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Author Topic: Race-Fixing Claims Probed At 3 Michigan Tracks  (Read 8521 times)
burton
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« Reply #25 on: March 05, 2010, 05:22:29 PM »

The rats and scum always seem to find each other. I am sure he regrets making so many enemies by associating with the sewer now.
I doubt it.
He posted today against the investigation in Michigan.
That could only mean one thing.
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3 wide and wingin
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« Reply #26 on: March 05, 2010, 05:26:49 PM »

I doubt it.
He posted today against the investigation in Michigan.
That could only mean one thing.

and that one thing would be?
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blue chip
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« Reply #27 on: March 05, 2010, 06:55:33 PM »

UPDATE      http://www.mlive.com/news/flint/index.ssf/2010/03/several_people_to_face_crimina.html
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noc
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« Reply #28 on: March 05, 2010, 06:59:53 PM »

WOW  Pat finds it hard to believe that anyone could fix races....Where has she/he been the last 20 or so years ?
Suspended animation. 
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burton
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« Reply #29 on: March 05, 2010, 07:12:41 PM »

and that one thing would be?
You can only come to one conclusion as to what that would be.
He associates with two known harness cheats and supports their website.
Now he's against a state police investigation into fixing races in his home state.
What would you call this loser.
No class, no integrity.
Michigan Dale is a loser.
PERIOD!!!!!
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wilderness
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« Reply #30 on: March 05, 2010, 07:14:39 PM »

WOW  Pat finds it hard to believe that anyone could fix races....Where has she/he been the last 20 or so years ?
Suspended animation.  

 The Marchand's are a multiple generation horse family.

 Dennis Marchand may be a name your recognize?

 It should be noted that Pat Marchand was just making a comment to the newspaper.
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Regards Don
Freelegged
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« Reply #31 on: March 05, 2010, 07:29:09 PM »

Wilderness..
I understand she was giving a quote to a newspaper....but there is an old saying - Better to keep your mouth shut and be thought of as a fool than to open it and remove all doubt!
this lady found it "really hard to believe" and she is "really surprised" and "doesnt know how it could happen"  Huh?

is she serious?
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3 wide and wingin
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« Reply #32 on: March 05, 2010, 07:44:49 PM »

You can only come to one conclusion as to what that would be.
He associates with two known harness cheats and supports their website.
Now he's against a state police investigation into fixing races in his home state.
What would you call this loser.
No class, no integrity.
Michigan Dale is a loser.
PERIOD!!!!!

The people who get involved with bad things need to be held accountable. I still don't understand why some people do what they do. Why would you gladly be associated with some things that cast doubt on yourself?  bang head
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Suicide_Mare
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« Reply #33 on: March 05, 2010, 09:22:29 PM »

Wilderness..
I understand she was giving a quote to a newspaper....but there is an old saying - Better to keep your mouth shut and be thought of as a fool than to open it and remove all doubt!
this lady found it "really hard to believe" and she is "really surprised" and "doesnt know how it could happen"  Huh?

is she serious?

I think someone mentioned on Page 2 about taking things out of context.  Pat Marchand's quotes in total make sense and are diplomatic.  Using "really surprised" may have been a little much.  But minus details about what's occurred I think she did alright.  Refusing to comment and have that written would have been ridiculed too.  Pat's good peeps -- and no dummy.

"really hard to believe that anyone was ABLE to fix races"
"I'm really surprised" and "I don't know how it could happen"
"There are always four judges monitoring each race and random drug testing for the horses."
"Also, horses are monitored race to race to ensure they are performing consistently"
"There are a few bad eggs in any industry but we always have honest people too"
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VicD
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« Reply #34 on: March 05, 2010, 09:45:22 PM »

When you bet places like Northville that race for small purses, you should expect cheating because nobody can survive on $1500 purses..
If a driver wins 3 of these a night and gets 2 seconds he takes home $150.
And that would be a pretty successful night of driving.
Let's give the guy $250 for the night because some of the purses would be more..
How can anyone not think that even with small pools the same driver can stay on the rail for the entire race and play 2 or 3 others he suspects will be live and cash a ticket for a few hundred..
So with little effort he can make more in 2 minutes than he would otherwise make with multiple wins and seconds..
If the pools at Sports Creek are as small as stated, then they really cannot make any money, but conversely, nobody, and I mean NOBODY should be betting there and they should fade away...
Cheating is a fact of life at these tracks, and should be factored into handicapping. Watching for irregular exacta payouts relative to the win pool is a clue..
It's just a different game betting these places...
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Freelegged
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« Reply #35 on: March 05, 2010, 09:51:56 PM »

small purses are no excuse for criminal behavior. Computer programmers in upstate NY don't make as much money as computer programmers in NY City...but that does not give them the right to commit a crime.
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Suicide_Mare
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« Reply #36 on: March 05, 2010, 10:04:06 PM »


If VicD's got it right ... what the heck were the judges doing the last 11 months?
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King Nothing
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« Reply #37 on: March 05, 2010, 10:08:26 PM »

Whenever there is prize money being offered in a competition people will inevitably look to skirt the rules to win, it's the inherent evil of man coming out. We all have the capacity to do good and evil, some resist and some find it to irresistible to pass on. Nothing surprises me any more, look at the news, look at Madoff, look at tv shows like Criminal Minds and Law and Order, many of these shows are based on true life cases. So to think people are trying to fix races at smaller purse tracks is a shock shouldn't be shocking at all. Lets hope like at tracks i've raced it's the minority trying to fix a race. It only takes 2-3 drivers to fix a race if the horses can leave the gate, just saying the rest of the drivers maybe totally innocent. And usually it's just a race a night when they do try to fix one. jmo
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Then it all crashes down
And you break your crown
And you point your finger
But there's no one around

King Nothing
VicD
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« Reply #38 on: March 06, 2010, 08:04:05 AM »

small purses are no excuse for criminal behavior. Computer programmers in upstate NY don't make as much money as computer programmers in NY City...but that does not give them the right to commit a crime.


I didn't say it was an excuse, I said it was a fact of life..
These scumbags should be shut down, NOW...
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Suicide_Mare
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« Reply #39 on: March 06, 2010, 08:35:30 AM »


I didn't say it was an excuse, I said it was a fact of life..
These scumbags should be shut down, NOW...

This recent scandal may expedite a shut down.  That's what the Governor and Gaming Control Board want anyway.  Hell, even a lot of horsemen want to officially be put out of their misery -- Racing is on/off, Fairs open/closed, Backside open/closed, Funding for State employees available/unavailable, blah blah.

It will be unfortunate, however, if bad judgment and the illegal activities of a few ... even a handful ... shut down an industry of hundreds.  Very sad.   head shake
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Dolfan
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« Reply #40 on: March 06, 2010, 12:40:37 PM »

That's approximately $2,500 per race, which includes WPS and exotics.
Now somebody please tell me where's the profit in a BIG conspiracy?

Northville does a larger handle, as does Hazel Park, however neither still offer a POT large enough to benefit the previously suggested quantity of conspirators

I love your logic, Don & have to agree with you.  It's really easy to come up with accusations & publicize corruption but as you show statistically, this will not make sense to those of us who understand pools.
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We can produce more wealth, but we cannot produce more time.  When we give someone our time, we actually give a portion of our life that we will never get back.
thewhip
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« Reply #41 on: March 06, 2010, 03:22:07 PM »

MCILMURRAY,ARTHUR L               
ORC   - SUSPENDED AND PROHIBITED FROM PARTICIPATING IN ACTIVITIES REGULATED BY ORC
Date Issued : 05-MAR-2010
Suspended From 05-MAR-2010 Indefinitely  (Full Suspension)
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King Nothing
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« Reply #42 on: March 06, 2010, 04:37:13 PM »

MCILMURRAY,ARTHUR L               
ORC   - SUSPENDED AND PROHIBITED FROM PARTICIPATING IN ACTIVITIES REGULATED BY ORC
Date Issued : 05-MAR-2010
Suspended From 05-MAR-2010 Indefinitely  (Full Suspension)

I saw that his lawyer tried to get him a stay or something and they said access denied. McIlmurray has had his detractors but i don't know what his deal is. If the ORC is involved then it's serious and they don't play when they get the goods on someone.
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Then it all crashes down
And you break your crown
And you point your finger
But there's no one around

King Nothing
Freelegged
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« Reply #43 on: March 06, 2010, 04:49:45 PM »

What don't you people understand?

People rob banks and people also rob the Dominos Pizza delivery man.
They both get charged with robbery or armed robbery. It is still a CRIME.
We had a pizza delivery guy who was shot and killed and he had about $12 in his pocket. By your thinking  the shooter probably shouldnt be charged because if we sit down and do the "math" and look at "statistics" and understand "pizza delivery money" there is no way someone would shoot the guy for this little money.
This is insane. I'm sorry but this thinking is really mental masturbation.

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3 wide and wingin
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« Reply #44 on: March 06, 2010, 04:54:15 PM »

Did you know pizza delivery is one of the 2 most dangerous jobs? Behind only policemen. We probably have all seen the guy who had the bomb tied around his neck and got blown up.
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caseopen1
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« Reply #45 on: March 06, 2010, 05:01:59 PM »

I think anyone that gets caught should be banned. That is just how I see it. I don't want to talk about Pizza Delivery Drivers or Bank Robbers. In the sport that we all love, if your caught dead to rights, your gone for good. That is what the sport needs..
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Freelegged
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« Reply #46 on: March 06, 2010, 05:19:45 PM »

I think anyone that gets caught should be banned. That is just how I see it. I don't want to talk about Pizza Delivery Drivers or Bank Robbers. In the sport that we all love, if your caught dead to rights, your gone for good. That is what the sport needs..

The point I brought up was because these people here are trying to apply common sense and rational thinking to whether or not someone would commit or attempt to commit a crime. And whether you liked the pizza delivery or bank example or not, is not the point. The point is when someone attempts to commit a crime, you can't sit there and say they didn't do it because "it doesn't make financial sense".
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Charlie Harper
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« Reply #47 on: March 06, 2010, 05:29:43 PM »

I happen to agree with FL, cheating is cheating regardless of the amount of money involved. Let the the legal system investigate and if there is enough evidence, then press charges and take them to court. If there are found guilty, throw their asses out for life. This sport has enough public relations troubles, don't need this black eye.

I did not nor will I read Michigan Dale's comment's, but I gather he is not in favor of this investigation, shocking coming from a man of his character.
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Dolfan
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« Reply #48 on: March 06, 2010, 06:14:05 PM »

The point is when someone attempts to commit a crime, you can't sit there and say they didn't do it because "it doesn't make financial sense".

Attempts?  One guy does not a fix make.  They said 30 so lets just wait & see exactly how many they come up with.

The point that Wilderness made, which I agree with is when you have a tri pool with less than $1,000 in it & you have more than one person cashing, the payoff will be VERY short.  Even if they're wrong about 30 people (& I'd bet lots of money they won't get close to naming 30) & it's "only" 1/6, that means 5 are cashing.  So they're all making $200 to fix a race?  Please be more logical than that. 

I can absolutely, definitely, positively say "it doesn't make financial sense".
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We can produce more wealth, but we cannot produce more time.  When we give someone our time, we actually give a portion of our life that we will never get back.
Freelegged
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« Reply #49 on: March 06, 2010, 06:33:22 PM »


I can absolutely, definitely, positively say "it doesn't make financial sense".

Well, luckily for some of us who want to clean up the sport, the authorities do not have the same thinking that you have. It would've been a shame if I heard them say "well it doesn't make financial sense, so lets pass on executing any search warrants". I hope they nail everyone and anyone that was even remotely involved and I hope they ruin their careers in this business. Anyone who was even slightly involved, make their lives miserable.
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