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Author Topic: TAVERN TALK RACE..... THE TRUTH PLEASE!  (Read 7974 times)
tonymfan
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« Reply #100 on: March 19, 2006, 12:39:22 PM »

You brought my name up after Donna Lee gave her little speech about Brian, get it?

Yes I did. I said this is exactly the type of thing you hoped would happen when you started this thread.

You and your friends were getting embarrassed as imbeciles in the Doc Narotsky thread, so you did your no class scab picker act and and reopened an old subject, Tavern Talk, hoping to divert attention from that Doc Narotsky thread. You wanted everyone fighting each other about different things in this thread so they would forget all about that other thread and how stupid you and your friends looked there. Get it?

Good day, no class. I'm not "Great People Living Great Lives" posting at my computer 24/7 like you, and have some real life things to do on this beautiful Chicago day.
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John Doe
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« Reply #101 on: March 19, 2006, 12:48:44 PM »

Nothing to do with assigning blame, but it should be noted that "the fans" didn't lose any dollars on the race. The same pool minus takeout of winning wager dollars was paid out no matter which horse won.

This thread isn't dumb enough already, so here's an additional thought for creative "minds" here to mull over: Do you think there was a conspiracy to set up a sucker race with a huge favorite, then win it with a bomb longshot? Did anyone look at the entries carefully to see if the Anderson horse really fit the conditions? Someone told me they overheard a 2nd chair barber in their barber shop say he knew a friend who saw the cousin of the wife of a racing offical cashing out bundles of winning tickets after that race. I don't know if I believe it but that's what someone said.
Tonymfan:

    Why shouldn't blamed be assessed in this instance?  Do you enjoy wagering on races that contain a conflict of interest and seem to smell of corruption?  Are you actually telling me that you thought it was perfectly okay to have a Pinske horse in a Pinske memorial race?  Please clarify.

     Can you find out from your friend which racing official cashed those huge tickets?  Now that you mentioned that, it makes me all the more suspicious of that race.

     You're in the dark about the fans losing money on that race.  Just have a look at what you are boasting a little closer.  Say an average fan happens to go to the track the night of the Tavern Talk race and hears all about the tragic story of Brian Pinske's untimely death.  The guy starts to read the program, which by the way, had a wonderful story about Brian and all of his accomplishments on the front cover, and comes across the Tavern Talk race.  Can you honestly sit here and tell this forum that the guy would approach that race and handicap it without any outside interference of thinking about Brian Pinske and Tavern Talk competing in that race?  Come on Tonymfan, cut the bullshit.  You know that somebody did something wrong to have a Pinske horse in a Pinske memorial race.  Your postings of no blame in this situation are leading people to discredit anything you say on this forum.  I have heard people that don’t know you say that you are the type of person who won’t face the truth or tries to hide it.  You're the kind that likes to expose horsemen but when management screws up, you wish to sweep the corruption away under the carpet and keep things quiet.  

    And yes, the fans got screwed because many of Pinske's horsemen friends were touting Tavern Talk all night long, even pointing out the fixed race by saying, "who do you think is going to win this race."  I know you are not a dummy but face the truth here, something corrupt did happen.

     Come on Tonymfan, admit it, blame needs to be assessed here and you know damn well where it lays.

Best Regards,
Joseph M. Dakuras
(A UNLV Runnin Rebel for Life)  

« Last Edit: March 19, 2006, 01:23:46 PM by JDakuras » Report to moderator   Logged

AND NOW, HERE ARE YOUR UNLV 1990 NATIONAL CHAMPIONS:
                       GREG ANTHONY
                       ANDERSON HUNT
                       MOSES SCURRY
                       STACEY AUGMON
                       LARRY JOHNSON
THE BEST COACH EVER, JERRY "TARK" TARKANIAN
THIS IS HEAVEN
Dan Nance
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« Reply #102 on: March 19, 2006, 01:03:49 PM »

Yes I did. I said this is exactly the type of thing you hoped would happen when you started this thread.

You and your friends were getting embarrassed as imbeciles in the Doc Narotsky thread, so you did your no class scab picker act and and reopened an old subject, Tavern Talk, hoping to divert attention from that Doc Narotsky thread. You wanted everyone fighting each other about different things in this thread so they would forget all about that other thread and how stupid you and your friends looked there. Get it?

Good day, no class. I'm not "Great People Living Great Lives" posting at my computer 24/7 like you, and have some real life things to do on this beautiful Chicago day.

This is the exact thing I knew would happen in this thread, and that is total goofs like yourself will stick up for management when they attempt to FIX a race like they did because they wanted to honor a horseman that they liked.

     It's classless people like yourself that feel it's OK for management to attempt to FIX a race if they wish to do so but God forbid if you hear that a horsemen was involved in fixing a race.

     You belong in the category as these two guys   
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race track phil
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« Reply #103 on: March 19, 2006, 01:26:39 PM »

               BRIAN PINSKE ,     he was a good friend of mine and offered help to me anytime I needed it he was that kind of a guy . he deserved a memorial race !  but for management to have one of his favorite horses in the race was a total joke ! this was clearly suppose to be a fixed for tavern talk ! who was responsible clearly the race track management . ryan for some reason was'nt aware and won the race ! good for him ! this tarnished harness racing's reputation for sure . when the racing office is at fault I'm the first one to complain . but again pointing the  finger on a specific person is still hard , was it doc or was it langley or did duke create the idea ? take your pick ! one thing for sure brian is gone and that race is no way to remember his accomplishments . unfortunately a lot of people will remember the brian pinske memorial race first .  I will remember seeing him flying down the stretch with brets avenger . harness racing needs more brians today .        RTP
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njhorseman
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« Reply #104 on: March 19, 2006, 01:29:03 PM »

Chicago is not the only place that has held races to honor someone that just happened to end up having a horse associated with the honoree in the race.

I've seen it at least twice in NJ, I think both times at the Meadowlands, although one may have been at Freehold.

In one (the one that was definitely at the Meadowlands), the race was honoring a trainer who was getting married. One of his horses just happened to be in the race. Guess which horse won.  Wink

In the other, the race was honoring one of my frequent racehorse partners on his birthday. A horse he owned just happened to be in the race. Guess which horse won.  Wink
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ageecee
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« Reply #105 on: March 19, 2006, 01:39:33 PM »

Chicago is not the only place that has held races to honor someone that just happened to end up having a horse associated with the honoree in the race.

I've seen it at least twice in NJ, I think both times at the Meadowlands, although one may have been at Freehold.

In one (the one that was definitely at the Meadowlands), the race was honoring a trainer who was getting married. One of his horses just happened to be in the race. Guess which horse won.  Wink

In the other, the race was honoring one of my frequent racehorse partners on his birthday. A horse he owned just happened to be in the race. Guess which horse won.  Wink


yawnnnnnnnnnn......................
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Dan Nance
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« Reply #106 on: March 19, 2006, 01:49:42 PM »

Chicago is not the only place that has held races to honor someone that just happened to end up having a horse associated with the honoree in the race.

I've seen it at least twice in NJ, I think both times at the Meadowlands, although one may have been at Freehold.

In one (the one that was definitely at the Meadowlands), the race was honoring a trainer who was getting married. One of his horses just happened to be in the race. Guess which horse won.  Wink

In the other, the race was honoring one of my frequent racehorse partners on his birthday. A horse he owned just happened to be in the race. Guess which horse won.  Wink

I don't see a thing wrong with having the horse in the race but the way the whole thing came down is the problem.

   #1..... The race was written for the horse.
   #2..... Doc made sure the horse got the rail.
   #3..... 50 friends and family were expecting the horse to win.
   #4..... Heede went after Ryan after the race in the drivers room where he was not suppose to be.
   #5..... Ryan came down from the Derby Room in tears after he was told by the Pinske party to " get the f*uck out of here ".
   #6....  Ryan's car was tampered with.

    All this occurred and people have the nerve to think this was not suppose to be a fixed race?

    Why did they feel the need to go to such great Lents for his memorial pace by trying to fix a race for one of his horses to win? Why not just name a race after him and be done with it?
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DLeestable
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« Reply #107 on: March 19, 2006, 01:54:01 PM »

Dan,

   I wasn't talking about you.  I don't care if those guys want to *** about the race, go for it. I never saw you write anything personally about Brian but someone was going on about Brians personal life. Has nothing to do with the topic. Brians parents have lost two sons, and no one knows how that feels unless you have been there. Give them the respect they deserve and leave Brians personal life out of it.
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Dan Nance
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« Reply #108 on: March 19, 2006, 02:00:27 PM »

Dan,

   I wasn't talking about you.  I don't care if those guys want to *** about the race, go for it. I never saw you write anything personally about Brian but someone was going on about Brians personal life. Has nothing to do with the topic. Brians parents have lost two sons, and no one knows how that feels unless you have been there. Give them the respect they deserve and leave Brians personal life out of it.

I know you weren't talking about me but that other goof tonymfan had to bring my name up after your post. I wanted to make it clear I never said a word about Brian. Brian and I always got along and he always showed me respect when we ran into each other. Brain was one of the guys I always liked in the business.

    This topic was about race fixing by management and it has nothing to do with Brian. If Tavern Talk would have won there would never be a discussion about the race. It was all the factors that happened after the race that made the race look like it was suppose to be fixed.   
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njhorseman
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« Reply #109 on: March 19, 2006, 02:11:31 PM »

I don't see a thing wrong with having the horse in the race but the way the whole thing came down is the problem.

   #1..... The race was written for the horse.
   #2..... Doc made sure the horse got the rail.
   #3..... 50 friends and family were expecting the horse to win.
   #4..... Heede went after Ryan after the race in the drivers room where he was not suppose to be.
   #5..... Ryan came down from the Derby Room in tears after he was told by the Pinske party to " get the f*uck out of here ".
   #6....  Ryan's car was tampered with.

    All this occurred and people have the nerve to think this was not suppose to be a fixed race?

    Why did they feel the need to go to such great Lents for his memorial pace by trying to fix a race for one of his horses to win? Why not just name a race after him and be done with it?


Dan:

It seems to me that one alleged participant in this "incident," Heede, disagrees with your version of the "facts." He was there, and you weren't. Maybe he's lying, but he knows exactly what went down from firsthand knowledge, while you are just repeating rumors and stories you've heard.

I also don't see how you can be sure that the horse was "given" the rail by Doc. Let's face it, Doc  is not exactly one of your favorites, so the fact that you have an opinion that he gave him the rail doesn't impress me. Maybe he did, maybe he didn't, but the fact is you can't say for sure.

#3 also held true in the races I mentioned. There were lots of family and friends on hand expecting the horse to win. Family and friends being on hand fora race honoring someone is hardly a surprise, whether they have a horse in the race or not.
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Dan Nance
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« Reply #110 on: March 19, 2006, 02:17:26 PM »

Dan:

It seems to me that one alleged participant in this "incident," Heede, disagrees with your version of the "facts." He was there, and you weren't. Maybe he's lying, but he knows exactly what went down from firsthand knowledge, while you are just repeating rumors and stories you've heard.

I also don't see how you can be sure that the horse was "given" the rail by Doc. Let's face it, Doc  is not exactly one of your favorites, so the fact that you have an opinion that he gave him the rail doesn't impress me. Maybe he did, maybe he didn't, but the fact is you can't say for sure.

#3 also held true in the races I mentioned. There were lots of family and friends on hand expecting the horse to win. Family and friends being on hand fora race honoring someone is hardly a surprise, whether they have a horse in the race or not.

You're wrong Paul

        I'm not repeating rumors about what Heede did. Out of respect to the person who was there and who held Ryan in their arms after he left the Derby Room crying I will not tell you or anybody else who this person is.

       I recieved a PM telling me that Heede is a liar and he did go after Ryan and that Heede was blind drunk. This person like Heede was also there.

       So, know what you're talking about before you accuse me of telling only rumors.
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njhorseman
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« Reply #111 on: March 19, 2006, 02:24:10 PM »

You're wrong Paul

        I'm not repeating rumors about what Heede did. Out of respect to the person who was there and who held Ryan in their arms after he left the Derby Room crying I will not tell you or anybody else who this person is.

       I recieved a PM telling me that Heede is a liar and he did go after Ryan and that Heede was blind drunk. This person like Heede was also there.

       So, know what you're talking about before you accuse me of telling only rumors.


Dan:
I said that Heede might be lying, but you were not there, so your testimony is still "hearsay"...you're just telling us what others told you, and you have no first knowledge of what went down.

Anyway, this is a most distasteful thread. Time to button it up as far as I'm concerned.
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Dan Nance
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« Reply #112 on: March 19, 2006, 02:30:44 PM »

Dan:
I said that Heede might be lying, but you were not there, so your testimony is still "hearsay"...you're just telling us what others told you, and you have no first knowledge of what went down.

Anyway, this is a most distasteful thread. Time to button it up as far as I'm concerned.

OK Paul, you button it up but the fact remains I know what went down because someone who was THERE!!!! told me what went down.


    HEEDE KNOWS!!!!!!
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John Doe
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« Reply #113 on: March 19, 2006, 02:31:45 PM »

Dan:

It seems to me that one alleged participant in this "incident," Heede, disagrees with your version of the "facts." He was there, and you weren't. Maybe he's lying, but he knows exactly what went down from firsthand knowledge, while you are just repeating rumors and stories you've heard.

I also don't see how you can be sure that the horse was "given" the rail by Doc. Let's face it, Doc is not exactly one of your favorites, so the fact that you have an opinion that he gave him the rail doesn't impress me. Maybe he did, maybe he didn't, but the fact is you can't say for sure.

#3 also held true in the races I mentioned. There were lots of family and friends on hand expecting the horse to win. Family and friends being on hand fora race honoring someone is hardly a surprise, whether they have a horse in the race or not.
Paul;

   Once again, I disagree, but what else is new?   Grin  Are you telling me that because the Meadowlands and Freehold wrote suspicious races that it is okay and an accepted "norm" in the industry?  I hope not.  It is painfully clear that there were most definitely some corrupt intentions for this races outcome from the moment it was listed on the condition sheet.

    Paul, once again, somebody in the race office screwed up.  I know you don't like it when I point a finger at Doc, so I'll ask you, who wrote this race and what do you think the intention of having a Pinske horse in it were?  By the way and for the record, Tavern Talk had the 2 post and not the rail. In any event, I have never witnessed such blatant rub-it-in-your-face behavior displayed by a racing office as I did on this occasion.  Paul, for the record, I was there and it was not a pretty picture.

    You can't say something wasn't wrong with this race because there was plenty.  I value your opinion and you seem like a levelheaded guy Paul but please don't try to sugar coat this thing because it was WRONG from the get-go.  Time to go to lunch with the Mrs. because she has that look on her face about me posting on BTW.  Angry Have a good day everyone.

Best Regards,
Joseph M. Dakuras
(A UNLV Runnin Rebel for Life)

« Last Edit: March 19, 2006, 02:40:56 PM by JDakuras » Report to moderator   Logged

AND NOW, HERE ARE YOUR UNLV 1990 NATIONAL CHAMPIONS:
                       GREG ANTHONY
                       ANDERSON HUNT
                       MOSES SCURRY
                       STACEY AUGMON
                       LARRY JOHNSON
THE BEST COACH EVER, JERRY "TARK" TARKANIAN
THIS IS HEAVEN
ageecee
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« Reply #114 on: March 19, 2006, 02:50:14 PM »

Dan:
I said that Heede might be lying, but you were not there, so your testimony is still "hearsay"...you're just telling us what others told you, and you have no first knowledge of what went down.

Anyway, this is a most distasteful thread. Time to button it up as far as I'm concerned.



As far as im concerned, dont read the thread or post in the thread and this thread will flow smoothly without you Paulie..
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njhorseman
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« Reply #115 on: March 19, 2006, 04:27:08 PM »

Paul;

   Once again, I disagree, but what else is new?   Grin  Are you telling me that because the Meadowlands and Freehold wrote suspicious races that it is okay and an accepted "norm" in the industry?  I hope not.  It is painfully clear that there were most definitely some corrupt intentions for this races outcome from the moment it was listed on the condition sheet.

    Paul, once again, somebody in the race office screwed up.  I know you don't like it when I point a finger at Doc, so I'll ask you, who wrote this race and what do you think the intention of having a Pinske horse in it were?  By the way and for the record, Tavern Talk had the 2 post and not the rail. In any event, I have never witnessed such blatant rub-it-in-your-face behavior displayed by a racing office as I did on this occasion.  Paul, for the record, I was there and it was not a pretty picture.

    You can't say something wasn't wrong with this race because there was plenty.  I value your opinion and you seem like a levelheaded guy Paul but please don't try to sugar coat this thing because it was WRONG from the get-go.  Time to go to lunch with the Mrs. because she has that look on her face about me posting on BTW.  Angry Have a good day everyone.

Best Regards,
Joseph M. Dakuras
(A UNLV Runnin Rebel for Life)



Joe:

No, I'm not saying " Are you telling me that because the Meadowlands and Freehold wrote suspicious races that it is okay and an accepted "norm" in the industry?"

I'm saying that I've seen races with the identical circumstances (other than the honoree being alive rather than deceased), which I am reasonably sure were not fixed.

It just boils down to your singing the same old song, Joe. Anything that happens in Chicago is part of a conspiracy by management to screw the horsemen, screw the public, and line management's pockets.

"The sky is falling, the sky is falling."

Joe, if the sky really was falling, who the hell would believe you? By this time, when I read your stuff, I automatically discount it as more of the Joe Dakuras "same old, same old." I can't believe it even when I want to.  Cheesy
« Last Edit: March 19, 2006, 07:39:39 PM by njhorseman » Report to moderator   Logged
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« Reply #116 on: March 19, 2006, 06:46:31 PM »

My friends,

This horse story and the memory of this person has been beaten down enough.  Let's move on to another subject that is at least one year old.

I'm LOCKED IN and I can't get out
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tonymfan
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« Reply #117 on: March 19, 2006, 07:44:08 PM »

Tonymfan:

    Why shouldn't blamed be assessed in this instance?  Do you enjoy wagering on races that contain a conflict of interest and seem to smell of corruption?  Are you actually telling me that you thought it was perfectly okay to have a Pinske horse in a Pinske memorial race?  Please clarify.

     Can you find out from your friend which racing official cashed those huge tickets?  Now that you mentioned that, it makes me all the more suspicious of that race.

     You're in the dark about the fans losing money on that race.  Just have a look at what you are boasting a little closer.  Say an average fan happens to go to the track the night of the Tavern Talk race and hears all about the tragic story of Brian Pinske's untimely death.  The guy starts to read the program, which by the way, had a wonderful story about Brian and all of his accomplishments on the front cover, and comes across the Tavern Talk race.  Can you honestly sit here and tell this forum that the guy would approach that race and handicap it without any outside interference of thinking about Brian Pinske and Tavern Talk competing in that race?  Come on Tonymfan, cut the bullshit.  You know that somebody did something wrong to have a Pinske horse in a Pinske memorial race.  Your postings of no blame in this situation are leading people to discredit anything you say on this forum.  I have heard people that don’t know you say that you are the type of person who won’t face the truth or tries to hide it.  You're the kind that likes to expose horsemen but when management screws up, you wish to sweep the corruption away under the carpet and keep things quiet.  

    And yes, the fans got screwed because many of Pinske's horsemen friends were touting Tavern Talk all night long, even pointing out the fixed race by saying, "who do you think is going to win this race."  I know you are not a dummy but face the truth here, something corrupt did happen.

     Come on Tonymfan, admit it, blame needs to be assessed here and you know damn well where it lays.

Mr. Dakuras, I don't think you read my post very carefully. I said it had nothing to do with assignment of blame, but was merely a comment on your statement that "the fans" lost money. "The fans" as a whole got back precisely as much money as they would have if Tavern Talk won, or any other horse. That's the nature of parimutuel wagering. Some fans lost, and some fans won, but the same amount of money was distributed out to the winners. I said it before, if anyone bet on this race thinking they were on the "inside" of inside information for a change, about to cash in big off everyone who bet on other horses, they got exactly what they deserved. They were smelling the sweet smell of easy cash, not the stink of corruption.

"Blame" for this race is not something I have enough information to assign, even if I was interested in doing so. No reasonable person could take anything posted on this forum seriously, posted as it is by various jealous haters with their many personal agendas. Ask yourself, "Would I trust a story I read on Barn To Wire?", and see what I mean.
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tonymfan
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« Reply #118 on: March 19, 2006, 07:49:03 PM »

This is the exact thing I knew would happen in this thread, and that is total goofs like yourself will stick up for management when they attempt to FIX a race like they did because they wanted to honor a horseman that they liked.

Pointing out that you are a classless clown who started this thread to divert attention from your brainlessness in another thread is not the same as sticking up for management. It's only about you, not management.
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Dan Nance
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« Reply #119 on: March 19, 2006, 08:00:22 PM »

Pointing out that you are a classless clown who started this thread to divert attention from your brainlessness in another thread is not the same as sticking up for management. It's only about you, not management.

I didn't start the other thread you're talking about and I made very few comments in the thread,goof.
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Dan Nance
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« Reply #120 on: March 19, 2006, 08:13:02 PM »

Ask yourself, "Would I trust a story I read on Barn To Wire?", and see what I mean.

Yeah, you can trust what you read on Barn To Wire about as much as you can trust Tony Morgan in a horse race.
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John Doe
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« Reply #121 on: March 19, 2006, 08:25:15 PM »

Joe:

No, I'm not saying " Are you telling me that because the Meadowlands and Freehold wrote suspicious races that it is okay and an accepted "norm" in the industry?"

I'm saying that I've seen races with the identical circumstances (other than the honoree being alive rather than deceased), which I am reasonably sure were not fixed.

It just boils down to your singing the same old song, Joe. Anything that happens in Chicago is part of a conspiracy by management to screw the horsemen, screw the public, and line management's pockets.

"The sky is falling, the sky is falling."

Joe, if the sky really was falling, who the hell would believe you? By this time, when I read your stuff, I automatically discount it as more of the Joe Dakuras "same old, same old." I can't believe it even when I want to.  Cheesy

Paul:
    
     Did I ever ask you to believe anything I post?  I don't believe that to be the case so please stop humoring yourself, my good friend.  

      Discount what I post all you want as that is your prerogative but it certainly will not stop me from posting it.  Got it?  If the sky was indeed falling I sure as hell wouldn't post it on BTW because people like yourself would imply the "same old, same old” by saying no it isn’t.   Wink

     Believe what you wish to believe and as I said before, I value your opinions but do not necessarily agree with them.  That's life and guess what, tomorrow morning I'll be right back on BTW posting whatever I want to post?  Grin  Have an enjoyable evening Paul as I must do some serious reading in preparation for a 7:30 AM class tomorrow, so sayonara.


Best Regards,
Joseph M. Dakuras
(A UNLV Runnin Rebel for Life)
« Last Edit: March 19, 2006, 08:31:22 PM by JDakuras » Report to moderator   Logged

AND NOW, HERE ARE YOUR UNLV 1990 NATIONAL CHAMPIONS:
                       GREG ANTHONY
                       ANDERSON HUNT
                       MOSES SCURRY
                       STACEY AUGMON
                       LARRY JOHNSON
THE BEST COACH EVER, JERRY "TARK" TARKANIAN
THIS IS HEAVEN
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