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Poll
Question: Who should be Horse of the Year? 2009
Rachel Alexandra - 27 (41.5%)
Zenyatta - 37 (56.9%)
Other* - 1 (1.5%)
Total Voters: 55

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Author Topic: WHO SHOULD BE HORSE OF THE YEAR?  (Read 34786 times)
ChitownSteve75
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« on: November 08, 2009, 10:43:43 AM »

Both horses went undefeated. Zenyatta had 4 G-1 wins including the BC Classic. Rachel Alexandra won five G-1 races including the Haskel & Woodward.

Plus/minus for Zenyatta: She only had 5 races, all in California - winning all 5; but is the only mare ever to win the Breeders Cup Classic.

Plus/minus for Rachel: She was 9-9 including 3 vs. the boys. However, she has zero wins at a 1 1/4+ and her competition was sub-par.



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Bob B
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« Reply #1 on: November 08, 2009, 11:05:46 AM »

Rachel was 8 for 8 and the competition throughout the year was not sub-par.  She beat the same number of Grade 1 horses (9) that Zenyatta beat.  Zenyatta beat 8 in one race, Rachel beat hers across a number of races.  Might want to include the Triple Crown Preakness in notable wins as well.  Rest of summary I agree with.
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ChitownSteve75
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« Reply #2 on: November 08, 2009, 11:13:43 AM »

Rachel was 8 for 8 and the competition throughout the year was not sub-par.  She beat the same number of Grade 1 horses (9) that Zenyatta beat.  Zenyatta beat 8 in one race, Rachel beat hers across a number of races.  Might want to include the Triple Crown Preakness in notable wins as well.  Rest of summary I agree with.

Zenyatta beat 13 G-1 horses this year and 11 in the Classic. I think Rachel beat sub-par horses except Summer Bird who I think is a fine animal so I take back the comment to a certain extent.
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brianwspencer
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« Reply #3 on: November 08, 2009, 11:17:11 AM »

Zenyatta beat 13 G-1 horses this year and 11 in the Classic. I think Rachel beat sub-par horses except Summer Bird who I think is a fine animal so I take back the comment to a certain extent.

She only faced 11 horses in the Classic. Regal Ransom, Awesome Gem, and Girolamo are not Grade I winners.

11-3 = 8 is where Bob was going with that.
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ChitownSteve75
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« Reply #4 on: November 08, 2009, 11:19:59 AM »

She only faced 11 horses in the Classic. Regal Ransom, Awesome Gem, and Girolamo are not Grade I winners.

11-3 = 8 is where Bob was going with that.

Looks like my math is off for the Classic but you failed to mention that Life is Sweet & Cocoa Beach also won G-1 races. You didn't clarify winners so if you do that, Zenyatta has 10.
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Bob B
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« Reply #5 on: November 08, 2009, 11:22:00 AM »

Cocoa Beach didn't win one this year is how I came up with 9 - 9.
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ChitownSteve75
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« Reply #6 on: November 08, 2009, 11:24:19 AM »

RA beat Summer Bird, MTB, and who else that have won a G-1? Are you talking about the sprinter who's name I cannot remember or Bullsbay? maybe 4 or 5. Can you name the other horses that have won a Grade-1 and we can stack them against the horses that Zenaytta has beaten.
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ChitownSteve75
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« Reply #7 on: November 08, 2009, 11:26:45 AM »

I mean, if you look at Route horses, Zenyatta has beaten the better horses. Zenyatta has beaten the better males and females this year...I think we can agree on that or do you disagree and why?
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brianwspencer
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« Reply #8 on: November 08, 2009, 11:31:18 AM »

Looks like my math is off for the Classic but you failed to mention that Life is Sweet & Cocoa Beach also won G-1 races. You didn't clarify winners so if you do that, Zenyatta has 10.

I didn't fail to mention anything.

My comment was specific in nature and covered everything it intended to cover.
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ChitownSteve75
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« Reply #9 on: November 08, 2009, 11:45:16 AM »

Better yet, lets count the TOTAL NUMBER of Grade-1 wins by all of the horses that RA & Zenyatta beat. I'm sure Zenyatta wins that by a 3-1 margin.
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brianwspencer
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« Reply #10 on: November 08, 2009, 12:01:18 PM »

Better yet, lets count the TOTAL NUMBER of Grade-1 wins by all of the horses that RA & Zenyatta beat. I'm sure Zenyatta wins that by a 3-1 margin.

This year or throughout their entire career?

If you do the latter, you'll need to factor in that Z is an older horse having faced older horses all year who have had longer careers and then divide the total number of Grade I wins by all of their competition combined by the total number of career starts made by all of their competition combined, right?

I'd be honestly interested to see how that shook out.
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ChitownSteve75
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« Reply #11 on: November 08, 2009, 12:10:41 PM »

Cocoa Beach didn't win one this year is how I came up with 9 - 9.

Bob, who were the 9 G1 2009 winners Rachel beat?
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brianwspencer
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« Reply #12 on: November 08, 2009, 12:22:42 PM »

Bob, who were the 9 G1 2009 winners Rachel beat?

Just off the top of my head, of course only listing horses who were Grade I winners at the TIME Rachel beat them, which excludes one or two more who won after facing her, I got Pinoeer oftheNile, Mine That Bird, Summer Bird, Macho Again, Bullsbay, General Quarters. So that is six...not sure if I'm missing one.

Just realized too to deduct one more from Zenyatta as well, since Colonel John doesn't count.
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Bob B
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« Reply #13 on: November 08, 2009, 01:42:39 PM »

Bob, who were the 9 G1 2009 winners Rachel beat?

Macho Again - Stephen Foster dirt
Bullsbay - Whitney dirt
Summer Bird - Belmont, Travers, JC Gold Cup - all dirt
Flashing - Test (7f) dirt
Gabby's Golden Gal - Acorn 1 mile dirt
Mine That Bird - Kentucky Derby dirt
General Quarters - Bluegrass synthetic
Pioneerofthenile - Santa Anita Derby synthetic
Take The Points - Secretariat, Jamaica - both turf

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Bob B
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« Reply #14 on: November 08, 2009, 01:58:29 PM »

For Zen's vanquished excluding common ones Summer Bird (3) and Mine That Bird (1) above...

Richard's Kid - Pacific Classic synthetic
Twice Over - Champions Stakes turf
Gio Ponti - Kilroe, Manhattan, Man o War, Million all turf
Einstein - Big Cap synthetic Woodford turf
Rip Van Winkle - Sussex QEII both turf
 
plus
Life is Sweet - Santa Marg and BC Distaff - synthetic

Since Quality Road was scratched, 2009 Grade 1 winners are 9-8 Rachel.  16 total G1 wins among them.  12 G1 wins for Rachel.  Not quite 3-1 ratio.
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The Commander
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« Reply #15 on: November 08, 2009, 02:08:39 PM »

I really think you have to give it to both. How can you disqualify either horse?
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Bob B
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« Reply #16 on: November 08, 2009, 02:16:03 PM »

How about we have a dirt Horse of the Year and a synthetic Horse of the Year?  I don't think anyone could argue Rachel would be the former and Zenyatta the latter.
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Edwarren
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« Reply #17 on: November 08, 2009, 02:26:54 PM »

IMO Zenyatta will be Horse of the Year.
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DoctorLock
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« Reply #18 on: November 08, 2009, 04:12:51 PM »

Impossible to be fair and not split the outcome. Just completely different resume's with perfect outcomes. I'm not one to sit on the fence, but I really can't seperate their respective achievements. Both had historic years and it would be foolish to have either filly settle for runner-up...particularly when neither settled for that on the race course.
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ChitownSteve75
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« Reply #19 on: November 08, 2009, 04:38:24 PM »

Impossible to be fair and not split the outcome. Just completely different resume's with perfect outcomes. I'm not one to sit on the fence, but I really can't seperate their respective achievements. Both had historic years and it would be foolish to have either filly settle for runner-up...particularly when neither settled for that on the race course.

I agree. I just think that Zenyatta gets the edge because she did something no other female has done, Win the CLASSIC. Rachel won the Preakness, done before. She won the Haskel, done before. She won the Woodward, Not sure if that has, however, Jerry Bailey did make a good point in saying the Woodward was easier than the Travers.
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« Reply #20 on: November 08, 2009, 04:47:39 PM »

I agree. I just think that Zenyatta gets the edge because she did something no other female has done, Win the CLASSIC. Rachel won the Preakness, done before. She won the Haskel, done before. She won the Woodward, Not sure if that has, however, Jerry Bailey did make a good point in saying the Woodward was easier than the Travers.

Two point and, of course, you are entitled to your opinion: 1. Rachel's connections chose the Woodward over the Travers, I believe solely to have that all-important race against older horses, should HOY be in debate; and 2. The history of the Preakness goes back 136 years compared with the 25 of the Classic. I just think it becomes senseless to split hairs when comparing two overwhelming champions.
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ChitownSteve75
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« Reply #21 on: November 08, 2009, 04:53:51 PM »

Macho Again - Stephen Foster dirt
Bullsbay - Whitney dirt
Summer Bird - Belmont, Travers, JC Gold Cup - all dirt
Flashing - Test (7f) dirt
Gabby's Golden Gal - Acorn 1 mile dirt
Mine That Bird - Kentucky Derby dirt
General Quarters - Bluegrass synthetic
Pioneerofthenile - Santa Anita Derby synthetic
Take The Points - Secretariat, Jamaica - both turf



Flashing , Gabby's Golden Gal, & Take the Points all were not G-1 Winners when Rachel ran against them.
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ChitownSteve75
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« Reply #22 on: November 08, 2009, 04:54:39 PM »

Also, no Classic distance wins for Rachel at 1 1/4 Miles or more.
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ChrissyTina
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« Reply #23 on: November 08, 2009, 08:25:53 PM »

I'm back on team Zenyatta! I've always enjoyed watching her race, more than Rachel.

Rachel makes it look so easy when she runs, I expected her to win her races. But with Zenyatta, in her last three races (especially the BC Classic), I didn't think she had a chance. Her deep closing running style makes for exciting races to watch. In everyone of her races, I think she'll never catch up in time, and she proves me wrong (and costs me money) time and time again. I've never placed a wager on Zenyatta, yet everytime I've seen her race I find myself cheering her on to win. I'm never sorry to lose some cash against such a magnificent horse as Zenyatta.

Zenyatta made history yesterday and its a race I'll never forget. Don't get me wrong, Rachel Alexandra also brought some memorable moments to horse racing this year. But she also has more years of racing ahead of her to make her marks in history. She now has to aim to be the second mare to win the BC Classic. Smiley  Zenyatta deserves one final trophy and that's HOY!
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« Reply #24 on: November 08, 2009, 10:09:19 PM »

I agree. I just think that Zenyatta gets the edge because she did something no other female has done, Win the CLASSIC. Rachel won the Preakness, done before. She won the Haskel, done before. She won the Woodward, Not sure if that has, however, Jerry Bailey did make a good point in saying the Woodward was easier than the Travers.

No other female has won the Woodward, in 50-something runnings. The Classic has been around for 24 years. No filly had won the Preakness in 90-something years.
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