Chicago Barn to Wire BRIS
Home | News | Bloggers | Forums | Resources | Links | Marketplace | Gallery | Contact Us | Search


September 19, 2014, 08:55:09 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: If you don't remember your password, email me.

New  registration procedures -- Some ISPs have been bouncing the verification emails.  Please email me to be activated or if you have any problems.  Click Contact Us above.
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register  
Pages: 1 [2] 3   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Hawthorne: You Blew It!  (Read 2398 times)
Horse Voice
Guest

« Reply #25 on: May 10, 2010, 03:33:48 PM »

Maybe it got a positive review on the Score because they were a sponsor?   Wink

I'm suspicious, too, about a sponsor's evaluation of an event.  Really, are they going to say "Hawthorne sucks!"?

If there are blogs or forums around that cover the local poker scene, comments left on these "for" or "against" would be more believable. I just don't know of any.
Report to moderator   Logged
Jim Miller
Full Member
***
Posts: 127




Ignore
« Reply #26 on: May 11, 2010, 02:03:28 PM »

Hello Everybody,

Long time, no talk, but when I saw the topic line, I felt that I needed to respond.

In regards to the poker event Saturday, there are a few things that are not stated in the prior posts.

Yes, this is a charity event.  The event was run by WSCR and Rockford Charities.  Hawthorne was nothing more than a host for the event.  In regards to the charity, Hawthorne did not charge the charity a single dollar for rental fees, set-up of the event, water and electrical, or Hawthorne staff.  Typically, for an event such as that, you are looking at a pretty good chunk of change.

In return, the contract with the charity allowed for the charge of parking and admission to off-set the cost.  While players may not think they received a deal, if the charge for this were not allowed, there would have been a fee charged to the charity and thus the players would have been paying $140-$150 to play instead of the $130 buy-in.

Also, this was an event where poker was the focus.  While we want to draw players in, you need to understand that with poker, the pace of play can be very quick and the lesser the distractions the better.

That being said, every player received a program when they came in.  Also, there was a simulcast center available by concessions for when a player was knocked out.

We want to follow the the needs of the charity and offer the charity the best available option possible.

For those that we upset, I am sorry, but this was the first major poker event that we have had here and we are always looking to make improvements.
Report to moderator   Logged
HarnessFanDE
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 3367




Ignore
« Reply #27 on: May 11, 2010, 02:20:41 PM »

This whole topic has me completely befuddled......though that seems to be getting easier daily.......They charge admission and parking on days when they aren't racing live? I can't believe tracks still charge admission and parking period......but on simulcast only days......That is appalling......
Report to moderator   Logged

SHOWTIME!!!
CLOCKERTERRY
Guest

« Reply #28 on: May 11, 2010, 02:26:58 PM »

This whole topic has me completely befuddled......though that seems to be getting easier daily.......They charge admission and parking on days when they aren't racing live? I can't believe tracks still charge admission and parking period......but on simulcast only days......That is appalling......

The admission charge at Haw is actually a simulcast program charge, and as for parking, unless something was really strange, there was plenty free if you wanted to walk an extra 50 yards.
Report to moderator   Logged
mel4600
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2293




Ignore
« Reply #29 on: May 11, 2010, 03:33:45 PM »

Hello Everybody,

Long time, no talk, but when I saw the topic line, I felt that I needed to respond.

In regards to the poker event Saturday, there are a few things that are not stated in the prior posts.

Yes, this is a charity event.  The event was run by WSCR and Rockford Charities.  Hawthorne was nothing more than a host for the event.  In regards to the charity, Hawthorne did not charge the charity a single dollar for rental fees, set-up of the event, water and electrical, or Hawthorne staff.  Typically, for an event such as that, you are looking at a pretty good chunk of change.

In return, the contract with the charity allowed for the charge of parking and admission to off-set the cost.  While players may not think they received a deal, if the charge for this were not allowed, there would have been a fee charged to the charity and thus the players would have been paying $140-$150 to play instead of the $130 buy-in.

Also, this was an event where poker was the focus.  While we want to draw players in, you need to understand that with poker, the pace of play can be very quick and the lesser the distractions the better.

That being said, every player received a program when they came in.  Also, there was a simulcast center available by concessions for when a player was knocked out.

We want to follow the the needs of the charity and offer the charity the best available option possible.

For those that we upset, I am sorry, but this was the first major poker event that we have had here and we are always looking to make improvements.

Jim,

Great explanation, and anyone would know there is no price gouging. thumbs up
Report to moderator   Logged
Horse Voice
Guest

« Reply #30 on: May 11, 2010, 03:42:03 PM »

Jim, thanks for responding to this thread. I disagree with a few of your points.

In return, the contract with the charity allowed for the charge of parking and admission to off-set the cost.  While players may not think they received a deal, if the charge for this were not allowed, there would have been a fee charged to the charity and thus the players would have been paying $140-$150 to play instead of the $130 buy-in.

Not necessarily. I play at a number of these charity events, and the top rake (the "+" amount) is customarily $30, with no additional parking or admission fees. There is another event (just like the one Hawthorne had) this coming Saturday in Rosemont, with a $100 + $30 buy in, and I'm pretty sure there will be no upcharges.

My opinion is that Hawthorne automatically gravitates towards these upcharges, because a) they have the mechanisms in place to do so, and b) simply because they can! -- such as charging for parking on Kentucky Derby day when there was no live racing at Hawthorne, nor anything else "special" going on.

(Jim, I don't expect you to defend or refute this: you didn't start this unnecessary upcharge stuff. It was going on LONG before you ever showed up at Hawthorne.)  

Also, this was an event where poker was the focus.  While we want to draw players in, you need to understand that with poker, the pace of play can be very quick and the lesser the distractions the better.

Just for clarification, it wasn't my position that the poker players needed to have that day's racing thrown at them; I wondered why no one in Marketing came up with anything to try to get these guys to come back at some day in the future.

I mean, we had them a) at Hawthorne, and b) with a good chunk of gambling money in their pocket -- in other words, pretty much all qualified "prospects", right in your wheelhouse. Marketing doesn't get much easier than that. It really hurt me to see such an opportunity missed.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2010, 03:54:06 PM by Horse Voice » Report to moderator   Logged
Horse Voice
Guest

« Reply #31 on: May 11, 2010, 03:47:46 PM »

The admission charge at Haw is actually a simulcast program charge, and as for parking, unless something was really strange, there was plenty free if you wanted to walk an extra 50 yards.

A simulcast program that few (if any) poker players wanted -- they were there to play POKER that day -- and the poker players were ALL charged for parking -- they didn't do the "$5 preferred / free, take a walk" thing they normally do for live.
 
"Free parking" was for the horseplayers only, and the way things filled up between 11 am and 1 pm, it was FAR more than a 50 yard walk on what was a pretty damn cold spring day. I couldn't have bought my way closer to the entrance if I wanted to.
Report to moderator   Logged
Horse Voice
Guest

« Reply #32 on: May 11, 2010, 03:52:49 PM »

Jim,

Great explanation, and anyone would know there is no price gouging. thumbs up

Jim M. should also know that you come out here and pretty much post in whatever direction is opposite my opinion.

"Anyone would know there is no price gouging?" I talked to at least 20 poker players who felt like they were getting ripped off.

Who did YOU talk to, Mel The Contrarian Third-Grader? Were you even AT Hawthorne last Saturday?  head shake
Report to moderator   Logged
mel4600
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2293




Ignore
« Reply #33 on: May 11, 2010, 04:01:32 PM »

Jim M. should also know that you come out here and pretty much post in whatever direction is opposite my opinion.

"Anyone would know there is no price gouging?" I talked to at least 20 poker players who felt like they were getting ripped off.

Who did YOU talk to, Mel The Contrarian Third-Grader? Were you even AT Hawthorne last Saturday?  head shake



Are you that stupid? I said with Jim's explanation there is no price gouging? Did you ever meet Jim? How do we you talked to 20 "rats" when no one knows you? I had no opinion until Jim's explanation and it makes you look the little fool you are!  laughing guy

Jim, next time charge the charity a fee so these "players" can have free parking and admission for the $20 extra entrance fee! By the way, try and figure a free hot dog for Clocker and Horse Voice since they always have their hand out! laughing guy
Report to moderator   Logged
CLOCKERTERRY
Guest

« Reply #34 on: May 11, 2010, 04:07:43 PM »

A simulcast program that few (if any) poker players wanted

I was answering the general comment about collecting admission on non-live days.

Quote
and the poker players were ALL charged for parking -- they didn't do the "$5 preferred / free, take a walk" thing they normally do for live.
 
"Free parking" was for the horseplayers only, and the way things filled up between 11 am and 1 pm, it was FAR more than a 50 yard walk on what was a pretty damn cold spring day. I couldn't have bought my way closer to the entrance if I wanted to.

And the general comment about parking fees, too. However, since you brought it up, if a person pulled in their car off Cicero and parked it in the free lot, how could anyone have determined who was who? Were they collecting parking fees way out by Cicero Ave., and asking, "horseplayer or poker"?

And, by the way, even with a poker tournament, I can hardly believe the parking was all that full on a standard simulcast Saturday at Hawthorne. But, you were there, and I wasn't.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2010, 04:10:30 PM by clockerterry » Report to moderator   Logged
Fiddler
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 467




Ignore
« Reply #35 on: May 11, 2010, 04:15:46 PM »

I think Jim has a difficult job and any man who has the guts to come on a public forum and defend himself as well as his employer deserves to get a pass on any harsh criticism; I mean c'mon, it's a charity event, Jim and Hawthorne were lending a hand to a good cause, if there were a few hiccups in the process, so be it, that's how you learn.  I say Jim and Hawthorne deserve an "atta boy" for lending a helping hand to a worthwhile charity.
Report to moderator   Logged
Horse Voice
Guest

« Reply #36 on: May 11, 2010, 04:24:35 PM »

And the general comment about parking fees, too. However, since you brought it up, if a person pulled in their car off Cicero and parked it in the free lot, how could anyone have determined who was who? Were they collecting parking fees way out by Cicero Ave., and asking, "horseplayer or poker"?

First of all, they redirected everyone to the Laramie entrance, and then the parking guys pretty much just said "$5", unless they recognized you as a horseplayer. Even if they didn't recognize you, they have enough of these "events" during the off-season that the average horseplayer just says, "I don't have to pay, do I? I'm here for the horses"...and they get waved through for free.

And, by the way, even with a poker tournament, I can hardly believe the parking was all that full on a standard simulcast Saturday at Hawthorne. But, you were there, and I wasn't.

You had to be there to believe it.

They had the "main" entrance shut down. The only way in was the Turf Club entrance. Parking on the Laramie side was already ridiculous jammed up, all the way back to 37th street, so I crossed over to the east side of the building and parked in the horsemen's lot, then walked back to the Turf Club entrance. Only a few other people thought of this.

I got in line at 11:30 am, and didn't get inside the plant until 12 noon.

As if 500 some horseplayers and 500+ plus poker players all trying to get in at the same time wasn't enough, there was also some sort of luncheon for the Chicago Public Schools coaches -- probably annual awards.

All through the little magic door of the Turf Club. It was a f'n zoo.
Report to moderator   Logged
servicetech
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1443




Ignore
« Reply #37 on: May 11, 2010, 04:30:46 PM »

I think Jim has a difficult job and any man who has the guts to come on a public forum and defend himself as well as his employer deserves to get a pass on any harsh criticism; I mean c'mon, it's a charity event, Jim and Hawthorne were lending a hand to a good cause, if there were a few hiccups in the process, so be it, that's how you learn.  I say Jim and Hawthorne deserve an "atta boy" for lending a helping hand to a worthwhile charity.
                                                                                                                                     
didn'
t think there was any HARSH criticism,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,and he is the GM at hawthorne ,,,,,so answering questions shouldn,t be a big deal,,,,,,
Report to moderator   Logged
Horse Voice
Guest

« Reply #38 on: May 11, 2010, 04:33:37 PM »

I think Jim has a difficult job and any man who has the guts to come on a public forum and defend himself as well as his employer deserves to get a pass on any harsh criticism; I mean c'mon, it's a charity event, Jim and Hawthorne were lending a hand to a good cause, if there were a few hiccups in the process, so be it, that's how you learn.  I say Jim and Hawthorne deserve an "atta boy" for lending a helping hand to a worthwhile charity.

I agree with you in principle, Fiddler, but this is the same "Jim and Hawthorne" -- and all the other GM's and tracks -- that are seemingly fresh out of ideas when it comes to reviving and growing the sport.

As a group, all of these folks drool at the prospect of getting slot machines, and free money from the casinos.

Well, here was an opportunity right under their noses -- and they let it go by with nary a thought!

If that's what you call "harsh criticism" -- missing an obvious marketing opportunity like that -- then...I guess you see them as being above any criticism whatsoever. Obviously, I feel differently.

I'd be interested in hearing what Jim has to say about what they would do differently if they hold another poker tournament like this at Hawthorne. I'll bet he has some ideas of his own, if mine aren't feasible.
Report to moderator   Logged
Horse Voice
Guest

« Reply #39 on: May 11, 2010, 04:40:01 PM »

Are you that stupid? I said with Jim's explanation there is no price gouging? Did you ever meet Jim? How do we you talked to 20 "rats" when no one knows you? I had no opinion until Jim's explanation and it makes you look the little fool you are!

You're off your meds again, Mel.

I not only WAS at Hawthorne talking to poker players last Saturday, I made the initial post of this thread FROM Hawthorne.

Their IP address is: 12.48.61.210.  Janine can verify that the first post in this thread was in fact posted from that IP address.

There, Mel -- I've given you enough good evidence that I was at Hawthorne on Saturday, so either run with it and prove me wrong, or kindly SHUT THE **** UP. You aren't helping a damn thing here, and Jim Miller knows you are just kissing his ass, anyway.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2010, 07:47:03 PM by jrstark » Report to moderator   Logged
Fiddler
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 467




Ignore
« Reply #40 on: May 11, 2010, 04:46:42 PM »

My guess is they may try something different in the future, we all learn from mistakes (hopefully).  Stealing from another thread and changing the subject, I have no idea what benefit AP thinks they will get from this American Idol thing on Friday, this concert definately looks like a money grab to me.
Report to moderator   Logged
Klink
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 693




Ignore
« Reply #41 on: May 11, 2010, 04:52:44 PM »

My guess is they may try something different in the future, we all learn from mistakes (hopefully).  Stealing from another thread and changing the subject, I have no idea what benefit AP thinks they will get from this American Idol thing on Friday, this concert definately looks like a money grab to me.

How much do you think a 30 second commercial costs on Idol? This is an advertising impression that AP gets to make to millions and millions of viewers. Of course it won't turn them into racing fans, but it's all about getting your brand in front of people and this will do that in a huge way.
Report to moderator   Logged
Horse Voice
Guest

« Reply #42 on: May 11, 2010, 05:03:54 PM »

My guess is they may try something different in the future, we all learn from mistakes (hopefully).

If anyone in this business can get it right, it's Jim Miller. I'm not just blowing smoke here -- this guy is the real deal, and I can only imagine how many tracks are trying to pull him away.

The "mistakes" -- like forcing everyone through one tiny entrance --are going to be corrected quickly; that's why I didn't even bring them up until today, and then only to give Terry a mental picture of what went on there last Saturday. Trivial stuff, IMO.

The more egregious "sins" -- the upcharges -- those are not mistakes, my friends. Those are so ingrained into the tracks mentality, that it's going to take far more than what Jim Miller can muster all by himself to get rid of those annoying bankroll reducers.

When you have been double- and triple-charging the customer for the same thing since forever, it's pretty damn hard to wean your business model from that free cash.

Canterbury Park in Minnesota has all but done away with the upcharges. Valet Parking is still available, but free parking is plentiful and very close to the entrance. And for the first time in their history, NO ADMISSION CHARGES, all summer long!

How will they keep from shutting down with no admission charges, I wonder?  Roll Eyes  

Stealing from another thread and changing the subject, I have no idea what benefit AP thinks they will get from this American Idol thing on Friday, this concert definately looks like a money grab to me.

Let's see what they do with it. Will they give out free passes for a return visit? A mystery voucher for Belmont Day?
Or will they just grab the extra money?

Could someone who is going to AP this Friday (or otherwise knows what AP's plans are) respond in this thread, please? If AP doesn't use the American Idol thing for some exposure for horse racing, they deserve a clunk on the noggin', too.
Report to moderator   Logged
DonPietro
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 617




Ignore
« Reply #43 on: May 11, 2010, 05:13:35 PM »

AP will be letting people in free after 4 pm with a ticket that they can only get online. The kicker is that they can BUY tickets on line for $6 RESERVED seats, which will get them in the door when racing starts at 1 pm. This enables people to keep the same seats after the races for the concert. Hmmmmm..... I wonder how many little darlings will be calling in sick to school on Friday, and all of a sudden become horseplayers?   Roll Eyes
Report to moderator   Logged
CLOCKERTERRY
Guest

« Reply #44 on: May 11, 2010, 05:18:04 PM »

Canterbury Park in Minnesota has all but done away with the upcharges. Valet Parking is still available, but free parking is plentiful and very close to the entrance. And for the first time in their history, NO ADMISSION CHARGES, all summer long!

a) Canterbury's parking layout is quite a bit different from Hawthorne's to begin with, b) Can you imagine the uproar from the younger stinky cigar I-bet-a-lot-and-I'm-important-so-I-tip-to-get-a-good-spot types if all the parking at Haw was free and po' folk got there early and took all the best spots, and

Quote
How will they keep from shutting down with no admission charges, I wonder?  Roll Eyes  

c) Card room?
Report to moderator   Logged
Horse Voice
Guest

« Reply #45 on: May 11, 2010, 05:37:54 PM »

a) Canterbury's parking layout is quite a bit different from Hawthorne's to begin with, b) Can you imagine the uproar from the younger stinky cigar I-bet-a-lot-and-I'm-important-so-I-tip-to-get-a-good-spot types if all the parking at Haw was free and po' folk got there early and took all the best spots, and

c) Card room?

a) agreed
b) LOL...so hold 30 spots and be done with it
c) Card room has been around...10 years?

(Might be closer to the point about how hard it is for a racetrack to stop sucking on a free money teat (like admission) than giving them credit for finally swearing off...even though they've had more than ample revenue replacement with the card room, and for so long.)
Report to moderator   Logged
CLOCKERTERRY
Guest

« Reply #46 on: May 11, 2010, 05:53:51 PM »

a) agreed
b) LOL...so hold 30 spots and be done with it
c) Card room has been around...10 years?

(Might be closer to the point about how hard it is for a racetrack to stop sucking on a free money teat (like admission) than giving them credit for finally swearing off...even though they've had more than ample revenue replacement with the card room, and for so long.)

I'll give Cby credit for "finally swearing off" if it is still free next year. This is a 25th (?) anniversary thing this year, supposedly.
Report to moderator   Logged
jrstark
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 6131



« Reply #47 on: May 11, 2010, 07:46:27 PM »

You're off your meds again, Mel.

I not only WAS at Hawthorne talking to poker players last Saturday, I made the initial post of this thread FROM Hawthorne.

Their IP address is: 12.48.61.210.  Janine can verify that the first post in this thread was in fact posted from that IP address.

There, Mel -- I've given you enough good evidence that I was at Hawthorne on Saturday, so either run with it and prove me wrong, or kindly SHUT THE **** UP. You aren't helping a damn thing here, and Jim Miller knows you are just kissing his ass, anyway.

Verified, and I will edit the almost-obscenity in the original as well ;-)
Report to moderator   Logged
mel4600
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2293




Ignore
« Reply #48 on: May 12, 2010, 01:50:58 AM »

I not only WAS at Hawthorne talking to poker players last Saturday, I made the initial post of this thread FROM Hawthorne.

Big f**king deal!  laughing guy laughing guy laughing guy

Who saw you there besides Clocker you f***ing buffoon! laughing guy laughing guy laughing guy

You think Janine verifying your IP address means anything to me?  laughing guy laughing guy

Did Jim Miller see you there? Did Jim Miller ever meet you?

Now go get your free hot dog and shove it up your ass!  laughing guy laughing guy laughing guy
Report to moderator   Logged
mel4600
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2293




Ignore
« Reply #49 on: May 12, 2010, 01:53:36 AM »

Verified, and I will edit the almost-obscenity in the original as well ;-)


Can you verify you met him face to face as someone other than Clocker?   Wink
Report to moderator   Logged
Pages: 1 [2] 3   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.315 seconds with 16 queries.

Home
Upcoming events
Arlington Million
Horse slaughter in IL
Racing TV schedule
News Updates
Legislation

Galloping Out

Previous stories

Arlington
Balmoral
Hawthorne
Maywood
Chicago Sun-Times
Chicago Tribune
Blood-Horse
Daily Racing Form
Thoroughbred Times
Harness Link
Illinois Racing Board

 

2014

Arlington Million
Triple Crown
Illinois Derby

2013

Breeders' Cup
Hawthorne Gold Cup
Arlington Million
Triple Crown
Illinois Derby

2012

Breeders' Cup
Hawthorne Gold Cup
Arlington Million
Triple Crown
Illinois Derby

More ebay items

 

Home | News Updates | Bloggers | Forums | Search
Resources | Links | Marketplace | Gallery | Advertising | Contact Us

Copyright © 2000-2014 Chicago Barn to Wire. All rights reserved.
Privacy policy