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Author Topic: calming a horse  (Read 5041 times)
Allpacers
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« on: February 18, 2010, 06:40:33 AM »

maybe someone here can help.  I have a horse that is very nervous.  He gets extremely excited when he gets harnessed and even worse when he is taken to the track.  I feel that this horse would be more competitive if he could relax and not take the race out of himself before the race.  He breaks out in a sweat from nerves in the paddock and is exhausted by the time the race goes off.  Does anyone have any ideas besides to get rid of the horse? 
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OldGreyMare
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« Reply #1 on: February 18, 2010, 07:51:31 AM »

  the groundwork exercises I do are great for calming and building the confidence of nervous horses.

  There's an exercise I do called flagging.  If I can get my videographer to endure standing in the cold, I'll try to get a video of it so you can see.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2010, 07:56:22 AM by OGM » Report to moderator   Logged

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Suicide_Mare
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« Reply #2 on: February 18, 2010, 08:35:09 AM »

OGMs gonna give you good tips.  I'll just PM you with a few suggestions about the harnessing and paddocking part.  I take care of a horse that "used to" exhibit most of the behaviors you describe plus pooping up to about 7/8 times in the paddock.  His issue was the "wanting to race part" (a good sign, not necessarily fear).  If you can try to determine if it's fear or being excited that will help determine what to do.
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dingo
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« Reply #3 on: February 18, 2010, 08:50:58 AM »

I swear by turning them out as much as possible between races. Dr. Green does wonders and the pasture time really legs them up. I also use a B-12 supplement. This also seems to help. Another thing is I never leave their side in the paddock, not even for a minute. Then they really learn to trust you. I have seen other guys put hoods on just in the paddock, not to race. It seemed to help those horses. I have also raced at a few places where they had a few paddock stalls by themselves somewhere for nervous horses. These stalls were away from the noise and confusion.
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handsomeharry76
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« Reply #4 on: February 18, 2010, 08:57:11 AM »

try wrapping a towel over his eyes

he knows you're there but doesn't see you

worked with one of mine, got him much calmer

stay away from him after he's covered

mine went side to side and was nutty in the paddock, once we covered him he calmed down
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Suicide_Mare
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« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2010, 08:26:36 PM »

What happened to this thread? -- I sent Allpacers a long PM on tips first thing this morning and nothing back.  Probably busy.  Read this thread to my trainer along with my tips and he said to Post "Just hit them on the noggin with a head pole".  He was kidding, of course.  Thought Handsome Harry's post/approach could be effective short term ... what about long term?  That's how I used to go into the paddock, with a towel over my eyes!

Dingo's post was super as well.  Does the afternoon shift want to chime in?
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tankin
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« Reply #6 on: February 18, 2010, 09:09:21 PM »

with all due respect ogm,these are not retired race hoerses or dressage horses,your nonsense about ground work is simply a crock of crap and nothing more.
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« Reply #7 on: February 18, 2010, 09:13:30 PM »

with all due respect ogm,these are not retired race hoerses or dressage horses,your nonsense about ground work is simply a crock of crap and nothing more.

Hey now, I didn't resurrect this thread for insults.  C'mon now.  I've got the pooping down to about two/three in the paddock down from 7/8.  I could use the advice also.
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handsomeharry76
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« Reply #8 on: February 18, 2010, 09:14:10 PM »

What happened to this thread? -- I sent Allpacers a long PM on tips first thing this morning and nothing back.  Probably busy.  Read this thread to my trainer along with my tips and he said to Post "Just hit them on the noggin with a head pole".  He was kidding, of course.  Thought Handsome Harry's post/approach could be effective short term ... what about long term?  That's how I used to go into the paddock, with a towel over my eyes!

Dingo's post was super as well.  Does the afternoon shift want to chime in?


my idea worked short and long term

try it

cost effective too, only the cost of a towel which you probably already have
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OldGreyMare
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« Reply #9 on: February 18, 2010, 09:16:12 PM »

with all due respect ogm,these are not retired race hoerses or dressage horses,your nonsense about ground work is simply a crock of crap and nothing more.

  The problem horses I work with aren't retired racehorses. 
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Mel from Moline
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« Reply #10 on: February 18, 2010, 09:17:01 PM »

Steady, consistant work, both in the stall and on the track. If you can turn him out early in the morning, that would help also.
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« Reply #11 on: February 18, 2010, 09:20:42 PM »

Steady, consistant work, both in the stall and on the track. If you can turn him out early in the morning, that would help also.

  Mel gets it 'cause that's exactly what it is.  I got some good video this morning to illustrate exactly what I'm doing.  I'll play with getting it online first thing tomorrow morning... if I get started now I'll end up too aggravated to sleep.
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« Reply #12 on: February 18, 2010, 09:23:59 PM »

Good stuff guys -- this was my 2 cents .... comment away.

-  rarely leave them in the paddock
-  stand close and whisper, talk quietly
-  pay attention to the things that the horse does (ears and eyes); acknowledge those things but make light of them by interacting with the horse
-  keep your breathing and heart rate as even as possible
-  wean him/her off your support gradually by standing further away, for longer periods of time, etc.

Maybe we should move this thread to Conditioning/Training?
« Last Edit: February 18, 2010, 09:45:26 PM by Suicide_Mare » Report to moderator   Logged
fairgame
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« Reply #13 on: February 18, 2010, 09:54:12 PM »

true story

 Had a filly once who was a bundle of nerves in the paddock.  Dance side to side, pop up and down, dig, couldn't stand still for a second. I always paddocked, warmed up and drove my horses all by myself and felt I couldn't leave her for a minute. I used to stand with her and try to keep her calm.  Then one night I had two in so I hired a girl to paddock the filly.  When I came back from warming up the other horse the girl had her all hooked into the bike even though her race was two races away. 

I thought sure this filly would act up and break the bike  but she didn't, she just stode there quietly on the crossties all hooked and she raced great.  After that we always just hooked her right back up after warming her up.

Not necessarily recommending this, just remembered this when I read the thread. 
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Suicide_Mare
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« Reply #14 on: February 18, 2010, 09:59:13 PM »

true story

 Had a filly once who was a bundle of nerves in the paddock.  Dance side to side, pop up and down, dig, couldn't stand still for a second. I always paddocked, warmed up and drove my horses all by myself and felt I couldn't leave her for a minute. I used to stand with her and try to keep her calm.  Then one night I had two in so I hired a girl to paddock the filly.  When I came back from warming up the other horse the girl had her all hooked into the bike even though her race was two races away. 

I thought sure this filly would act up and break the bike  but she didn't, she just stode there quietly on the crossties all hooked and she raced great.  After that we always just hooked her right back up after warming her up.

Not necessarily recommending this, just remembered this when I read the thread. 

Trying to read between the lines.  Are you thinking the change-up made a difference?

I modified my post above because of length.  But I see horses often stressed by trying to please their trainer.  Is this what you're talking 'bout?
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eggiewon
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« Reply #15 on: February 18, 2010, 10:42:19 PM »

try giving him some b1 to calm him not b12 that will fire him up more and remember most nervous horses have ulcers trteat him now might help him relax as well if his stomach isnt hurting  dont be afraid to warm him up a couple trips even turn him in 10 or 15 to take the edge off until he learns on his own to relax
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« Reply #16 on: February 18, 2010, 10:53:23 PM »

try giving him some b1 to calm him not b12 that will fire him up more and remember most nervous horses have ulcers trteat him now might help him relax as well if his stomach isnt hurting  dont be afraid to warm him up a couple trips even turn him in 10 or 15 to take the edge off until he learns on his own to relax

Hey eggie ... thanks for the input.  Wouldn't you try one thing at a time like the extra trips first before the vits?
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fairgame
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« Reply #17 on: February 19, 2010, 08:24:16 AM »

Trying to read between the lines.  Are you thinking the change-up made a difference?

I modified my post above because of length.  But I see horses often stressed by trying to please their trainer.  Is this what you're talking 'bout?

Yes, I would say the change in routine made the idfference but I can't tell you why.  I always was curious to know if this was an isolated case or something that would help other horses as well.  So if the OP wants to satisfy my curiousity then give it a try and let us know.  But I won't take responsibility for you racebike if it gets slammed into the wall.

I would say that if the horse is stressing out trying to please its boss then the boss is not asking in the right way.  I can tell you that I had a horse, draft not standardbred, that was so sensitive I couldn't work on him when I was angry at anyone.  Even if I knew  I was behaving deliberatly outwardly  calm around the horse despite my inner turmoil which worked with most horses he could sense it and would be very jumpy.  And believe me you don't want to work around a jumpy draft who already had issues about his legs being touched.

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Mel from Moline
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« Reply #18 on: February 19, 2010, 09:24:20 AM »

  Mel gets it 'cause that's exactly what it is.  I got some good video this morning to illustrate exactly what I'm doing.  I'll play with getting it online first thing tomorrow morning... if I get started now I'll end up too aggravated to sleep.



Thank you, thank you very much(Elvis voice).....while Eggie's points are good also, YOU have to be solid, consistant and make the horse believe in YOU. Then he will calm down.
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« Reply #19 on: February 19, 2010, 10:45:20 AM »

Thank you, thank you very much(Elvis voice).....while Eggie's points are good also, YOU have to be solid, consistant and make the horse believe in YOU. Then he will calm down.

While I absolutely agree that it is important to make the horse believe that you are fearless in the face of perceived dangers and will protect them I'm not sure if that is the dynamic needed here to calm down a horse that essentially is exhibiting stage fright nerves.  Maybe tell him to imagine all of the other horses naked?  J/K

But for horses that are prone to looking for things to spook at rather than try to calm them down with soothing words which I think only makes them feel their fear is justified I usually have more success putting dripping sarcasm in my voice and say something like, "Your kidding, your afraid of THAT?"

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« Reply #20 on: February 19, 2010, 11:59:25 AM »

 I sincerely apologize for that rooster.  He is the bane of my existence right now.  Follows me around and attacks me whenever I'm not paying attention.  Can anyone say "crockpot"?

Here's your videos:

  This one is the basic groundwork you must master before attempting the flag exercise.  I usually do the flag about 10 days in... and it takes me about 3 days to get to the point the horse allows me to touch him with it.  This is the same horse from the 4 part Sending series.  Now been here about a month.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KtjbloBjVwQ&feature=channel

  Here's the actual Flagging exercise.  We initially learned this about a week ago and it was quite the rodeo.  Wish I had had the video on for that.  Her first instinct is to fight and she was convinced that plastic bag was going to eat her alive.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDfj6Eky3b4


But for horses that are prone to looking for things to spook at rather than try to calm them down with soothing words which I think only makes them feel their fear is justified I usually have more success putting dripping sarcasm in my voice and say something like, "Your kidding, your afraid of THAT?"


 

Fairgame, think this horse has potential for a therapy horse now?  I have another video flagging John's colt.  I'll upload that later.  I would rather KNOW I have the horse's respect and obedience rather than hoping for it.

  I'll be back later if anyone has any questions.  How I actually got this horse to this point?.... well... that info might cost ya.  Cheesy
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« Reply #21 on: February 19, 2010, 04:16:07 PM »

  Here's John's colt.  He's a spooky type horse.  Colt skittish.  Took me 3 days, about a week ago, haven't done it since.  This was fresh out of the stall.  You can see he isn't sure and doesn't like it, but he takes it.  I'll build on that slowly.  We have to go to the track soon and it's a pain in the ass having to ask someone to help hook and unhook.  I need my horses to be dependable.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-5IHLyNhkA
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fairgame
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« Reply #22 on: February 19, 2010, 05:34:08 PM »

second and third video are marked private.

I never said I thought the horse didn't have potential so I don't know what you mean by NOW.  You know I would like to see more standardbreds make inroads in the therapy world.
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« Reply #23 on: February 19, 2010, 05:48:04 PM »

skin pop b12 1/2 a cc  right under the skin   in the forehead and cheeks ..
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« Reply #24 on: February 19, 2010, 05:48:49 PM »

my bad .... b1
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« Reply #25 on: February 19, 2010, 06:12:14 PM »

  Fixed it, I think.  Thought I marked it public, but maybe I didn't hit the "save changes" button.  It must default to private.

 
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« Reply #26 on: February 21, 2010, 08:06:54 AM »

Fixed it, I think.  Thought I marked it public, but maybe I didn't hit the "save changes" button.  It must default to private.
 

OGM, I watched all of your videos over the last couple of days with great interest.  Thank you for sharing them with members.  I certainly wished I lived closer to you as I would have sent you a squirrely little jader a couple years ago.  The horse has calmed significantly with age but your techniques and handling might have saved us some tense episodes.  Everyone survived and nobody was hurt. 

Good stuff from everyone on this thread!!   thumbs up  I'm going to ask Janine to move this to Conditioning/Training forum -- would hate to loose it ... hope everyone agrees.
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« Reply #27 on: February 21, 2010, 09:45:23 AM »

  Another example:  yesterday I had just brought that big mare out into the arena, she was standing facing me with her back to the open, outside wall.  A slab of snow slid off the roof and spooked her.  She reared up, but kept her front legs tucked to her belly, then leaped to the side away from me, and bolted around me.  She didn't pull on the rope to get away, she just put me in between her and the scary object.  3 weeks ago she would have had no qualms about plowing over top of me. 
  That's just another of many, many times that Exercise 1: "Stay Out of My Space" has saved me from serious injury.
  It takes years of work and age before a horse could be completely bombproof, but if all we accomplish is that you don't jump on me when you do spook, that's enough.  I would think anybody that works with horses would see the value in that.
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« Reply #28 on: February 21, 2010, 02:47:14 PM »

  Another example:  yesterday I had just brought that big mare out into the arena, she was standing facing me with her back to the open, outside wall.  A slab of snow slid off the roof and spooked her.  She reared up, but kept her front legs tucked to her belly, then leaped to the side away from me, and bolted around me.  She didn't pull on the rope to get away, she just put me in between her and the scary object.  3 weeks ago she would have had no qualms about plowing over top of me. 
  That's just another of many, many times that Exercise 1: "Stay Out of My Space" has saved me from serious injury.
  It takes years of work and age before a horse could be completely bombproof, but if all we accomplish is that you don't jump on me when you do spook, that's enough.  I would think anybody that works with horses would see the value in that.

Again, I think the work you do is amazing and of utmost importance.  So often I see Trainers of Racehorses not have the time,  patience or facilities to work thru the basic things you mention.  The arena videos are very helpful.  I like the pop-ups you've added to some (helps viewer follow along) and could really hear your voice when working with John's colt.  He's a steady little sort isn't he, I love that young'in stature (he looks like he really trusts you too).  Good job. 

I can't watch that one anymore with sound -- the rooster makes my dogs go nuts!!  LOL.
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Exbourne
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« Reply #29 on: February 21, 2010, 06:36:36 PM »

An Empty Jug Outside the stall..The horse will play with it.Keep the horse busy and mabey will relax.
A long shot but has worked before with one of my TBS
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« Reply #30 on: February 21, 2010, 06:41:46 PM »

As far as race time, ACTH-B1 about 4 hours out should do the trick.  Have done this with new horses that are kinda "crazy".  Should only have to do this a couple times as the horse will adapt to the pre-race set-up.  Just alittle something to take the edge off until they have enough trust in you.  Because basically thats usually all it is.
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« Reply #31 on: February 22, 2010, 02:44:37 AM »

As far as race time, ACTH-B1 about 4 hours out should do the trick.  Have done this with new horses that are kinda "crazy".  Should only have to do this a couple times as the horse will adapt to the pre-race set-up.  Just alittle something to take the edge off until they have enough trust in you.  Because basically thats usually all it is.
Mints and time has worked also 4 me..Not being a dreamer..Try the jug 1st
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« Reply #32 on: March 02, 2010, 05:57:18 AM »

The videos that OGM are posting should be required viewing for all horsepeople.

New to the game or otherwise.

Thank you OGM

TS
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« Reply #33 on: March 02, 2010, 06:28:35 AM »

Hey TS -- I'm sure OGM will see you're thanks.  I don't mean to pounce on your post but you made me catch up on this thread (since we're the only folks awake and posting)!  LOL.

I wanted to add a morning funny about play toys for an active horse to Exbourne's point on the plastic hanging jug.  They are cheap and go along way.  Those apple hanging things are good too.  A bungy cord on the stall gate can be a great distraction, and who knows your horse may learn to strum it a little (mine does).  You probably know about the construction cones, very useful.  Get the right size for your horse.  Basketballs, footballs, too.

This goofy horse I know will occupy himself given a variety of toys.  A while back we enter the Barn in the morning and two corn cobs were picked off the floor and placed him in his empty feed bucket, the cone was outside his gate standing upright in front of his stall like it was a construction zone ... and somehow the basketball was floating in the water bucket.  Now, if that's not a horse party, what is ?? 

Have a great day everyone !!
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« Reply #34 on: March 06, 2010, 01:51:06 AM »

What if the horse is just plain and simply nervous. I understand the groundwork stuff but i feel that that cures them of bein afraid of things. Maybe it is all connected but i've got one that doesnt spook at stuff hes just nervous no matter how much work you put on him or how little. No facilities at the track to turn him out or i would.

Tannor
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« Reply #35 on: March 06, 2010, 10:21:49 AM »

  Probably the kind of horse who, if he was out in the herd, would be near the bottom of the pecking order.  He needs a more dominant horse to follow, keep him safe from the wolves so to speak.  Being separated from the herd creates a lot of stress for a horse like this.  Doing the groundwork shows him that you are someone he can trust to be the leader.  Once he has that assurance, his anxieties will diminish.
  This is why turning out as suggested works, especially if you turn him out with others.  Safety in numbers.  I don't know if turning out alone would work.  He'ld probably run the fence and basically tire himself out rather than calm down.

   I have to give a lot of credit to my riding horses for helping me with these problem horses.  They are very mellow and calm, great for destressing the racehorses.  If I have a really bad horse, I'll do a lot of ponying off one of them... then when they score down, have the driver go right to the outrider.

  Chris Cox, my favorite NH guy, who works with wild mustangs and total outlaws destined for the killers, actually does groundwork while riding his stud horse, Pepto.   The horse responds totally to leg commands, leaving Chris's hands free.  Quite something to see.
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« Reply #36 on: April 01, 2010, 06:27:47 AM »

  New horse.  Very nervous mare.  Runs in and out of doors, hard to bridle*.  Tries to commit suicide on the trailer.
  Working with her at the track because of the trailer issues.  Hopefully we can fix that, as turn-out with the herd and fresh green grass would be ideal.
   First day did basic groundwork.  Sweetheart to work with.  Advanced all the way to tossing the rope over and around her.  Stiff at the flex, but most Standardbreds are..   Got her dropping her head with the poll pressure cue.  She's really insecure and looking for someone to trust.
   I would imagine she's a tie-up horse so we'll see if these de-stressing exercises will improve her from the $5000 claimer she currently is.

  * Has that fungussy crap in her ears.  Any suggestions how to clear that up once I get to where I can touch them?
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« Reply #37 on: April 01, 2010, 06:46:17 AM »

      * Has that fungussy crap in her ears.  Any suggestions how to clear that up once I get to where I can touch them?


pink swat 

sticks better than the white, easy to apply too  because it sticks to your thumb too until you can swipe it in there
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