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Author Topic: Stewards Don't Enforce The Rules: How Many More Fans Driven Off As A Result?  (Read 933 times)
trottinman60
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« on: March 15, 2010, 04:18:12 AM »

Watching the 11th last night and seeing for the umpteenth time somebody just handed a hole in the first turn.  Worst part was when Sutton moved toward the spot, there was no hole.  So in the "blistering" 30 flat first quarter, not only did Roberts not attempt to keep the hole closed, he clearly intentionally opened the hole for Sutton.  Despite having the 9 hole, Sutton now is squarely in the race, and hasn't had to use his horse that hard. 
How many more fans do we lose when this happens?
How many fans conclude from this that drivers are being allowed to help one another (or worse, races are being set up)?
Why aren't the rules being enforced? Do the stewards not see this stuff?  Do they not understand how much it can affect the outcome of races?  DO THEY CARE?!?
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trottinman60
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« Reply #1 on: March 15, 2010, 04:24:38 AM »

Watching the 11th last night and seeing for the umpteenth time somebody just handed a hole in the first turn.  Worst part was when Sutton moved toward the spot, there was no hole.  So in the "blistering" 30 flat first quarter, not only did Roberts not attempt to keep the hole closed, he clearly intentionally opened the hole for Sutton.  Despite having the 9 hole, Sutton now is squarely in the race, and hasn't had to use his horse that hard. 
How many more fans do we lose when this happens?
How many fans conclude from this that drivers are being allowed to help one another (or worse, races are being set up)?
Why aren't the rules being enforced? Do the stewards not see this stuff?  Do they not understand how much it can affect the outcome of races?  DO THEY CARE?!?
Apologies to Johnny Roberts - - it was Smolin who opened the hole for Sutton.
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servicetech
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« Reply #2 on: March 15, 2010, 07:36:34 AM »

Apologies to Johnny Roberts - - it was Smolin who opened the hole for Sutton.
i had smolin on a few races the night before and he managed to open the hole,,,,,,,,, gap and do anything but be in position to win,,either the horses suck and cant keep up,,or smolin is taking care of his *** friends,,,,,,,,,,,,and i tend to believe smolin really sucks lately
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servicetech
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« Reply #3 on: March 15, 2010, 07:43:30 AM »

chicago harness is so frickeb bad,,,i don,t know  why they get supported,,,,,,,,,every race there seems to be a 4 or 5 horse break away with the rest of the pack 10 --12 lenghts back going into last turn,,,,,,,,,,and you watch maywood,the fields are so bad and weak,,some races nobody wants to win,,,they look awful coming around the last turn and there so bunched up with nobody closing,,the speed is backing up and nobody has enough horse to go around with any AUTHORITY,,,,,,,these horses don,t belong on a track for $1800,,,,,,,,,,,retire them,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,and finally we in chicago have the worst stewards period,,,,
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3 wide and wingin
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« Reply #4 on: March 15, 2010, 01:24:18 PM »

Part of it is self preservation than anything else. I have also seen some guys be at "war" with each other and screw up races that way. If everybody parks everyone else it gets tough. They also will park someone who all the others see as being a dick. Saw that happen too. Don't know what the happy medium is here.
I guess in an ideal world no one would ever cut anyone else an inch of slack. But that would be tough on the horses.
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noc
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« Reply #5 on: March 15, 2010, 01:43:03 PM »

i had smolin on a few races the night before and he managed to open the hole,,,,,,,,, gap and do anything but be in position to win,,either the horses suck and cant keep up,,or smolin is taking care of his *** friends,,,,,,,,,,,,and i tend to believe smolin really sucks lately
You may not like his drives but "*** friends" totally uncalled for.
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trottinman60
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« Reply #6 on: March 15, 2010, 02:03:33 PM »

Part of it is self preservation than anything else. I have also seen some guys be at "war" with each other and screw up races that way. If everybody parks everyone else it gets tough. They also will park someone who all the others see as being a dick. Saw that happen too. Don't know what the happy medium is here.
I guess in an ideal world no one would ever cut anyone else an inch of slack. But that would be tough on the horses.
Hey, I'm not looking for someone to play "hardball" and "park" somebody else.  I just think it looks HORRIBLE when someone clearly goes out of their way to help somebody else. 
In this case, when the guy on the outside just goes to the spot and, voila, a hole opens, it would not be unreasonable for fans to conclude it was pre-arranged.  Why do the stewards keep ignoring this?  Has the rule changed?
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« Reply #7 on: March 15, 2010, 02:11:30 PM »


         You are right about the stewards and watch the 12th race 10/14 and you will see Miss Kilowatt break stride and although not lapped on , it was an extended break where the horse is suppose to come down unless they have changed the rule , but I dont think so because they have used the rule not to long ago because I was shocked that they DQ a horse for the infraction which for quite awhile it seemed like the rule was not enforced . Now you have wonder whether the horse will stay up or come down when it happens again .

                                                RTP

        Too much power for the stewards and NO consistency in there decisions .
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bello
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« Reply #8 on: March 15, 2010, 02:34:46 PM »

Let me throw another travesty at you. This past Friday Race 3 at Maywood the #1 with Sutton broke before the race and interferred with the trailer the #9 with Delong. #9 was knocked out of the race. No recall ( which I can excuse because it all happens so fast) but also no inquiry.

They did not even review the race and they put up the official sign. The #9 was intererred with prior to the start. As far as I know that means recall. Or as Northfield has done in the past, out up the inquiry sign and take a close look, and if they deemed interference prior to the start, give a refund on the trailer.

The official charts for the race show the break by the 1 and intereferance to the 9 prior to the race.

Inexcusable behavior by the judges.
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noc
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« Reply #9 on: March 15, 2010, 03:18:24 PM »

Let me throw another travesty at you. This past Friday Race 3 at Maywood the #1 with Sutton broke before the race and interferred with the trailer the #9 with Delong. #9 was knocked out of the race. No recall ( which I can excuse because it all happens so fast) but also no inquiry.

They did not even review the race and they put up the official sign. The #9 was intererred with prior to the start. As far as I know that means recall. Or as Northfield has done in the past, out up the inquiry sign and take a close look, and if they deemed interference prior to the start, give a refund on the trailer.

The official charts for the race show the break by the 1 and intereferance to the 9 prior to the race.

Inexcusable behavior by the judges.
Inconsitency in apply the rules that are on the books...Certain drivers get taken down others never...Certain trainers and owners horse get taken down others never...TERRIBLE...
Either asleep at the wheel or protecting certain ones to the detriment of the public betting...IMO...Throw their asses out.
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Kenneth J. Chadwick
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« Reply #10 on: March 15, 2010, 03:27:56 PM »

It difficult to play the Chicago circuit.


Kenneth
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bello
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« Reply #11 on: March 15, 2010, 03:29:15 PM »

I think in the Saturday race discussed above they were just protecting themselves. They missed the interefernce and just let it go.

Not sure what is going on with these quick officials. At Yonkers they have the prices up 1/2 second after the race ends. Why when you compare it to

 Northfield, where they seem to take a real close look at all races to double check that they missed anything the first time around. I have seen late inquiries, minutes after a race ends because they saw a potential infraction they missed the first time around. I will take that scenario in a second as opposed to the nonsene at Maywood and Yonkers. It diminishes the credibitity of the game.
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servicetech
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« Reply #12 on: March 15, 2010, 04:00:11 PM »

Part of it is self preservation than anything else. I have also seen some guys be at "war" with each other and screw up races that way. If everybody parks everyone else it gets tough. They also will park someone who all the others see as being a dick. Saw that happen too. Don't know what the happy medium is here.
I guess in an ideal world no one would ever cut anyone else an inch of slack. But that would be tough on the horses.
you got a good point and a valid point about parking them out to dry,,,,,every race you expect to let some one in ,  unless your a speedball and are dead set on having that lead,,,,,,,,,,,the problem is when your horse is 2nd or third.on rail and you only have a half lenght or 3/4 lenght between your horse and the horse in front of you,,,and than your driver pulls horse back to let someone in,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,i don,t mind letting another horse in,,BUT DON,T SLOW THE HORSE DOWN to do this,,,,,,,,,the hardest thing on a horse is to slow and start up again,,,especialy these cheap one,s,,,,,,,,,,,,,90%of the horses have one move or can maintain there pace pretty well,,,,on a half mile track,,backing em off than trying to finish with a flash only happens once in awile  with the good one,s......if the pocket is partialy closed,,don,t concede position,,,,,force the outside horse to park the mile or see if they can brush to the lead,,,on 1 mile tracks,going into first turn,,not a big deal to let em in,only ion the half,s
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bdttitus
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« Reply #13 on: March 15, 2010, 05:26:16 PM »



My question why the orange pylons on the backside? can they not fix the track?
 Saturday night they had 6-7 orange pylons on the backstretch!!! got to believe this affected some of the racing strategy. But I did not hear them say anything about the pylons on the backside?  Why not?
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balmoral buddy 2
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« Reply #14 on: March 15, 2010, 05:39:06 PM »

This has nothing to do with Chicago racing - this is done everywhere - watch the Big M. Sometimes there is a valid reason - you don't want to go first over and want to follow the horse you let in, but most of the time this is not the reason.
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cll
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« Reply #15 on: March 15, 2010, 05:45:08 PM »

There is a sink hole along the rail about 1/3 of the way down the backstretch.  They put cones up on Saturday and moved the pylons out on Sunday.  The horse on the front was essentially in the three wide path.  The track is so bad through there that is why no one came first up until right before the half because you were either racing five deep or risk getting pushed three wide.  That is why you saw 31 second quarters last night.
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3 wide and wingin
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« Reply #16 on: March 15, 2010, 06:12:48 PM »

There is a sink hole along the rail about 1/3 of the way down the backstretch.  They put cones up on Saturday and moved the pylons out on Sunday.  The horse on the front was essentially in the three wide path.  The track is so bad through there that is why no one came first up until right before the half because you were either racing five deep or risk getting pushed three wide.  That is why you saw 31 second quarters last night.

Is there an allowance for that?
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bello
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« Reply #17 on: March 15, 2010, 06:45:02 PM »

In Monti in the spring the same thing would happen just after the 1/4 pole. They would put cones up to keep the driver wide.

One day I am out there watching a race and I see Tone Giovanelli boucing up and down in the bike like he was driving a bull. Turns out he ran inside the pylons and was bouncing up and down when his wheels were running over the holes.
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trottinman60
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« Reply #18 on: March 15, 2010, 09:12:20 PM »

Let me throw another travesty at you. This past Friday Race 3 at Maywood the #1 with Sutton broke before the race and interferred with the trailer the #9 with Delong. #9 was knocked out of the race. No recall ( which I can excuse because it all happens so fast) but also no inquiry.

They did not even review the race and they put up the official sign. The #9 was intererred with prior to the start. As far as I know that means recall. Or as Northfield has done in the past, out up the inquiry sign and take a close look, and if they deemed interference prior to the start, give a refund on the trailer.

The official charts for the race show the break by the 1 and intereferance to the 9 prior to the race.

Inexcusable behavior by the judges.
OK - serious question: What is the problem with the stewards?

A. They are improperly trained / don't know any better;
B. They're properly trained, but are simply not competent;
C. They really don't care / being thorough would require too much effort - - they just want to do enough to keep their jobs;
D.  They are in some way benefitting (betting? rewarded by track mgmt?) for the things they are /aren't doing;
E.  They have good reasons for not enforcing what appear to be important rules, the rest of us just aren't smart enough to understand.

Seriously, I'd like to know what others think.  I would vote C, but I really don't pretend to know.


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bello
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« Reply #19 on: March 15, 2010, 09:27:51 PM »

I would agree letter c. Lay below the radar screen and just don enough to get by and they will keep their job for life.

The only way not to lay low is for the betting public to make some noise for these bad no/calls and no/looks, and the judges know that is not going to happen. Especially since there are so few people who actually bet at the track.

Had I bet that 9 horse Race 3 at Maywood on Monday, the judges would have heard from me. Instead I lose confidence and will just stop betting those tracks.
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3 wide and wingin
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« Reply #20 on: March 15, 2010, 09:47:08 PM »

OK - serious question: What is the problem with the stewards?

A. They are improperly trained / don't know any better;
B. They're properly trained, but are simply not competent;
C. They really don't care / being thorough would require too much effort - - they just want to do enough to keep their jobs;
D.  They are in some way benefitting (betting? rewarded by track mgmt?) for the things they are /aren't doing;
E.  They have good reasons for not enforcing what appear to be important rules, the rest of us just aren't smart enough to understand.

Seriously, I'd like to know what others think.  I would vote C, but I really don't pretend to know.




Some of A B and C. Mostly B then A then a very little bit of C
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fuzzypants
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« Reply #21 on: March 15, 2010, 11:27:27 PM »

They just plain and simple STINK! cheese
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« Reply #22 on: March 16, 2010, 01:42:09 AM »

Part of it is self preservation than anything else. I have also seen some guys be at "war" with each other and screw up races that way. If everybody parks everyone else it gets tough. They also will park someone who all the others see as being a dick. Saw that happen too. Don't know what the happy medium is here.
I guess in an ideal world no one would ever cut anyone else an inch of slack. But that would be tough on the horses.

And there's a lot more self-preservation going on since purses have bottomed out. I don't see much balls-out preservation of the two-hole anymore, for example. Seems simple to me: The drivers know, in most cases, they're not sitting behind much horse.

Dave M. made a SWEEPING early move Saturday night on a favorite whose name I forget. Went around four horses in a quick burst. Had the field been remotely competitive, that would have been suicide.

Also, drivers may be getting damned sick of first quarters that sometimes exceed 30 seconds, even in "good" races. It's not the dead of winter anymore.

Actually, it would be refreshing to see an old-fashioned suicide duel again, the kind that make you say the drivers are idiots. But I don't think many horses are up to it.
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SCOOT
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« Reply #23 on: March 16, 2010, 09:25:59 AM »

Its always been like that, stop complaining and start playing something else, let me guess your the guy playing the last race at Maywood every night.
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Egyptian Torch
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« Reply #24 on: March 16, 2010, 09:49:39 AM »


My question why the orange pylons on the backside? can they not fix the track?
 Saturday night they had 6-7 orange pylons on the backstretch!!! got to believe this affected some of the racing strategy. But I did not hear them say anything about the pylons on the backside?  Why not?

They're back to doing that again? Thank god I stopped paying attention to Chicago harness racing a few years back. It is truly a shame what it has become.
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