Chicago Barn to Wire Breeders' Cup Handicapping Tournaments
Home | News | Bloggers | Forums | Resources | Links | Marketplace | Gallery | Contact Us | Search


October 30, 2014, 01:17:46 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: If you don't remember your password, email me.

New  registration procedures -- Some ISPs have been bouncing the verification emails.  Please email me to be activated or if you have any problems.  Click Contact Us above.
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register  
Pages: 1 2 [3]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Another accolade for RA ...  (Read 2307 times)
GGNJ
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1314




Ignore
« Reply #50 on: April 05, 2010, 11:16:53 PM »

Another age-old debate. Wouldn't want to stop that now, LOL.

There is another possibility here, that might be at play. Not sure, but maybe. I am not a vet, and I don't play on TV or the internet. However, one dynamic we've seen a bit of, more in recent years than in years gone by, is the change or lack thereof in champion three year olds turning 4. Sure, there are the physical aspects but I also think there is more to it.

In today's day and age, the way some of these horses are being trained, managed, etc., with whatever programs they are getting as 3yo's, there is not so much progress, growth, strength, and more that we are seeing when they turn 4. Yes, a horse is allegedly still growing, reach maturity after 4, etc. But some of these 3yo's are peaking early, so early that maybe there is just not a lot more for them to become at 4.

How many people expected more from Curlin at 4? Like him or not, just remember where he started and where he finished. What he accomplished in his 3rd, 4th and 5th lifetime starts. The raw talent, ability was there. Didn't people expect him to muscle up, fill out, etc. at 4, maybe come back stronger, more powerful? But he didn't.

I know it's a complex discussion and perhaps a very multifaceted one, but I think that might be part of a dynamic here with many "overachiever" 3yo's. I hope that's not the case with RA.
Report to moderator   Logged
Marcus Hersh
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1103




Ignore
« Reply #51 on: April 05, 2010, 11:41:45 PM »


How many people expected more from Curlin at 4? Like him or not, just remember where he started and where he finished. What he accomplished in his 3rd, 4th and 5th lifetime starts. The raw talent, ability was there. Didn't people expect him to muscle up, fill out, etc. at 4, maybe come back stronger, more powerful? But he didn't.

Did you see the 2008 Dubai World Cup?
Report to moderator   Logged
fuzzypants
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 9416




Ignore
« Reply #52 on: April 05, 2010, 11:42:45 PM »

Well GG I took off the blinkers and read your post twice.
Very good point and I am going to really digest this one. Good food for thought. beer thumbs up thumbs up
Report to moderator   Logged

" when I get got , I get my Glock"
Alpha Mare
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 3845

OYE VEY!!!!



« Reply #53 on: April 06, 2010, 06:25:55 AM »

GG....your post is well taken, but you have to understand....the RA vs Zen and now (Zen vs Zardana) is part of the TB side...it's all debating in good fun....logic doesn't work with certain people (on purpose) and the tipsy trio ( mel, steve. niatross) like to degrade RA as much as possible to keep the 'feud' going....and us east coasters, who admire BOTH big mares,(something certain Zen fans won't do) well, we have to 'defend' RA......it's all part of life on this side....this side is much more fun with Mel (and his cronies) here.....jmho Smiley
Report to moderator   Logged

Absolutely amazing.......s.m.h.....
ZENYATTA
Guest

« Reply #54 on: April 06, 2010, 08:12:45 AM »

You can do better than this.

There is no need for me to do any better it is RA and her connections that need to do better than they have so far this year.
Much ado was made last year about RA winning x amount of G1 races including the Woodward.If the Woodward were not a graded race you surely would not be arguing that RA beat a stellar field.
Simply put graded stakes are the truest measure of greatness IMO and those of many others.Choose your point quality of the fields or quality of the race and we will debate.I do believe whether they be male or female certain races are looked at as having enhanced value for the horse breeding wise and stature wise in history.The loss to Zardana in an ungraded race made especially for her at her home track is unlikely to add anything to RA'S value or stature.
The connections need to better.Much ado was made about bringing RA back because it would be good for racing.It does no good IMO to keep her holed up and not even lay out even the general goals for the season.
RA had one of the best 3yo seasons in modern history albeit IMO against one of the weakest crops of  3yo and older in recent history.That is over and done with come this Friday she will likely be down 2 graded races to 0 Zenyatta in what looks like a long season for RA to me.
Report to moderator   Logged
Alpha Mare
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 3845

OYE VEY!!!!



« Reply #55 on: April 06, 2010, 09:14:34 AM »


RA had one of the best 3yo seasons in modern history albeit IMO against one of the weakest crops of  3yo and older in recent history.

you mean some the SAME WEAK 3 yr olds and older than Zen beat in classic?? so..your point??
Report to moderator   Logged

Absolutely amazing.......s.m.h.....
GGNJ
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1314




Ignore
« Reply #56 on: April 06, 2010, 09:32:28 AM »

GG....your post is well taken, but you have to understand....the RA vs Zen and now (Zen vs Zardana) is part of the TB side...it's all debating in good fun....logic doesn't work with certain people (on purpose) and the tipsy trio ( mel, steve. niatross) like to degrade RA as much as possible to keep the 'feud' going....and us east coasters, who admire BOTH big mares,(something certain Zen fans won't do) well, we have to 'defend' RA......it's all part of life on this side....this side is much more fun with Mel (and his cronies) here.....jmho Smiley

Oh, I get it. That's why I am not taking part in the debate, LOL. I wasn't trying to be the voice of reason or logic. Why would I want to do that? LOL.

But the point was that we don't know what we don't know. I hope RA doesn't fall into that type of scenario (the one I spoke of). That said, what I saw last year with RA was exceptional---an exceptional campaign with some super accomplishments. It was special. Period. With Zenyatta what I saw in the BC Classic was an all-time, spectacular, unequaled performance. It was special. Period. That's all.
Report to moderator   Logged
ZENYATTA
Guest

« Reply #57 on: April 06, 2010, 09:36:44 AM »

you mean some the SAME WEAK 3 yr olds and older than Zen beat in classic?? so..your point??

If you were not able to grasp my point maybe we should trade pm's to save you any further embarrasment.
Report to moderator   Logged
ChitownSteve75
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 3392




Ignore
« Reply #58 on: April 06, 2010, 10:09:14 AM »

hmm....so Zardana is NOT going in the AB fri?? funny...after she won at FG and Zen won in cali..shireffs himself SAID in the drf ...that BOTH mares were shipping for the AB as the owners of both wanted to run in it...and this was AFTER they knew RA was not going and the 5mil purse was out....sounds to me like they are afraid zardana has a good shot of beating zen....esp in that short oaklawn stretch....so now who will zen face? oaklawn claimers? the AB just lost it's desire for me to even watch......

They assumed RA was going. Zardana was ONLY GOING IF Rachel ran.
Report to moderator   Logged

ZENYATTA THE GREAT! NOT RA!
ChitownSteve75
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 3392




Ignore
« Reply #59 on: April 06, 2010, 10:10:16 AM »

Let me use one your idiotic tacts on you. How many legs of the triple crown did Z win? Enter? How many races has she entered away from cali. Add them all up and you get one. Maybe you dont care about RA, and maybe you also dont care about Rags to riches, Winning colors or Genuine risk but there are many who do.

How many BREEDRS CUP RACES did RA Win?Huh LMAO Zenyatta has TWO!  nyah
Report to moderator   Logged

ZENYATTA THE GREAT! NOT RA!
ChitownSteve75
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 3392




Ignore
« Reply #60 on: April 06, 2010, 10:14:57 AM »

I get that this is hilarious...but I guess I'm as okay with losing an ungraded race made especially for her as I would be, if say, I owned or trained a horse who was able to spend his/her entire career, less a couple of races, beating up on $50,000 claimers in optional-claiming allowances masquerading as Grade I and Grade II races.

Just because they aren't specifically written doesn't change the meat of what's actually in them. That "ungraded" race written especially for her with just five horses easily had as much talent as the Grade I race not written for a specific horse run halfway across the country.

I mean, I know it's funny to be able to put LOLmen in there on a point like that, but it's really not one where you're scoring a point of any kind because you're laughing at her for losing an ungraded race, while heralding a runner for winning a Grade I that was probably cheaper than the ungraded race...similar to lots of other Grade I and Grade II events I can think of off the top of my head out in California.

You can do better than this.

Pretty dumb coming from a guy who wants to "advance" up the latter.
Report to moderator   Logged

ZENYATTA THE GREAT! NOT RA!
ChitownSteve75
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 3392




Ignore
« Reply #61 on: April 06, 2010, 10:18:08 AM »

you mean some the SAME WEAK 3 yr olds and older than Zen beat in classic?? so..your point??

I didn't know Macho Again & Bullsbay ran in the Classic...I better go back and look!  head shake
Report to moderator   Logged

ZENYATTA THE GREAT! NOT RA!
brianwspencer
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1700




Ignore
« Reply #62 on: April 06, 2010, 11:07:21 AM »

Pretty dumb coming from a guy who wants to "advance" up the latter.

Pretty typical coming from a guy who 98% of the time has nothing to say about substance in posts and just takes personal cheap shots at those who wrote them.

And getting called dumb by a guy who can't even spell 'ladder?' Well, I can cross this priceless moment off my Bucket List.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2010, 11:12:02 AM by brianwspencer » Report to moderator   Logged
mel4600
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2307




Ignore
« Reply #63 on: April 06, 2010, 11:45:01 AM »

With Zenyatta what I saw in the BC Classic was an all-time, spectacular, unequaled performance.

That says it all!  beer
Report to moderator   Logged
mel4600
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2307




Ignore
« Reply #64 on: April 06, 2010, 11:49:24 AM »

Just think, Life is Sweet lost to St. Trinians, who was then beaten by Rendevous, who just lost to Tap It Light, who two back was beaten by One Track Mind, who was unable to keep up with a rundown Spurrier, who was nosed out in April of '09 by High Stakes Silver, a runner who since then has been beaten at Remington by Ida Bet Yukon too, who in his career was bested by Onogottogo, who was most recently seen being beaten 10 length in a $3K stakes race and getting trounced by 13 lengths against $1,250 claimers......so I think my point is that Life Is Sweet is a one thousand dollar claimer, right?

Or that's about how much of a point those kinds of comparisons have.

...and Zenyatta never lost to anyone! My point is, Rachel is a decent mare at best being a 4 time loser and wearing the Golden Sombrero for 2010!  laughing guy laughing guy
Report to moderator   Logged
Alpha Mare
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 3845

OYE VEY!!!!



« Reply #65 on: April 06, 2010, 12:32:39 PM »

I didn't know Macho Again & Bullsbay ran in the Classic...I better go back and look!  head shake

aw stevie, no one said they did.....i just used YOUR term of weak 3 yr olds and up.....Smiley
Report to moderator   Logged

Absolutely amazing.......s.m.h.....
Alpha Mare
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 3845

OYE VEY!!!!



« Reply #66 on: April 06, 2010, 12:53:02 PM »

If you were not able to grasp my point maybe we should trade pm's to save you any further embarrasment.

aw come on trossy baby.....i like having a battle wits with an unarmed opponent...... heart
Report to moderator   Logged

Absolutely amazing.......s.m.h.....
ZENYATTA
Guest

« Reply #67 on: April 06, 2010, 06:56:22 PM »

aw come on trossy baby.....i like having a battle wits with an unarmed opponent...... heart

Let me know when your arms grow back. maroon maroon maroon
Report to moderator   Logged
Alpha Mare
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 3845

OYE VEY!!!!



« Reply #68 on: April 06, 2010, 07:15:35 PM »

Let me know when your arms grow back. maroon maroon maroon

ahhh...i'm already an octopus..... maroon
Report to moderator   Logged

Absolutely amazing.......s.m.h.....
ZENYATTA
Guest

« Reply #69 on: April 06, 2010, 07:18:53 PM »

ahhh...i'm already an octopus..... maroon

Look for a pm
Report to moderator   Logged
Alpha Mare
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 3845

OYE VEY!!!!



« Reply #70 on: April 06, 2010, 07:31:11 PM »

Look for a pm


ok......i got it...and sent u one back.....
Report to moderator   Logged

Absolutely amazing.......s.m.h.....
fuzzypants
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 9416




Ignore
« Reply #71 on: April 06, 2010, 11:35:19 PM »

Great debates guys and my buddy Mare come on don't keep them all to your selves like love letters throw them out their so we all get a peep Shocked Shocked Shocked binoculars
Report to moderator   Logged

" when I get got , I get my Glock"
Pages: 1 2 [3]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.20 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.497 seconds with 16 queries.

Home
Upcoming events
Breeders' Cup
Horse slaughter in IL
Racing TV schedule
News Updates
Legislation

Galloping Out

Previous stories

Arlington
Balmoral
Hawthorne
Maywood
Chicago Sun-Times
Chicago Tribune
Blood-Horse
Daily Racing Form
Thoroughbred Times
Harness Link
Illinois Racing Board

 

2014

Breeders' Cup
Arlington Million
Triple Crown
Illinois Derby

2013

Breeders' Cup
Hawthorne Gold Cup
Arlington Million
Triple Crown
Illinois Derby

2012

Breeders' Cup
Hawthorne Gold Cup
Arlington Million
Triple Crown
Illinois Derby

More ebay items

 

Home | News Updates | Bloggers | Forums | Search
Resources | Links | Marketplace | Gallery | Advertising | Contact Us

Copyright © 2000-2014 Chicago Barn to Wire. All rights reserved.
Privacy policy