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Author Topic: HB 1917  (Read 4048 times)
BeauNarro
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« Reply #25 on: March 02, 2006, 07:01:37 PM »

I think the point here Beau is that this is a state house and state senate issue.  Writing Obama and Durbin, our US Senators, or Lipinski, your IS Rep, will do nothing as far as this bill goes.

However, definitely write your state reps, state senators and yeah, even Blago so he signs it if it passes.

The point is that I sent a mass e-mail to everyone on my list except for the officials like Madigan that doesn't have an e-mail listed(faxed). It only took about 30 seconds to add all e-mails as c.c.'s. Therefore it wasn't a waste of my time as David said. Rather than point out whats a waste of "my" time, he should be thinking of what he can do to help our industry.
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David
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« Reply #26 on: March 02, 2006, 07:11:38 PM »

Beau, I really have a hard time figuring you out, maybe you just didn't like me pointing out not to write to US Congressman and Senators, I thought I was doing you and other interested parties reading this a favor in pointing you the right direction.

- if you read my comments I never slammed you for wanting to make money with your horses - I would hope you do - my comment wasn't really even about you per se, it was just a general view that what the legistlature wants to hear is not that we will have bigger purses to run for - they want to hear that if we do get those purses how many more horses we will raise in Illinois - that is what pushes the fence straddlers to your side, that was what I was pointing out to you and to this board in general. As for Mr. Madigan - he will decide on other issues and as part of a bigger deal than the breeding, racing or you or I - whether or not you believe that is another topic.

And please don't twist my words - I said "I don't necessarily feel that Illinios racing deserves this bill" I didn't say I was opposed to it and I didn't say I hoped it isn't passed. Honestly I haven't made up my mind yet and won't till we all find out the rest of the package.

Anyways, Beau, I got to go write a letter to Dick Cheney about the street light that is out on my street - have a great night.
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Thomas Graham
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« Reply #27 on: March 02, 2006, 07:28:31 PM »

David - Is your street light out because Cheny mistook it for a quail?
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David
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« Reply #28 on: March 02, 2006, 07:35:00 PM »

TG, That hadn't even dawned on me, but now that you mention it - mabye so - thanks for the laugh.
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BeauNarro
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« Reply #29 on: March 02, 2006, 07:43:21 PM »

LOL touche'

Don't forget to call G. Bush for that 20 yard dumpster you need to haul out all the bullshit in yer back yard.
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CLOCKERTERRY
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« Reply #30 on: March 02, 2006, 10:01:46 PM »

I just looked at the status of the bill, and there's been some fiscal notes added. Latest estimate by the State is the total money that would be extorted from the boats and handed over to the Horse Racing Equity Fund by this bill would be $53 million. You can do your own calculations of who would get what, based on the percentages I posted above.

That amendment 6 of today still looks to be stuck in the rules committee. 
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BeauNarro
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« Reply #31 on: March 02, 2006, 10:17:11 PM »

A guy on the harness side did a decent breakdown and computation. His figures were based on 50mil. The below was copied from his thread:

Here's some quick and unsupported by real hard numbers math:

- $50,000,000 from boats (that number was thrown around here)
- 40% to harness = $20,000,000
- 50% to purses = $10,000,000
- Add the removal of recapture = $800,000 (this could be way off, though I saw it on here one time).

Total additions = $10,800,000.  Divide by 360 racing days = $30,000 per day.  Figure current nightly purses are about $55,000, this would mean an increase of about 35%.

I hope this is somewhat correct, because that is a very meaningful number.

On the t-bred side it would be more on the top numbers and consequentily downward because I beleive it was 60% to t-breds.
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jrstark
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« Reply #32 on: March 02, 2006, 10:32:27 PM »

If $30M to Thoroughbred and $15M to purses, divided by 314 racing days (94 AP, 49 SPT, 80 Haw, 90 FP) it is over $47,000 per day.

Do we have a deferred recapture bomb?
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CLOCKERTERRY
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« Reply #33 on: March 02, 2006, 10:38:26 PM »

Thanks for reposting that. Not sure it is exactly right, but probably close.

One thing that puzzles me is the 50%. When you read the IHHA web page, they talk about how they cut a side deal with the tracks to take half the dough (50%) and waive all future recapture. The proposed law says 60%. I wonder if that was their tradeoff, 50% of the money instead of 60%, in return for waiving future recapture. Would it make sense on our side, too?  
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CLOCKERTERRY
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« Reply #34 on: March 02, 2006, 10:45:02 PM »

If $30M to Thoroughbred and $15M to purses, divided by 314 racing days (94 AP, 49 SPT, 80 Haw, 90 FP) it is over $47,000 per day.

Do we have a deferred recapture bomb?

I was under the impression the thoroughbred side had been trying to keep current on the recapture, so there was no bomb. Not that the rank and file would ever learn anything it about via non-existent newsletter, of course. Hey, no word at all about the progress of this bill on the ITHA web page, either, what a surprise.

Quick calculation here, more like $18 million to thoroughbred purses.

Late quick calculation: 50% of that to AP, 38% to Haw, 11% to FP, 1% to bit bucket. Roughly.
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BeauNarro
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« Reply #35 on: March 02, 2006, 10:53:43 PM »

As previously stated by many others..alot can be changed from todays proposal to the final signed amendment into law. First lets hope that recapture is eliminated, and then that the politicians don't mess the rest of this up.

I noticed that to Terry. As of 2 hours ago(last I looked) there wasn't a peep from the ITHA.

I'm not sure I understand. If they keep current on recapture it just means that purses will go up and down depending on overpayments and underpayments. If it were eliminated wouldn't purses stay level?
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« Reply #36 on: March 02, 2006, 10:57:39 PM »

I'm not sure I understand. If they keep current on recapture it just means that purses will go up and down depending on overpayments and underpayments. If it were eliminated wouldn't purses stay level?

I don't understand the question. Doesn't matter if there is recapture or not, purses go up and down based on over and under-payments. Happens at every track in the country, but we are the only ones blessed with recapture. If recapture was eliminated they would just go up and down in a higher band range. For now. Until more people desert the tracks and parlors for phone and Internet accounts.
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Jim C
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« Reply #37 on: March 02, 2006, 11:07:10 PM »

Well its no surprise that the ITHA has no update, they are far too busy trying to cover their own butts during the upcoming investigation, but thats for another post!

If recapture was dropped purses would go up a good 800k or more, it has nothing to do with over/underpayments.
I would love to see if the ITHA even tried to cut a deal with the tracks on recapture, but again there is no way to find out except to ask them and I personally wouldn't trust a word they told me.

If the tracks have to show where the money they get will go and its all toward the racing product then this may be a good deal IF recapture can be addressed in some way, maybe even in the contract with the horsemen and tracks from year to year. Now I wouldn't mind if the casinos get to add more gaming positions too, time to get their cash flow even higher!
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Horse Voice
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« Reply #38 on: March 03, 2006, 07:13:04 AM »

I know all of the arguments -- purses will be fat, handle will skyrocket, men in hats and ties will again fill the stands, but...

This bill will fail, miserably, because it looks and feels like welfare for horse racing -- welfare, because horse racing will not be putting forth any extra effort in return for receiving this money...at least in the eyes of our elected officials.

That's classic Republican thinking, BTW, and we are decidedly in a Republican era, so don't shoot the messenger.
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David
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« Reply #39 on: March 03, 2006, 07:34:11 AM »

I know all of the arguments -- purses will be fat, handle will skyrocket, men in hats and ties will again fill the stands, but...

This bill will fail, miserably, because it looks and feels like welfare for horse racing -- welfare, because horse racing will not be putting forth any extra effort in return for receiving this money...at least in the eyes of our elected officials.

That's classic Republican thinking, BTW, and we are decidedly in a Republican era, so don't shoot the messenger.

I would agree with you HV, I doubt the chances of this bill - unless it is part of a bigger deal which the key players are keeping silent on until the last minute- such as casino expansion or video poker or something along those lines.

The country definetly has gone Republican, but Illinois is solid Blue, look at Beau's list of elected officials above - only Topinka ruining a clean sweep.
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BeauNarro
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« Reply #40 on: March 03, 2006, 09:41:36 AM »

I would agree with you HV, I doubt the chances of this bill - unless it is part of a bigger deal which the key players are keeping silent on until the last minute- such as casino expansion or video poker or something along those lines.

The country definetly has gone Republican, but Illinois is solid Blue, look at Beau's list of elected officials above - only Topinka ruining a clean sweep.

And what's funny about that is that Topinka will probably beat Blago for governor. Everyone hates liars. Oh, that last sentance pertains to 99.99% of all politicians.
With Topinka the tracks would have more of a chance to get slots than Blago, or so Tom Carey senior thinks. That's another alternative this still supposedly isn't dead either. This buzz isn't new to me. For the last 6 years at the beginning of every single legaslative session EVERYONE at Hawthorne was SURE that slots would be approved or that the state would give a percentage of the boats to them. This is just the first time I've seen the buzz from the other side.
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« Reply #41 on: March 03, 2006, 10:10:39 AM »

There is some activity today.

http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/billstatus.asp?DocNum=1917&GAID=8&GA=94&DocTypeID=HB&LegID=16754&SessionID=50
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Jim C
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« Reply #42 on: March 03, 2006, 12:15:01 PM »

I get so tired of hearing the same old complaint that racing is just getting a welfare check or a subsidy from the state. Look the fact is the world has changed and racing in many states are getting added money for the game. When the idea of slots is put forward all we hear is that the tracks want to bury racing and just have a casino or that there will be little in no attention paid to racing. OK fair enough, so now we have a proposal for a 3% fee to be paid to racing from the casinos which have hurt racing and still operate under far different rules than racing. So no slots to take attention away from the races and some money to help us compete with states that do have slots or soon will (like Ky). Joe public could not care less about this 3% and the casinos wont mind it either has it keeps the tracks from asking for slots for at least a few years, keeps the push to open the 10 casino down which all adds up to less competition for them. The 3% is a small price to pay for them so I do not see much of a fight coming from them but I could see them asking for an increase in gaming positions which would be fine for us too.

The argument that racing has to fix itself is fine, but its never going to happen if other states have more money flowing into the purse account from alternative sources making it impossible to compete with them from the start. Once this additional money begins to flow then we will see what if anything is done. But with the price of horses these days there is no way you can buy a quality horse at a sale and run it here and make any profit let alone break even. Purses have to go up or things will just continue to slide. Alternative sources of money for racing is a reality now, so we all have to deal with it, just how we deal with it is what we should be talking about.
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CLOCKERTERRY
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« Reply #43 on: March 03, 2006, 12:19:21 PM »

I see some requests for information about affordable housing and some judicial aspect from one Rep. I wonder if that is related to all the brou-ha-ha over backside housing at Arlington, since this bill mandates that all the free money to be given to the tracks is to be spent on infrastructure improvements, etc.

Nothing of real note as far as action, however.
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« Reply #44 on: March 03, 2006, 12:43:55 PM »

Thank you for that post Jim C. That was well said.
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CLOCKERTERRY
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« Reply #45 on: March 03, 2006, 12:56:52 PM »

Joe public could not care less about this 3% and the casinos wont mind it either has it keeps the tracks from asking for slots for at least a few years, keeps the push to open the 10 casino down which all adds up to less competition for them. The 3% is a small price to pay for them

That's what I said, extortion.
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big wally
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« Reply #46 on: March 03, 2006, 06:10:09 PM »

Last update... Consideration  Postponed
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« Reply #47 on: March 03, 2006, 06:39:09 PM »

Many keep stating that Ill racing needs a subsidy to compete with other states that have slots. We couldn't compete when no one had slots / slots money. So tell me again what's going to change. I was at HAW today. It was deserted. The avereage age of the patrons had to be seventy. Terrible card with short fields. I believe Illinois racing is all but dead. Slots or no slots.

Ed
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CLOCKERTERRY
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« Reply #48 on: March 03, 2006, 06:56:30 PM »

Many keep stating that Ill racing needs a subsidy to compete with other states that have slots. We couldn't compete when no one had slots / slots money. So tell me again what's going to change.

That's a question I've always asked. What were we doing to get ahead BEFORE slots slowed up at Prairie Meadows in 1995? Why should we believe anyone is going to do anything other than business as usual if we get this free money?

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I was at HAW today. It was deserted. The avereage age of the patrons had to be seventy.

Many people under the age of seventy work on Fridays. Not all, but many. Maybe the real problem with horse racing is that "racetrack bum" is no longer considered an honorable profession for younger people.
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Jim C
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« Reply #49 on: March 04, 2006, 01:11:43 AM »

One thing that needs to change is the stupid rule that says the nights belong to harness racing. Want bigger crowds? Here is an idea, race when people ARE NOT WORKING!

As far as what we were doing to get ahead in 1995. First the world was pretty different back then as far as what people did with their free time. The internet was in its infancy. We had just passed the bill to allow full card simulcasting which if I recall we were one of the first states to do so. So the effort was there to change and compete, it just didn't work as advertised. I would also point out that it wasn't all that long ago that Illinois racing was in better shape then Ky. racing.

There are 2 views you need to look at regarding slots or any other money going to racing. First and most important in MHO is the owner's view yes this is a bit bias since I am an owner, but since we are the ones that supply the product on which the customer bets I think our viewpoint is rather important. The reason we need money to be added to the purse account is to allow owners to at least have a shot at breaking even on buying and breeding horses that we race. If we cannot do that more and more will be dropping out of the game or going elsewhere for better money. This is what I have tried to explain before is where the additional horses will come from to help fill races in Illinois. Now I know some especially Terry do not agree with that point, they may be right, only time will tell. But until we get the added money we will never know.

The other viewpoint is that of the fan. Higher purses mean nothing to them unless field sizes grow and races here become more attractive to wager on. Right now I think we can all agree that things are only getting worse or at the very best stagnate. neither of which bolds well for the future. However, just as higher purses mean little to the fan, getting 3% from the casinos to keep the tracks from asking for slots shouldn't mean a damn thing to them either as long as the product improves. If it doesn't, they have lost nothing and if it does they have plenty to gain. So what is all the fuss about? The fan has no investment except for what he/she CHOOSES to bet. The fan has no overhead, no costs, no risk nothing except for what they wish to wager. It really shouldn't matter at all to the fan where the money comes from as long as the product they get is bettable.

All I heard on this site when slots were being pushed for was that the slots were going to take over the tracks, racing was going to be an afterthought, racing was going to be the second class citizen blah blah blah. OK so now we are working toward a 3% fee from the casinos. Pretty much what has taken place in NJ. They are paying us to keep from pushing for slots. Terry wants to call that extortion, thats his right, I would call it good business on the casino's part. Yet we still hear complaints that racing shouldn't get a dime, racing here sucks, things wont change blah blah blah. I still hear no suggestions for other ways to fix things. No suggestions on how to compete with other states that have added money going to purses. Its enough to make one think that some of you just like to read/hear yourselves *** and complain.

Some of you say that even with added money things will still be business as usual. Just what is business as usual anyway? Racing 5 days a week, yep that wont change. The racing dates, nope they wont change, Cheaper food? Nope I doubt it since that is leased out to others, free admission? Maybe, but is 6 dollars really going to make that much difference to everyone? Id like to know if every race had at least 8 horses or 10 horses in them would you really care if you got in for free? What is it that is done here that is so bad compared to other tracks in NY, Ca., Fl, that you all want changed so badly? Id seriously like to know except fr the short fields what you would realistically like to see changed? If its just full fields then you are going to have to pay the owners more in purse money to invest in more horses.
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