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Author Topic: ZENYATTA is the Horse of the Year  (Read 1281 times)
ZENYATTA
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« on: November 28, 2009, 07:29:57 PM »

I have read this forum for awhile and the Zenyatta comments in particular and had to sign up and set a couple of things straight.
Despite the comments of a certain DRF columnist on this forum 1 1/4 miles is the Classic Distance for American racing.We the fans or the people on this forum did not create that moniker.It comes from the industry and the media itself of which he is a part of.
Which stallions usally have a higher stud fee ?
He can even try and spin the facts and say their are only 2 1 1/4 mile races in 2010 on the dirt for older horses.To do so is overlooking at least  3 other races that were switched to the poly in CA.
Is it a coincidence that these races and the other races at 1 1/4 mile or longer on any surface are the richest in the country and are usually G1 races ?

Over the last 40 years of racing every horse who was named horse of the year won a 1 1/4 mile race or longer the year they won with the exception of 2,Favorite Trick and Azeri.They both however won BC races the year they won.In a tight race you simply cannot skip racing's biggest day.
Horse of the year is just that,not the poly horse or dirt or turf horse.Precedent has already been set in the past as Kotashaan won racing strictly on turf.Poly maybe hated by some but the facts remain there are an awful lot graded races being run on poly that are graded without the BC included.

To those of you who think it's RA in a runaway you are in for a big surprise.
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CLOCKERTERRY
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« Reply #1 on: November 28, 2009, 07:43:06 PM »

I have read this forum for awhile and the Zenyatta comments in particular and had to sign up and set a couple of things straight.
Despite the comments of a certain DRF columnist on this forum 1 1/4 miles is the Classic Distance for American racing.We the fans or the people on this forum did not create that moniker.It comes from the industry and the media itself of which he is a part of.

Hello Zenyatta, nice of you to stop by. Are you looking forward to your big day at Hollywood tomorrow? Will you do your dance? Are you going to Dubai like your friend Mel says?

And oh, by the way, what does 1-1/4 officially have to do with "Horse of the Year" ?

Did you know that there are only three American races that are officially "classics", and they are the Triple Crown races, all run at different distances? Since Rachel won the Preakness, she's the only "classic" winner in this discussion, not you, is she not?

Be sure to eat those hay flakes now, they've got a lot of roughage.
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Round Table
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« Reply #2 on: November 28, 2009, 07:46:24 PM »

this comment should nto have its own topic .  move it where it belongs.   zenyatta newbie,   you are in for a big surprise award-wise.
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They ought to return to Tampa and fix the mistake they made.
CLOCKERTERRY
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« Reply #3 on: November 28, 2009, 07:57:54 PM »

this comment should nto have its own topic .  move it where it belongs.   zenyatta newbie,   you are in for a big surprise award-wise.

At least it is horse racing.
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ZENYATTA
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« Reply #4 on: November 28, 2009, 09:36:50 PM »

And oh, by the way, what does 1-1/4 officially have to do with "Horse of the Year" ?

Did you know that there are only three American races that are officially "classics", and they are the Triple Crown races, all run at different distances? Since Rachel won the Preakness, she's the only "classic" winner in this discussion, not you, is she not?


In the last 40 yrs 95% of HOY winners have won a race at 1 1/4 miles or longer.The other 2 won BC races.Those are the facts,you can digest them anyway you like.

Two of  those " classics " are at a mile and a qtr or longer.The only Preakness winner in the last 40 yrs who did not win the Derby but was HOY won the Woodward when it was run at a mile and a quarter the same year.

No 3yo in the last 40 yrs has been  named HOY without winning a race at a 1 1/4 miles.

The facts  look pretty solid to me,either you win a BC race or you win a race at a mile and a quarter or longer or you are not horse of the year.
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CLOCKERTERRY
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« Reply #5 on: November 29, 2009, 12:43:10 AM »

In the last 40 yrs 95% of HOY winners have won a race at 1 1/4 miles or longer.The other 2 won BC races.Those are the facts,you can digest them anyway you like.

Two of  those " classics " are at a mile and a qtr or longer.The only Preakness winner in the last 40 yrs who did not win the Derby but was HOY won the Woodward when it was run at a mile and a quarter the same year.

No 3yo in the last 40 yrs has been  named HOY without winning a race at a 1 1/4 miles.

The facts  look pretty solid to me,either you win a BC race or you win a race at a mile and a quarter or longer or you are not horse of the year.


No, that's your OPINION.

What was the last HOY that ran exclusively on the fake surface poly, instead of the classic surface, dirt? Everyone knows poly favors closers, and when confronted by a sloppy dirt track that would favor speed even more, Zenyatta's connections ***. They knew they had a one dimensional horse.

The facts look pretty solid to me - you did not run on dirt. No HOY for you.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2009, 12:45:53 AM by clockerterry » Report to moderator   Logged
JoeMama
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« Reply #6 on: November 29, 2009, 03:32:19 AM »

A dirt surface is an altered surface. The most natural surface for a horse to run on is grass.
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threegoodlegsst
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« Reply #7 on: November 29, 2009, 07:14:01 AM »

Silly, you should have written this as if you WERE Zenyatta! Grin
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mel4600
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« Reply #8 on: November 29, 2009, 09:57:11 AM »

No, that's your OPINION.

What was the last HOY that ran exclusively on the fake surface poly, instead of the classic surface, dirt? Everyone knows poly favors closers, and when confronted by a sloppy dirt track that would favor speed even more, Zenyatta's connections ***. They knew they had a one dimensional horse.

The facts look pretty solid to me - you did not run on dirt. No HOY for you.

Actually he stated all facts! You are going with opinion.

It was Rachel that "*** out" on the bigest day of racing because she had nothing left after beating Macho Again by a head! lol
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mel4600
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« Reply #9 on: November 29, 2009, 10:02:51 AM »

In the last 40 yrs 95% of HOY winners have won a race at 1 1/4 miles or longer.The other 2 won BC races.Those are the facts,you can digest them anyway you like.



Solid point! I'm sold!
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ZENYATTA
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« Reply #10 on: November 29, 2009, 10:59:50 AM »

No, that's your OPINION.

What was the last HOY that ran exclusively on the fake surface poly, instead of the classic surface, dirt? Everyone knows poly favors closers, and when confronted by a sloppy dirt track that would favor speed even more, Zenyatta's connections ***. They knew they had a one dimensional horse.

The facts look pretty solid to me - you did not run on dirt. No HOY for you.

So according to you running on the dirt is a prerequisite for winning HOY ? Does it matter whether they win a G1 on the dirt or not just as long as they run a race over it ?

I said nothing about my connections but since you brought it up I will respond about RA'S connections.RA is a speed horse and took the easier shorter races that would favor speed no matter if it is fast or sloppy.The ALABAMA is the richest race for 3 yo fillies yet they *** out because of the distance.The Travers is a lot more prestigious than the Haskell yet they *** out and took the shorter route.Last but not least they bypassed racing biggest day because of the competition and distance and surface.Looks like her connections are the bigger ***.

Since you said a horse has to run on dirt to be HOY who are you # 2 and #3 horses ? We already know who you think #1 is.
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CLOCKERTERRY
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« Reply #11 on: November 29, 2009, 12:44:15 PM »

So according to you running on the dirt is a prerequisite for winning HOY ? Does it matter whether they win a G1 on the dirt or not just as long as they run a race over it ?

That goes without saying. Yes, run on dirt and win a G1 on it. Most every HOY winner has done it, with a couple exceptions like maybe John Henry, and Zenyatta could not carry John Henry's jock. THAT was a special horse.

Quote
I said nothing about my connections but since you brought it up I will respond about RA'S connections.RA is a speed horse and took the easier shorter races that would favor speed no matter if it is fast or sloppy.The ALABAMA is the richest race for 3 yo fillies yet they *** out because of the distance.The Travers is a lot more prestigious than the Haskell yet they *** out and took the shorter route.Last but not least they bypassed racing biggest day because of the competition and distance and surface.Looks like her connections are the bigger ***.

Well, both are ***, then. There's also that little issue of the Hollywood Gold Cup for yours.

Quote
Since you said a horse has to run on dirt to be HOY who are you # 2 and #3 horses ? We already know who you think #1 is.[/i][/b]

I have not said who is my #1, I have only said your "must have won at 1-1/4" is just your opinion, not a "fact", something arbitrary and artificial that you cling to to "prove" your point. Sort of like my "must run/win on dirt". It also does not matter who is my #2 and #3, because only one horse can win HOY.

HOY is a popularity contest. What horse impressed the voters most over the course of the year. That's all. It does not rest on things like "must have won at 1-1/4". That's not in the rules.
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ChitownSteve75
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« Reply #12 on: November 29, 2009, 02:04:26 PM »

I think I understand what the "RA" people are saying when they say "look at the body of work" but after looking at the poor competition that RA has faced, it makes this discussion more like a Zenyatta HOY winner. I truly believe that most people feel that Zenyatta would beat RA in a race because Zen is just a bigger, stronger, faster animal. However, RA should be commended on her 2009 season. I think a filly/mare winning the Classic is a bigger achievement than a filly winning the Preakness, Haskel, or Woodward. Especially after what we now know about the horses RA beat. No filly has won the Classic until Zenyatta.
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ZENYATTA THE GREAT! NOT RA!
ZENYATTA
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« Reply #13 on: November 29, 2009, 02:40:31 PM »

That goes without saying. Yes, run on dirt and win a G1 on it. Most every HOY winner has done it, with a couple exceptions like maybe John Henry, and Zenyatta could not carry John Henry's jock. THAT was a special horse.

Well, both are ***, then. There's also that little issue of the Hollywood Gold Cup for yours.

I have not said who is my #1, I have only said your "must have won at 1-1/4" is just your opinion, not a "fact", something arbitrary and artificial that you cling to to "prove" your point. Sort of like my "must run/win on dirt". It also does not matter who is my #2 and #3, because only one horse can win HOY.

HOY is a popularity contest. What horse impressed the voters most over the course of the year. That's all. It does not rest on things like "must have won at 1-1/4". That's not in the rules.

I never said she could carry Henry's jock.She will however do a better job of it than RA would.Zenyatta and John Henry both won the richest race in North America at the time and both were at a mile and a quarter something RA has failed to do either of those.
Once again if you are going to comment on what I say get the facts straight please.I said either you have a win at a mile and quarter or over or you win a BC race in the same year or you are not HOY.Over the last 40 years those 2 points cover 100% of HOY winners.
I never said it was a rule or a neccessity it is simply a fact which you cannot dispute.
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CLOCKERTERRY
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« Reply #14 on: November 29, 2009, 02:56:46 PM »

I never said she could carry Henry's jock.She will however do a better job of it than RA would.Zenyatta and John Henry both won the richest race in North America at the time and both were at a mile and a quarter something RA has failed to do either of those.
Once again if you are going to comment on what I say get the facts straight please.I said either you have a win at a mile and quarter or over or you win a BC race in the same year or you are not HOY.Over the last 40 years those 2 points cover 100% of HOY winners.
I never said it was a rule or a neccessity it is simply a fact which you cannot dispute.


Both might be a "facts", but it means nothing to this year's selection. No horse has ever been named HOY after running strictly over artificial tracks all year. That's also a fact. My comment is, it's as meaningful as yours.
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ZENYATTA
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« Reply #15 on: November 29, 2009, 03:38:24 PM »

Both might be a "facts", but it means nothing to this year's selection. No horse has ever been named HOY after running strictly over artificial tracks all year. That's also a fact. My comment is, it's as meaningful as yours.

You do not know if my facts mean nothing to this year's selections as you have no vote or the abilty to speak for all the voters.
If you choose to believe 40 years worth of facts is equal to 4 years of your fact you have that option.
It will only be a matter of time before somoeone running strictly on poly will win it despite your earlier claim that dirt is the classic surface.There were 27 G1 races on poly vs 36 on dirt in 2008 not counting BC races.
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CLOCKERTERRY
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« Reply #16 on: November 29, 2009, 04:09:08 PM »

You do not know if my facts mean nothing to this year's selections as you have no vote or the ability to speak for all the voters.

Right. And neither do you. No vote, and no ability to speak for anyone else. Just a schmuck with an opinion, like everyone else. Your "facts" have meaning only to you, and maybe some people who might believe like you. To anyone else, they're meaningless. They are not a rule written down in the selection process. That's the point.

Quote
It will only be a matter of time before somoeone running strictly on poly will win it despite your earlier claim that dirt is the classic surface.There were 27 G1 races on poly vs 36 on dirt in 2008 not counting BC races.

And, it will only be a matter of time before someone wins it in the face of your "facts". We heard all the same sort of "factual" arguments before Favorite Trick. Now of course, the "facts" that define what makes HOY have had to change a little, to include "either winning a BC race", or my favorite, "except for the 2yo".
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ZENYATTA
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« Reply #17 on: November 29, 2009, 05:59:03 PM »

Right. And neither do you. No vote, and no ability to speak for anyone else. Just a schmuck with an opinion, like everyone else. Your "facts" have meaning only to you, and maybe some people who might believe like you. To anyone else, they're meaningless. They are not a rule written down in the selection process. That's the point.

And, it will only be a matter of time before someone wins it in the face of your "facts". We heard all the same sort of "factual" arguments before Favorite Trick. Now of course, the "facts" that define what makes HOY have had to change a little, to include "either winning a BC race", or my favorite, "except for the 2yo".

Nowhere in any of my posts have I said my facts have meaning to anyone else but me.You however chose to say they mean nothing to others without being able to verify what others are thinking.
Until I see something in writing from a verifiable source you saying what is or is not a written rule has not been proven.
They are not my facts as I have not copyrighted them,they are there for all to see and use or not use anyway they see fit.
Who is the " WE "  you are now proposing to speak for when discussing the factual arguments before Favorite Trick ?

So is it common practice for you to call everyone a " SCMUCK " who has an opinion different than yours ? Facts which you could not dispute so you resort to name calling ?
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Horse Voice
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« Reply #18 on: November 29, 2009, 06:37:19 PM »

Zenyatta = NIATROSS
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CLOCKERTERRY
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« Reply #19 on: November 29, 2009, 06:56:20 PM »

Zenyatta = NIATROSS

No doubt.
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CLOCKERTERRY
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« Reply #20 on: November 29, 2009, 07:00:47 PM »

Nowhere in any of my posts have I said my facts have meaning to anyone else but me.

Sure you did.

"To those of you who think it's RA in a runaway you are in for a big surprise" was the conclusion to your initial exposition.

Quote
So is it common practice for you to call everyone a " SCMUCK " who has an opinion different than yours ?

No, I said schmuck "like everyone else". Please read.
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ZENYATTA
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« Reply #21 on: November 29, 2009, 07:36:42 PM »

Zenyatta = NIATROSS
No doubt.

Horse Voice you are wrong.

Clockerterry you are wrong again.
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ZENYATTA
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« Reply #22 on: November 29, 2009, 07:40:29 PM »

Sure you did.

"To those of you who think it's RA in a runaway you are in for a big surprise" was the conclusion to your initial exposition.


That comment has merit without any facts provided by me,you chose to put the 2 things together.
Polls on different sides of the country have had different results on who HOY will be.
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brianwspencer
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« Reply #23 on: November 29, 2009, 08:05:07 PM »

this thread is confusing me!!!!
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ZENYATTA
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« Reply #24 on: November 29, 2009, 08:09:46 PM »

this thread is confusing me!!!!

It is real simple.The vote for HOY is a real close contest with people on both sides of the vote supporting their opinions.
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