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Author Topic: I just want to say.....  (Read 2789 times)
Alpha Mare
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« Reply #50 on: February 06, 2010, 03:12:59 AM »

Pay attention! Who ever made that statement?



   
   
Re: I just want to say.....
Reply #28 on: Today at 01:03:25 AM
   
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Quote from: straight shot on February 05, 2010, 10:45:38 PM
If you owned a turf horse would you run it on dirt?

If I had a turf horse who had one start on the dirt and won, I would surely run him again on the dirt, wouldn't you?

it was a COMPARISON...we had been talking about curlin's BC on the pro ride.......he had never been on it...they tried and it falied...RA has never been on PRO RIDE....they opted not to make the same mistake twice......
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« Reply #51 on: February 06, 2010, 03:23:06 AM »

When I bet on horses I do like the turf to dirt maybe first time.
But I have found just my own personal experience is some horses   feet get stingy on the dirt and they have to get back on the turf to stay sound. Now I am not saying true for all horses just one I was involved with. So again to many variables. But I have had a silver bullet so I am feeling the fuzz! I mean buzz.
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« Reply #52 on: February 06, 2010, 04:48:59 AM »

Sorry mel watching the race will not help me. I am not a keen eye like yourself. I can only go by pps. And those tell me that in two runnings of the bc classic at SA on synth, the horses who ran itm many  had turf influence. As for an excuse, I am not at all sure what you are talking about. The owner does not like synth. If you owned a turf horse would you run it on dirt? Maybe you might try, but if you had a bad experience on dirt you would probably say screw it. Thats not an excuse its a principle. Mr Jackson has clearly stated he would not run her there.
you can't argue with a pompous ass who thinks it knows what the hell it's talking about.... Mel just has a hate complex about everything Jackson... can't change that
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ZENYATTA
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« Reply #53 on: February 06, 2010, 10:13:05 AM »

one name you dont hear is hal wiggins and the job he did. he made a decision like the owner of war emblem also did. i dont think he wanted to sell but couldnt afford not to.

I think that is part of the problem with the sport / business.If you have enough cash you can buy whatever whenever ala the Yankees.IMO too many of the good ones end up in to few hands and barely race against each other all season.Then they are off to the breeding sheds.The only horses who now race as 4yos usually were hurt at 3 or of lesser talent.All the publicity is focused on the 3yos and poof they are gone.
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« Reply #54 on: February 06, 2010, 12:08:54 PM »

I think that is part of the problem with the sport / business.If you have enough cash you can buy whatever whenever ala the Yankees.IMO too many of the good ones end up in to few hands and barely race against each other all season.Then they are off to the breeding sheds.The only horses who now race as 4yos usually were hurt at 3 or of lesser talent.All the publicity is focused on the 3yos and poof they are gone.
absolutely spot on as far as the colts go... sometimes mares go to 4 or 5 though. what are you really losing? 1 breeding.. as long as its a down market at the sales there's more money to be made on the racetrack than there is by selling 1 foal.
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« Reply #55 on: February 06, 2010, 12:17:27 PM »

absolutely spot on as far as the colts go... sometimes mares go to 4 or 5 though. what are you really losing? 1 breeding.. as long as its a down market at the sales there's more money to be made on the racetrack than there is by selling 1 foal.
its not just 1 foal. what ive seen are the mares that race later on arent always as productive as the younger ones. especially with standardbreds. what happens if the mare doesnt get in foal. then she is 6 or 7 before the first foal hits the ground. its not as easy as, ill race this year and have a baby the next.
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« Reply #56 on: February 06, 2010, 09:28:11 PM »

Yes and no swoop.
Usually the grandaughters are. Depending on the the sire of the mares filly.
I want mares to have a brood mare type sire.
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« Reply #57 on: February 06, 2010, 09:34:15 PM »

Yes and no swoop.
Usually the grandaughters are. Depending on the the sire of the mares filly.
I want mares to have a brood mare type sire.
please explain what you mean "usually the grandaughters are"
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« Reply #58 on: February 06, 2010, 09:55:08 PM »

Great Secretariat was a brood mare sire.
Seattle  Slew was a brood mare sire and a sire of sires.
Buckpasser was a great brood mare sire. Mr Prospector sire of sires, and brood mares. Storm Cat sire of sires and some brood mares.
So if I am buying a mare and she is a Stakes place mare.
I look to see what her sires line has produced if any brood mares.
I also will breed her to a horse that is usually sires better fillies. Hoping to get a filly. But any way I don't buy a foal or yearling  unless the mare is a runner. Or the mares mother is a runner or good producer.
I don't know if I have answered your question. Or have explained my self very well.

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« Reply #59 on: February 06, 2010, 10:06:31 PM »

Great Secretariat was a brood mare sire.
Seattle  Slew was a brood mare sire and a sire of sires.
Buckpasser was a great brood mare sire. Mr Prospector sire of sires, and brood mares. Storm Cat sire of sires and some brood mares.
So if I am buying a mare and she is a Stakes place mare.
I look to see what her sires line has produced if any brood mares.
I also will breed her to a horse that is usually sires better fillies. Hoping to get a filly. But any way I don't buy a foal or yearling  unless the mare is a runner. Or the mares mother is a runner or good producer.
I don't know if I have answered your question. Or have explained my self very well.


got ya, i think you misunderstood me. wings said might as well race her because of the economy and the money she could earn. i said it has been my experience with standardbreds that mares that race hard for an extended period of time do not seem to produce like mares that are retired early in their career. my point was that if you breed a 6 yo mare and she doesnt catch you are looking at a first foal from a 7 yo mare. i dont know if it means anything it was just an observation on racehorses mares going to the shed for the first time later on in life
« Last Edit: February 06, 2010, 10:29:37 PM by swoopdaddy » Report to moderator   Logged
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« Reply #60 on: February 06, 2010, 10:31:08 PM »

Sorry yes I read into it wrong.
But Standardbreds are going to the shed much younger.
Looks like most of them go after a 2 and 3 year old stakes career.
It seems in Standardbreds that most money made with state sire stakes.With a successful 2 and 3 year old year they are off to the shed.I have also seen them sold and exported.
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« Reply #61 on: February 07, 2010, 12:23:24 AM »

Interesting take. Jackson is gutless? He ponies up $10 million for a horse, and even before he buys it tells all the horse will not be running on synth. He sends the horse all over the country races males and older males with his filly. Now thats my kind of gutless. On the other hand Moss said he would run on dirt again, but didnt. He also said he would ship, but didnt. No his horse remained at home for the last two years. If jackson is gutless where does that leave moss? Assmussen maybe. RA has not had the oppurtunity yet. But if you consider zen beating the same goofs over and over at equal or higher weight an accomplishment, well its no wonder the type of zen fans that are out there. My guess is D due to one participants unwillingness to leave home.
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« Reply #62 on: February 07, 2010, 12:33:45 AM »

Mr Jackson deserves to have a wonderfull horse like Rachel the Great. Yes he put up 10 million.
But in the past he was very much taken advantage of by trainers and agents buying horses for him. 
He still had the heart and GUTS to put up 10 million for Rachel when most owners would have said goodbye to this business.
I am Thankfull he didn't and has been blessed with this wonderful mare.
So to me this kind of behavior to him is very uncalled for.
 Queen Zen is still my favorite. Best wishes to the Rachel Camp.
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« Reply #63 on: February 07, 2010, 12:39:31 AM »

Mr Jackson deserves to have a wonderfull horse like Rachel the Great. Yes he put up 10 million.
But in the past he was very much taken advantage of by trainers and agents buying horses for him.  
He still had the heart and GUTS to put up 10 million for Rachel when most owners would have said goodbye to this business.
I am Thankfull he didn't and has been blessed with this wonderful mare.
So to me this kind of behavior to him is very uncalled for.
 Queen Zen is still my favorite. Best wishes to the Rachel Camp.

Great post fuzzy -- I've said here multiple times before that I'm not the biggest Jess Jackson fan. He can come off as more than a little self-important and may use more than a few too many superlatives for his best horses....but there is no way I'll ever think he's anything but good for the game. He took Curlin to the BC against his gut instinct. He gave us a magnificent show with Rachel last year -- her running against fillies all year with her former connections wouldn't have made her any less great than she is, but we got to see things that we simply just don't get to see anymore because Jess Jackson ponied up, so to speak, and trotted his filly out in spots that 99% of owners would never dream of, and he did it over and over, not just once.

So can he rub people the wrong way? Sure. I'd never dispute that. But I think it's unequivocally unfair and disingenuous to suggest that he's anything but good for this game and that he's anything but a great ambassador for this game. I'd love to shake his hand some day and thank him for what he's done.

His wine isn't terrible, either Cheesy
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« Reply #64 on: February 07, 2010, 01:08:41 AM »

I've had many a hangover from it so its got to be good.
Thankyou Brian and we need more owners like Mr Jackson at every level of racing.
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« Reply #65 on: February 07, 2010, 01:20:03 AM »



   
   
Re: I just want to say.....
Reply #28 on: Today at 01:03:25 AM
   
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Quote from: straight shot on February 05, 2010, 10:45:38 PM
If you owned a turf horse would you run it on dirt?

If I had a turf horse who had one start on the dirt and won, I would surely run him again on the dirt, wouldn't you?

it was a COMPARISON...we had been talking about curlin's BC on the pro ride.......he had never been on it...they tried and it falied...RA has never been on PRO RIDE....they opted not to make the same mistake twice......

Go to post #20 so you can follow the conversation. Rachel ran on a synthetic service which is why I answered like I did. Your analogy would be like me saying, yeah I won on the dirt at Churchill, but my horse was never on the dirt at Belmont.
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« Reply #66 on: February 07, 2010, 01:21:32 AM »

Go to post #20 so you can follow the conversation. Rachel ran on a synthetic service which is why I answered like I did. Your analogy would be like me saying, yeah I won on the dirt at Churchill, but my horse was never on the dirt at Belmont.

Which would be an apt analogy, since Polytrack at Keeneland and Pro-Ride at Santa Anita are two very different surfaces that play in two very different ways.

I know you vehemently disagree with that, mostly because it suits your needs in certain arguments, but it doesn't change the fact that it's completely true.
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« Reply #67 on: February 07, 2010, 01:31:19 AM »

Which would be an apt analogy, since Polytrack at Keeneland and Pro-Ride at Santa Anita are two very different surfaces that play in two very different ways.

I know you vehemently disagree with that, mostly because it suits your needs in certain arguments, but it doesn't change the fact that it's completely true.

Brian, I can make your argument about 2 different dirt tracks and say they are very different surfaces. It still comes down to an excuse. Why would he think Rachel could not run on that surface?
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« Reply #68 on: February 07, 2010, 01:36:42 AM »

Brian, I can make your argument about 2 different dirt tracks and say they are very different surfaces. It still comes down to an excuse. Why would he think Rachel could not run on that surface?

Ok, take the old Keeneland dirt track. Souped up on big days -- speed favoring beyond anything we've seen in a LONG time. If my deep-closing star had been tearing it up at Belmont, Saratoga, Churchill Downs, etc, I sure as hell wouldn't ship him to Keeneland to run on a track that has proven patently unfair to any horse with his running style. That's not an excuse, that's running your horse on a track that gives him or her a fair chance of winning. Not an advantage...but a fair chance, period.

Saying that any track labeled "turf" or any track labeled "dirt" or any track labeled "synthetic" is the same as all others in the same category is far too simplistic and black and white for me. Why does Presious Passion absolutely suck over yielding turf courses? Turf is turf after all, right? Yielding turf courses don't lend their hand to wild frontrunning types the same way Santa Anita's Pro-Ride doesn't lend itself to horses with tactical speed for the most part -- same reason Quality Road would've gotten his head handed to him in the BC last year if he hadn't flipped out. Tracks all have their own quirks and to try to lump them all together does disservice to any discussion.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2010, 01:39:10 AM by brianwspencer » Report to moderator   Logged
mel4600
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« Reply #69 on: February 07, 2010, 02:20:52 AM »

Ok, take the old Keeneland dirt track. Souped up on big days -- speed favoring beyond anything we've seen in a LONG time. If my deep-closing star had been tearing it up at Belmont, Saratoga, Churchill Downs, etc, I sure as hell wouldn't ship him to Keeneland to run on a track that has proven patently unfair to any horse with his running style. That's not an excuse, that's running your horse on a track that gives him or her a fair chance of winning. Not an advantage...but a fair chance, period.

Saying that any track labeled "turf" or any track labeled "dirt" or any track labeled "synthetic" is the same as all others in the same category is far too simplistic and black and white for me. Why does Presious Passion absolutely suck over yielding turf courses? Turf is turf after all, right? Yielding turf courses don't lend their hand to wild frontrunning types the same way Santa Anita's Pro-Ride doesn't lend itself to horses with tactical speed for the most part -- same reason Quality Road would've gotten his head handed to him in the BC last year if he hadn't flipped out. Tracks all have their own quirks and to try to lump them all together does disservice to any discussion.

All the big 3 year olds in California have front running or stalking styles and they are looking good. In any event, its a mute point. We see things differently in race horses.
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mel4600
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« Reply #70 on: February 07, 2010, 02:33:01 AM »

Brian,

This is my personal early favorite. Baffert likes 2 of his others better, but I think this guy is the real deal. Check out the fractions in the California race, not bad for 2 year olds. Where were the closers into that pace?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qz0IysmYRgs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9RkbbHLsoE&feature=related
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« Reply #71 on: February 07, 2010, 02:41:43 AM »

 Guys go luck at Blind Luck races then Tiz Chrome and Looking at Lucky please tell me what you both see. 
 
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« Reply #72 on: February 07, 2010, 03:29:13 AM »

Guys go luck at Blind Luck races then Tiz Chrome and Looking at Lucky please tell me what you both see. 
 

I see 2 nice colts and a nice filly. One speed horse, one stalker, and one closer (the filly). This would prove my point that the Pro Ride in an even playing race surface. If you watch the BC races, they also prove it.
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