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Author Topic: Rachel will not win HOY because she raced on or at multiple tracks ...  (Read 2456 times)
ZENYATTA
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« on: December 09, 2009, 10:17:48 PM »

There is precedent for a horse racing mutiple times only in one state on the west coast and winning horse of the year.

ACK ACK was named HOY in 1971 and never raced outside of the state of CA.He does however show a win at the classic America distance of 1 1/4 miles on the dirt.One of 2 things RA lacks on her resume,the other being a BC WIN of any type.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2009, 10:21:04 PM by ZENYATTA » Report to moderator   Logged
APCD Dan
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« Reply #1 on: December 09, 2009, 10:21:47 PM »

There is precedent for a horse racing mutiple times only in one state on the west coast and winning horse of the year.

ACK ACK was named HOY in 1971 and never raced outside of the state of CA.He does however show a win at the classic America distance of 1 1/4 miles on the dirt.One of 2 things RA lacks on her resume,the other being a BC WIN of any type.


Ah, another new thread, keep up the good work!
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NYRA 792
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« Reply #2 on: December 09, 2009, 10:41:41 PM »

You failed to mention that Ack Ack won 7 in a row, at distance from 5.5 to 10 furlongs over fast dirt,sloppy dirt and turf.He may have even set a track record during that win streak.

Zenyatta has 5 in a row, at distances from 8.5 to 10 furlongs all on an artificial surface.
I applaud your efforts though  flag
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CLOCKERTERRY
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« Reply #3 on: December 09, 2009, 11:48:52 PM »

Ah, another new thread, keep up the good work!

Just be grateful it's a thread actually about horse racing.
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CLOCKERTERRY
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« Reply #4 on: December 09, 2009, 11:50:13 PM »

You failed to mention that Ack Ack won 7 in a row, at distance from 5.5 to 10 furlongs over fast dirt,sloppy dirt and turf.He may have even set a track record during that win streak.

Did he have a BC win? No, you say? That there's precedent for winning HOY without any BC win? Like also, for instance, Point Given?
« Last Edit: December 09, 2009, 11:53:06 PM by clockerterry » Report to moderator   Logged
mel4600
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« Reply #5 on: December 10, 2009, 06:21:10 AM »

If they had the Classic in 1971 Ack Ack would have ran in it. Point Given was one of only five horses since 1900 to win the Preakness, the Belmont, and the Travers. He suffered a career ending injury in the Travers. You can bet your bottom dollar he would have run in the Classic if he was healthy. You just don't dodge the World Series and expect to be the Champ.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2009, 07:30:45 AM by mel4600 » Report to moderator   Logged
Edwarren
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« Reply #6 on: December 10, 2009, 07:41:00 AM »

If they had the Classic in 1971 Ack Ack would have ran in it. Point Given was one of only five horses since 1900 to win the Preakness, the Belmont, and the Travers. He suffered a career ending injury in the Travers. You can bet your bottom dollar he would have run in the Classic if he was healthy. You just don't dodge the World Series and expect to be the Champ.

Bet your bottom dollar??  How'd you come up with that corny phrase?

Mel, what are the surface conditions in Pleasant Prairie?  Did you have a lot of snow?
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ZENYATTA
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« Reply #7 on: December 10, 2009, 08:06:04 AM »

You failed to mention that Ack Ack won 7 in a row, at distance from 5.5 to 10 furlongs over fast dirt,sloppy dirt and turf.He may have even set a track record during that win streak.

Zenyatta has 5 in a row, at distances from 8.5 to 10 furlongs all on an artificial surface.
I applaud your efforts though  flag


I did not forget to mentiion anything ACK ACK I merely used him as a way to refute the arguments some have made about strictly racing in your own back yard while knocking  ZENYATTA.
The last time I looked no race has lost their G1 status because it was raced on poly instead of dirt.There is no question ZENYATTA can run on dirt as evidenced by her G1 win as a 4yo.The questions are on RA,NO BC WIN,NO 1 1/4 MILE WIN OR NO POLY WIN.
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Edwarren
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« Reply #8 on: December 10, 2009, 08:18:10 AM »

I did not forget to mentiion anything ACK ACK I merely used him as a way to refute the arguments some have made about strictly racing in your own back yard while knocking  ZENYATTA.
The last time I looked no race has lost their G1 status because it was raced on poly instead of dirt.There is no question ZENYATTA can run on dirt as evidenced by her G1 win as a 4yo.The questions are on RA,NO BC WIN,NO 1 1/4 MILE WIN OR NO POLY WIN.


LOL.  Awright Steve !  Your Questions answered!  Mail $115 to Mr. Edwarren, Forecaster of the stars - to the Stars.   Po Box 334, Boise ID !  How long will I live?  Will I ever get married? WIll I be rich?  Will I be poor? 

She won @ a Classic distance one mile and 3/16 in an important American race called "the Preakness."  Remember the Preakness? Hope so because it might not be around for too longer.  Breaking a 50 year record, overshadowing the failed attempts of others.
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ZENYATTA
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« Reply #9 on: December 10, 2009, 08:45:10 AM »

LOL.  Awright Steve !  Your Questions answered!  Mail $115 to Mr. Edwarren, Forecaster of the stars - to the Stars.   Po Box 334, Boise ID !  How long will I live?  Will I ever get married? WIll I be rich?  Will I be poor?  

She won @ a Classic distance one mile and 3/16 in an important American race called "the Preakness."  Remember the Preakness? Hope so because it might not be around for too longer.  Breaking a 50 year record, overshadowing the failed attempts of others.

I have never seen or read anything that says that 1 3/16th is the "CLASSIC AMERICAN DISTANCE",perhaps you can show me where.Yes, the Preakness and Belmont and Derby have been called Classic races but it may have nothing to do with distances of race that make them a Classic.

The 2 richest races in The United States on dirt are both run at a mile and a quarter and both are open to fillies.The richest race for 3 yo fillies is at  1 1/4 miles.

Which 50 yo record did RA break ?

Some records are not as treasured as they used to be in all of sports.One thousand yds rushing was always the standard for a good season in football but now with 16 games vs 12-14 in the past it's watered down.There are more G1 races now then  their were 30 years ago and many are barely filled.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2009, 09:22:22 AM by ZENYATTA » Report to moderator   Logged
ChitownSteve75
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« Reply #10 on: December 10, 2009, 09:05:59 AM »

Yes. Another thread about these 2 great Fillies. Zenyatta is done, right? Give her HOY. RA can win it in 2010. I think a lot of people are pissed because her connections decided to NOT RUN in the Classic. That has turned me and a lot of horse players down.
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ZENYATTA THE GREAT! NOT RA!
CLOCKERTERRY
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« Reply #11 on: December 10, 2009, 09:08:43 AM »

Quote from: mel4600
If they had the Classic in 1971 Ack Ack would have ran in it. Point Given was one of only five horses since 1900 to win the Preakness, the Belmont, and the Travers. He suffered a career ending injury in the Travers. You can bet your bottom dollar he would have run in the Classic if he was healthy. You just don't dodge the World Series and expect to be the Champ.
Bet your bottom dollar??  How'd you come up with that corny phrase?

The real question is the corny logic ... when did any horse racing year end award championship officially get tied to the BC the same way the baseball championship is tied to the WS?  doh

  
« Last Edit: December 10, 2009, 09:20:50 AM by clockerterry » Report to moderator   Logged
SandyLoam
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« Reply #12 on: December 10, 2009, 10:05:55 AM »

You could lose the blues in Chicago.

GOT to look at the full campaign. It's Rachel. Pre-Breeders Cup, Zenyatta almost lost out of boredom and Mike Smith's incompetence.

Kudos for taking Zenyatta's name as your own. Pre-nup, too?
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NYRA 792
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« Reply #13 on: December 10, 2009, 10:26:16 AM »


The real question is the corny logic ... when did any horse racing year end award championship officially get tied to the BC the same way the baseball championship is tied to the WS?  doh

  

That question never seems to get answered.
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NYRA 792
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« Reply #14 on: December 10, 2009, 10:45:16 AM »

I did not forget to mentiion anything ACK ACK I merely used him as a way to refute the arguments some have made about strictly racing in your own back yard while knocking  ZENYATTA.
The last time I looked no race has lost their G1 status because it was raced on poly instead of dirt.There is no question ZENYATTA can run on dirt as evidenced by her G1 win as a 4yo.The questions are on RA,NO BC WIN,NO 1 1/4 MILE WIN OR NO POLY WIN.



Ack Ack showed his versatility by winning at sprint and route distances over different track condtions and surfaces.
Zenyatta can't say the same
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ZENYATTA
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« Reply #15 on: December 10, 2009, 02:02:03 PM »


Ack Ack showed his versatility by winning at sprint and route distances over different track condtions and surfaces.
Zenyatta can't say the same

Neither ZENYATTA or RA showed versatilty winning at sprint distances this year.Both won over different tracks and surfaces at route distances..
The original point of this thread remains,at least one horse won HOY by never leaving one state to race in another.
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NYRA 792
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« Reply #16 on: December 10, 2009, 02:41:57 PM »

I see 5 races from Zenyatta that were all on artificial surfaces.
To compare the campaigns of Ack Ack and Zenyatta is kind of silly considering the versatility that AckAck demonstrated.
While he didn't leave the state, AckAck did take on new challenges.
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ZENYATTA
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« Reply #17 on: December 10, 2009, 03:01:42 PM »

I see 5 races from Zenyatta that were all on artificial surfaces.
To compare the campaigns of Ack Ack and Zenyatta is kind of silly considering the versatility that AckAck demonstrated.
While he didn't leave the state, AckAck did take on new challenges.


I see all of RA'S races were run on the dirt.There are a very close amount of G'1'S run on both poly and dirt.
I was not comparing ACK ACK to ZENYATTA,I was merely refuting the notion that she had to leave the state to win HOY.
Both ZENAYATTA and RA took on new challenges.IMO ZENYATTA took on the biggest challenge,racing in open company in the richest race in NORTH AMERICA at a mile and a quarter.
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NYRA 792
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« Reply #18 on: December 10, 2009, 03:20:56 PM »

Leaving the state is not a prerequisite  for winning Horse of the Year nor is winning a BC race.
Comparing  the challenges RA took on compared to the ones Zenyatta  tackled is also silly.
 I'm more impressed when you win when the deck isn't stacked in your favor.

Here are years the BC  was contested on an artificial surface:
2003
2008
2009

Here are where top 3 finishers in the Classic were after 1/2 mile
2003 8th,1st,9th
2008 10th,7th,11th
2009 11th,9th,7th

Here are where the top 3 finishers were after 3/4 of a mile
2003 7th,2nd 9th
2008 9th,8th,11th
2009 11th,9th,7th

See a pattern or trend developing?  flag
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NYRA 792
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« Reply #19 on: December 10, 2009, 03:26:42 PM »

Scratch 2003  from that list  that I'm too busy trying to handicap Hollywood  duh  bang head
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CLOCKERTERRY
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« Reply #20 on: December 10, 2009, 03:55:46 PM »

Leaving the state is not a prerequisite  for winning Horse of the Year nor is winning a BC race.
Comparing  the challenges RA took on compared to the ones Zenyatta  tackled is also silly.
 I'm more impressed when you win when the deck isn't stacked in your favor.

Here are years the BC  was contested on an artificial surface:
2003
2008
2009

Here are where top 3 finishers in the Classic were after 1/2 mile
2003 8th,1st,9th
2008 10th,7th,11th
2009 11th,9th,7th

Here are where the top 3 finishers were after 3/4 of a mile
2003 7th,2nd 9th
2008 9th,8th,11th
2009 11th,9th,7th

See a pattern or trend developing?  flag

That's a point I made before. Artificial surfaces are normally biased to deep closers like Zenyatta. She would have had her a** handed to her on any dirt track, all year long. It's why they ducked all dirt races everywhere and never competed over the classic surface. Has any other HOY ever run only over poly? I don't think so.
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ZENYATTA
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« Reply #21 on: December 10, 2009, 05:17:28 PM »

Leaving the state is not a prerequisite  for winning Horse of the Year nor is winning a BC race.
Comparing  the challenges RA took on compared to the ones Zenyatta  tackled is also silly.
 I'm more impressed when you win when the deck isn't stacked in your favor.

Here are years the BC  was contested on an artificial surface:
2003
2008
2009

Here are where top 3 finishers in the Classic were after 1/2 mile
2003 8th,1st,9th
2008 10th,7th,11th
2009 11th,9th,7th

Here are where the top 3 finishers were after 3/4 of a mile
2003 7th,2nd 9th
2008 9th,8th,11th
2009 11th,9th,7th

See a pattern or trend developing?  flag


Since the inception of the BC or going back 40 years you either won a BC race or a race at a mile and a quarter or longer or you were NOT selected as HOY.
If you are more impressed when things are not stacked in your favor consider this for RA.The majority of her races were run in age restricted races against easily the worst crop in the last 10 years.The owners also passed on the richest and maybe the most prestigious race for 3 yo filles AND the richest in the US open to the world.Both races at a mile and a quarter. See a pattern or trend developing with her ?
« Last Edit: December 10, 2009, 05:28:59 PM by ZENYATTA » Report to moderator   Logged
ZENYATTA
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« Reply #22 on: December 10, 2009, 05:25:45 PM »

That's a point I made before. Artificial surfaces are normally biased to deep closers like Zenyatta. She would have had her a** handed to her on any dirt track, all year long. It's why they ducked all dirt races everywhere and never competed over the classic surface. Has any other HOY ever run only over poly? I don't think so.

Your abilty to forecast the results of a race with a positive ROI was not evident in the recent BC contest on this forum.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2009, 05:33:45 PM by ZENYATTA » Report to moderator   Logged
Horse Voice
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« Reply #23 on: December 10, 2009, 05:37:41 PM »

Your abilty to forecast the results of a race with a positive ROI was not evident in the recent BC contest on this forum.

Hmm...now I'm thinking, "Zenyatta" = Mel.
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CLOCKERTERRY
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« Reply #24 on: December 10, 2009, 05:54:54 PM »

Hmm...now I'm thinking, "Zenyatta" = Mel.

No, it can't be Mel. Only total losers take a thread totally off topic and rag on others for their picks when they didn't offer any of their own. Much as Mel and I don't get along, Mel's not that lowdown. Mel also doesn't use phrases like "Your abilty to forecast the results of a race with a positive ROI was not evident". ZENYATTA smells mightily of Niatrash.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2009, 05:56:41 PM by clockerterry » Report to moderator   Logged
Horse Voice
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« Reply #25 on: December 10, 2009, 06:18:26 PM »

Maybe you're right -- but Mel *was* taking shots at people who didn't do so good in the BC contest...now this "Zenyatta" poster is doing it, in much the same out-of-context manner Mel was doing it.
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CLOCKERTERRY
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« Reply #26 on: December 10, 2009, 10:59:54 PM »

Maybe you're right -- but Mel *was* taking shots at people who didn't do so good in the BC contest...now this "Zenyatta" poster is doing it, in much the same out-of-context manner Mel was doing it.

Who knows, or, for that matter, really cares. One thing we can be sure of is that this "Zenyatta" entity is an old poster with a new name. Dragging in the BC contest was a dead giveaway. Either way, though, I've got it covered with them both on ignore, so you don't quote 'em, I won't read 'em.
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ChitownSteve75
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« Reply #27 on: December 11, 2009, 08:31:50 AM »

That's a point I made before. Artificial surfaces are normally biased to deep closers like Zenyatta. She would have had her a** handed to her on any dirt track, all year long. It's why they ducked all dirt races everywhere and never competed over the classic surface. Has any other HOY ever run only over poly? I don't think so.

LMAO!!! She's better on dirt. See the 08 Apple Blossom. Her trainer has said so. They ran her in SoCal because that's where the BC was the last 2 years you nitwit! hahaha.  doh
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ChitownSteve75
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« Reply #28 on: December 11, 2009, 08:33:34 AM »

By the way, "Zenyatta" is not Mel and I'm not "Zenyatta" either.
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CLOCKERTERRY
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« Reply #29 on: December 11, 2009, 09:55:28 AM »

LMAO!!! She's better on dirt. See the 08 Apple Blossom. Her trainer has said so. They ran her in SoCal because that's where the BC was the last 2 years you nitwit! hahaha.  doh

They ran her in So Cal because that's where she's based and there's plenty of easy pickings in the weak F&M divisions there, you nitwit. LMAO! The BC is just one race. No reason to stay there all season. If she is better on dirt they could have sent her to some dirt races to make some real money those first four races of the season, and maybe try to improve on that pathetic 1:42.3 in her one dirt race ever, the slowest Apple Blossom of recent memory. But no, they were hiding, staying home on their home astroturf.

Here's one story that proves their *** ways:

"Zenyatta was supposed to make her 2009 debut three weeks ago in the Louisville Distaff at Churchill Downs, but Shirreffs scratched her because of muddy track conditions.

That left him and owners Jerry and Ann Moss anxious to see whether Zenyatta would preserve her undefeated streak.

“The streak is always in the back of your mind,” Shirreffs said. “The first race back you want to make it as easy as possible.”


http://blogs.phillyburbs.com/news/bcct/top-filly-zenyatta-wins-2009-debut-to-go-10-for-10/
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CLOCKERTERRY
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« Reply #30 on: December 11, 2009, 09:59:22 AM »

By the way, "Zenyatta" is not Mel and I'm not "Zenyatta" either.

You're in the clear with me, Steve. It's most likely some loser troll from the harness side like Niatrash or Buffalo Boob. Their knowledge of thoroughbred racing details is suspect. They gave that away early on with no idea whatsoever of the actual rule (singular) for HOY voting. And, their personal preoccupation with me pretty much seals it, as well.
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mel4600
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« Reply #31 on: December 12, 2009, 10:35:02 AM »

Hmm...now I'm thinking, "Zenyatta" = Mel.

LOL, I agree with everything Zenyatta says!
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mel4600
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« Reply #32 on: December 12, 2009, 10:58:56 AM »

Maybe you're right -- but Mel *was* taking shots at people who didn't do so good in the BC contest...now this "Zenyatta" poster is doing it, in much the same out-of-context manner Mel was doing it.

Come on now, you did terrible and I didn't take any shots at you! Clockerterry even beat you and I could have had a field day with that! lol
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