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Author Topic: HB 1917  (Read 3985 times)
medic_61353
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« on: March 01, 2006, 10:23:56 PM »

Link to HB 1917

http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/fulltext.asp?DocName=09400HB1917ham002&GA=94&SessionId=50&DocTypeId=HB&LegID=16754&DocNum=1917&GAID=8&Session
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BeauNarro
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« Reply #1 on: March 01, 2006, 10:35:31 PM »

Doesn't it still need to be voted on though medic? With the full senate? Or is it now law?
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medic_61353
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« Reply #2 on: March 01, 2006, 10:45:57 PM »

It passed a house executive session today and has support of all six horseman associations. I'm not sure whats next.
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« Reply #3 on: March 01, 2006, 10:47:24 PM »

<<<<<Ol' Beau kneels down to say a prayer..>>>>>
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CLOCKERTERRY
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« Reply #4 on: March 01, 2006, 10:58:47 PM »

It passed a house executive session today and has support of all six horseman associations. I'm not sure whats next.

I think what happens next is the riverboat lobbyists take a number of key lawmakers out to get fed, drunk, laid, and "contributed", and the bill sees no further light of day.

If there was an extra 3% tax on existing boats to pay for horse racing that went away when the 10th boat gets operating, however, it might be powerful incentive for them to quit messing around behind the scenes in that stinky 10th license affair.
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« Reply #5 on: March 01, 2006, 11:07:36 PM »

isn't it something like 15% of the 10th license would go to horse industry?
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CLOCKERTERRY
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« Reply #6 on: March 01, 2006, 11:28:03 PM »

isn't it something like 15% of the 10th license would go to horse industry?

Yes, that would be the percentage from that 10th license. 3% of nine boats, or 15% of one boat, your call. I didn't read this bill fully yet. I thought it was the 3% until that 10th license was up, then back to the 15% of the one. I could be wrong on that.
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Jim C
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« Reply #7 on: March 02, 2006, 02:23:18 AM »

What happens next is that the bill will go to the full house to be voted on and IF it passes it would then go on to the Senate for a vote, if passed there then on to the Gov's desk for his signature or veto. It may have to go to the Rules Committee before any vote takes place, I'm not sure though its been some time since I have been in Springfield playing the please pass our bill game.

I do not think all 6 associations are on board. I believe the IHHA is not backing the bill since it does not drop recapture and honestly I don't see how the ITHA can back the bill for the same reason. Since racing is only getting 3% in trade for the 15% from the 10th casino and the state paying recapture it seems we are again getting short changed here. By the time all the pieces of pie are handed out I don't see where the purse account is going to increase all that much. In the meantime the state will have the idea they have done all they need for racing so don't expect anything for a long time to come. So we are still stuck with recapture, no account wagering, host track, and no slots. One good thing I did read in the bill is that some of the money the tracks get will be based on handle so maybe we can expect to see some real competition for the gambling dollar. But as Terry has asked in the past, since the tracks are not having to spend anything or change anything and are still getting recapture why should they get any of the 3%? Shouldn't all that money go to purses, promotions, breeding etc?? Unless we see a plan as to what the tracks will do with that money OR they must be required to re invest all of that money into the game I just don't see all that much improvement on the horizon.
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medic_61353
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« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2006, 06:34:25 AM »

Jim C, The information I received was from the IHHA and the SA-IL. Both stated on there web sites that they support the bill and to call your reps. SA-IL said on there site that all associations support the bill. It does address recapture.
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« Reply #9 on: March 02, 2006, 07:24:15 AM »

. . . Since racing is only getting 3% in trade for the 15% from the 10th casino and the state paying recapture it seems we are again getting short changed here.

The proposed bill is giving the tracks/industry free money and already we are being "short changed"

Ed
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BeauNarro
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« Reply #10 on: March 02, 2006, 09:51:20 AM »

Why doesn't the state require the tracks to do the same thing that they used to do with the split money before they receive any or part of this 3%?
The funds from the 3% would go into an interest bearing account, and in order to acquire any of the respective cash they would need to demonstrate that they have completed certain pre-determined criteria along with all supporting paperwork.

ex: Hawthorne installs a new energy management system for their HVAC system at a cost of $150,000.00

They would need to supply: 1)waivers of lien from contractors and suppliers
                                       2)anti-collusion statements from all above
                                       3)all paid invoices(attached to waivers)

For years the tracks had to complete this process in order to receive the split money, but about 5 years ago that rule just went away. The split money is approximately a few hundred thousand per year. The above is just one example of what they could do.
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« Reply #11 on: March 02, 2006, 03:15:24 PM »

I spent some time reading this bill. It should be noted, a Rep. Angelo Saviano has submitted a new amendment 6 as of today, that is currently referred to the Rules Committee (which may or may not be meaningful, all the other amendments were rubber stamped in the executive committee). I'll comment on this below.

First thing to note is, this bill does not address Recapture at all. It only addresses Section 54 of the Horse Racing Act, about the Equity Fund. I went to the IHHA website to see what they had to say, since they occasionally update theirs, unlike our ITHA. They claim to have a separate contract agreement with the harness tracks to waive all future recapture if this bill passes, but I know of no similar agreement between ITHA and throughbred tracks. Thus, while this bill would bring more purse money to the table, it would just be more purse money for Arlington and Hawthorne to loot via recapture. Caveat emptor.

Highlights:

Writes a bunch of hooting and hollering about how dedicated the State is to horse racing. About as meaningul as the preamble to the 1999 bill. Says this bill may raise Illinois purses by 50% and vault it into the stratosphere of 2nd or 3rd in the nation in purses. Uh huh.

Amends the State Finance Act to hide the Horse Racing Equity Fund from the greedy governor, so he can't loot it to fill budget holes like he loots every other dedicated fund. Names a bunch of other pet funds he can't loot.

Amends the Horse Racing Act, specifically section 54 about the Equity Fund, to say that 60% of the money would go to purses, 57% of that to flats purses and 43% to harness. The other 40% of the money would go to the tracks, and be divided up 11% to Fairmount, and then the remaining according to percent of total Illinois live handle they generated, which by my estimation would be (of the remainder): harness tracks 44%, Arlington 36%, Hawthorne 20%. The bill also specifies that all the money the tracks get from the bill is supposed to be spent on things like facility improvement, marketing, etc. We know that's a joke - they would just spend this money and keep back whatever money they were already spending. There's nothing about spending any money at all to better fund the IRB for more testing and enforcement, and I have written my Rep. to express my concern about that.

Amends the Riverboat Gaming Act - 3% of AGR into the Horse Racing Equity Fund. One amendment exempted casinos under $50M, so that would be Rock Island. Then, originally, the section about 15% of the tenth license was removed, but today's Amendment 6 put it back in. Also, the section about the State contributing an equal amount to education as the 15% was originally struck out (so much for "the children" - POOF! but they were never really anyone's concern in the first place, were they? nudge nudge, wink wink), but today's amendment puts that back in, too. What I don't see in today's amendment is anything about rescinding the 3% of all AGR if the 15% of the 10th license kicks in.

That's my take on it, anyhow. I'm not a professional legislator, your results may vary. Here's a link to today's amendment, which includes most of the other amendments:

http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/fulltext.asp?DocName=09400HB1917ham006&GA=94&SessionId=50&DocTypeId=HB&LegID=16754&DocNum=1917&GAID=8&Session=   
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« Reply #12 on: March 02, 2006, 04:59:17 PM »

Just a gut feeling here..

Although I would like to see HB1917 sail through all the committees and the governors' desk, because it would benefit all of us horsemen from owners/breeders, track owners, farm owners/workers, trainers, and all the way down the line to the betting public--something--deep down inside--is telling me it's not gonna happen-at least not right now. Hopefully I'm wrong, but I'll beleive it when I see it.
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DAK
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« Reply #13 on: March 02, 2006, 05:31:53 PM »

Apparently it wasn't called today.

Good chance for tomorrow.

Stay tuned.
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BeauNarro
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« Reply #14 on: March 02, 2006, 05:50:26 PM »

I e-mailed Rep. Lipinski on behalf of myself and my wife. It wouldn't hurt for everyone to get involved and do the same.
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David
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« Reply #15 on: March 02, 2006, 06:38:42 PM »

Beua, Dan Lipinski is a US Congressman.
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BeauNarro
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« Reply #16 on: March 02, 2006, 06:43:39 PM »

OK I also e-mailed Mike Madigan, and Blago, and Obama

Oops had to fax to Madigan due to no listed e-mail.
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David
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« Reply #17 on: March 02, 2006, 06:54:18 PM »

The real one you want to email is your local rep, that is someone you might influence - if your local rep is Madigan - but I doubt it is if Lipinski is your US Congressman  - then you have taken care of it as best you can.
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BeauNarro
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« Reply #18 on: March 02, 2006, 06:57:11 PM »

I'm in un-incorporated cook county, Lyons Township.
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David
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« Reply #19 on: March 02, 2006, 07:00:21 PM »

mmadigan@hds.ilga.gov

But honestly he isn't worth your time to email, he isn't going to be swayed by constituents - if you are even in your district.

A point to make, and this goes to your questioning the Ill Bred program, that the only point that really holds water with the legislature is the agcri business aspect of racing - they don't care that you want to make more money with your horses - they want to hear that if they increase the purses you will want to  have more horses being bred and raised in Illinois, which will in turn employ all the farm help, vets, blacksmiths, feed merchants and on and on as Terry had mentioned in a previous thread.
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David
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« Reply #20 on: March 02, 2006, 07:04:50 PM »

http://www.ilga.gov/sitemap.asp

Look under legislature lookup - you just type your address in and it tells you who your guys are.
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BeauNarro
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« Reply #21 on: March 02, 2006, 07:11:57 PM »

I don't know who you think you are David, but I'll bet that we (my wife and I) own more broodmares, yearlings, and sucklings on Illinois property (Monee) than you do right now at this immediate moment.
That's not to mention our race horses which also employ trainers, grooms, hotwalkers, exercise riders, vets, blacksmiths, etc.

So what's yer point. What are you doing to try to help push this through. If you want to sit on your laurels..be my guest. If you feel it's not worth my time--well it's my time, not yours.

Oh by the way:

Name District/Office Party
Daniel William Lipinski  3rd, US Representative  Democrat
Louis S. Viverito  11st, State Senator  Democrat
Michael J. Madigan  22nd, State Representative  Democrat
Barack Obama  US Senator  Democrat
Richard J. Durbin  US Senator  Democrat
Rod R. Blagojevich  Governor  Democrat
Pat Quinn  Lieutenant Governor  Democrat
Lisa Madigan  Attorney General  Democrat
Jesse White  Secretary of State  Democrat
Daniel W. Hynes  Comptroller  Democrat
Judy Baar Topinka  Treasurer  Republican
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Thomas Graham
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« Reply #22 on: March 02, 2006, 07:27:39 PM »

I think the point here Beau is that this is a state house and state senate issue.  Writing Obama and Durbin, our US Senators, or Lipinski, your IS Rep, will do nothing as far as this bill goes.

However, definitely write your state reps, state senators and yeah, even Blago so he signs it if it passes.
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« Reply #23 on: March 02, 2006, 07:28:53 PM »

Beau, I don't necessarily feel that Illinois racing deserves the bill, I was just trying to point you in the right direction as you feel it does need to get passed and you emailing a US rep or US Senator has absolutley nothing to do with getting this bill passed, I'm trying to be helpful to you - and you come back with your often bs attitude - if you think you are going to swing Mike Madigan on this issue - god bless you - you better have a big check book to get the dontations rolling - I assume that means you are in his district the list you posted- I wish you well.

If you take offense to my pointing out of the arguement that is able to sell the subsidy - that being agribusiness, that is all the downstaters care about - they don't care at all about horse trainers, jockeys or owners being able to make more money - that is just the hard truth of the matter. I just tried pointing this out to you - but why bother.
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« Reply #24 on: March 02, 2006, 07:55:22 PM »

David, so you hope the bill isn't passed. Everyone is entitled to their own opinoin. The thing that bothered me was that you had made a negative(as usual) reply to one of my posts. In my e-mail I never even mentioned our horse racing business. I stressed agribusiness, but somehow you assumed that all we care about is racing.

"But honestly he isn't worth your time to email, he isn't going to be swayed by constituents - if you are even in your district.

A point to make, and this goes to your questioning the Ill Bred program, that the only point that really holds water with the legislature is the agcri business aspect of racing - they don't care that you want to make more money with your horses - they want to hear that if they increase the purses you will want to  have more horses being bred and raised in Illinois, which will in turn employ all the farm help, vets, blacksmiths, feed merchants and on and on as Terry had mentioned in a previous thread."
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BeauNarro
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« Reply #25 on: March 02, 2006, 08:01:37 PM »

I think the point here Beau is that this is a state house and state senate issue.  Writing Obama and Durbin, our US Senators, or Lipinski, your IS Rep, will do nothing as far as this bill goes.

However, definitely write your state reps, state senators and yeah, even Blago so he signs it if it passes.

The point is that I sent a mass e-mail to everyone on my list except for the officials like Madigan that doesn't have an e-mail listed(faxed). It only took about 30 seconds to add all e-mails as c.c.'s. Therefore it wasn't a waste of my time as David said. Rather than point out whats a waste of "my" time, he should be thinking of what he can do to help our industry.
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« Reply #26 on: March 02, 2006, 08:11:38 PM »

Beau, I really have a hard time figuring you out, maybe you just didn't like me pointing out not to write to US Congressman and Senators, I thought I was doing you and other interested parties reading this a favor in pointing you the right direction.

- if you read my comments I never slammed you for wanting to make money with your horses - I would hope you do - my comment wasn't really even about you per se, it was just a general view that what the legistlature wants to hear is not that we will have bigger purses to run for - they want to hear that if we do get those purses how many more horses we will raise in Illinois - that is what pushes the fence straddlers to your side, that was what I was pointing out to you and to this board in general. As for Mr. Madigan - he will decide on other issues and as part of a bigger deal than the breeding, racing or you or I - whether or not you believe that is another topic.

And please don't twist my words - I said "I don't necessarily feel that Illinios racing deserves this bill" I didn't say I was opposed to it and I didn't say I hoped it isn't passed. Honestly I haven't made up my mind yet and won't till we all find out the rest of the package.

Anyways, Beau, I got to go write a letter to Dick Cheney about the street light that is out on my street - have a great night.
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Thomas Graham
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« Reply #27 on: March 02, 2006, 08:28:31 PM »

David - Is your street light out because Cheny mistook it for a quail?
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David
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« Reply #28 on: March 02, 2006, 08:35:00 PM »

TG, That hadn't even dawned on me, but now that you mention it - mabye so - thanks for the laugh.
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BeauNarro
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« Reply #29 on: March 02, 2006, 08:43:21 PM »

LOL touche'

Don't forget to call G. Bush for that 20 yard dumpster you need to haul out all the bullshit in yer back yard.
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« Reply #30 on: March 02, 2006, 11:01:46 PM »

I just looked at the status of the bill, and there's been some fiscal notes added. Latest estimate by the State is the total money that would be extorted from the boats and handed over to the Horse Racing Equity Fund by this bill would be $53 million. You can do your own calculations of who would get what, based on the percentages I posted above.

That amendment 6 of today still looks to be stuck in the rules committee. 
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« Reply #31 on: March 02, 2006, 11:17:11 PM »

A guy on the harness side did a decent breakdown and computation. His figures were based on 50mil. The below was copied from his thread:

Here's some quick and unsupported by real hard numbers math:

- $50,000,000 from boats (that number was thrown around here)
- 40% to harness = $20,000,000
- 50% to purses = $10,000,000
- Add the removal of recapture = $800,000 (this could be way off, though I saw it on here one time).

Total additions = $10,800,000.  Divide by 360 racing days = $30,000 per day.  Figure current nightly purses are about $55,000, this would mean an increase of about 35%.

I hope this is somewhat correct, because that is a very meaningful number.

On the t-bred side it would be more on the top numbers and consequentily downward because I beleive it was 60% to t-breds.
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« Reply #32 on: March 02, 2006, 11:32:27 PM »

If $30M to Thoroughbred and $15M to purses, divided by 314 racing days (94 AP, 49 SPT, 80 Haw, 90 FP) it is over $47,000 per day.

Do we have a deferred recapture bomb?
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CLOCKERTERRY
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« Reply #33 on: March 02, 2006, 11:38:26 PM »

Thanks for reposting that. Not sure it is exactly right, but probably close.

One thing that puzzles me is the 50%. When you read the IHHA web page, they talk about how they cut a side deal with the tracks to take half the dough (50%) and waive all future recapture. The proposed law says 60%. I wonder if that was their tradeoff, 50% of the money instead of 60%, in return for waiving future recapture. Would it make sense on our side, too?  
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« Reply #34 on: March 02, 2006, 11:45:02 PM »

If $30M to Thoroughbred and $15M to purses, divided by 314 racing days (94 AP, 49 SPT, 80 Haw, 90 FP) it is over $47,000 per day.

Do we have a deferred recapture bomb?

I was under the impression the thoroughbred side had been trying to keep current on the recapture, so there was no bomb. Not that the rank and file would ever learn anything it about via non-existent newsletter, of course. Hey, no word at all about the progress of this bill on the ITHA web page, either, what a surprise.

Quick calculation here, more like $18 million to thoroughbred purses.

Late quick calculation: 50% of that to AP, 38% to Haw, 11% to FP, 1% to bit bucket. Roughly.
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« Reply #35 on: March 02, 2006, 11:53:43 PM »

As previously stated by many others..alot can be changed from todays proposal to the final signed amendment into law. First lets hope that recapture is eliminated, and then that the politicians don't mess the rest of this up.

I noticed that to Terry. As of 2 hours ago(last I looked) there wasn't a peep from the ITHA.

I'm not sure I understand. If they keep current on recapture it just means that purses will go up and down depending on overpayments and underpayments. If it were eliminated wouldn't purses stay level?
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« Reply #36 on: March 02, 2006, 11:57:39 PM »

I'm not sure I understand. If they keep current on recapture it just means that purses will go up and down depending on overpayments and underpayments. If it were eliminated wouldn't purses stay level?

I don't understand the question. Doesn't matter if there is recapture or not, purses go up and down based on over and under-payments. Happens at every track in the country, but we are the only ones blessed with recapture. If recapture was eliminated they would just go up and down in a higher band range. For now. Until more people desert the tracks and parlors for phone and Internet accounts.
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« Reply #37 on: March 03, 2006, 12:07:10 AM »

Well its no surprise that the ITHA has no update, they are far too busy trying to cover their own butts during the upcoming investigation, but thats for another post!

If recapture was dropped purses would go up a good 800k or more, it has nothing to do with over/underpayments.
I would love to see if the ITHA even tried to cut a deal with the tracks on recapture, but again there is no way to find out except to ask them and I personally wouldn't trust a word they told me.

If the tracks have to show where the money they get will go and its all toward the racing product then this may be a good deal IF recapture can be addressed in some way, maybe even in the contract with the horsemen and tracks from year to year. Now I wouldn't mind if the casinos get to add more gaming positions too, time to get their cash flow even higher!
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« Reply #38 on: March 03, 2006, 08:13:04 AM »

I know all of the arguments -- purses will be fat, handle will skyrocket, men in hats and ties will again fill the stands, but...

This bill will fail, miserably, because it looks and feels like welfare for horse racing -- welfare, because horse racing will not be putting forth any extra effort in return for receiving this money...at least in the eyes of our elected officials.

That's classic Republican thinking, BTW, and we are decidedly in a Republican era, so don't shoot the messenger.
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« Reply #39 on: March 03, 2006, 08:34:11 AM »

I know all of the arguments -- purses will be fat, handle will skyrocket, men in hats and ties will again fill the stands, but...

This bill will fail, miserably, because it looks and feels like welfare for horse racing -- welfare, because horse racing will not be putting forth any extra effort in return for receiving this money...at least in the eyes of our elected officials.

That's classic Republican thinking, BTW, and we are decidedly in a Republican era, so don't shoot the messenger.

I would agree with you HV, I doubt the chances of this bill - unless it is part of a bigger deal which the key players are keeping silent on until the last minute- such as casino expansion or video poker or something along those lines.

The country definetly has gone Republican, but Illinois is solid Blue, look at Beau's list of elected officials above - only Topinka ruining a clean sweep.
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« Reply #40 on: March 03, 2006, 10:41:36 AM »

I would agree with you HV, I doubt the chances of this bill - unless it is part of a bigger deal which the key players are keeping silent on until the last minute- such as casino expansion or video poker or something along those lines.

The country definetly has gone Republican, but Illinois is solid Blue, look at Beau's list of elected officials above - only Topinka ruining a clean sweep.

And what's funny about that is that Topinka will probably beat Blago for governor. Everyone hates liars. Oh, that last sentance pertains to 99.99% of all politicians.
With Topinka the tracks would have more of a chance to get slots than Blago, or so Tom Carey senior thinks. That's another alternative this still supposedly isn't dead either. This buzz isn't new to me. For the last 6 years at the beginning of every single legaslative session EVERYONE at Hawthorne was SURE that slots would be approved or that the state would give a percentage of the boats to them. This is just the first time I've seen the buzz from the other side.
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« Reply #41 on: March 03, 2006, 11:10:39 AM »

There is some activity today.

http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/billstatus.asp?DocNum=1917&GAID=8&GA=94&DocTypeID=HB&LegID=16754&SessionID=50
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« Reply #42 on: March 03, 2006, 01:15:01 PM »

I get so tired of hearing the same old complaint that racing is just getting a welfare check or a subsidy from the state. Look the fact is the world has changed and racing in many states are getting added money for the game. When the idea of slots is put forward all we hear is that the tracks want to bury racing and just have a casino or that there will be little in no attention paid to racing. OK fair enough, so now we have a proposal for a 3% fee to be paid to racing from the casinos which have hurt racing and still operate under far different rules than racing. So no slots to take attention away from the races and some money to help us compete with states that do have slots or soon will (like Ky). Joe public could not care less about this 3% and the casinos wont mind it either has it keeps the tracks from asking for slots for at least a few years, keeps the push to open the 10 casino down which all adds up to less competition for them. The 3% is a small price to pay for them so I do not see much of a fight coming from them but I could see them asking for an increase in gaming positions which would be fine for us too.

The argument that racing has to fix itself is fine, but its never going to happen if other states have more money flowing into the purse account from alternative sources making it impossible to compete with them from the start. Once this additional money begins to flow then we will see what if anything is done. But with the price of horses these days there is no way you can buy a quality horse at a sale and run it here and make any profit let alone break even. Purses have to go up or things will just continue to slide. Alternative sources of money for racing is a reality now, so we all have to deal with it, just how we deal with it is what we should be talking about.
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« Reply #43 on: March 03, 2006, 01:19:21 PM »

I see some requests for information about affordable housing and some judicial aspect from one Rep. I wonder if that is related to all the brou-ha-ha over backside housing at Arlington, since this bill mandates that all the free money to be given to the tracks is to be spent on infrastructure improvements, etc.

Nothing of real note as far as action, however.
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« Reply #44 on: March 03, 2006, 01:43:55 PM »

Thank you for that post Jim C. That was well said.
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« Reply #45 on: March 03, 2006, 01:56:52 PM »

Joe public could not care less about this 3% and the casinos wont mind it either has it keeps the tracks from asking for slots for at least a few years, keeps the push to open the 10 casino down which all adds up to less competition for them. The 3% is a small price to pay for them

That's what I said, extortion.
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« Reply #46 on: March 03, 2006, 07:10:09 PM »

Last update... Consideration  Postponed
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« Reply #47 on: March 03, 2006, 07:39:09 PM »

Many keep stating that Ill racing needs a subsidy to compete with other states that have slots. We couldn't compete when no one had slots / slots money. So tell me again what's going to change. I was at HAW today. It was deserted. The avereage age of the patrons had to be seventy. Terrible card with short fields. I believe Illinois racing is all but dead. Slots or no slots.

Ed
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CLOCKERTERRY
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« Reply #48 on: March 03, 2006, 07:56:30 PM »

Many keep stating that Ill racing needs a subsidy to compete with other states that have slots. We couldn't compete when no one had slots / slots money. So tell me again what's going to change.

That's a question I've always asked. What were we doing to get ahead BEFORE slots slowed up at Prairie Meadows in 1995? Why should we believe anyone is going to do anything other than business as usual if we get this free money?

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I was at HAW today. It was deserted. The avereage age of the patrons had to be seventy.

Many people under the age of seventy work on Fridays. Not all, but many. Maybe the real problem with horse racing is that "racetrack bum" is no longer considered an honorable profession for younger people.
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« Reply #49 on: March 04, 2006, 02:11:43 AM »

One thing that needs to change is the stupid rule that says the nights belong to harness racing. Want bigger crowds? Here is an idea, race when people ARE NOT WORKING!

As far as what we were doing to get ahead in 1995. First the world was pretty different back then as far as what people did with their free time. The internet was in its infancy. We had just passed the bill to allow full card simulcasting which if I recall we were one of the first states to do so. So the effort was there to change and compete, it just didn't work as advertised. I would also point out that it wasn't all that long ago that Illinois racing was in better shape then Ky. racing.

There are 2 views you need to look at regarding slots or any other money going to racing. First and most important in MHO is the owner's view yes this is a bit bias since I am an owner, but since we are the ones that supply the product on which the customer bets I think our viewpoint is rather important. The reason we need money to be added to the purse account is to allow owners to at least have a shot at breaking even on buying and breeding horses that we race. If we cannot do that more and more will be dropping out of the game or going elsewhere for better money. This is what I have tried to explain before is where the additional horses will come from to help fill races in Illinois. Now I know some especially Terry do not agree with that point, they may be right, only time will tell. But until we get the added money we will never know.

The other viewpoint is that of the fan. Higher purses mean nothing to them unless field sizes grow and races here become more attractive to wager on. Right now I think we can all agree that things are only getting worse or at the very best stagnate. neither of which bolds well for the future. However, just as higher purses mean little to the fan, getting 3% from the casinos to keep the tracks from asking for slots shouldn't mean a damn thing to them either as long as the product improves. If it doesn't, they have lost nothing and if it does they have plenty to gain. So what is all the fuss about? The fan has no investment except for what he/she CHOOSES to bet. The fan has no overhead, no costs, no risk nothing except for what they wish to wager. It really shouldn't matter at all to the fan where the money comes from as long as the product they get is bettable.

All I heard on this site when slots were being pushed for was that the slots were going to take over the tracks, racing was going to be an afterthought, racing was going to be the second class citizen blah blah blah. OK so now we are working toward a 3% fee from the casinos. Pretty much what has taken place in NJ. They are paying us to keep from pushing for slots. Terry wants to call that extortion, thats his right, I would call it good business on the casino's part. Yet we still hear complaints that racing shouldn't get a dime, racing here sucks, things wont change blah blah blah. I still hear no suggestions for other ways to fix things. No suggestions on how to compete with other states that have added money going to purses. Its enough to make one think that some of you just like to read/hear yourselves *** and complain.

Some of you say that even with added money things will still be business as usual. Just what is business as usual anyway? Racing 5 days a week, yep that wont change. The racing dates, nope they wont change, Cheaper food? Nope I doubt it since that is leased out to others, free admission? Maybe, but is 6 dollars really going to make that much difference to everyone? Id like to know if every race had at least 8 horses or 10 horses in them would you really care if you got in for free? What is it that is done here that is so bad compared to other tracks in NY, Ca., Fl, that you all want changed so badly? Id seriously like to know except fr the short fields what you would realistically like to see changed? If its just full fields then you are going to have to pay the owners more in purse money to invest in more horses.
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« Reply #50 on: March 04, 2006, 02:38:56 AM »

I still hear no suggestions for other ways to fix things. No suggestions on how to compete with other states that have added money going to purses. Its enough to make one think that some of you just like to read/hear yourselves *** and complain.

Jim you know that's not right. There have been many suggestions made here in the past, but every single one of them YOU pooh-pooh - the harness tracks will never go along, the cheap horsemen will never go along, Hawthorne will never go along, Arlington will never go along, etc etc, always some faction of the horse racing industry itself will not go along. You have your mind made up that the only way to pull Illinois racing out of the doldrums is a miracle from on high, a golden bullet from outside all the internal strife, and you dismiss everything else out of hand. You might be right none of it is workable, but don't keep coming here saying no one has offered any alternatives, because we have.

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Some of you say that even with added money things will still be business as usual. Just what is business as usual anyway? Racing 5 days a week, yep that wont change. The racing dates, nope they wont change

Why? Too many race days is one of the problems here. Too long a season in total, and a long ho-hum season at our premier track. The year should be more like April through November, with just Memorial Day through Labor Day at Arlington. Maybe only four days a week. That's about all your customers are interested in. It would take some changes, for sure. BUT IT CAN'T HAPPEN! This faction of racing or that would never let it!

Quote
What is it that is done here that is so bad compared to other tracks in NY, Ca., Fl, that you all want changed so badly? Id seriously like to know

A season that means something would be nice for starters. Something special to look forward to. A "holding" season at Hawthorne for the local horses most of the year, like Turfway is to Kentucky, and a premier meet at Arlington for a short spell. Like how everyone locally and nationally looks forward to a Keeneland or Churchill or a Saratoga or a Del Mar or Oaklawn, because they are short, and special, compared to the rest of the fare in that state. But not here. Our "premier" meet drags on for five months and is virtually indistinguishable from the "holding" meet, except some of us have to drive further. Would it take changes in laws and so on? Sure. And it's all something horse racing could do on its own. But will it? Hell no.
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« Reply #51 on: March 04, 2006, 06:53:08 AM »

Jim C.,the one thing the fan/gamblers would want out of this is more assurance of a level playing field - and that means better testing, security, and monitoring of the game. It can be done - it woudl require money to do and I don't see why that can't be part of this.

Also, at some point people will have to realize that the otb surcharge is counterproductive, I know this is a sacred cash cow - but someone with some brains needs to straighten them out that this is a false revenue stream - they lose more business than the surcharge makes them.
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« Reply #52 on: March 04, 2006, 09:14:47 AM »

We need to bring back night racing to Arlington Park. 
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« Reply #53 on: March 04, 2006, 09:20:28 AM »

Nights at AP would be a good idea (not on weekends though) - A smaller step for AP that would make sense is to move Thursdays to the twilight program as Friday is already. Thursday is the going out night for alot of people - especially office crowds - people are too busy doing thier own thing on Fridays - so Thursday has morphed into the big night out for any office related activity, they certainlly would do alot better than they do now on Thursdays.
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« Reply #54 on: March 04, 2006, 09:28:16 AM »

We need to bring back night racing to Arlington Park.

Great, lets deregulate the racing dates. Let everyone race where they want and  when they want. Let the strongest survive. This would put at end to Balmoral.
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« Reply #55 on: March 04, 2006, 10:35:00 AM »

I think this document reflects who voted how. Note there were actually more yeas than nays, but eight of our brave respresentatives of the people, who were sent to Springfield to make decisions, simply voted "present". If one of these wussies is your district rep., write to them and tell them to get off their fat a** and at least take a stand. You didn't send them there and pay them to sit around eating bon-bons and voting "present".

List of "present" wussies:

Acevedo
Berrios
Boland
Bradley, R.
Colvin
Delgado
Lyons
Watson

My own Rep. voted no, but at least she took a stand, and now I can use her voting record to decide whether or not to vote for her in the election.

http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/votehistory/94/house/09400HB1917_03032006_028000A.pdf
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« Reply #56 on: March 04, 2006, 11:03:31 AM »

Nights at AP would be a good idea (not on weekends though) - A smaller step for AP that would make sense is to move Thursdays to the twilight program as Friday is already. Thursday is the going out night for alot of people - especially office crowds - people are too busy doing thier own thing on Fridays - so Thursday has morphed into the big night out for any office related activity, they certainlly would do alot better than they do now on Thursdays.

David,

Thursday twilight racing at AP - not a bad idea. 
Doubt it will happen but creative thinking.

However, Fridays and Sundays always will be the busiest days
at AP - I would hate to see Arlington make any changes to the
perfect synergies of those 2 days.

Anyhow, just noticed ClockerTerry now has 666 posts - makes
one wonder.......Is evil something one does or is?Huh

Good luck at HAW everyone Smiley

« Last Edit: March 04, 2006, 11:15:38 AM by robertv » Report to moderator   Logged
CLOCKERTERRY
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« Reply #57 on: March 04, 2006, 11:17:27 AM »

Just noticed ClockerTerry now has 666 posts

Just noticed robertv now has 71 posts - makes one wonder......how many were about horse racing subjects, and how many simply comments about other posters on the forum?
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« Reply #58 on: March 04, 2006, 11:24:02 AM »

I think this document reflects who voted how. Note there were actually more yeas than nays, but eight of our brave respresentatives of the people, who were sent to Springfield to make decisions, simply voted "present". If one of these wussies is your district rep., write to them and tell them to get off their fat a** and at least take a stand. You didn't send them there and pay them to sit around eating bon-bons and voting "present".

List of "present" wussies:

Acevedo
Berrios
Boland
Bradley, R.
Colvin
Delgado
Lyons
Watson

My own Rep. voted no, but at least she took a stand, and now I can use her voting record to decide whether or not to vote for her in the election.

http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/votehistory/94/house/09400HB1917_03032006_028000A.pdf


My Rep Mr. Speaker (Mike Madigan) voted yes, and I'm SURE that's it's only because I faxed him on behalf of my wife and myself (LOL).
I'm also sure the others in my district(but in Washington) that I e-mailed helped by by twisting Madigan's
non writing arm.
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« Reply #59 on: March 04, 2006, 11:31:05 AM »

As far as what we were doing to get ahead in 1995. First the world was pretty different back then as far as what people did with their free time. The internet was in its infancy. We had just passed the bill to allow full card simulcasting which if I recall we were one of the first states to do so. So the effort was there to change and compete, it just didn't work as advertised. I would also point out that it wasn't all that long ago that Illinois racing was in better shape then Ky. racing.

We attempted to compete in 1995 and lost. I can't remember ILL racing being in better shape than KY. 50s? 60s? As far as solutions, I think Terrry made an excellent point regarding a shortened, prestigeous meet at AP. Less racing the rest of the year would also help field sizes, potentially overall class of`racing and thus handle and revenue.  

Ed
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« Reply #60 on: March 04, 2006, 11:56:27 AM »

. If one of these wussies is your district rep., write to them and tell them to get off their fat a** and at least take a stand. You didn't send them there and pay them to sit around eating bon-bons and voting "present".




A present vote doesn't necessarily mean they were eating bon-bons - it is a tactical move to ensure they get what they need out of the deal - it is much easier politically to vote present and then vote yes than it is to vote no and then switch to yes. By voting present they signal they are open to discussion to those interested parties and it also lessens the potential political damage if they flip flop from a no to a yes, now they can claim they wouldn't take a stand before fully understanding/debating the issues.

Emil still wants a Southside casino - or at least trucks of  cash for the schools, so I don't think you are getting this through the Senate anyways without paying homage to that. The school cash would also end the Rev. Meek threat to run as a 3rd Party candiadate and in effect kick Blago out of office in the fall. This will all be a bigger deal before it is over with - perhaps too big that it will drown due to it's own weight - that has seemed to be the trend down there.
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« Reply #61 on: March 04, 2006, 12:07:50 PM »

This will all be a bigger deal before it is over with - perhaps too big that it will drown due to it's own weight - that has seemed to be the trend down there.

Hopefully it won't go the way of the slots issue that has been shot down for so many years. Before every session management at Hawthorne was "sure" that Springfield would vote "yes" only to be disappointed.
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« Reply #62 on: March 04, 2006, 02:02:30 PM »

As far as what we were doing to get ahead in 1995. First the world was pretty different back then as far as what people did with their free time. The internet was in its infancy. We had just passed the bill to allow full card simulcasting which if I recall we were one of the first states to do so. So the effort was there to change and compete, it just didn't work as advertised. I would also point out that it wasn't all that long ago that Illinois racing was in better shape then Ky. racing.

Thinking about the past. The same reasons that Ill racing has declined over the years still exist today. Corruption, greedy track owners, mismanagement, the Ill political environment, tracks and horsemen who think they are are owed a subsidy, no vision and no leadership. Without change, I believe the decline will continue. Slots (slot money) or no slots.

Ed
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« Reply #63 on: March 08, 2006, 04:50:53 PM »

Here is the latest I have heard on the bill. It actually did pass the House on the first vote. However, on the following confirmation vote, 2 members had "left" the floor who had voted yes. Realizing this the bill was pulled before the end of the confirmation vote. This usually happens to show that the bill has the votes to pass but that someone wants something in return for their vote. As it turns out Sen. Jones wants to have the same minority members in on the open 10th casino. In return for that he will free up the other 2 votes and will also help move it through the Senate.

The following Reps still need to be called and told to vote yes on the bill to help aid passage.

John Bradley

Voted No

618-997-9697

 

Brandon Phelps

Voted No but is on fence

618-253-4189

 

Maria Antonia Berrios “Toni”

Voted Present—could be swayed

773-235-3939

I will try and keep information flowing since there seems to be little of that happening on the T-bred side.

 

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