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Author Topic: Eclipse Award voters have crediblity issues ...  (Read 2523 times)
ZENYATTA
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« on: January 30, 2010, 09:50:56 PM »

The time has come to replace the way Eclipse Awards are given and the people who do the voting.It is time for some system that make sense to eveyone.The most recent vote for HOY is only the latest vote to bring into questions about an East vs. West bias among other faults in the system.
Some of the people who voted this year were probably part of the same group who did the voting in 1996.They awarded an Eclipse Award to a horse that never even raced in the U.S. that year.Even the Canadians voters did not give this horse an award in 1996.Diplomatic Jet won multiple G1T races in the U.S. yet was beat out for the award.

SOME ECLIPSE AWARD VOTERS HAVE ZERO CREDIBLITY DRAWING THE WHOLE PROCESS INTO QUESTION.
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Alpha Mare
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« Reply #1 on: January 31, 2010, 12:11:25 AM »

Let me ask you a question.....if Zenyatta would have been voted HOTY, would have posted this?
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« Reply #2 on: January 31, 2010, 12:30:46 AM »


Some of the people who voted this year were probably part of the same group who did the voting in 1996.They awarded an Eclipse Award to a horse that never even raced in the U.S. that year.

If you mean Singspiel, he ran second in the BC turf to Swain, so he did race in the US, but i agree, he NEVER should have gotten an eclipse award off of one race, but then again, the euro shippers getting our eclipse awards off one race have always been an issue with me....
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Horse Voice
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« Reply #3 on: January 31, 2010, 01:28:25 AM »

SOME ECLIPSE AWARD VOTERS HAVE ZERO CREDIBLITY DRAWING THE WHOLE PROCESS INTO QUESTION.

Which Eclipse voters, and what issues do they have that would lead you to make such a broad (not to mention slanderous) statement?

Please, name names, and list actual specific credibility issues these voters have.

Then list YOUR actual name, and your industry credentials that will demonstrate to all of us why we should find your statement above to be...credible.

(I won't wait up.)

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Exbourne
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« Reply #4 on: January 31, 2010, 01:45:55 AM »

I think we should do telephone voting...$1.99 per call local charges and taxes may apply.
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ZENYATTA
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« Reply #5 on: January 31, 2010, 10:33:41 AM »

If you mean Singspiel, he ran second in the BC turf to Swain, so he did race in the US, but i agree, he NEVER should have gotten an eclipse award off of one race, but then again, the euro shippers getting our eclipse awards off one race have always been an issue with me....

Please double check your facts.The BC was raced at Woodbine in 1996.Pilsudski won the race,Singspiel was 2nd and Swain 3rd.Singspiel raced one time before the BC in Canada and his next race was in Japan after the BC.How do you vote a horse an Eclipse who never raced in the U.S,. over Diplomatic Jet who won 3 GI'S on the turf that year ?

As far as Z I have already posted in another thread my feelings on this years Eclipse voting.I don;t agree but can see how they came up with it.
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« Reply #6 on: January 31, 2010, 10:41:57 AM »

Get over it already!
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ZENYATTA
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« Reply #7 on: January 31, 2010, 10:50:29 AM »

Which Eclipse voters, and what issues do they have that would lead you to make such a broad (not to mention slanderous) statement?

Please, name names, and list actual specific credibility issues these voters have.

Then list YOUR actual name, and your industry credentials that will demonstrate to all of us why we should find your statement above to be...credible.

(I won't wait up.)



The Eclipse Awards are for horses who have raced in the United States.How was an Eclipse given to Singspiel for Champion Male Turf Horsse in 1996 ? He NEVER raced in the U.S. that year and did not win the BC race which was held at Woodbine.Diplomatic Jet won 3 GI Turf races in the U.S that year and received no award.

I also don't buy the clown's story that he made a mistake when voting this year for Older Female horse.People called him out and then he said he made a mistake.I am among the many who don;t believe his story.

I have been a fan for about 35 yrs,if you think my comments about Singspiel and Diplomatic Jet are wrong check them out and tell me I am wrong.
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« Reply #8 on: January 31, 2010, 11:10:26 AM »

Let me ask you a question.....if Zenyatta would have been voted HOTY, would have posted this?

 Z- you didn't answer the question.....Smiley
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Horse Voice
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« Reply #9 on: January 31, 2010, 11:18:03 AM »

The Eclipse Awards are for horses who have raced in the United States.How was an Eclipse given to Singspiel for Champion Male Turf Horsse in 1996 ? He NEVER raced in the U.S. that year and did not win the BC race which was held at Woodbine.Diplomatic Jet won 3 GI Turf races in the U.S that year and received no award.

I also don't buy the clown's story that he made a mistake when voting this year for Older Female horse.People called him out and then he said he made a mistake.I am among the many who don;t believe his story.

I have been a fan for about 35 yrs,if you think my comments about Singspiel and Diplomatic Jet are wrong check them out and tell me I am wrong.

Wait a minute. You originally wrote:

SOME ECLIPSE AWARD VOTERS HAVE ZERO CREDIBLITY DRAWING THE WHOLE PROCESS INTO QUESTION.

...and I asked you for information that would support that statement.

Coming back with nitpicking over prior decisions is simply offering a difference of opinion -- yours vs. theirs -- not evidence of credibility issues amongst some of the Eclipse award voters.

So I'll ask again: do you have any SPECIFIC information that would support your statement? Anything about voters being bribed to vote a certain way, or some sort of CREDIBLE evidence that a group of writers willingly colluded and agreed to vote a certain way? (Those sort of things would be indicative of credibility issues, not just "I don't like who they picked".)

Please name names, and specific charges, in order to maintain your own credibility here...unless you can't; then, perhaps you might want to retract that whopper.
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Alpha Mare
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« Reply #10 on: January 31, 2010, 11:19:53 AM »

Please double check your facts.The BC was raced at Woodbine in 1996.Pilsudski won the race,Singspiel was 2nd and Swain 3rd.Singspiel raced one time before the BC in Canada and his next race was in Japan after the BC.How do you vote a horse an Eclipse who never raced in the U.S,. over Diplomatic Jet who won 3 GI'S on the turf that year ?

As far as Z I have already posted in another thread my feelings on this years Eclipse voting.I don;t agree but can see how they came up with it.


sorry, my bad, it was late when i posted and i DO agree that he never should have won the eclipse award.....but they got it by by saying it was called the NORTH AMERICAN  eclipse awards i guess......
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« Reply #11 on: January 31, 2010, 11:23:40 AM »

Let me ask you a question.....if Zenyatta would have been voted HOTY, would have posted this?

LOL.

Legitimately, I think there are several aspects of the Eclipse Awards that can be discussed. Without question there is a "political" aspect and we saw that this year. However, I think that in terms of an East Coast bias, I think that's been overplayed. If I saw commentary on the number of graded stakes in NY and FL, KY, etc. as opposed to CA, then you can have a discussion. Unfortunately, even with the state of NY racing, the old adage still goes---as goes NY racing, goes the industry.

That will change, long-term, but East Coast racing, for the most part will still have the concentration and will lead. There are numerous reasons---geographic, weather, etc.
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ZENYATTA
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« Reply #12 on: January 31, 2010, 12:34:39 PM »

Wait a minute. You originally wrote:

...and I asked you for information that would support that statement.

Coming back with nitpicking over prior decisions is simply offering a difference of opinion -- yours vs. theirs -- not evidence of credibility issues amongst some of the Eclipse award voters.

So I'll ask again: do you have any SPECIFIC information that would support your statement? Anything about voters being bribed to vote a certain way, or some sort of CREDIBLE evidence that a group of writers willingly colluded and agreed to vote a certain way? (Those sort of things would be indicative of credibility issues, not just "I don't like who they picked".)

In the Journalist's Code of Ethics there is a section called " Seek the Truth and Report It ".
In this section it states they should test the accuracy of  information from all sources and exercise care to avoid  inadvertant error.Deliberate distortion is never admissable.How could they have voted an Eclipse Award to a horse who never raced in the U.S.over a horse who won 3 G1'S in the same year ?
How can a horse be named U.S. Male Turf Champion who never even raced over U.S. turf ?


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Horse Voice
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« Reply #13 on: January 31, 2010, 05:11:51 PM »

The Journalist's Code of Ethics does not apply to extracurricular activity such as Eclipse award voting, but even if it did: you can't possibly meet the standard for a claim of "deliberate distortion" on the voting process unless you have PROOF of it.

I suggest you leave the lawyering to the lawyers. You aren't very good at interpretation and application of codified statutes.
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CLOCKERTERRY
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« Reply #14 on: January 31, 2010, 07:21:47 PM »

sorry, my bad, it was late when i posted and i DO agree that he never should have won the eclipse award.....but they got it by by saying it was called the NORTH AMERICAN  eclipse awards i guess......

I believe the one and only criteria for any of the horse Eclipses is "at least one North American start". That's what I read on another forum from a voter.

Perhaps if anyone with an actual vote stops by this thread they could confirm or deny.
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CLOCKERTERRY
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« Reply #15 on: January 31, 2010, 07:23:10 PM »

LOL.

Legitimately, I think there are several aspects of the Eclipse Awards that can be discussed. Without question there is a "political" aspect and we saw that this year. However, I think that in terms of an East Coast bias, I think that's been overplayed. If I saw commentary on the number of graded stakes in NY and FL, KY, etc. as opposed to CA, then you can have a discussion. Unfortunately, even with the state of NY racing, the old adage still goes---as goes NY racing, goes the industry.

That will change, long-term, but East Coast racing, for the most part will still have the concentration and will lead. There are numerous reasons---geographic, weather, etc.

Not to mention, far more racetracks, and thus, people involved in racing who will get a vote.
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ZENYATTA
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« Reply #16 on: January 31, 2010, 09:50:41 PM »

I believe the one and only criteria for any of the horse Eclipses is "at least one North American start". That's what I read on another forum from a voter.

Perhaps if anyone with an actual vote stops by this thread they could confirm or deny.

Singspiel's resume says 1996 U.S. Male Turf Champion.I also would  like to know what criteria was used to determine how he was voted a U.S. Champion.
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Alpha Mare
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« Reply #17 on: February 01, 2010, 12:36:08 AM »

and you are still evading answering my question.......Smiley 
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ZENYATTA
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« Reply #18 on: February 01, 2010, 10:08:06 AM »

and you are still evading answering my question.......Smiley 

I cannot say with certainty what I would have done since I discovered this info after the fact.I posted elsewhere that I can see how they voted RA the award but I do not agree with it.Singspiel is another story completely.Never won a race in the U.S. or won a BC race anywhere.
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Alpha Mare
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« Reply #19 on: February 01, 2010, 10:24:01 AM »

I cannot say with certainty what I would have done since I discovered this info after the fact.I posted elsewhere that I can see how they voted RA the award but I do not agree with it.Singspiel is another story completely.Never won a race in the U.S. or won a BC race anywhere.

and i agree with you 110%!!!! but i do think it's because like another poster wrote, to be eligible for a north american eclipse award you need to make 'X amt of STARTS' in north america and canada is part of n. america.... and he won i think two big stakes there before the bc turf?(i am not up on singspiel's race history, sorry..lol) .....and yes, diplomatic jet got TOTALLY ripped off.....
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« Reply #20 on: February 01, 2010, 10:33:50 AM »

http://sidfernando.wordpress.com/2010/01/31/sarah-reveals-duke-dosik-drf-conspiracy-on-larrys-show/
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ZENYATTA
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« Reply #21 on: February 01, 2010, 10:41:26 AM »

and i agree with you 110%!!!! but i do think it's because like another poster wrote, to be eligible for a north american eclipse award you need to make 'X amt of STARTS' in north america and canada is part of n. america.... and he won i think two big stakes there before the bc turf?(i am not up on singspiel's race history, sorry..lol) .....and yes, diplomatic jet got TOTALLY ripped off.....

Singspiel won 1 race before the BC and then finished 2nd in the BC.If the criteria is one N.A start for a U.S. award then the award loses even more credibilty.Dance Smartly was undefeated in 1991 becoming the only filly in history to win Canada's Triple Crown.She won 6 G1'S incluidng a BC race vs only 2 for G1'S for Black Tie Affair.

The logic I kept reading this year was RA had the better season and I get that.Now I would like an answer to how Singpiel was awarded an Eclipse.
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Alpha Mare
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« Reply #22 on: February 01, 2010, 01:22:02 PM »



The logic I kept reading this year was RA had the better season and I get that.Now I would like an answer to how Singpiel was awarded an Eclipse.


does anyone REALLY care?Huh  it was 14 yrs ago.......
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CLOCKERTERRY
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« Reply #23 on: February 01, 2010, 05:52:31 PM »

does anyone REALLY care?Huh  it was 14 yrs ago.......

No, not really. And neither do the Eclipse voters have to answer to anyone at all about how or why they voted.
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ZENYATTA
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« Reply #24 on: February 01, 2010, 05:57:46 PM »

No, not really. And neither do the Eclipse voters have to answer to anyone at all about how or why they voted.

Thank You for letting all of us know how the people who were snubbed in 1996 still feel or felt.I forgot you had that ability.
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