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Author Topic: RACHEL ALEXANDRA,THE 50k CLAIMER  (Read 3029 times)
mel4600
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« Reply #50 on: May 04, 2010, 12:54:30 PM »

If you think Assmussen's program of feed and supplements made for a turnaround you're crazy.  You mean to say Wiggins uses lower grade feed and supplements???

Why is Assmussen the default choice over Wiggins???  Because he trains 300 horses??  I'm sure they all get his individualized attention.....

Wiggins did a great job with the horse, HE is the one who developed her into the champion, not Assmussen, he bought a ready made horse...nothing wrong with that, but that's what happened.

These Rachel backers keep grasping for straws! You did a great job exposing these mental midgets!  thumbs up thumbs up
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mel4600
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« Reply #51 on: May 04, 2010, 12:55:31 PM »

that win sealed the HOTY vote for RA and you know it! a THREE yr old FILLY beating OLDER males


 laughing guy laughing guy laughing guy laughing guy laughing guy
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« Reply #52 on: May 04, 2010, 01:13:50 PM »

Easy there, Sparky. I wrote, "as an example" when I mentioned feed and supplements as something through which an immediate benefit could be gained. Couldn't have been MORE CLEAR about it, in fact. I said nothing vis-a-vis Wiggins' or Asmussen's feed and supplements. Slow down and r-e-a-d.

No. Because he wins, at all levels, and at darn near every track around. If you want to win money, get good horses, then use a trainer that knows how to win money. Is this really that hard to understand? What's next -- do we have to start printing instructions on toilet paper?

I'll give you partial credit here, Wiggins got her to Asmussen in great shape, but...close your eyes, and imagine Hal Wiggins a) having the courage to enter Rachel in the Preakness, the Haskell, and the Woodward, and b) the wherewithall and the horsemanship to keep her together and WIN all her races from May to September, and then have her win HOY...

Yeah, I can't do it, either.


Sparky... you and clockerterry use the same words....anyway.

Nopw you question Hal Wiggins courage???  You know the man?  How do you know he would not have run her in the Preakness?  Furthermore he does what's in the best interest of his owners...not you.

How he only gets partial credit for developing the horse is crazy, who else gets the credit for developing the horse?

I'm guessing Assmussen's past positives mean nothing.  How often does he actually "train" those 10 thousand dollar claimers at Sam Houston and Sunland Park?
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mel4600
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« Reply #53 on: May 04, 2010, 01:23:52 PM »

Sparky... you and clockerterry use the same words....anyway.

I see you noticed that too! thumbs up
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swoopdaddy
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« Reply #54 on: May 04, 2010, 01:29:29 PM »

Hal wiggins got 10,000,000 dollars for Rachel.maybe the greatest sell in history. for me the jacksons wont get out on her for a long time, if ever.  for ten million he gave them a horse at the top of her game. assmussen was just a babysitter for the rest of the year.. they made there choices on what to do with her and where to race her. it led to a horse of the year award. My question is,  Is that worth ten million?
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« Reply #55 on: May 04, 2010, 01:34:20 PM »

Sparky... you and clockerterry use the same words....anyway.

Yeah, and we are the same guy. Can't get nothing past you.  Roll Eyes

Nopw you question Hal Wiggins courage???  You know the man?  How do you know he would not have run her in the Preakness?  Furthermore he does what's in the best interest of his owners...not you.

Nope, I don't know the man. Just know his moves, from years of observation. Very conservative guy, which is not to be construed as either bad nor good.

All I know is, Rachel earned over twice as much in 4 races with Asmussen as she did in 10 races with Wiggins ($2.022 million vs. $926,354). Wiggins and the previous owner either didn't realize what they had in Rachel, or she really wasn't going to be able to achieve with Wiggins what she achieved with Asmussen.

How he only gets partial credit for developing the horse is crazy, who else gets the credit for developing the horse?

Asmussen, of course. She wasn't a "finished product" early in her 3 year old year.

I'm guessing Assmussen's past positives mean nothing.

Not to me, they don't. Not to his numerous owners that are making money in the game, no.

Asmussen starts THOUSANDS of horses every year, and has, what? One positive a year? BFD.

 
How often does he actually "train" those 10 thousand dollar claimers at Sam Houston and Sunland Park?

Him, personally? Who cares? He has a HUGE organization, and competent stable foremen everywhere.

Admit it, Doofus: you hate him because he is SUCCESSFUL. Just like the other idiots that hate the guy, and claim that he is "bad for the game". You don't have one objective thing to say about him, and then you try to pass off your venom towards him as "logic". Total loser mentality.
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Alpha Mare
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« Reply #56 on: May 04, 2010, 01:38:50 PM »

they made there choices on what to do with her and where to race her. it led to a horse of the year award. My question is,  Is that worth ten million?

swoop...when you have the disposable money jackson has.......does it really matter??? he had back to back HOTY awards..... the latest with a 3 yr old filly who is in the record books as one of the best 3 yr old fillies ever....
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Absolutely amazing.......s.m.h.....
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« Reply #57 on: May 04, 2010, 01:41:32 PM »

Hal Wiggins is a high percentage, top notch horseman. I do not know if he would have run the horse in big races similar to the ones that Asmussen did. If he had opted for a different path, it would not have been due to a lack of courage. On the other hand, maybe he would have saved her a bit and she would still be running at the top of her game now. Is the goal to win every possible award while sacrificing the animal? The fans love the "go for it" approach but many old school horsemen do not. I guess it comes down to what is important to you. One of my favorite horses is Silver Goblin.  Kenny Smith did what was best for him, he ran him at the home track, he did not ship him all over to run in Grade 1 races where he could have been over-matched. Actually, I think he would have competed against anyone, but they didn't care. It wasn't about that to them.
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swoopdaddy
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« Reply #58 on: May 04, 2010, 01:49:26 PM »

thats my point. nobody with the money jackson has likes too look bad. he bought a horse, campaigned her very aggressively and was awarded a hoty. now he has a reigning hoty that cost ten million that cant beat very average mares. who looks bad and who looks good? for me jacksons and assmussen dont look so good now but wiggins looks like a genius.
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Alpha Mare
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« Reply #59 on: May 04, 2010, 01:55:36 PM »

thats my point. nobody with the money jackson has likes too look bad. he bought a horse, campaigned her very aggressively and was awarded a hoty. now he has a reigning hoty that cost ten million that cant beat very average mares. who looks bad and who looks good? for me jacksons and assmussen dont look so good now but wiggins looks like a genius.

 I like the HORSE...I don't give a shit how they look.......
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Absolutely amazing.......s.m.h.....
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« Reply #60 on: May 04, 2010, 01:56:09 PM »

Hal wiggins got 10,000,000 dollars for Rachel.maybe the greatest sell in history. for me the jacksons wont get out on her for a long time, if ever.  for ten million he gave them a horse at the top of her game. assmussen was just a babysitter for the rest of the year.. they made there choices on what to do with her and where to race her. it led to a horse of the year award. My question is,  Is that worth ten million?

First, the $10 million figure has NEVER been confirmed, and anyway, Hal Wiggins didn't get the money -- the owners, Dolph Morrison and Mike Lauffer, did. Terms have NEVER been disclosed.

Second: are you fvcking serious?

Ever heard of breeding, breeding rights, breeding shares, syndication?

Ever hear the expression, "The REAL money is made in the breeding shed, not on the racetrack."?

Whenever Rachel retires, she will be bred to Curlin; what do you suppose a horse with those bloodlines will go for in the sales ring?

That is, if billionaire Jess Jackson -- for whom $10 million is merely a rounding error -- would even sell the horse?

(See what's wrong with all of you second-guessers and "deep thinkers"?: you have ZERO sense of perspective when it comes to big money and horses. ZERO. It's a different game, and pikers who think a million or ten is alot of money aren't invited.)
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swoopdaddy
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« Reply #61 on: May 04, 2010, 01:58:24 PM »

do you really think they bought this mare to sell the foals. if you believe that you are sadly mistaken.
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swoopdaddy
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« Reply #62 on: May 04, 2010, 01:59:46 PM »

horsevoice, do you think they made a good buy?
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swoopdaddy
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« Reply #63 on: May 04, 2010, 02:04:42 PM »

by the way how do you syndicate a mare. you can sell shares in a stallion but your the first to want to sell shares in a mare. at least the first that ive heard of.
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« Reply #64 on: May 04, 2010, 02:05:17 PM »

do you really think they bought this mare to sell the foals. if you believe that you are sadly mistaken.

Friend of Jess Jackson, are you?
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swoopdaddy
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« Reply #65 on: May 04, 2010, 02:08:13 PM »

Friend of Jess Jackson, are you?
No, just a friend of the sport.
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Alpha Mare
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« Reply #66 on: May 04, 2010, 02:13:28 PM »

An RA - Curlin foal , if taken to the sales....would most definitely draw a huge crowd...the first foal of two VERY popular HOTY winners??  who would buy said foal?? well...the dubai connection comes to mind.....due to it being by a HOTY winner out of a HOTY winner....the sheiks like stuff like that.....but i did the nicks on this combo awhile back and it's only a d+.....i guess it depends on how seriously you take the nick rating in breeding...my friend who has one broodmare will only breed her to a stallion she nicks A+ or better with.....too bad some of those matings resulted in crooked legs and fasig tipton sale turndowns.....so even a top notch nick doesn't mean squat if the horse isn't straight!
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Absolutely amazing.......s.m.h.....
mel4600
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« Reply #67 on: May 04, 2010, 02:13:52 PM »

Ever heard of breeding, breeding rights, breeding shares, syndication?

You don't syndicate a mare.  screwy


Whenever Rachel retires, she will be bred to Curlin; what do you suppose a horse with those bloodlines will go for in the sales ring?


A few more loses and you won't get what you think.  Wink


Lets not forget about possible conformation issues.
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« Reply #68 on: May 04, 2010, 02:14:24 PM »

horsevoice, do you think they made a good buy?

1. Very hard for me to make any kind of call without knowing what they paid.

2. Even if I did, what is a "good buy" on a broodmare? What if she is barren? What if her foals are slow -- then, a hundred bucks might not be worth it.

Go back to my earlier comments -- these people and their billions of dollars...Jess Jackson, Satish Sanan (well, before DWL, anyway), the Sheikh -- they are playing a game with which you and I have no familiarity. The best thing to do, then, is to keep your opinions to yourself about whether they are getting a "good deal" or not.
 
Besides: isn't the point of being filthy rich to not have to care much about price tags?

"I want it, I'm buying it." Given the opportunity, isn't that what we'd all like to say?
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« Reply #69 on: May 04, 2010, 02:15:58 PM »

Did you guys know Rachel has a 'little brother namesake' by Medalia? His name is Raphael Alejandro.....
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Absolutely amazing.......s.m.h.....
mel4600
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« Reply #70 on: May 04, 2010, 02:17:21 PM »

so even a top notch nick doesn't mean squat if the horse isn't straight!

 thumbs up thumbs up thumbs up Kiss Kiss Kiss
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swoopdaddy
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« Reply #71 on: May 04, 2010, 02:24:10 PM »

1. Very hard for me to make any kind of call without knowing what they paid.

2. Even if I did, what is a "good buy" on a broodmare? What if she is barren? What if her foals are slow -- then, a hundred bucks might not be worth it.

Go back to my earlier comments -- these people and their billions of dollars...Jess Jackson, Satish Sanan (well, before DWL, anyway), the Sheikh -- they are playing a game with which you and I have no familiarity. The best thing to do, then, is to keep your opinions to yourself about whether they are getting a "good deal" or not.
 
Besides: isn't the point of being filthy rich to not have to care much about price tags?

"I want it, I'm buying it." Given the opportunity, isn't that what we'd all like to say?
you miss my point. ive had owners who signed the dollar bills your talking about. secretary of the treasury William simon was one of my owners. george steinbrenner was another. one thing these guys care about more then money is being right. why was the green monkey 18.2 million? because two egos came together thats why. money is not the point. being right is
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« Reply #72 on: May 04, 2010, 02:27:00 PM »

You don't syndicate a mare.  screwy

Jeezus, Mel -- nothing to do here but nit-pick? You are the King of Kibbitz, the President of Putzville.

It was a GENERAL comment -- to the point of swoopdaddy not realizing or recognizing the breeding aspect of the business, and why someone might pay a bunch more for a horse than they will ever get on the racetrack.

If you are going to play the role of Mel The Corrector, at least do it to everybody, and then try to add something of value every once in awhile to keep things moving forward. (Hey, I can dream, right?)

(Hint #1: These  laughing guy laughing guy laughing guy -- NOT value-added. Wasted bandwidth. Takes time to read that none of us will ever get back.)

(Hint #2: Every time you think someone has made a snappy retort to me, and you chime in with "I agree with you  thumbs up"...and nothing else? NOT value-added. Wasted bandwidth. Takes time to read that none of us will ever get back.)
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mel4600
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« Reply #73 on: May 04, 2010, 02:33:43 PM »

Jeezus, Mel -- nothing to do here but nit-pick? You are the King of Kibbitz, the President of Putzville.

It was a GENERAL comment -- to the point of swoopdaddy not realizing or recognizing the breeding aspect of the business, and why someone might pay a bunch more for a horse than they will ever get on the racetrack.

If you are going to play the role of Mel The Corrector, at least do it to everybody, and then try to add something of value every once in awhile to keep things moving forward. (Hey, I can dream, right?)

(Hint #1: These  laughing guy laughing guy laughing guy -- NOT value-added. Wasted bandwidth. Takes time to read that none of us will ever get back.)

(Hint #2: Every time you think someone has made a snappy retort to me, and you chime in with "I agree with you  thumbs up"...and nothing else? NOT value-added. Wasted bandwidth. Takes time to read that none of us will ever get back.)


Look, I was just making a point. Now, if I were Jackson I would have bought her for $10,000,000. She has made a pretty good return for him so far and she can still earn at the track. The critical decision would be to keep racing her and have several more losses. Her foals with Curlin will bring $500,000 to $1,500,000 on average and a truly perfect one can bring quite a bit more. In either case he will recoup his investment in my opinion.
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« Reply #74 on: May 04, 2010, 02:36:28 PM »

you miss my point.

You weren't making a point. You asked (about Rachel), "did they make a good buy?" I answered that.

You can make a point directly, without being oblique. I'm reading, and responding to, exactly what you are writing.

ive had owners who signed the dollar bills your talking about. secretary of the treasury William simon was one of my owners. george steinbrenner was another. one thing these guys care about more then money is being right. why was the green monkey 18.2 million? because two egos came together thats why. money is not the point. being right is

And I alluded to that, in so many words, when I said, "what is the point of being filthy rich if you have to worry about price?"

However: Jess Jackson having tons of money doesn't mean he "overpaid" for Rachel. We simply don't know what he paid. The $10 million figure has been tossed around for almost a year now, but it's never been confirmed.
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