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Author Topic: CLAIMING A HORSE THAT'S SCRATCHED !!  (Read 2372 times)
Homestretch
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« on: February 17, 2010, 08:55:43 AM »

I ALMOST CLAIMED ONE, ALTHOUGH IT OCCURED TO ME, THE TRAINER DISCOVERED THERE WERE GOING TO BE MULTIPLE CLAIMS, AND SCRATCHED HIM FOR THAT REASON ALONE !!!!

WHAT ARE THE RULES IN YOUR STATE ??
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« Reply #1 on: February 17, 2010, 08:59:00 AM »

  There's always 2 sets of rules:  one for the little guy and one for the big guys.
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« Reply #2 on: February 17, 2010, 09:04:04 AM »

In NY, I remember the rule to be the horse was eligible to be claimed for the entered, scratched tag for up to 30 days. No matter what class or tag he is entered for at that track.
 I say that is how I remember it because it may have been modified since I worked for the RWB.
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« Reply #3 on: February 17, 2010, 09:05:32 AM »

In every jurisdiction I ever raced in: In the event a scratched horse is claimed, a trainer must make arrangements to deliver the claimed horse expeditiously to the claimant with all expenses of said delivery to be incurred by the original trainer. I am sure if it did not happen to the expectations of the successful claimant the judges would step in immediately and ensure said delivery would be done immediately.
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« Reply #4 on: February 17, 2010, 09:14:11 AM »

  That's supposed to be the rule, however, 2 years ago a friend drove up from Long Island to claim a horse.   Horse was scratched.  Was told he could claim the horse next time it raced for the original claim tag... IF  1.  Horse raced back within 30 days AND horse raced in PA.  Horse raced in Jersey instead.  After 30 days returned to PA for a higher tag.
   Now if the situation was reversed, do you think the Long Island guy would have gotten away with that?
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Homestretch
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« Reply #5 on: February 17, 2010, 09:18:47 AM »

In every jurisdiction I ever raced in: In the event a scratched horse is claimed, a trainer must make arrangements to deliver the claimed horse expeditiously to the claimant with all expenses of said delivery to be incurred by the original trainer. I am sure if it did not happen to the expectations of the successful claimant the judges would step in immediately and ensure said delivery would be done immediately.
That's the rule in New Jersey, but I was wondering about different areas of the Country also.

One of my horses was claimed a few weeks ago by Casie Coleman at the Meadowlands for 60K.
She dropped him in for the same price, and then there was a late scratch.
Tough decision cause you don't know what happened during that week, so we passed.
It turnes out, her groom trained the wrong horse all week, and delivered same to the paddock where the tatoo revealed the mistake, so the Horse was scratched !!!

He was claimed the following week by Carmine, and has not raced well yet.
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Homeboyhanover
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« Reply #6 on: February 17, 2010, 09:25:53 AM »

You one lucky guy, John.
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Homestretch
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« Reply #7 on: February 17, 2010, 09:29:41 AM »

You one lucky guy, John.
Maybe,
Jean was getting along real well with Windsong Destroyer, and maybe the new trainer needs a few starts with him.
Hopefully WD will once again prove that he is a better then average race horse !!
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« Reply #8 on: February 17, 2010, 09:36:01 AM »

John, I have raced in the following states: MI, IN, IL, VA, CA, and the province of Ontario. I am sure that every one of those jurisdictions had/have the same rule. My life dream was to have a horse good enough to race at M1. I never did fulfill that dream, however two of my horses that I sold did race there and fared very well.
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Homestretch
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« Reply #9 on: February 17, 2010, 09:42:18 AM »

John, I have raced in the following states: MI, IN, IL, VA, CA, and the province of Ontario. I am sure that every one of those jurisdictions had/have the same rule. My life dream was to have a horse good enough to race at M1. I never did fulfill that dream, however two of my horses that I sold did race there and fared very well.
AHH YES, THE GOOD OLD DAYS WHEN AN OWNERS DREAM WAS TO RACE AT THE BIG M !!!!!!

WELL THINGS HAVE CERTINALY CHANGED OVER THE YEARS.
ONCE POCONO AND CHESTER OPEN, MOST OF THE GOOD ONE'S WILL LEAVE, AND WE'LL SOON BE WATCHING 7,500 CLAIMERS WITH 7 HORSE FIELDS !!

TO MUCH COMPETITION FROM ALL THE SURROUNDING SLOT RICH STATES.
MEADOWLANDS IS SURROUNDED BY YONKERS, POCONO, CHESTER, AND DOVER DOWNS.
CUSTER WILL FALL EVENTUALLY, CAUSE HE'S RUNNING OUT OF BULLETS !!!

HOPE YOU OBTAIN YOUR GOAL SOMEDAY !!
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« Last Edit: February 17, 2010, 09:45:21 AM by Homestretch » Report to moderator   Logged
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« Reply #10 on: February 17, 2010, 09:49:56 AM »

Thanks John, sadly there will be no chance of me fulfilling that dream. I retired in 2005 from General Motors, sold the farm, all the horses, equipment, etc. and moved to south Florida. I used to fly to The Big M every year for the Meadowlands Pace weekend, being there was a thrill,racing there would have truly been a dream come true. Good luck with your horses John, I follow them and root and cheer for you everytime they race. You will need to get some more now since you lost Destroyer and Fire.
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Homestretch
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« Reply #11 on: February 17, 2010, 01:15:47 PM »

Thanks John, sadly there will be no chance of me fulfilling that dream. I retired in 2005 from General Motors, sold the farm, all the horses, equipment, etc. and moved to south Florida. I used to fly to The Big M every year for the Meadowlands Pace weekend, being there was a thrill,racing there would have truly been a dream come true. Good luck with your horses John, I follow them and root and cheer for you everytime they race. You will need to get some more now since you lost Destroyer and Fire.
We did claim "JL'S Man Of Action" a few weeks ago and finished a pretty good 3rd last week, the only one with pace at the end of the mile.
They draw today for Saturday, and he should get in.
I'll keep you posted.
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« Reply #12 on: February 17, 2010, 01:31:17 PM »

just to clear some things up. lets say there is one minute to post and you have a claim in on the 4 horse  at the big m. the driver of the 4 brings him off the track and says hes lame , you got to scratch him. ok hes scratched lame. if you, the claimant, dont call the judges before off time of that race and tell them personally that you dont want the horse. you will own him after the race. just because he is scratched does not automatically void the claim in this situation.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2010, 01:32:58 PM by swoopdaddy » Report to moderator   Logged
Homestretch
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« Reply #13 on: February 17, 2010, 01:42:57 PM »

just to clear some things up. lets say there is one minute to post and you have a claim in on the 4 horse  at the big m. the driver of the 4 brings him off the track and says hes lame , you got to scratch him. ok hes scratched lame. if you, the claimant, dont call the judges before off time of that race and tell them personally that you dont want the horse. you will own him after the race. just because he is scratched does not automatically void the claim in this situation.
That's a good question Swoop.
To the best of my knowledge, once the judges have the claim, there's no way to void it.
If the horse dies on the track during the warmup, I think the claimant owns him.
Never seen it happen though.
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« Reply #14 on: February 17, 2010, 02:14:37 PM »

I claimed one that had a slab fracture after the race. Never raced again. That was a tough one to swallow.
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« Reply #15 on: February 17, 2010, 02:24:37 PM »

if the guy that has the claimin doesnt want the horse after the scratch. you may have only a minute depending when hes scratched. the guy with the claim in must call the judges before the race starts.he can then void the claim. he doesnt call the judge he will own him. this has happened. one night noel daley has a claim in on a horse.before the race he colics in the paddock at the big m and has to go to new bolton. noel leaves thinking his claim is void. th nexy day new bolton call noel up to tell him his horse will be okay. noel says its not my horse. but it was because he didnt call the judges to void it before off time for that race. later that year croghan has  claim in on a horse called new bolton. campbell brings him off the track and say s he isjust to sore to go. croghan calls the judge  and asks him what are his options. the judge says the race is going il talk to you after the race and hangs up.  the race goes and now its a big mess because ross called the judge and he never got the chance to void it because the judge hung up on him. the original trainer kept the horse and the claim was voided.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2010, 02:40:34 PM by swoopdaddy » Report to moderator   Logged
Homestretch
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« Reply #16 on: February 17, 2010, 02:33:51 PM »

if the guy that has the claimin doesnt want the horse after the scratch. you may have only a minute depending when hes scratched. the guy with the claim in must call the judges before the race starts.he can then void the claim. he doesnt call the judge he will own him. this has happened. one night noel daley has a claim in on a horse.before the race he colics in the paddock at the big m and has to go to new bolton. noel leaves thinking his claim is void. th nexy day new bolton call noel up to tell him his horse will be okay. noel says its not my horse. but it was because he didnt call the judges to void it before off time for that race. later that year croghan has  claim in on a horse called new bolton. campbell brings him off the track and say s he isjust to sore to go. croghan calls the judge  and asks him what are his options. the judge says the race is going i talk to after he raceand hangsup.  the race goes and now its a big mess because ross called the judge and he never got the chance to void it because thejudge hung up on him. the original trainer kept the horse and the claim was voided.
Thanks for the Info.
I didn't know that. 
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« Reply #17 on: February 17, 2010, 03:32:00 PM »

I know that you own the horse once he has gone behind the starting gate and has started. If he's hurt or worse before that then there would be no claim. If he's injured or worse after the start then he's the new owners property. Once knew a guy who claimed one at Laurel for $30k and the horse broke a leg at the finish, he lost it all plus expenses for removal. If a scratched horse is claimed around here you are supposed to try to bring the horse to the track the next morning i believe and the claimant may examine them and decide if they want them, with exceptions if the horse can't be moved for medical reasons. This rarely happens, most don't want to take the risk that he was scratched sick but is really lame.
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« Reply #18 on: February 17, 2010, 03:46:11 PM »

I know that you own the horse once he has gone behind the starting gate and has started. If he's hurt or worse before that then there would be no claim. If he's injured or worse after the start then he's the new owners property. Once knew a guy who claimed one at Laurel for $30k and the horse broke a leg at the finish, he lost it all plus expenses for removal. If a scratched horse is claimed around here you are supposed to try to bring the horse to the track the next morning i believe and the claimant may examine them and decide if they want them, with exceptions if the horse can't be moved for medical reasons. This rarely happens, most don't want to take the risk that he was scratched sick but is really lame.
in nj if the man with the claim in does not call the judge the claim would go forth at off time of the race. IT IS NOT AUTOMATICALLY VOID JUST BECAUSE THE HORSE IS A NONSTARTER
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« Reply #19 on: February 17, 2010, 03:55:38 PM »

We did claim "JL'S Man Of Action" a few weeks ago and finished a pretty good 3rd last week, the only one with pace at the end of the mile.
They draw today for Saturday, and he should get in.
I'll keep you posted.
   thumbs up  I will be watching for him, all the best,  Jim
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« Reply #20 on: February 17, 2010, 04:03:31 PM »

if the guy that has the claimin doesnt want the horse after the scratch. you may have only a minute depending when hes scratched. the guy with the claim in must call the judges before the race starts.he can then void the claim. he doesnt call the judge he will own him. this has happened. one night noel daley has a claim in on a horse.before the race he colics in the paddock at the big m and has to go to new bolton. noel leaves thinking his claim is void. th nexy day new bolton call noel up to tell him his horse will be okay. noel says its not my horse. but it was because he didnt call the judges to void it before off time for that race. later that year croghan has  claim in on a horse called new bolton. campbell brings him off the track and say s he isjust to sore to go. croghan calls the judge  and asks him what are his options. the judge says the race is going il talk to you after the race and hangs up.  the race goes and now its a big mess because ross called the judge and he never got the chance to void it because the judge hung up on him. the original trainer kept the horse and the claim was voided.
If New Jersey would have followed USTA rules there would have been no problem.
USTA Rule  10 sub 3 j,
Title to the claimed horse shall be vested in the successful claimant from the time the word "go" is given.
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I am just an old "Hoss" trainer, that has been raced hard and put away wet. 
As my Friend from Maine(Ora Stratton) says "There are horse trainers, and then there are real "Hoss" trainers.
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« Reply #21 on: February 17, 2010, 04:05:33 PM »

  thumbs up  I will be watching for him, all the best,  Jim
ON THE T BRED SIDE, WE HAVE OVEREXTENDED RACING IN THE 8TH RACE AT AQUEDUCT ON SATURDAY !!
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« Reply #22 on: February 17, 2010, 04:05:52 PM »

That's a good question Swoop.
To the best of my knowledge, once the judges have the claim, there's no way to void it.
If the horse dies on the track during the warmup, I think the claimant owns him.
Never seen it happen though.

The USTA rule says that the horse is the claiments once the word GO is given.  If the horse is scratched, you either can't have the horse or will have a choice to take him or not.  In Pa. you may claim the horse from any race for thirty days after the scratch.
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« Reply #23 on: February 17, 2010, 04:28:48 PM »

 In Pa. you may claim the horse from any race for thirty days after the scratch.
I am not clear on what you are saying.
Do you mean that if I have a claim in and the horse is scratched I may take the horse anytime in the next thirty days?
What if the horse wins his next two starts at a higher tag, can I still now say he is mine at the lesser money?
I don't think that can possibly be right.
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I am just an old "Hoss" trainer, that has been raced hard and put away wet. 
As my Friend from Maine(Ora Stratton) says "There are horse trainers, and then there are real "Hoss" trainers.
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« Reply #24 on: February 17, 2010, 04:35:46 PM »

ON THE T BRED SIDE, WE HAVE OVEREXTENDED RACING IN THE 8TH RACE AT AQUEDUCT ON SATURDAY !!
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[/quote
John, How many horses do you currently have racing or in training and what are all their names? I have never owned a T/B, but I boarded some on my farm for T/B owners. The T/B is a beautiful animal, my favorite was a gun metal colored gelding that was turned out at our farm for a few months.....he was a real athlete.
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