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Author Topic: TAVERN TALK RACE..... THE TRUTH PLEASE!  (Read 7992 times)
race track phil
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« Reply #25 on: March 17, 2006, 01:02:09 PM »

I can tell you this I was in the drivers room and there was no doubt that Andy was all over Ryan for winning In fact every driver was. Here's the real question for you why was there a brian pinske horse in the brian pinske mermorial hmmmm? If he loses people are pissed  If he wins people think its fixed. Doc should have never put a pinske horse in the race period.
   bingo ,   go get your prize your absolutely correct ! guys wanted to talk about doc and what he's done wrong this is the topic , he was dead wrong for letting tavern talk in that race and causing bettors to think the race was fixed . everybody in the track knew what was going on except bingo johnnie he took no prisoners and down the highway he went . congratulations bingo for winning the race .          RTP
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Claiming King
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« Reply #26 on: March 17, 2006, 01:03:39 PM »

No, here's the real question- if what you all say is true, then RJ is either the dumbest SOB on earth for not knowing about it or he's an opportunistic scumbag who took advantage of everyone else laying down to cash a big bet with a horse that otherwise had no chance. So which is it?
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tonymfan
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« Reply #27 on: March 17, 2006, 01:09:21 PM »

The dumbest SOB's on earth were bettors who put money on that race. Thought they were all in on a sure thing and got burned.
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supernaut
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« Reply #28 on: March 17, 2006, 01:12:45 PM »

bobcat-where are you??? You said that NOT ONE of the drivers either said or did anything to RJ. Is that accurate?? The last time I checked Andy Miller WAS a driver(although some would question that) And why did he duck that speed horse??. And who is this Heede person  and why was he in the drivers room??  And did he say or do ANYTHING to RJ?? Threaten IS saying something. So is this a case of business as usual??? or what?? Could we have our first OFFICIALLY FIXED race?? Too bad the IRB is such a joke, they would NEVER investigate Langley and the boys. And Rj should never apologize for winning a race. If someone should apologize for anything it's Pinske's parents. For not getting him help for his substance abuse problems. And to the track management and officials for their looking the other way about it when it comes to someone they like.
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Dan Nance
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« Reply #29 on: March 17, 2006, 01:19:03 PM »

bobcat-where are you??? You said that NOT ONE of the drivers either said or did anything to RJ. Is that accurate?? The last time I checked Andy Miller WAS a driver(although some would question that) And why did he duck that speed horse??. And who is this Heede person  and why was he in the drivers room??  And did he say or do ANYTHING to RJ?? Threaten IS saying something. So is this a case of business as usual??? or what?? Could we have our first OFFICIALLY FIXED race?? Too bad the IRB is such a joke, they would NEVER investigate Langley and the boys. And Rj should never apologize for winning a race. If someone should apologize for anything it's Pinske's parents. For not getting him help for his substance abuse problems. And to the track management and officials for their looking the other way about it when it comes to someone they like.

That was a great post, supernaut. Maybe the IRB attorney Shelly Kalieda can re-open an investigation on this whole ordeal or has the "statue of limitations" run out on race fixing and tampering with the draw of a race to give a certain horse the rail.
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supernaut
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« Reply #30 on: March 17, 2006, 01:22:52 PM »

No, here's the real question- if what you all say is true, then RJ is either the dumbest SOB on earth for not knowing about it or he's an opportunistic scumbag who took advantage of everyone else laying down to cash a big bet with a horse that otherwise had no chance. So which is it?


Claiming King-why does it have to be an either or, case?? Why can't it be someone who justs wants to win??? I don't know RJ personally so I can't tell you. So what you're saying is that RJ should have let Pinske's horse win??? If that's what is being said then they should have may it a NON-WAGERING race. So people WILL NOT lose their money on a FIXED race. Do you think some guy busting his ass all day wants to LOSE his hard earned money on a fixed race??? Yet that's what a lot of people think and that's why people are staying away from harness racing. Most of the people I know have gone from betting harness horses to betting thoroughbreds because they think it's more honest. I don't believe that it is, but it's about perception. And that's what makes people bet their money. And why the casinos are doing so well. Heavily regulated.
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emp
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« Reply #31 on: March 17, 2006, 01:24:24 PM »

Everyone doesn't know the ENTIRE story....

They fuc*ed with HIS CAR in the parking lot, bending antennas and doing things to his RIDE. In my book that's DIRTY DIRTY DIRTY.

Remember 'Heede' blows knows!
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supernaut
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« Reply #32 on: March 17, 2006, 01:28:37 PM »

Dan- the idea of the IRB investigating ANYTHING is a joke. What are they going to find??? That management conspired with certain drivers to fix a race??? Even if they had good intentions. Do you really think THAT is going to happen?Huh Even if they had proof positive, do you think that they would ever release it??  They would NEVER release ANY information on anything like that unless it would get rid of someone who was a thorn in their side. So for us, it's business as usual. Part of the Gestapo manifest. Do what you are told.
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Claiming King
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« Reply #33 on: March 17, 2006, 01:29:23 PM »

So what you're saying is that RJ should have let Pinske's horse win???

I'm not saying that at all. What I am saying is that RJ is not some poor innocent who was just trying to win a race like the honest horseman he is.
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TC
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« Reply #34 on: March 17, 2006, 01:30:15 PM »

To be fair, this is a rehash of old news we talked about months ago on BTW.  Having said that, I knew Brian Pinske and he would have been disgusted if a sham of a race like that had been concocted by Doc & Co.  We can't really blame BP's good friends like Heede for getting upset because they felt the chance to wrap everything up in a nice green and gold bow was ruined.  I'll bet BP was smiling down when he saw that the fans wouldn't remember him with a tainted race geared to make his barn a winner.  BP loved to compete, and that race was no true competition.  Supernaut called it, so did Petro, as did Dan.  Emotions ran high after the race and Ryan did nothing wrong.  I don't care even if JA knew and double-crossed the deal (which I don't think he did).  File it under : WHAT WAS DOC THINKING - if there's room left in that cabinet. Doc and the IRB were negligent in their duties BEFORE and AFTER that race.   trotter  TC
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supernaut
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« Reply #35 on: March 17, 2006, 01:32:00 PM »

Who is this Heede?? And how was he a friend to Pinske?? Did he try to STOP Pinske's well known drug abuse problems??? Or was he an enabler who helped him score??? I don't know the guy so I can't say, but it appears he knows about the situation. So what happened?
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Claiming King
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« Reply #36 on: March 17, 2006, 01:32:46 PM »

File it under : WHAT WAS DOC THINKING - if there's room left in that cabinet. Doc and the IRB were negligent in their duties BEFORE and AFTER that race.

I think we can all agree that the race was a bad idea.
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Dan Nance
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« Reply #37 on: March 17, 2006, 01:37:00 PM »

Everyone doesn't know the ENTIRE story....

They fuc*ed with HIS CAR in the parking lot, bending antennas and doing things to his RIDE. In my book that's DIRTY DIRTY DIRTY.

Remember 'Heede' blows knows!

emp
           That's what we are trying to get at here, THE ENTIRE STORY so we can see if there was actual race fixing going on in this race. It appears that the race was suppose to be fixed starting when the race was draw-en by Doc. If this race was suppose to be fixed the Sun-Times should get a hold of this story and cause an investigation and maybe some people should go to jail. Has anyone seen Larry Hamel?

            That's pretty brutal what they did to Ryan's car. Who was behind that? I'm sure it wasn't the race fans. I guess Ryan is lucky this race wasn't at Sportsman's Park because from the sound of things they would have had Gino drag Ryan into the security office and work him over like they had that guy Horak worked over. Instead Heede played the role of Gino.
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juniorgolfer8
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« Reply #38 on: March 17, 2006, 02:45:07 PM »

Listen boys everyone knew tavern talk was supposed to win hell even johnnie roberts wouldnt have screwed this one up. Ryan had orders from daddy win races Joe is in the business to make money period ryan was told to drive his horse the way he did. he did absolutely nothing wrong and everyone else should be ashamed of themselves. If you remember not only did andy's horse run off the week after but the week before he did as well both wire to wire i believe. they screwed with ryans car and ran him all over the track for awhile after that. They may have wanted to have tavern talk win but there is no question he never should have been in the race period.
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John Doe
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« Reply #39 on: March 17, 2006, 02:45:45 PM »

emp
           That's what we are trying to get at here, THE ENTIRE STORY so we can see if there was actual race fixing going on in this race. It appears that the race was suppose to be fixed starting when the race was draw-en by Doc. If this race was suppose to be fixed the Sun-Times should get a hold of this story and cause an investigation and maybe some people should go to jail. Has anyone seen Larry Hamel?

            That's pretty brutal what they did to Ryan's car. Who was behind that? I'm sure it wasn't the race fans. I guess Ryan is lucky this race wasn't at Sportsman's Park because from the sound of things they would have had Gino drag Ryan into the security office and work him over like they had that guy Horak worked over. Instead Heede played the role of Gino.

Dan:

     You're wasting your time with these guys.  We have people like Edwardwilliam and Racetrack Phil who thinks the sun rises and sets in Doc Narotsky’s eyes, while you and I know better.  I’m really disappointed in Phil because he knows damn well what type of person Doc is but does not want to admit it, Edwardwilliam does not know better so I can’t say anything about that.

     Based on their analogies, Doc would not be responsible for the Tavern Talk race either because the program department proof reader should have caught the mistake that a Brian Pinske horse was in a memorial race for him.  LOL.  Do these guys actually think I believe that?

     Doc wrote the race and allowed a Brian Pinske horse in just like he wrote the race with Katie Bell and knew the horse was DQ'ed on 2/7, but Edwardwilliam and Phil feel that it is okay that Doc was the first person to be aware of it and he had no obligation to pass that information on to the betting public.  That is nice to know.

     Phil says that I am unfairly blaming Doc.  How dare me accuse Doc of being the first person to be aware of the 2/7 DQ line on Katie Bell.  Like I said, it is my fault for betting early and assuming all of the information contained in the "Official Program" was correct.  I now am aware that Edward and Phil are aware of program mistakes and it’s my fault that a line that misleads the public appeared in the past performance lines of Katie Bell.  Shame on me, next time I'll make sure the program line is accurate.  

     Never mind the fact that Doc was the first person who was aware of the DQ by virtue of allowing Katie Bell entry into the race, that does not matter.  Like Phil said, its not Doc's job to ensure integrity into the sport and pass along that information, its the proof readers job to assume that Doc allowed that horse eligibility into the race and that a DQ happened on the 2/7 past performance line.  After all, the proof reader should know what Doc is thinking at all times and should have automatically figured that Doc knew of the 2/7 DQ.

    Back to this subject.  Dan, I think you're wrong, Doc is not responsible for the Tavern Talk or Katie Bell races, I am.  I should have know that a corrupt race was about to take place and assume the outcome of it.  LOL.  Doc did not do anything wrong and should receive an award for being such an honest and upstanding race secretary.  

     In closing, I want to apologize to Edwardwilliam and Phil for assuming Doc should have corrected the mistakes that occurred in both of these races.  It is not his job.  He is a great race secretary and one hell of a nice guy.  I have it all wrong and don't know what I am talking about when it comes to Doc.

   Doc, you are indeed a great man and I apologize for misjudging you.  I will accept full responsibility for the Tavern Talk corruptly written race and Katie Bell DQ line not being passed along to the betting public.  It is all my fault so please accept my apology. 

Best Regards,
Joseph M. Dakuras
(A UNLV Runnin Rebel for Life)  

« Last Edit: March 17, 2006, 03:00:30 PM by JDakuras » Report to moderator   Logged

AND NOW, HERE ARE YOUR UNLV 1990 NATIONAL CHAMPIONS:
                       GREG ANTHONY
                       ANDERSON HUNT
                       MOSES SCURRY
                       STACEY AUGMON
                       LARRY JOHNSON
THE BEST COACH EVER, JERRY "TARK" TARKANIAN
THIS IS HEAVEN
Richard Breth
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« Reply #40 on: March 17, 2006, 03:00:52 PM »

Doc wrote the race and allowed a Brian Pinske horse in just like he wrote the race with Katie Bell and knew the horse was DQ'ed on 2/7, but Edwardwilliam and Phil feel that it is okay that Doc was the first person to be aware of it and he had no obligation to pass that information on to the betting public.  That is nice to know.

     Phil says that I am unfairly blaming Doc.  How dare me accuse Doc of being the first person to be aware of the 2/7 DQ line on Katie Bell.  Like I said, it is my fault for betting early and assuming all of the information contained in the "Official Program" was correct.

This is my last post on this subject and you guys can believe whatever you want to believe. 

Knew that was a lie soon as you wrote it. blah blah blah
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Banker Barker
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« Reply #41 on: March 17, 2006, 03:01:31 PM »

I know one thing for sure.  Several people upstairs at the "memorial" party unloaded on Tavern Talk at the windows.  The plan was to make some "easy" money and donate it to some sort of memorial fund in honor of Brian.  There is NO WAY that Tavern Talk should have gone off at those odds.....

http://pathway.ustrotting.com/online-reports/rchart_drill.cfm?race_id=1416226&horse_id=52214
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Dan Nance
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« Reply #42 on: March 17, 2006, 03:08:27 PM »

I know one thing for sure.  Several people upstairs at the "memorial" party unloaded on Tavern Talk at the windows.  The plan was to make some "easy" money and donate it to some sort of memorial fund in honor of Brian.  There is NO WAY that Tavern Talk should have gone off at those odds.....

http://pathway.ustrotting.com/online-reports/rchart_drill.cfm?race_id=1416226&horse_id=52214

Bottom line it was suppose to be a fixed race.
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Banker Barker
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« Reply #43 on: March 17, 2006, 03:18:44 PM »

here's a better link for the chart that night....

http://www.maywoodpark.com/pages/Results1.cfm?Results_ID=269
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John Doe
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« Reply #44 on: March 17, 2006, 03:26:56 PM »

I know one thing for sure.  Several people upstairs at the "memorial" party unloaded on Tavern Talk at the windows.  The plan was to make some "easy" money and donate it to some sort of memorial fund in honor of Brian.  There is NO WAY that Tavern Talk should have gone off at those odds.....

http://pathway.ustrotting.com/online-reports/rchart_drill.cfm?race_id=1416226&horse_id=52214

Banker:

     Great post and to the point.  Please accept my apology because I was responsible for the Tavern Talk fixed race.  I should have caught the mistake of a race unraveling and Doc Narotsky had nothing to do with this.  It's all my fault.

Best Regards,
Joseph M. Dakuras
(A UNLV Runnin Rebel for Life)
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AND NOW, HERE ARE YOUR UNLV 1990 NATIONAL CHAMPIONS:
                       GREG ANTHONY
                       ANDERSON HUNT
                       MOSES SCURRY
                       STACEY AUGMON
                       LARRY JOHNSON
THE BEST COACH EVER, JERRY "TARK" TARKANIAN
THIS IS HEAVEN
bobcat
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« Reply #45 on: March 17, 2006, 03:42:50 PM »

They should have not had a Pinske horse in the memorial race that was definitely stupid, Doc could have picked any other race on that nights card and there wouldn't be this black cloud hanging over this race 4 years later ! Did Andy make comments to RJ? not to my knowledge. and if he did that was wrong and I am sure that they have buried the hatchet by now after all it has been 4 f@#%ing years. Didn't know about Ryan having his car vandalized, if that is true  , could it be someone whowas mad that they lost money by betting against him? It surely wasn't another driver I'd bet money on that. by the way Dan thanks for digging this one up again.GEEEEEZ!!!! Let's get on with our lives huh!    
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        Bobcat
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« Reply #46 on: March 17, 2006, 03:49:59 PM »

 
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Richard Breth
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« Reply #47 on: March 17, 2006, 03:50:16 PM »

by the way Dan thanks for digging this one up again.GEEEEEZ!!!! Let's get on with our lives huh!    
  •    
        Bobcat
Dan or an other estemmed poster has to put some thing like this on forum every few day to make every one fighting and arguing with each other and keep tone of BTW very negative. Its what thay do. There professional trolls.
 

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John Doe
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« Reply #48 on: March 17, 2006, 03:58:53 PM »

They should have not had a Pinske horse in the memorial race that was definitely stupid, Doc could have picked any other race on that nights card and there wouldn't be this black cloud hanging over this race 4 years later ! Did Andy make comments to RJ? not to my knowledge. and if he did that was wrong and I am sure that they have buried the hatchet by now after all it has been 4 f@#%ing years. Didn't know about Ryan having his car vandalized, if that is true  , could it be someone whowas mad that they lost money by betting against him? It surely wasn't another driver I'd bet money on that. by the way Dan thanks for digging this one up again.GEEEEEZ!!!! Let's get on with our lives huh!    
  •    
        Bobcat
Bobcat:

     Another great post on this subject.  I agree with everything you said except for the fact that you blamed Doc Narotsky for allowing Pinske's horse into that race.  It's not Doc's fault and he did not do a thing wrong.  You have to accept the fact that these kinds of things happen and Doc is a wonderful person who would never do any so corrupt as fix or bet on a race.  It is the betting public's fault that Tavern Talk was allowed to race in a Brian Pinske memorial race.  Doc is one hell of a nice guy who loves all the horsemen.  He is always willing to help anyone with his warm kindheartedness.  I cannot say enough good things about Doc and what he has done for Chicago horsemen through the years.  He is truly an ambassador to the sport of harness racing. I miss seeing his smiling face and caring attitude in the race office everyday.  May he live a long, peaceful and healthy life. He would NEVER do anything illegal or corrupt like many of the posters on BTW are saying.  I've changed my mind abot Doc, he is one great person and I miss him.

Best Regards,
Joseph M. Dakuras
(A UNLV Runnin Rebel for Life)
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AND NOW, HERE ARE YOUR UNLV 1990 NATIONAL CHAMPIONS:
                       GREG ANTHONY
                       ANDERSON HUNT
                       MOSES SCURRY
                       STACEY AUGMON
                       LARRY JOHNSON
THE BEST COACH EVER, JERRY "TARK" TARKANIAN
THIS IS HEAVEN
Dan Nance
Guest

« Reply #49 on: March 17, 2006, 04:02:00 PM »

They should have not had a Pinske horse in the memorial race that was definitely stupid, Doc could have picked any other race on that nights card and there wouldn't be this black cloud hanging over this race 4 years later ! Did Andy make comments to RJ? not to my knowledge. and if he did that was wrong and I am sure that they have buried the hatchet by now after all it has been 4 f@#%ing years. Didn't know about Ryan having his car vandalized, if that is true  , could it be someone whowas mad that they lost money by betting against him? It surely wasn't another driver I'd bet money on that. by the way Dan thanks for digging this one up again.GEEEEEZ!!!! Let's get on with our lives huh!    
  •    
        Bobcat
The whole point of the race was to have Tavern Talk one of Pinske's horses win the race named after him. That's why the race was written to make the horse eligible for the class. Then somehow Tavern Talk got the rail to make things even easier for him to win. Then the word went out to the drivers to lay back and let Tavern Talk win so 50 people sitting in the Derby Room could run down and get their picture taken in the memorial race for Brian Pinske. Ryan Anderson spoiled the party because he must not have been told what to do. Then Ryan gets manhandled by Heede in the drivers room where he has no place being because Chris Ezzo wasn't doing her job and allowed Heede into the drivers room. Non of the other drivers would back Ryan so he gets out of his colors and goes up to the Derby Room to apologize to Brian's family for winning the race. He is then told to quote " get the f*uck away " and leaves the Derby Room in tears. He goes out to his car and it's vandalized after the races.

     You have the nerve to say forget about this and move on? Why doesn't the IRB forget about the fixed race in 95 and let Sid Wiener and Tilden and Mills and all others involved come back and race then?

      This Tavern Talk race is a disgrace to the business and should never be forgotten. You say the horse should never have raced in the memorial race but you don't seem to understand he was in the race on purpose.  
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