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Author Topic: Horse that sulks  (Read 5514 times)
fuzzypants
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« on: December 20, 2010, 06:22:56 PM »

I would like to hear some opinions on this please.
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samstar
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« Reply #1 on: December 20, 2010, 06:36:56 PM »

Define "sulks",when and where and how does he or she  show it?
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« Reply #2 on: December 20, 2010, 08:32:05 PM »

A wife, daughters, Mother, Mother-in-law, Many Female grooms, Many Female Owners, Fillies, Mares,  Broodmares. Hay I am an expert on SULK. Hit us with some specifics.
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I am just an old "Hoss" trainer, that has been raced hard and put away wet. 
As my Friend from Maine(Ora Stratton) says "There are horse trainers, and then there are real "Hoss" trainers.
OldGreyMare
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« Reply #3 on: December 21, 2010, 07:03:31 AM »

  Right, like men don't sulk.... doh

  Fuzzy what kind of behavior are we talking about?  Standing with head in corner of stall?  Tail swishing/ear pinning? Won't eat?  And/or not performing up to par on track?

   Old-time endurance competitor like you... how about throwing a saddle on and going for some long trail rides?
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fuzzypants
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« Reply #4 on: December 21, 2010, 07:59:44 AM »

The horse trains lights out. When racing gets to the 3/4 pole and you throw the lines to him starts going backwards. If you even move your seat in the bike at the 3/4 moves backwards and wont try.
But when he trained the wk before to the half 1 min to the 3/4 30 and change and then to the last quarte 27. Yep and this is a trotter the horse has incredable speed. but wont try last quarter in a race.
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« Reply #5 on: December 21, 2010, 02:15:37 PM »

Most all horse I felt would sulk were terrible training but raced with company much better. Some that would refuse to train alone, and I mean stop to a walk and turn themselves around.

I would much rather believe you horse is choking in the race. Once some have choked down they will stop  at the least hind of their air being shut off.
Good Luck
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I am just an old "Hoss" trainer, that has been raced hard and put away wet. 
As my Friend from Maine(Ora Stratton) says "There are horse trainers, and then there are real "Hoss" trainers.
BabyFireFly
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« Reply #6 on: December 23, 2010, 09:08:45 AM »

Fuzzy....have you scoped this one?
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fuzzypants
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« Reply #7 on: December 23, 2010, 01:23:21 PM »

Fuzzy....have you scoped this one?
Yes when he bleed 4 wks ago. Had *** and pimples. Trained him back 3 wks later and minute to the half 30 to 3/4 and 27 last quarter.

Most all horse I felt would sulk were terrible training but raced with company much better. Some that would refuse to train alone, and I mean stop to a walk and turn themselves around.

I would much rather believe you horse is choking in the race. Once some have choked down they will stop  at the least hind of their air being shut off.
Good Luck

He has certainly been a run away in the past.

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BabyFireFly
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« Reply #8 on: December 23, 2010, 02:34:07 PM »

So....he's bleeding?
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fuzzypants
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« Reply #9 on: December 23, 2010, 03:11:22 PM »

So....he's bleeding?

He bled 4 wks ago and had blood out his noise when scoped that night he had pimples and pus and blood in lungs. treated him and gave him 2 wks off trained him back before he raced int the fractions above. Of course he was treated with lasix.
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fairgame
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« Reply #10 on: December 23, 2010, 03:28:09 PM »

He bled 4 wks ago and had blood out his noise when scoped that night he had pimples and pus and blood in lungs. treated him and gave him 2 wks off trained him back before he raced int the fractions above. Of course he was treated with lasix.

did you re-scope him?
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BabyFireFly
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« Reply #11 on: December 24, 2010, 08:17:29 AM »

Bleeding out through the nose is pretty bad....and just because it's not coming out of their nose, doesn't mean that they aren't bleeding. We claimed one that had been taken off lasix, her first start with us she gushed a 10 out of 10....so of course, you know that the previous trainer was using an alternate medication instead of lasix. We ran antibitoics through her and turned her out to let the lungs heal, also put her on XBL powder and now she is on a high dose of lasix, which is not a great thing, but she needs it. I would keep scoping after each start to make sure your dosage is correct on the lasix.
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fuzzypants
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« Reply #12 on: December 24, 2010, 02:15:23 PM »

did you re-scope him?
No we didnt. I am ashamed to say.
Was told they would before he raced but when I asked this same question the answere was no.
Bleeding out through the nose is pretty bad....and just because it's not coming out of their nose, doesn't mean that they aren't bleeding. We claimed one that had been taken off lasix, her first start with us she gushed a 10 out of 10....so of course, you know that the previous trainer was using an alternate medication instead of lasix. We ran antibitoics through her and turned her out to let the lungs heal, also put her on XBL powder and now she is on a high dose of lasix, which is not a great thing, but she needs it. I would keep scoping after each start to make sure your dosage is correct on the lasix.
this is a great point would you suggest scoping also after training or just racing. see we race at night and their is never a vet around
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fairgame
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« Reply #13 on: December 24, 2010, 04:18:05 PM »

No we didnt. I am ashamed to say.
Was told they would before he raced but when I asked this same question the answere was no.this is a great point would you suggest scoping also after training or just racing. see we race at night and their is never a vet around

The problem is if what you treated his lung infection with was either not given for a long enough duration or was not the best antibiotic for that infection it may have just supressed it without eradicating it, thus allowing him to train well but re-establishing itself before he raced.  Or he may not have gotten the right amount of Lasix now that his lungs are not 100%.  I would investigate further before just writing it off to a bad attitude.  That's too bad there was no vet available after the race but he could have been scoped the next day at the very least.
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« Reply #14 on: December 24, 2010, 06:55:33 PM »

So we are thinking this horse is bleeding rather than sulking.  Lots of things to help with the bleeding.  ECP  5 ccs day before, Kentucky red 10 ccs day of.  Amicar and lasix and treat with clembutorol as per your states guidlines. 
Talk with your vet and control the bleeding.
calcium jugs,  might help.

Give the horse some time to heal.
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katiec06
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« Reply #15 on: December 24, 2010, 07:18:11 PM »

I myself  am having problems with bleeding. Tried c & K powder, hesperine, Rutin. Never tried XLB. Are there any remedies that anyone has tried? Chinese herbs?
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fuzzypants
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« Reply #16 on: December 24, 2010, 08:39:52 PM »

thank you all I am thinking it is more a physical problem and not mental as some I am asociated with think.
I just love the harness folks they really try to help each other out for the sake of their horses involved in the sport.
i was told by so many that no this horse say he has stopped and sulked for years but I am begining to think a lot more to it.
The horse is so full of him self.
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« Reply #17 on: December 25, 2010, 01:28:26 PM »

what will ecp do for him if he's bleeding?

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samstar
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« Reply #18 on: December 26, 2010, 11:40:36 AM »

what will ecp do for him if he's bleeding?


I don't know, My vet told me to use it. It relaxes them and improves their demeanor.
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BabyFireFly
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« Reply #19 on: December 28, 2010, 01:43:20 PM »

ECP is something to give as an "attitude adjuster," it's basically potent estrogen, something given (mostly) to cranky mares. It is sometimes combined with FSH which increases estrogen production. I would assume that since it is used as a "sweetener" it is also believed to prevent bleeding in one that bleeds from getting too excited...though I have never seen it used in this application.

Kentucky Red is a great product...as long as you are getting it from a trusted compounder and the bottle is not just marked with a handwritten label. There have been instances where horses have become very ill after getting poor compounds - that goes for a lot of these alternative medications though. This would be something to use during training provided your vet gets it from a good supplier like Wedgewood or Horse Necessities in South Carolina. As far as withdrawal times though, I'm pretty sure that there are no guidelines for this medication since it is not an approved medication (though allowed in four states), but it has been proven NOT to enhance performance (other than helping bleeders not bleed) - it won't knock off 5 seconds, or mask pain or other drugs....it's not some designer super drug by any means.

Out of all the bleeding supplements I have tried, I have only seen improvement using XBL (by Finish Line) but you need to feed it consistently for awhile to see any results, it's not a miracle powder. I have also used Yunnan Paiyao for both bleeders and horse's with arthritis....you can read studies about how it does work and also ones where they say it doesn't....

Really the best thing (in my opinion) is to give the lungs time to fully heal after a bad bleed.
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fuzzypants
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« Reply #20 on: February 07, 2011, 01:47:07 PM »

Thank you looking in Baby fire fly and samstar Old Grey Mare katie and fairgame roolem all of you who posted your thoughts and questions. I pray you are blessed with this kind of experience that renews your faith in the harness horsemen brother and sister hood.

Hydro was scoped after he trained a wk ago and was clean.

Raced Friday night for the young man I leased him too and finished second.

No world beater but he is back trying and enjoying himself this was the skinny horse that was bones and fur when I got him and every one said he was dieing and I should put him down.

God gives us opportunities and it is what our hearts inspire us I believe it is called faith.
Harness horsemen are some of the greatest hearted and show so much love and concern for each other and their horses Thankyou all for your support. My son Hydropedes Thanks you also and send you all a curled lip and nicker.
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