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Author Topic: Woodbine Open Window?  (Read 687 times)
freddyblu22
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« on: February 01, 2010, 08:28:06 PM »

Race 4 - The #10 Brainard/Macdonald horse is 9/2 and post time, 7/2 right when the computer graphics come on as the gate opens, but then...  there are TWO different "final" flashes...  one flash he goes from 7/2 from 5/2, and then 15 seconds later there is ANOTHER flash, where he settles at 2/1.  I've never seen the odds flash two separate times after a race starts; just doesn't look good.
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wizard78
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« Reply #1 on: February 01, 2010, 08:31:22 PM »

gotta agree with you freddy...i saw it--it happened

yes,yes we all know this is a big nance thing, but i swear i agree with nance (did i just say that ?) and freddy. open windows exist and NOTHING will convince me otherwise

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JBCSFL
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« Reply #2 on: February 01, 2010, 08:35:17 PM »

It is the simulcast money coming in......it is always delayed, but maybe not always as obvious as tonight's race in question.
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wizard78
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« Reply #3 on: February 01, 2010, 08:43:23 PM »

thats the standard answer, but I have seen 3-5 shots break around the first turn and by the time they hit the quarter the new leader has gone from 5-1 to 2-1. Seen it a thousand times. And yes Im well aware of the cancel button on the hand held bet mates at the track or wherever


I just believe something isnt kosher, but i hate discussing this topic, because most people believe that it doesnt happen. I'm just one who feels betting goes on well into the race. Seen a thousand things that just dont make sense. What can I say ?
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JBCSFL
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« Reply #4 on: February 01, 2010, 08:55:16 PM »

Wiz, That is what I had heard explained many times on the pre-race show on the WEG TV broadcast. I agree some races are mighty suspect, but I have no proof one way or the other. Jim
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wizard78
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« Reply #5 on: February 01, 2010, 08:58:28 PM »

fair enough
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Prince Ebony
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« Reply #6 on: February 01, 2010, 08:59:33 PM »

fair enough

I've seen some crazy stuff as well. It wouldn't surprise me at all..
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wizard78
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« Reply #7 on: February 01, 2010, 09:30:26 PM »

I believe one day a major scandal will be exposed about open windows in horse racing. I dont know when this will occur, but I have seen things relating to odds that defy all logic imaginable. I can write a book on the subject.

Dan Nance is absoultely correct about the open window.

And God , I ask for your forgiveness for making that last statement. I promise never, ever to say anything like that as long as I live.
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M1
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« Reply #8 on: February 01, 2010, 09:38:43 PM »

I am in agreement here as well.  I used to think it was simulcast money.  I do not anymore.  Too many remarkable occurrences.
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wizard78
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« Reply #9 on: February 01, 2010, 09:59:48 PM »

the simulcast money goes into the pari-mutuel pools when you make your wager---NOT AT POST TIME or 30 SECONDS INTO THE RACE

if you dont believe me, go make a 100 dollar bet at Dover in any race with 10 minutes to post...the horse will IMMEDIATELY become 1-9....then u can cancel your bet

when u bet, the money goes in the pool

the stuff that goes in after the race starts is being wagered well after the start of the race.....I hate this topic, but someome somewhere is getting rich. I have seen 40-1 shots on the lead more than once, and suddenly the pocket horse breaks --scatters the field and yes that leader becomes 8-1.. cannot count how many times i have seen similar stuff
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fuzzypants
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« Reply #10 on: February 01, 2010, 10:08:58 PM »

I to have seen this happen.
But much more in harness.
I do know people that stand at a machine and hit the cancel if the horse breaks getting on the gate.
Two flashes is not right.
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" when I get got , I get my Glock"
wizard78
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« Reply #11 on: February 01, 2010, 10:22:08 PM »

i do not believe it is a t-bred problem horse

at least i dont think it is 

harness racing is what they are targeting  trotter

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HarnessFanDE
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« Reply #12 on: February 01, 2010, 10:35:03 PM »

the simulcast money goes into the pari-mutuel pools when you make your wager---NOT AT POST TIME or 30 SECONDS INTO THE RACE

if you dont believe me, go make a 100 dollar bet at Dover in any race with 10 minutes to post...the horse will IMMEDIATELY become 1-9....then u can cancel your bet

when u bet, the money goes in the pool

the stuff that goes in after the race starts is being wagered well after the start of the race.....I hate this topic, but someome somewhere is getting rich. I have seen 40-1 shots on the lead more than once, and suddenly the pocket horse breaks --scatters the field and yes that leader becomes 8-1.. cannot count how many times i have seen similar stuff


I agree there have been some fishy races but you are wrong about the simulcast money at least where I play........I used to play Northfield religiously  and I bet through TwinSpires, EbetUSA and Phiily Park phonebet for my domestic wagers, I would play as soon as the windows opened at 11 (because I dont like letting the odds board influence me with either too much or not enough play on a horse) or so and many times I would bet 300 or 400 to win on a horse and when they were going to the gate the horse would still have less than that on him, so most, if not all, simulcast outlets do not send the money in when it was bet
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SHOWTIME!!!
GGNJ
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« Reply #13 on: February 01, 2010, 10:44:39 PM »

For the most part, I avoid these discussions. In part, and I mean no offense to anyone, because most people are very quick to become conspiracy theorists, or jump to conclusions, while being completely absent of facts and an understanding of how the mechanics actually work. I've served on committees that addressed this in part, so I am not completely unfamiliar with the discussion. That said, the "open window" incidents that have taken place--and they are well known and have been well documented--are few and far between. They are almost exclusively due to a technology malfunction. They are the exception not the norm. The "late" flashes and odds changes that we see are a byproduct of a variety of factors.

First, you have to have a clear understanding of how video patches and the accompanying signal work. That is a contributory factor. That technology is far from perfect. When odds changes "occur after" a race goes off, they do not get "posted" and "updated" immediately. Second, there are many aspects here that involve how wagering pools "flush", how the "flushes" take place, and the technology behind the process. Third, there certainly have been incidents where the "stop betting" signal--from the tote system providor--did not get received. This is a malfunction situation. Is that an "open window" so to speak? OK. Open window, past posting, whatever you want to call it. Depending on the specific situation, track, etc. it could also have to do with the betting hub(s). The stop betting signal, and the hub scenarios are most often applicable when there has been a malfunction.

Now, very often, much of this has to do with the integrity of the tote system and totalizator systems. This can be both malfunction and normal racing, everyday. Mike Maloney, a professional gambler from KY (who I know personally) has been very active in this area and is without question an expert of the topic. Not only is he a professional gambler, but he truly understands how the entire wagering system works.

Once you understand the various aspects at play, I am very confident that "all" the open windows we "think" we see, will, in reality, not be open at all.

I have a very interesting and detailed white paper that was prepared and distributed to the industry. Let me see if I have it and if so I will post it. It is a great read.
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ZENYATTA
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« Reply #14 on: February 01, 2010, 11:06:56 PM »

the simulcast money goes into the pari-mutuel pools when you make your wager---NOT AT POST TIME or 30 SECONDS INTO THE RACE

if you dont believe me, go make a 100 dollar bet at Dover in any race with 10 minutes to post...the horse will IMMEDIATELY become 1-9....then u can cancel your bet

when u bet, the money goes in the pool

the stuff that goes in after the race starts is being wagered well after the start of the race.....I hate this topic, but someome somewhere is getting rich. I have seen 40-1 shots on the lead more than once, and suddenly the pocket horse breaks --scatters the field and yes that leader becomes 8-1.. cannot count how many times i have seen similar stuff

Do this simple test at home.Have your home phone calls forwarded to your cell phone while you are at home.When this is done by AT&T in my house the house phone rings short one time and then there is a gap of a few seconds before my cell phone rings.You would have us believe that all bets made go directly into the mutuel pool when you make a bet despite a state like IL having some of the oldest SAM machines still in service.Is the technology available that could do that ? Maybe.Do you really think ALL the tracks have spent the money and updated that equipment do it ? If you or anyone else thinks they have God Bless You. laughing guy laughing guy laughing guy
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