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Author Topic: Fridays figures  (Read 3953 times)
BeauNarro
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« on: March 03, 2006, 06:32:21 PM »

Well it's still not getting there. Here are the numbers for Friday (today)

Live:       $138,942.00
Offtrack: $1,846,555.00
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CLOCKERTERRY
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« Reply #1 on: March 03, 2006, 08:08:01 PM »

Well it's still not getting there. Here are the numbers for Friday (today)

Live:       $138,942.00
Offtrack: $1,846,555.00

Last year:

Live: $171,073  -$32,131
Offtrack: $1,801,162 +$45,393

I still say it's probably one or two guys who have abandoned betting on-track and gone elsewhere but still bet on Hawthorne. I bet Hawthorne knows exactly who it was. I bet there's readers/posters here who could tell us who it was, if they were so inclined.

The real question is, how much were those missing guys also pumping through the windows on other track simulcasts but not now. That's the real problem with making judgements based on the Equibase chart numbers - you don't know what's happening with the full-card simulcast numbers, and that's 85% of business in Illinois.
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robertv
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« Reply #2 on: March 03, 2006, 09:43:28 PM »

Terry -

No need to be an apologist for Hawthorne........are you compensated for such unmitigated support??

I look forward to going out there Sunday to see some live racing - I know I'll have a good time,
win or lose - Hawthorne "is what it is" - and that's just fine with me. Smiley
« Last Edit: March 03, 2006, 09:48:45 PM by robertv » Report to moderator   Logged
CLOCKERTERRY
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« Reply #3 on: March 03, 2006, 10:37:45 PM »

No need to be an apologist for Hawthorne

Posting real figures, instead of unsubstantiated and ill-informed baloney like most people post here, is being an "apologist"?

Never did like that word. It only means "defend" in the dictionary defininition, but sounds so sorry, like the person so accused was guilty of making apologies for something universally known to be wrong, but that isn't what it means at all. Are you and John Frank and APCD Dan "apologists" for Trackside and Arlington, if I say anything bad about them and you make a counter argument, robertv? Like if I say, "Trackside sucks", and you say, "No it doesn't" - that makes you an apologist, I guess.
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big wally
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« Reply #4 on: March 03, 2006, 11:10:38 PM »

Great, this years numbers and last years numbers are comparable. This means one thing last year sucked too. Since the late 90's the early part of March has had small fields and the racing sucked then and sucks now. Have fun see you in April.
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CLOCKERTERRY
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« Reply #5 on: March 03, 2006, 11:38:49 PM »

Great, this years numbers and last years numbers are comparable. This means one thing last year sucked too. Since the late 90's the early part of March has had small fields and the racing sucked then and sucks now. Have fun see you in April.

There you go, last year sucked, too. It did, it was down from the previous year. A man who knows numbers only mean something in the context of what has come before.

Fields have been small for Spring Sportsman's as long as I can remember. These days they are small for summer Arlington, too. Only time we get decent fields in Chicago is Fall Hawthorne.

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Jim C
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« Reply #6 on: March 04, 2006, 01:28:05 AM »

Maybe I have been in a different state for the last 10 years or so but I do not understand why anyone would be surprised that the numbers at Sportsthorne are the same or a bit less than last year. This has been going on for years now. Here is an idea, so go and have fun and bet! What the numbers are doesn't mean a thing right now except to show a consitant trend for all of Illinois racing for the last few years. What has changed for anyone to think the numbers would be up? Its March in Chicago and racing has always been sub-par this time of year. If you want it to be better tell those "leaders" on the ITHA Board to start racing in April, the purses would be higher and the races would fill better. Until that happens get use to this trend as it will continue.

And Terry you are right pointing out facts and figures doesn't make you an apologist for anyone. The numbers are what they are.
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nwaryas
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« Reply #7 on: March 04, 2006, 01:30:46 AM »

Hawthorne is DEAD on a Friday ever since they stopped that beer promotion. I was there today. I saw Tom Carey Sr. He looks good and still has his memory.
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John Frank
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« Reply #8 on: March 04, 2006, 01:35:56 AM »

Who Gives a SHIT. You live with what you got. And if you don't like you play simulcast elsewhere. That's what the whole idea was about. Oppurtunity to make selections at a variety of tracks. Spend your dollar where you please. BUT DON'T SIT ON YOUR LAZY ASS AND PLAY AT HOME AT OFFSHORE SITES.
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BeauNarro
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« Reply #9 on: March 04, 2006, 01:39:18 AM »

Hawthorne is DEAD on a Friday ever since they stopped that beer promotion. I was there today. I saw Tom Carey Sr. He looks good and still has his memory.

Maybe now that Chef Bob Andreas quit today-who was in charge of decision making for the concessions and bars also, maybe they'll bring back the $1.00 Fan Friendly Fridays' with the Jumbo hot dogs, 20oz beers, popcorn, and programs. It certainly drew alot of hearty drunks who bet alot..LOL!
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CLOCKERTERRY
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« Reply #10 on: March 04, 2006, 02:00:18 AM »

Maybe now that Chef Bob Andreas quit today-who was in charge of decision making for the concessions and bars also, maybe they'll bring back the $1.00 Fan Friendly Fridays' with the Jumbo hot dogs, 20oz beers, popcorn, and programs. It certainly drew alot of hearty drunks who bet alot..LOL!

Why did he quit? Were the suits putting pressure on him to cut costs, like using cheaper materials? I don't know if there really is a lower grade of hot dog than those little ones that turn up some days. 
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big wally
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« Reply #11 on: March 04, 2006, 08:05:31 AM »

Who Gives a SHIT. You live with what you got. And if you don't like you play simulcast elsewhere. That's what the whole idea was about. Oppurtunity to make selections at a variety of tracks. Spend your dollar where you please. BUT DON'T SIT ON YOUR LAZY ASS AND PLAY AT HOME AT OFFSHORE SITES.

Your Right.But,Why shouldn't bettors bet offshore. The tracks had a monopoly on our gambling dollar till the early 80"s and took their bettors for granted. There were very few if any promotions for the the fans they basically had a license to print money. If someone wants to to get a better bang for their buck, I say let em.

Purses are now 17%  (nationwide) subsidized by non-track revenue, in five to ten years in may approach 50% if track owners get their way. Why work? Since our grand daddy's had a license to run a race track in the early 20th century gives us the right to go to Springfield and ask for Handouts when our business goes bad. What a life......
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Jim C
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« Reply #12 on: March 05, 2006, 02:15:13 PM »

The reason no one should bet offshore is very simple. YOU ARE CONTRIBUTING TO THE DEATH OF THE GAME YOU SAY YOU LOVE AND ENJOY. You mention that the track owners are greedy. Aren't you also being greedy if you bet off shore for more money then what you would get betting on track and having that money flow through the right channels that would support the game? Those offshore sites have no overhead at all and therefore no track would ever be able to compete with them.

 I do get tired of hearing about how the horsemen and track owners are so greedy. Both the track owners and the horsemen have overhead and costs that we all have to cover. The fan does not. The fan is supporting the game by betting on horses we owners supply at a venue that track owners provide. Now if wanting to make a profit is being greedy then yes, I am damn greedy as are the tracks. But it seems to me those who are complaining about what the tracks do are the ones looking for hand outs. Free admission, free parking, cheap food and drinks, free programs and full fields of horses that owners have to buy, train and race while competing against offshore sites with no overhead or other tracks that have slots or other revenue inflows ( your so called subsidies, hand outs or free money) that we do not.

You would rather we race less days thus allowing owners and trainers less opportunities to earn money and less days for the tracks to do so as well. While I have said that we do need to race less days, I mean cutting out at most 3-4 weeks (15-20 days) having a meet like Saratoga at AP would not help as that would be far too short to support the horsemen here. Remember when you compare racing here to NY you really need to add PA,NJ,MD,DE,VA and WVA as all those states together provide an opportunity for year around racing within a relatively short distance. Not so here.

But back to the main point, go ahead and keep betting those offshore sites, but realize you are helping kill off the sport of racing and doing so for your own profit.
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David
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« Reply #13 on: March 05, 2006, 02:38:03 PM »

Jim C, you have no problem with track owners or horse owners being called "greedy" if that means that they want to make money on thier investment. I would agree totally with that - never begrudge anybody a return on thier investment or time.

What I won't agree with you is that you think it is so wrong for the bettor/fan to be "greedy", if you bet seriously you are investing a great deal of capital, and you are also investing a great deal, if not all of, your time to the venture. Not to seek out and employ the best return for your investment would be assinine. I realize you don't understand that - you probably never will - you just don't understand what it is to gamble seriously - not that I mean that as a cutdown  - you are in the game on a different angle and don't understand the gamblers needs. I said it before and I'll say it again without the gamblers you and your rich friends will be running your horses for bragging rights at Mr. D's farm or in Aiken, take your pick.

This isn't going to get better, by the way, Racing needs to revise it's cost structure to the gambler or it will have to live off of slot "welfare" or go away. Betting exchanges are bound to take a tighter grip in this country - it will make the rebate flight look like a drop of water in the ocean.
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Ed
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« Reply #14 on: March 05, 2006, 02:56:04 PM »

Free admission, free parking, cheap food and drinks, free programs

Sounds like the river boats or LV casinos. Not to mention other comps. Rooms, limos, etc. Our unsubsidized compettition. If our local track owners don't want to compete, they should sell the business to someone who wants to instead of going begging in Springfield. If our owners/horsemen can't make a living they should get out of the business just like other unsuccessful ventures. No one owes them a living.

Ed
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edwarren
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« Reply #15 on: March 05, 2006, 04:01:00 PM »

Here's my take on the onshore-offshore thing. It's gotten very bad, so bad they don't care WHERE you gamble, as long as you keep gambling.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2006, 04:45:02 PM by edwarren » Report to moderator   Logged
big wally
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« Reply #16 on: March 05, 2006, 04:10:25 PM »

JIM C, if you took away the rebates shops the big bettors will leave the game. It will die on its own anyway. Racing has had problems before the rebate shops. People who bet offshore are NOT killing the game, the game is dead because the public could care less. Yeah you have the people who show up for the triple crown and a half dozen other days. So what?
« Last Edit: March 05, 2006, 04:59:49 PM by big wally » Report to moderator   Logged
BeauNarro
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« Reply #17 on: March 05, 2006, 05:18:10 PM »

Who here bets on offshore? I never have. I have bet on Hawthorne or Arlington on Youbet if I can't make it to the track, but that's not an offshore account as far as I know. The tracks still get a piece of that the same as if I went to a parlor.

Until the merger in Stickney, Hawthorne did quite well. I don't know why they now can't pay their bills(well I do but no one wants to be beat to death on it here). Granted the tracks lost alot of PROFIT with the advent of riverboats and lottery, but they were still able to pay out good dividends to family members every year for many many years. However, that is their right in doing business. It's up to horsemen's organizations like the ITHA, IHHA, ITBOF to help protect the interests of the racehorse owners, trainers and breeders to keep a balance between them and the track owners.
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big wally
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« Reply #18 on: March 05, 2006, 05:24:28 PM »

Someone here may know more and they probably do. Most rebate shops money finds its way in the pool one way or another. I think but do not know if you bet on You BET or Off Shore the track still gets 3%.
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BeauNarro
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« Reply #19 on: March 05, 2006, 06:06:44 PM »

I recently heard that almost all of the major outlets like New York, California and Florida only pay 2% through negotiation to Hawthorne and the rest are 3 to 3.5%. If that's true - hell - that's not very much.
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David
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« Reply #20 on: March 05, 2006, 06:21:08 PM »

Who here bets on offshore? I never have. I have bet on Hawthorne or Arlington on Youbet if I can't make it to the track, but that's not an offshore account as far as I know. The tracks still get a piece of that the same as if I went to a parlor.

Until the merger in Stickney, Hawthorne did quite well. I don't know why they now can't pay their bills(well I do but no one wants to be beat to death on it here). Granted the tracks lost alot of PROFIT with the advent of riverboats and lottery, but they were still able to pay out good dividends to family members every year for many many years. However, that is their right in doing business. It's up to horsemen's organizations like the ITHA, IHHA, ITBOF to help protect the interests of the racehorse owners, trainers and breeders to keep a balance between them and the track owners.

Beau, it is illegal to bet on youbet.com in Illinois according to the Illinois Attorney General opinion - anyways., I saw you reccomend it before and as an owner i would think you wouldn't want to do that or at least admit it in an open forum. Certainly not while at the same time you make a point to mention declining on track handle every day.

As far as revenue it is probably the same as if you went to Merrilville and made a bet, that is bet at an out of state OTB.
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BeauNarro
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« Reply #21 on: March 05, 2006, 06:27:12 PM »

David,
It's not the first law I've ever broken. I'm sure you never have though.

But I have a question for you. How much do you bet per day on average and/or your yearly average?
Also, do you bet on track?
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David
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« Reply #22 on: March 05, 2006, 06:37:41 PM »

I split 2 dollar bets with my group of friends, always on track as to suport local purses. I always cross with the light, never inhale, drive 55 and overpay my taxes.
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big wally
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« Reply #23 on: March 05, 2006, 06:44:26 PM »

Beau, it is illegal to bet on youbet.com in Illinois according to the Illinois Attorney General opinion - anyways., I saw you reccomend it before and as an owner i would think you wouldn't want to do that or at least admit it in an open forum. Certainly not while at the same time you make a point to mention declining on track handle every day.

As far as revenue it is probably the same as if you went to Merrilville and made a bet, that is bet at an out of state OTB.

I believe it is illegal to bet on Illinois Races  if you live in Illinois. If you bet tracks in other states and live in Illinois the law is open to interpretation.
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BeauNarro
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« Reply #24 on: March 05, 2006, 06:49:55 PM »

I split 2 dollar bets with my group of friends, always on track as to suport local purses. I always cross with the light, never inhale, drive 55 and overpay my taxes.

LMAO - well then you really are a saint!
It's good to see you bet almost $500 bucks a year. Good for you!
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