.

Report to moderator   Logged
Thomas Graham
Guest

« Reply #3 on: November 06, 2005, 09:18:35 PM »

Minidar:

Not to defend to the IRB, but in this case, it's not them behind the times.  Quite simply, account wagering is not legal in Illinois and thus the IRB is powerless to implement it.  (They don't make law, just administrative rules once laws are passed).

TG
Report to moderator   Logged
jrstark
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 6128



« Reply #4 on: November 06, 2005, 11:31:39 PM »

Thomas, is account wagering specifically disallowed?  Is there any wiggle room at all in 321.20 a) 3)?
Report to moderator   Logged
edwardwilliam
Annnnnnnnnd they're off!
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 6252

Rebate shops are not the devil.


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #5 on: November 07, 2005, 12:16:43 AM »

Thomas, is account wagering specifically disallowed?  Is there any wiggle room at all in 321.20 a) 3)?


It seems there little wiggle room, but the screws could be put to the lawmakers if the uppers so wished.

The politics of the tracks/OTB/IRB group are so messed up, it's impossible to sort through...but, it's VERY clear that things that are in the best interest of the horsemen generally get dashed.  Look at the 2006 dates, and tell me there isn't money/favors exchanging hands.  It's incredible!

Best,
EW
Report to moderator   Logged

Stick to Fantasyland pal, because you'll NEVER make it in the real world - TC
CLOCKERTERRY
Guest

« Reply #6 on: November 07, 2005, 12:18:42 AM »

Thomas, is account wagering specifically disallowed?  Is there any wiggle room at all in 321.20 a) 3)?

As I understand it, what is illegal in Illinois is betting over the phone or Internet. That was the thrust of the opinion by Jim Ryan that was reiterated by Lisa Madigan. We can already have accounts at the tracks, either vouchers or those BetMate things.
Report to moderator   Logged
CLOCKERTERRY
Guest

« Reply #7 on: November 07, 2005, 12:21:35 AM »

The politics of the tracks/OTB/IRB group are so messed up, it's impossible to sort through...but, it's VERY clear that things that are in the best interest of the horsemen generally get dashed.  Look at the 2006 dates, and tell me there isn't money/favors exchanging hands.  It's incredible!

The thoroughbred dates were understandable but the harness dates were incomprehensible.
Report to moderator   Logged
David
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 863




Ignore
« Reply #8 on: November 07, 2005, 03:03:35 PM »

The A.G. often issue opinions on what is legal or not in regards to the applicable laws of the state, in Jim Ryans opinion there isn't any wiggle room whatsoever in regards to legality of account wagering, if someone had the idea to challenge it in court - the court might rule differently as the underlying logic and law does not seem anywhere as clearly against as the opinion letter does.

http://www.ag.state.il.us/opinions/2001/01-010.html
Report to moderator   Logged
CLOCKERTERRY
Guest

« Reply #9 on: November 07, 2005, 03:24:21 PM »

The A.G. often issue opinions on what is legal or not in regards to the applicable laws of the state, in Jim Ryans opinion there isn't any wiggle room whatsoever in regards to legality of account wagering, if someone had the idea to challenge it in court - the court might rule differently as the underlying logic and law does not seem anywhere as clearly against as the opinion letter does.

There's the rub.

Out of state account operators like YouBet Winticket and Xpressbet have a different legal opinion and take bets from Illinois customers. The IRB is powerless to stop them without an expensive court fight that they might lose. But with the AG's opinion, and no clear law allowing it, the local tracks cannot operate (or even participate in) account wagering for fear of losing licenses. Likewise, other licensed entities like AutoTote and Penn National have to suspend operations in Illinois for fear of licensing problems.

It boils down to the law screwing the local industry both ways. They can't compete in the Illinois and national markets, but state law And the IRB does nothing to keep others from taking money from Illinois bettors.
Report to moderator   Logged
David
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 863




Ignore
« Reply #10 on: November 07, 2005, 03:34:46 PM »

Valid point, if the state doesn't want to sanction and legalize account wagering - they need to go after winticket or youbet or whomever and enforce thier opinion and the laws of the state. I don't doubt that that will happen soon - as it makes good sense from a political point of view for the AG.
Report to moderator   Logged
Stat Man Steve
Elevator Commedian
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 978




Ignore
« Reply #11 on: November 07, 2005, 04:28:40 PM »

Any yet, by the same law, isn't it legal for an out-of-state resident to make the same wagers here from IL, as long as it is legal where they live?  That's part of the ambiguity and unenforeceableness of the law, at least as I see it. 

The lawmakers aren't in any hurry to clarify this issue, since it will be looked upon as gambling expansion (it isn't expanding, since it IS happening) and get pressure from the anit-gambling forces (overly religious groups, I used to sit with our retired pastor at the track), and the current Casino operators (who, with their money to back them, would be glad to see a now small gambling competitor like the once mighty Horse Racing, shrivel and die on the vine for lack of watering).
Report to moderator   Logged
David
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 863




Ignore
« Reply #12 on: November 07, 2005, 04:46:23 PM »

According to the opinion it is illegal to gamble via phone or internet in the State of Illinois, it doesn't matter where you live - some operations who respect the opinion and decline Illinois residents will open an account for you if you lie and say you live in another state - that doesn't make it legal to gamble via the internet or telephone when you are in the state of Illinois per the AG opinion.
Report to moderator   Logged
CLOCKERTERRY
Guest

« Reply #13 on: November 07, 2005, 05:03:54 PM »

Any yet, by the same law, isn't it legal for an out-of-state resident to make the same wagers here from IL, as long as it is legal where they live?  That's part of the ambiguity and unenforeceableness of the law, at least as I see it.

Federal law says it is okay for an account operator to take wagers from bettors in other states where parimutuel wagering is legal - as long as there isn't some specific law barring it. So that is, for instance, why your Wintickets and so on cannot do business in New Jersey, or without being licensed by the CHRB in California.

The Illinois AG says various laws already prohibit the practice here in Illinois. The Wintickets and so on have a different legal opinion, that there isn't anything specfic in Illinois law. The IRB occasionally sputters and spits at the acount services, and maybe gets them to quit taking bets from Illinois bettors on Illinois races, but there's never been any real law enforcement effort made to end the practice. Probably because the AG opinion is legally very weak in the face of the Federal law.

I have to disagree with David, I don't think our AG is ever going to do a damn thing. It is easier for them for many reasons to pretend nothing is happening. And in the great scheme of many Illinois issues and problems, it is very small potatoes involving a small potatoes industry that nobody cares about anyhow.

The only way it might get any attention is if maybe you could get the Rev. Tom Grey all hyped up about the "problem of in-home betting, and the inaction of law enforcement agencies". Of course then you'd be shooting yourself in the foot of ever hoping to get it for yourself. But tracks and horsemen are all holding out for slots anyhow and saving all their poltical capital for that fight. You and me and existing horseplayers and our business are tiny sidelights for them at this point.
Report to moderator   Logged
Minidar
Jr. Member
**
Posts: 73




Ignore
« Reply #14 on: November 07, 2005, 05:50:57 PM »

I used to work at a major law firm in Chicago and I had this talk with big wig partners who were racing fans and would run over to either Jackson or State and place some bets.  They said that a fight with these companies would be very expensive, and Illinois might not win.  The worse case scenario for the companies would be the Illinois residents wouldn't be able to wager on Illinois tracks and would be able to play all others.  Reason being is that full card simulcasting is already allowed in Illinois.  They concurred that there would be a bigger chance if they gave track payouts and didn't have the surcharges.  In court it would be hard to justify why people should pay surcharges on out-of-state pari-mutuel tracks.  I have stated previously about not liking smoke and that is why I got an account.  I have though not used it on Illinois tracks for a year.  I've been going to the otb at lunch making advance bets.  The only track I've recently used my account for is Los Alamitos.   It would be stupid to go out at midnight to an OTB.  Play that track from home.
Report to moderator   Logged
CLOCKERTERRY
Guest

« Reply #15 on: November 07, 2005, 05:54:14 PM »

Minidar are you a QH player? I love them. Best racing in America to get nice overlays. But they all seem to race at night and I am never betting at night.
Report to moderator   Logged
David
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 863




Ignore
« Reply #16 on: November 07, 2005, 08:04:06 PM »

Probably right about needing the good reverend to get things going, but I could see the AG trotting out some poor sap who has been ruined by on line gaming  and annouce a crackdown, and the easiest one to crackdown on is the winticket types as they are on shore and are aware of the AG's position.

I don't know aboutfrom a pure gambling aspect of them - probably because I don't know enough about them - but I love playing the Quarter Horses  whenever I'm out at night - they are a ton of fun to watch and bet on - it seems like more of a pure sport to me - just go as fast as you can and see who is the quickest - not much hassle about getting blocked in the strecth or carried wide or whatever. I wish they ran a bit more locally - more than the 2 or 3 races a year anyways.
Report to moderator   Logged
Minidar
Jr. Member
**
Posts: 73




Ignore
« Reply #17 on: November 07, 2005, 08:51:16 PM »

Terry I enjoy the qh's.  I prefer Los Al because they mix all breeds, but I also will dabble in Sam Houston and other tracks when they are strictly qhorse meets.  I agree they have the best overlays.  I am a big fan of the Chicago Dash because of the good payoffs.  Watching them on tv or at the otb isn't the same as in person.  I've seen qhorses race at Fairplex and Los Al and I loved it.  15 minutes between posts is also a plus for me.

Report to moderator   Logged
g3tPWNed_24
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1291




Ignore
« Reply #18 on: November 08, 2005, 03:20:13 PM »

its pointless to make gambling over the net illegal. theres 100's of thousands literally playing poker online for money everyday and theyre not gonna be able to putta stop to that anytime soon. we have what 5 tracks and how many riverboats operating in this state and you still cannot place a bet on a racehorse through a account........what is wrong here? as usual everything is a$$ backwards and crooked here in ILL
Report to moderator   Logged
Minidar
Jr. Member
**
Posts: 73




Ignore
« Reply #19 on: November 08, 2005, 05:04:07 PM »

Ashton you made a point I forgot to make.  Not only would they have to stop horse racing accounts, they'd have to stop sports, casino, poker, etc.  For those reasons  just get an account and play. 

Report to moderator   Logged
Pages: [1]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.114 seconds with 16 queries.

Home
Upcoming events
Arlington Million
Horse slaughter in IL
Racing TV schedule
News Updates
Legislation

Galloping Out

Previous stories

Arlington
Balmoral
Hawthorne
Maywood
Chicago Sun-Times
Chicago Tribune
Blood-Horse
Daily Racing Form
Thoroughbred Times
Harness Link
Illinois Racing Board

 

2014

Arlington Million
Triple Crown
Illinois Derby

2013

Breeders' Cup
Hawthorne Gold Cup
Arlington Million
Triple Crown
Illinois Derby

2012

Breeders' Cup
Hawthorne Gold Cup
Arlington Million
Triple Crown
Illinois Derby

More ebay items

 

Home | News Updates | Bloggers | Forums | Search
Resources | Links | Marketplace | Gallery | Advertising | Contact Us

Copyright © 2000-2014 Chicago Barn to Wire. All rights reserved.
Privacy policy