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Author Topic: Zenyatta Classic win voted NTRA moment of the year !  (Read 2411 times)
ZENYATTA
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« on: January 14, 2010, 02:39:02 PM »

Voters found Zenyatta's Classic win nearly 7 times more impressive than RA'S Woodward win and more impressive than any other of RA'S wins.This comes after THE WORLD TB RANKINGS ranked Zenytta also ahead of RA.

The only thing left is the celebration after winning HOY next Monday night.


http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/54812/zenyatta-wins-ntra-moment-of-the-year
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orioles
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« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2010, 03:00:12 PM »

 laughing guy Moment of the year yes. But RA still gets my HOY vote based on the whole years accomplishments. Monday I will toast Rachel Alexandra with a Brandy Alexander ( Cheers )
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AreWeHavingFunYet?
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« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2010, 05:35:08 PM »

laughing guy Moment of the year yes. But RA still gets my HOY vote based on the whole years accomplishments. Monday I will toast Rachel Alexandra with a Brandy Alexander ( Cheers )

 i agree.....RA gets my vote as well.....she just did MORE....at many different tracks in all kinds of condiions.......but you know how much pull the BC has......i still say...if Zenyatta doesn't get out and get her usual outside path....the classic is won by a grass horse again.......
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ZENYATTA
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« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2010, 05:46:03 PM »

i agree.....RA gets my vote as well.....she just did MORE....at many different tracks in all kinds of condiions.......but you know how much pull the BC has......i still say...if Zenyatta doesn't get out and get her usual outside path....the classic is won by a grass horse again.......

Sometimes it takes some people a little bit longer to see perfection in the right light.RA'S campaign was a good one against virtually the worst crop of 3yos in the last decade.Winning the Grey Cup does not quite equate to winning The Super Bowl.Zenyatta to remain undefeated lifetime over the course of 2 years is among the greatest careers ever.
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ChitownSteve75
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« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2010, 06:53:00 PM »

Zenyatta is truly a great Champion. Undefeated with 14 wins and 2 of those in 2 different Breeders Cup Races. RA has Zero. I hope RA wins because if she does the rumor has Zenyatta coming back for her 6YO season. If these 2 ever hooked up, I'd really hammer the Zen Master at the window! I may even get even money too!
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Moni for free
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« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2010, 07:24:32 PM »

see the thing is.. bringing Zenyatta back at age 6, what do you lose? one foal? BFD... I want to see these 2 duke it out on the track... in the Apple Blossom, I truly believe Zenyatta would be up against it vs. Rachel.. 1 1/16th in a 4 or 5 horse field... go to a race like the Personal Ensign and we have a much more fair fight..... You can bet Zenyatta at even sticks whenever and wherever you want when these 2 meet, I'll politely watch and enjoy....
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Earl Sande
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« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2010, 07:29:01 PM »

I preferred the Preakness to the plastic.
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brianwspencer
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« Reply #7 on: January 14, 2010, 08:45:55 PM »

Voters found Zenyatta's Classic win nearly 7 times more impressive than RA'S Woodward win and more impressive than any other of RA'S wins.This comes after THE WORLD TB RANKINGS ranked Zenytta also ahead of RA.

The only thing left is the celebration after winning HOY next Monday night.


http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/54812/zenyatta-wins-ntra-moment-of-the-year

Of course it was the moment of the year...since virtually everyone agrees on that. Even Rachel backers...pretty much every single one I've read has conceded the most impressive performance of the year to Z. So people who deep down know that Rachel's campaign was better this year would still have voted for this moment as the "moment of the year," myself included as I've given that point numerous times.

However, your "7 times more impressive than RA'S Woodward win and more impressive than any other of RA'S wins" comment is wildly disingenuous (which I'm sure you knew already, since intellectual honesty has not proven your strongest point).

More popular does not equate in a linear way with more impressive. While Z's Classic was certainly the most impressive, voting on moment of the year has no real correlation with any multiplier of how impressive a race was.

So while the post is chock full of intellectual dishonesty, I am a bit pleased, since it created the perfect time for me to bust out my Rachel vs. Zenyatta trump card that I've been saving for this very moment -- the moment when all logic had been suspended and we could just make claims based on whatever we want without thinking them through.

Rachel's combined Beyer figures for the year were 341 points better then Zenyatta's. It is clear -- painfully obvious -- that this means that Rachel had a campaign that was 341 times more impressive than Zenyatta's this year, that she is 341 times faster and more talented, and that she will have 341 more Grade I-winning foals as a broodmare than Zenyatta will!!!!!!!!

That should seal the deal, with logic you can understand. Glad to have you on my side now, ZENYATTA.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2010, 08:49:01 PM by brianwspencer » Report to moderator   Logged
ZENYATTA
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« Reply #8 on: January 14, 2010, 10:24:36 PM »

Of course it was the moment of the year...since virtually everyone agrees on that. Even Rachel backers...pretty much every single one I've read has conceded the most impressive performance of the year to Z. So people who deep down know that Rachel's campaign was better this year would still have voted for this moment as the "moment of the year," myself included as I've given that point numerous times.

However, your "7 times more impressive than RA'S Woodward win and more impressive than any other of RA'S wins" comment is wildly disingenuous (which I'm sure you knew already, since intellectual honesty has not proven your strongest point).

More popular does not equate in a linear way with more impressive. While Z's Classic was certainly the most impressive, voting on moment of the year has no real correlation with any multiplier of how impressive a race was.

So while the post is chock full of intellectual dishonesty, I am a bit pleased, since it created the perfect time for me to bust out my Rachel vs. Zenyatta trump card that I've been saving for this very moment -- the moment when all logic had been suspended and we could just make claims based on whatever we want without thinking them through.

Rachel's combined Beyer figures for the year were 341 points better then Zenyatta's. It is clear -- painfully obvious -- that this means that Rachel had a campaign that was 341 times more impressive than Zenyatta's this year, that she is 341 times faster and more talented, and that she will have 341 more Grade I-winning foals as a broodmare than Zenyatta will!!!!!!!!

That should seal the deal, with logic you can understand. Glad to have you on my side now, ZENYATTA.


Feel free to attack me anyone want with with all the wild jabs and wild punches you want.Yes, your Beyer facts are very impressive and cannot be argued.The REAL difference here is that is your feelings about the Beyers and my original post quoted was how voters voted in a certain poll.I did not vote or particpate in the poll in anyway and have not stated what I thought was  MY MOMENT HORSE RACING MOMENT of the year.

Apparently you have math skills so you either did not read or cannot read the article,so it is you who is showing a lack of INTELLECTUAL HONESTY here.
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servicetech
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« Reply #9 on: January 14, 2010, 10:40:25 PM »

it was a classic....too bad Trevor denman acted stupid and surprised by repeating zenyatta is dead last a couple of times,,gee isn,t that her race pattern,dead last first 14 races,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,hey where,s horse voice, thought for sure he would be all over this subject about giving zenyatta a award....guess he lost usage of his company computer since Hawthorne is down until next month,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, screw u
« Last Edit: January 14, 2010, 10:42:22 PM by servicetech » Report to moderator   Logged
brianwspencer
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« Reply #10 on: January 14, 2010, 10:54:17 PM »

Feel free to attack me anyone want with with all the wild jabs and wild punches you want.Yes, your Beyer facts are very impressive and cannot be argued.The REAL difference here is that is your feelings about the Beyers and my original post quoted was how voters voted in a certain poll.I did not vote or particpate in the poll in anyway and have not stated what I thought was  MY MOMENT HORSE RACING MOMENT of the year.

Apparently you have math skills so you either did not read or cannot read the article,so it is you who is showing a lack of INTELLECTUAL HONESTY here.


Eh, not so much. You don't really get what intellectual honesty is, clearly.

However, you claimed that the article and the poll indicated that:

Voters found Zenyatta's Classic win nearly 7 times more impressive than RA'S Woodward win

Which is distinctly, unequivocally, irrefutably, not at all what the article said in any way. That was your editorializing about the moment of the year voting, and that is what I commented on. The voting for moment of the year says nothing about any performance being "7 times more impressive" than another, that was you poor analysis of what voting means, which it, in fact does not. It means that x times the number of people thought that Zenyatta's race was the moment of the year, not anything at all to do with some attempted linear comparison you made about that indicating that said race was "7 times more impressive" than any of Rachel's.

You read the outcome of the poll correctly. You analyzed what that meant terribly. That's not a wild jab. Being intellectually honest is pretty easy -- you approach something in good faith and don't twist things to mean something they don't, is the basic premise of it. You have yet to prove capable of performing that basic debate duty without resorting to logical fallacies. That's not a wild jab, or even an attack -- that's a pretty basic, elementary job of calling you out on the way you twist words and numbers to try to make them prove a point you want them to...even when they don't.

I iz gud reeder and analysist!!!!
« Last Edit: January 14, 2010, 10:56:24 PM by brianwspencer » Report to moderator   Logged
mel4600
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« Reply #11 on: January 15, 2010, 12:00:01 AM »

...if Zenyatta doesn't get out and get her usual outside path....the classic is won by a grass horse again.......

...If Rachel ran in the Classic...she gets buried!
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brianwspencer
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« Reply #12 on: January 15, 2010, 12:09:55 AM »

...If Rachel ran in the Classic...she gets buried!

 beer

No doubt.
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orioles
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« Reply #13 on: January 15, 2010, 08:18:22 AM »

 laughing guy if,  ifs and buts were candy and nuts we would have a merry Christmas.
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ZENYATTA
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« Reply #14 on: January 15, 2010, 08:59:52 AM »

Eh, not so much. You don't really get what intellectual honesty is, clearly.

However, you claimed that the article and the poll indicated that:

Which is distinctly, unequivocally, irrefutably, not at all what the article said in any way. That was your editorializing about the moment of the year voting, and that is what I commented on. The voting for moment of the year says nothing about any performance being "7 times more impressive" than another, that was you poor analysis of what voting means, which it, in fact does not. It means that x times the number of people thought that Zenyatta's race was the moment of the year, not anything at all to do with some attempted linear comparison you made about that indicating that said race was "7 times more impressive" than any of Rachel's.

You read the outcome of the poll correctly. You analyzed what that meant terribly. That's not a wild jab. Being intellectually honest is pretty easy -- you approach something in good faith and don't twist things to mean something they don't, is the basic premise of it. You have yet to prove capable of performing that basic debate duty without resorting to logical fallacies. That's not a wild jab, or even an attack -- that's a pretty basic, elementary job of calling you out on the way you twist words and numbers to try to make them prove a point you want them to...even when they don't.

I iz gud reeder and analysist!!!!

You are correct I worded it the wrong way.I made an honest mistake in the way I interpeted it.

Voters voted nearly 7 times in favor of Zenyatta's BC Classic win vs RA'S highest  win in THE NTRA RACING MOMENT of the year poll.
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mel4600
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« Reply #15 on: January 15, 2010, 09:41:15 AM »

laughing guy if,  ifs and buts were candy and nuts we would have a merry Christmas.

Exactly my point! lol
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ChitownSteve75
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« Reply #16 on: January 15, 2010, 10:13:26 AM »

RA would have gotten buried, that's why the connections didn't go there. If it was on dirt, same thing. She cannot go 1 1/4 against top world class horses.
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« Reply #17 on: January 15, 2010, 11:53:39 AM »

You are correct I worded it the wrong way.I made an honest mistake in the way I interpeted it.

Voters voted nearly 7 times in favor of Zenyatta's BC Classic win vs RA'S highest  win in THE NTRA RACING MOMENT of the year poll.


That's all I'm saying. And it's completely true, since even most Rachel fans/backers agree.
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SandyLoam
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« Reply #18 on: January 15, 2010, 12:17:15 PM »

Let's remember that a lot of these arguments are more about the horses' connections than the horses themselves. The animals did what they were asked to do. Let's also remember that Zenyatta's connections' two most important goals were to keep her undefeated and win Horse of the Year. Rachel's connections RACED her. DRF provided the 2009 PPs of all the Eclipse candidates. Rachel Alexandra's lines just jump out at you. Including her opponents.
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ChitownSteve75
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« Reply #19 on: January 15, 2010, 12:34:39 PM »

Including her opponents?Huh lmao. Weakest group of horse I've ever seen!
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SandyLoam
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« Reply #20 on: January 15, 2010, 12:38:11 PM »

I meant Rachel faced better.
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Earl Sande
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« Reply #21 on: January 15, 2010, 01:01:54 PM »

I meant Rachel faced better.

You'll never convince these goofs who think four plastic wins over lousy mares and a plastic win over a bunch of grass and dirt horses is greater than all that Rachel accomplished this year including THREE wins over the boys.
If Zenyatta is so great, why doesn't she go for Peppers Pride's record and dare race against Rachel??
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SandyLoam
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« Reply #22 on: January 15, 2010, 01:07:32 PM »

Right on, Earl Sande. And let's not forget the fact Rachel was three years old. Would have loved to see how Zenyatta might have handled the Monmouth or Saratoga configurations.
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mel4600
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« Reply #23 on: January 15, 2010, 02:18:49 PM »

I meant Rachel faced better.

Name me the best 5 horses Rachel beat in your opinion.
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mel4600
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« Reply #24 on: January 15, 2010, 02:21:20 PM »

Right on, Earl Sande.

LOL...Guys like Earl buried Fairmount into the ground, and you believe him?  laughing guy
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SandyLoam
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« Reply #25 on: January 15, 2010, 03:54:50 PM »

Pick any 5:
Summer Bird, Munnings, Flashing, Macho Again, Afleet Deceit, Musket Man

This is from the Eclipse PPs, not the entire fields Rachel faced, in no particular order.

Zenyatta's best 5?
Again, from the Eclipse PPS:
Gio Ponti, Life is Sweet, Twice Over (with the Euro-on-the-California-synthetic bias, for sure), Anabaas Creation (almost beat her), Cocoa Beach
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Moni for free
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« Reply #26 on: January 15, 2010, 07:43:03 PM »

Pick any 5:
Summer Bird, Munnings, Flashing, Macho Again, Afleet Deceit, Musket Man

This is from the Eclipse PPs, not the entire fields Rachel faced, in no particular order.

Zenyatta's best 5?
Again, from the Eclipse PPS:
Gio Ponti, Life is Sweet, Twice Over (with the Euro-on-the-California-synthetic bias, for sure), Anabaas Creation (almost beat her), Cocoa Beach
you're comparing one race with an entire body of work... look, I prefer RA to win the award but will I be pissed if Zenyatta wins? no... not really.. unless of course, Zenyatta losing would bring her back for her 6yo season...
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pamwaggy
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« Reply #27 on: January 15, 2010, 08:17:19 PM »

It's all so simple.  Zenyatta will win.  So what's the problem? Wink  Settle down.  It's all over but the shouting.
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Moni for free
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« Reply #28 on: January 15, 2010, 10:41:56 PM »

a head to head race? depends on the distance.. the Vote.. depends on the bias... no disrespect but you don't know any better than I do if Zenyatta will win HOY.. I can see the case for both...
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Moni for free
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« Reply #29 on: January 15, 2010, 10:49:00 PM »

are we talking about a head to head race or the vote.. the shorter the distance the more it favors Rachel the longer it favors Zenyatta.... the vote? its all up to the bias.. it will be close either way.. and arguements can be made for both.. I favor Rachel but I won't be upset if Z wins..
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mel4600
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« Reply #30 on: January 16, 2010, 01:18:15 AM »

Pick any 5:
Summer Bird, Munnings, Flashing, Macho Again, Afleet Deceit, Musket Man

This is from the Eclipse PPs, not the entire fields Rachel faced, in no particular order.

Zenyatta's best 5?
Again, from the Eclipse PPS:
Gio Ponti, Life is Sweet, Twice Over (with the Euro-on-the-California-synthetic bias, for sure), Anabaas Creation (almost beat her), Cocoa Beach

lol...Summer bird is the highest rated horse on Rachel's list and can't even make Zenyatta's top 5, again from the Eclipse PPs. You seem to forget that Zenyatta also beat Summer Bird! I rest my case!
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« Reply #31 on: January 16, 2010, 02:51:06 AM »

Pick any 5:
Summer Bird, Munnings, Flashing, Macho Again, Afleet Deceit, Musket Man

This is from the Eclipse PPs, not the entire fields Rachel faced, in no particular order.

Zenyatta's best 5?
Again, from the Eclipse PPS:
Gio Ponti, Life is Sweet, Twice Over (with the Euro-on-the-California-synthetic bias, for sure), Anabaas Creation (almost beat her), Cocoa Beach

Afleet Deceit??? LMAO!

Um, Zenyatta also beat Music Note, Rip Van Winkle (#2 on World Rankings), Einstein, Summer Bird, and MTB. RA beat nothing accept Summer Bird and RA's 3YO races are laughable!  laughing guy
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« Reply #32 on: January 16, 2010, 12:06:44 PM »

Yeah, that Rip Van Winkle is a real monster! Music Note too, what a bear!
Zenyatta is nothing but the Queen of California plastic.
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« Reply #33 on: January 16, 2010, 12:50:17 PM »

it's not who RA faced..it's HOW she won........hmm...let's see....the ky oaks.... open lengths.......um 20...in a hand ride in great time - stakes record?? i forget......never broke a sweat.....preakness......pressured wide on the lead most of the race.....in the mud... was it the fastest time for the race ever? i forget........ZEN was scratched from her ky race cause the track was 'off'.....mother goose......wins by 19 in hand ride.....setting new stakes record....never took a deep a breath.....haskell....beats the boys again,..in very sloppy conds by open lengths a tick off record......again never breathing hard.....the woodward......beat older males..she is THREE.....pressured every step of the way on the lead and still found a way to win....was still in front in the gallop out,..she came back tired....but she had a right to be....she did things never done by a 3 yr old filly all year....she traveled all over and raced in all conds......sure zen is a great race mare and she is undefeated....but her 09 campaign was carefully laid out , all in calif on plastic, ......the same mares she defeated over the plastic were no better than the 3 yr old males RA beat.....and it has been proven over and over that dirt based runners don't do well on plastic....i say it again...if zen doesn't get outside in the bc....a grass horse wins the classic again....lucky for her she got out......and the best field ever assembled?? hahaha....euro grass winners, 3 yr old dirt horses and older poly horses.....there were no tiznows, ap indys, ghostzappers or giant's causeways in there last nov....other than zen and gio ponti, it was a pretty weak bc classic field in my opinion......grassers like the plastic...dirt horses don't ...the mtb proved that last yr on calif plastic....why they raced him on it again i have no idea .....how can anyone call that field 'one of the best ever'?? i hope she does race at 6 and goes to churchill in nov and runs in the classic again....and it's twilight and it's 40 degrees and it's raining and the track is off.....and Zen is a great mare, but in the overall picture of race YEAR...agree or disagree, RA ,in my opinion just did MORE........ and isn't it HOT YEAR, not horse of the BC classic??  (which face it...zen wins ladies race...she has no shot of hoty....)
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ZENYATTA
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« Reply #34 on: January 16, 2010, 12:52:03 PM »

Zenyatta is nothing but the Queen of California plastic.

She is also an Eclipse Award winner.Don't let real facts stand in your way.
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ZENYATTA
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« Reply #35 on: January 16, 2010, 01:03:42 PM »

it's not who RA faced..it's HOW she won........hmm...let's see....the ky oaks.... open lengths.......um 20...in a hand ride in great time - stakes record?? i forget......never broke a sweat.....preakness......pressured wide on the lead most of the race.....in the mud... was it the fastest time for the race ever? i forget........ZEN was scratched from her ky race cause the track was 'off'.....mother goose......wins by 19 in hand ride.....setting new stakes record....never took a deep a breath.....haskell....beats the boys again,..in very sloppy conds by open lengths a tick off record......again never breathing hard.....the woodward......beat older males..she is THREE.....pressured every step of the way on the lead and still found a way to win....was still in front in the gallop out,..she came back tired....but she had a right to be....she did things never done by a 3 yr old filly all year....she traveled all over and raced in all conds......sure zen is a great race mare and she is undefeated....but her 09 campaign was carefully laid out , all in calif on plastic, ......the same mares she defeated over the plastic were no better than the 3 yr old males RA beat.....and it has been proven over and over that dirt based runners don't do well on plastic....i say it again...if zen doesn't get outside in the bc....a grass horse wins the classic again....lucky for her she got out......and the best field ever assembled?? hahaha....euro grass winners, 3 yr old dirt horses and older poly horses.....there were no tiznows, ap indys, ghostzappers or giant's causeways in there last nov....other than zen and gio ponti, it was a pretty weak bc classic field in my opinion......grassers like the plastic...dirt horses don't ...the mtb proved that last yr on calif plastic....why they raced him on it again i have no idea .....how can anyone call that field 'one of the best ever'?? i hope she does race at 6 and goes to churchill in nov and runs in the classic again....and it's twilight and it's 40 degrees and it's raining and the track is off.....and Zen is a great mare, but in the overall picture of race YEAR...agree or disagree, RA ,in my opinion just did MORE........ and isn't it HOT YEAR, not horse of the BC classic??  (which face it...zen wins ladies race...she has no shot of hoty....)

If you are racing creampuffs the way RA did you should win impressively,kinda like the Globetrotters vs the Generals.
People like you and others keep bringing up if ZEN had not gotten her outside trip she would not have won the Classic.The simple fact is she has been good enough her entire career to spot her opponents x amount of lengths and run them down even spotting them wgt on occassion.This is no different than RA using her best attribute which is her speed to control the race and or to run others into the ground.Using the poly is no excuse either plenty of others in the past have used a home court advantage to win a title.ZEN has never been beaten and until she is the dirt question does not wash either as she shows a G1 win on the dirt.
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« Reply #36 on: January 16, 2010, 03:17:53 PM »

She is also an Eclipse Award winner.Don't let real facts stand in your way.

And she deserves the honor of being best older mare again, just not HOY.
Like AWHFY said, they way Rachel Alexandra destoyed her competition was a sight to behold!
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« Reply #37 on: January 16, 2010, 03:21:42 PM »

it's not who RA faced..it's HOW she won........hmm...let's see....the ky oaks.... open lengths.......um 20...in a hand ride in great time - stakes record?? i forget......never broke a sweat.....preakness......pressured wide on the lead most of the race.....in the mud... was it the fastest time for the race ever? i forget........ZEN was scratched from her ky race cause the track was 'off'.....mother goose......wins by 19 in hand ride.....setting new stakes record....never took a deep a breath.....haskell....beats the boys again,..in very sloppy conds by open lengths a tick off record......again never breathing hard.....the woodward......beat older males..she is THREE.....pressured every step of the way on the lead and still found a way to win....was still in front in the gallop out,..she came back tired....but she had a right to be....she did things never done by a 3 yr old filly all year....she traveled all over and raced in all conds......sure zen is a great race mare and she is undefeated....but her 09 campaign was carefully laid out , all in calif on plastic, ......the same mares she defeated over the plastic were no better than the 3 yr old males RA beat.....and it has been proven over and over that dirt based runners don't do well on plastic....i say it again...if zen doesn't get outside in the bc....a grass horse wins the classic again....lucky for her she got out......and the best field ever assembled?? hahaha....euro grass winners, 3 yr old dirt horses and older poly horses.....there were no tiznows, ap indys, ghostzappers or giant's causeways in there last nov....other than zen and gio ponti, it was a pretty weak bc classic field in my opinion......grassers like the plastic...dirt horses don't ...the mtb proved that last yr on calif plastic....why they raced him on it again i have no idea .....how can anyone call that field 'one of the best ever'?? i hope she does race at 6 and goes to churchill in nov and runs in the classic again....and it's twilight and it's 40 degrees and it's raining and the track is off.....and Zen is a great mare, but in the overall picture of race YEAR...agree or disagree, RA ,in my opinion just did MORE........ and isn't it HOT YEAR, not horse of the BC classic??  (which face it...zen wins ladies race...she has no shot of hoty....)

How many Breeders Cup races did RA win???   doh
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« Reply #38 on: January 16, 2010, 03:23:13 PM »

i'd have more respect for zen as hoty if she had come to the woodward or  if she had raced on an off dirt track in kentucky, or  if she had even raced in the pacific classic instead of the ladies secret at home against the same claimers  and nw of 2 other thans parading as stakes horses........bring her to belmont......she'd love the wide sweeping turns.....and i LIKE the horse....i just think that there should be  synthetic awards as well as REAL surface awards such as dirt and grass.....and again, jmo.....as you  have yours....the bc has way too much influence on eclipse and hoty honors....and it should not....i have a real issue with euro grassers coming here, winning a bc race and then being the NORTH AMERICAN ECLIPSE GRASS CHAMPION, whether male or female...sorry....and so many times our good grassers who had great years and a bad bc race, miss the award to the euro..not right...you can bet your last cent that an american horse would never win a euro yr end award based on one win in a big race.....hell, they wouldn't even be on the ballot..but that's a whole other can of worms  lol
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« Reply #39 on: January 16, 2010, 03:24:53 PM »

How many Breeders Cup races did RA win???   doh

who cares?Huh?   WAY TOO MUCH  influence put on one, oops, now two days of racing in late fall.......
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« Reply #40 on: January 16, 2010, 03:47:56 PM »

sorry, but I was informed from someone who's close to the source that Rachel won the award in a landslide.. if this is true, do we get to see Zenyatta at 6?  After all she did prove that she can handle a quality field of males.. Moss has succumbed to pressure before and stepped out of the box with his champ, will he do it again?  otherwise why keep working her.. 
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« Reply #41 on: January 16, 2010, 04:43:17 PM »

i'd have more respect for zen as hoty if she had come to the woodward or  if she had raced on an off dirt track in kentucky, or  if she had even raced in the pacific classic instead of the ladies secret at home against the same claimers  and nw of 2 other thans parading as stakes horses........bring her to belmont......she'd love the wide sweeping turns.....and i LIKE the horse....i just think that there should be  synthetic awards as well as REAL surface awards such as dirt and grass.....and again, jmo.....as you  have yours....the bc has way too much influence on eclipse and hoty honors....and it should not....i have a real issue with euro grassers coming here, winning a bc race and then being the NORTH AMERICAN ECLIPSE GRASS CHAMPION, whether male or female...sorry....and so many times our good grassers who had great years and a bad bc race, miss the award to the euro..not right...you can bet your last cent that an american horse would never win a euro yr end award based on one win in a big race.....hell, they wouldn't even be on the ballot..but that's a whole other can of worms  lol

Please name 1 or 2 of the NA good grassers you claim had great years and lost the Eclipse to a one hit Euro runner.All Along was named Co-Champion older Mare in France in 1984 despite running in only 1 race in Eurpoe and losing.She ran the other 3 races in The U.S..
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mel4600
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« Reply #42 on: January 16, 2010, 08:09:34 PM »

i'd have more respect for zen as hoty if she had come to the woodward or  if she had raced on an off dirt track in kentucky, or  if she had even raced in the pacific classic instead of the ladies secret at home against the same claimers  and nw of 2 other thans parading as stakes horses

I would have a lot more respect for Rachel if she would have showed up for racings biggest day, and run against some "real" horses. You can't win the World Series playing minor league teams.
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mel4600
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« Reply #43 on: January 16, 2010, 08:10:40 PM »

sorry, but I was informed from someone who's close to the source that Rachel won the award in a landslide..

How sure are you?
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Moni for free
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« Reply #44 on: January 16, 2010, 08:48:31 PM »

Zenyatta isn't retired right?
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mel4600
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« Reply #45 on: January 16, 2010, 09:15:29 PM »

Zenyatta isn't retired right?

So you're saying Moss knows he didn't win HOTY? If you are, you're wrong.
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« Reply #46 on: January 17, 2010, 01:12:00 AM »

i didn't  think anyone nominated knew till it's announced!
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« Reply #47 on: January 17, 2010, 01:39:38 AM »

Very interesting post I read in the DRF that I would like to share. I did not check its validity because no one contested him on the blog. Here it is;

The people have spoken:

Zenyatta leads in this second Bloodhorse poll 54% to 46%.

Zenyatta won an earlier poll by Bloodhorse by a similiar margin.

Zenyatta leads in the Albany Times-Union poll of New York 68 to 53.

Zenyatta leads in the Daily Racing Form poll by over 2300 votes!

Zenyatta leads in The Sporting News poll 53% to 47%.

The same goes for the CBSSports Poll, USA Today poll, Chicago Tribune poll and on and on.

Zenyatta leads in the Horseracinginsider poll 56% to 36%.

Zenyatta leads in the Thoroughbred Times poll from over 40 states and 29 countries 50% to 33%.

Zenyatta was voted the best female athlete by the Associated Press other than a human being by the sports editors for the nations' newspapers.

Zenyatta leads in the European poll (Jour de Galop) by 61% to 39%.

Zenyatta is the all time leader in Facebook followed by Sea The Stars, Seabiscuit, and Secretariat.

Zenyatta just beat Rachel Alexander in the NTRA "Moment of the Year" poll.

The people have spoken. The world has spoken. The betting public has spoken. People on this site has spoken.

But what will determine the "Horse of the Year" election - DRF, and the east coast biased NTRA and NTWA.

Posted by: The Public | Jan 14, 2010 at 9:14:18 AM


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« Last Edit: January 17, 2010, 02:05:22 AM by mel4600 » Report to moderator   Logged
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« Reply #48 on: January 17, 2010, 06:34:30 AM »

the Albany Times Usless poll of 68-53? something wrong with that number or has Pete Dougherty lost his flipping mind again...
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ZENYATTA
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« Reply #49 on: January 17, 2010, 10:38:38 AM »

i'd have more respect for zen as hoty if she had come to the woodward or  if she had raced on an off dirt track in kentucky, or  if she had even raced in the pacific classic instead of the ladies secret at home against the same claimers  and nw of 2 other thans parading as stakes horses........bring her to belmont......she'd love the wide sweeping turns.....and i LIKE the horse....i just think that there should be  synthetic awards as well as REAL surface awards such as dirt and grass.....and again, jmo.....as you  have yours....the bc has way too much influence on eclipse and hoty honors....and it should not....i have a real issue with euro grassers coming here, winning a bc race and then being the NORTH AMERICAN ECLIPSE GRASS CHAMPION, whether male or female...sorry....and so many times our good grassers who had great years and a bad bc race, miss the award to the euro..not right...you can bet your last cent that an american horse would never win a euro yr end award based on one win in a big race.....hell, they wouldn't even be on the ballot..but that's a whole other can of worms  lol

I am still waiting for you to name JUST ONE  of the many good grassers who had great years and a bad BC race who lost the Eclipse to a one hit Euro runner.
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« Reply #50 on: January 17, 2010, 01:04:10 PM »

Very interesting post I read in the DRF that I would like to share. I did not check its validity because no one contested him on the blog. Here it is;

The people have spoken:

Zenyatta leads in this second Bloodhorse poll 54% to 46%.

Zenyatta won an earlier poll by Bloodhorse by a similiar margin.

Zenyatta leads in the Albany Times-Union poll of New York 68 to 53.

Zenyatta leads in the Daily Racing Form poll by over 2300 votes!

Zenyatta leads in The Sporting News poll 53% to 47%.

The same goes for the CBSSports Poll, USA Today poll, Chicago Tribune poll and on and on.

Zenyatta leads in the Horseracinginsider poll 56% to 36%.

Zenyatta leads in the Thoroughbred Times poll from over 40 states and 29 countries 50% to 33%.

Zenyatta was voted the best female athlete by the Associated Press other than a human being by the sports editors for the nations' newspapers.

Zenyatta leads in the European poll (Jour de Galop) by 61% to 39%.

Zenyatta is the all time leader in Facebook followed by Sea The Stars, Seabiscuit, and Secretariat.

Zenyatta just beat Rachel Alexander in the NTRA "Moment of the Year" poll.

The people have spoken. The world has spoken. The betting public has spoken. People on this site has spoken.

But what will determine the "Horse of the Year" election - DRF, and the east coast biased NTRA and NTWA.

Posted by: The Public | Jan 14, 2010 at 9:14:18 AM


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




The point for all the useless arguing over which horse is the greatest is over.  This will be decided on the track where it should be.  So it is time for the lawyering for both horses to end.
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mel4600
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« Reply #51 on: January 17, 2010, 01:38:40 PM »


The point for all the useless arguing over which horse is the greatest is over.  This will be decided on the track where it should be.  So it is time for the lawyering for both horses to end.

Who is the better race horse will be settled on the track, however, popular opinion on HOTY is onesided and will be determined by a select few who will continue to bury the sport if Zenyatta does not get it. I'd rather have the race than the HOTY trophy, however, fans on the fence will see it as corrupt.
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Moni for free
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« Reply #52 on: January 17, 2010, 02:50:13 PM »

Who is the better race horse will be settled on the track, however, popular opinion on HOTY is onesided and will be determined by a select few who will continue to bury the sport if Zenyatta does not get it. I'd rather have the race than the HOTY trophy, however, fans on the fence will see it as corrupt.
no.. YOU'LL see it as corrupt.. there is a case made for either horse.. ya know if Zenyatta left the state or beat boys more than once, there would be no arguement, but she didn't and she didn't.... that's why there's an arguement...
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« Reply #53 on: January 17, 2010, 02:55:20 PM »

no.. YOU'LL see it as corrupt.. there is a case made for either horse.. ya know if Zenyatta left the state or beat boys more than once, there would be no arguement, but she didn't and she didn't.... that's why there's an arguement...

It reminds me of the presidential election in Iran! lol

MOST people see it as corrupt...the cases are made by the corrupt. If Rachel showed up and ran 2nd in any BC race there would be no argument...you just don't cold shoulder the Classic races.
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« Reply #54 on: January 17, 2010, 03:15:13 PM »

It reminds me of the presidential election in Iran! lol

MOST people see it as corrupt...the cases are made by the corrupt. If Rachel showed up and ran 2nd in any BC race there would be no argument...you just don't cold shoulder the Classic races.
look the fact that the Breeder's Cup was held at Santa Anita 2 straight years was complete BS... Zenyatta won one huge race.. Rachel did her thing over the entire year... the vote is simple... are you a fan of 1 win in the biggest race or a fan of several wins in several big races.... you don't seem tp understand that both camps have merit....
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« Reply #55 on: January 17, 2010, 03:26:27 PM »

look the fact that the Breeder's Cup was held at Santa Anita 2 straight years was complete BS... Zenyatta won one huge race.. Rachel did her thing over the entire year... the vote is simple... are you a fan of 1 win in the biggest race or a fan of several wins in several big races.... you don't seem tp understand that both camps have merit....

I am a fan of quality horses, not quantity. That's why Rachel made more money with 3 less races.  Wink
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« Reply #56 on: January 17, 2010, 05:32:13 PM »

the award is horse of the YEAR, not horse of the moment.. Rachel did more... went more places and did things no 3 year old filly has EVER done before.  Zenyatta never left California.  If Zenyatta had won the Ladies Classic again would you be making an arguement?  I doubt it.  Zenyatta only has 1 win that puts her in this debate.  Yes, it was the biggest win, but it's just one...
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« Reply #57 on: January 18, 2010, 03:26:19 PM »

I think that makes her have a better chance of winning Horse of the Year.
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