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Poll
Question: Who should be Horse of the Year? 2009
Rachel Alexandra - 27 (41.5%)
Zenyatta - 37 (56.9%)
Other* - 1 (1.5%)
Total Voters: 55

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Author Topic: WHO SHOULD BE HORSE OF THE YEAR?  (Read 34302 times)
mel4600
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« Reply #650 on: January 17, 2010, 02:50:51 PM »

So long story short. I've done all you've asked, long before you even asked, and you're still being a cantankerous, belligerent jerk about it. FFS.

You continue to prove you are nothing more than a stupid little prick who posts one way on the board and another way in PM's. You are going to get your ass kicked you little ***hole. Go rip some more people off with your $49.95 worthless picks! lol
 laughing guy laughing guy laughing guy laughing guy laughing guy laughing guy laughing guy laughing guy laughing guy
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brianwspencer
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« Reply #651 on: January 17, 2010, 02:57:22 PM »

You continue to prove you are nothing more than a stupid little prick who posts one way on the board and another way in PM's. You are going to get your ass kicked you little ***hole. Go rip some more people off with your $49.95 worthless picks! lol

Didn't figure you'd have anything to say about the fact that my case was made three different times and you couldn't read it clearly enough to follow along.

Especially rich coming from a guy who's so big on letting people fight their own battles, eh, that you would jump in for Steve? What, how do you say it? Let Steve defend his own posts? Talk one way, act another, your usual M.O.

And your PM schtick is getting old. The dates on those were long ago when I was giving you the benefit of the doubt. Long before I had been around long enough to know that any semblance of an intellectual, factual conversation was definitely not what you were after. Wow, you really got me on those PMs. I was nice to you once before I had read enough to figure out that you were dishonest, and that you never act in good faith. Really got me there, for having faith in a racing fan with whom I disagreed. Shame on me! When all else fails, rip on someone's success. It certainly doesn't make me feel bad, so I hope it makes you feel really good so at least one of us is getting something out of it.
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mel4600
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« Reply #652 on: January 17, 2010, 03:04:48 PM »

I'll just repeat what I said earlier.

Zero of those horses (and that's generously even including Zenyatta) won a Grade I in their next start.

And while the race was solid and produced several next out winners, including a GIII turf stake and an allowance race (two next out winners I'd hardly hang my hat on coming out of a Grade I dirt stake to prove the strength of the field in some magical way), Kettleoneup did not win, in fact, she finished last again in her next start.

So long story short, Smith is wrong and wrong.

Find a new fact check;
Gincer Punch won a Grade 2 and two Grade 1's immediately after that race, so that makes at least 3 last out winners. So that makes 4 next out winners (including Zenyatta). Where did the others fail? Where did Kettleoneup run?
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brianwspencer
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« Reply #653 on: January 17, 2010, 03:07:19 PM »

Find a new fact check;
Gincer Punch won a Grade 2 and two Grade 1's immediately after that race, so that makes at least 3 last out winners. So that makes 4 next out winners (including Zenyatta). Where did the others fail? Where did Kettleoneup run?

Ok, when any of your info disproves anything I said, I'll get back to you.

Smith said two of them won Grade I's next out: Untrue.
Smith said every horse won the next time they ran: Also untrue.

What was that about fact checking?
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mel4600
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« Reply #654 on: January 17, 2010, 03:11:40 PM »

Especially rich coming from a guy who's so big on letting people fight their own battles, eh, that you would jump in for Steve? What, how do you say it? Let Steve defend his own posts? Talk one way, act another, your usual M.O.


Like you butting your nose in on my wagers with Marcus, eh? Look, you need to quit playing the part of a hypocrite. Steve does not have to defend anything, he posted part of an interview, and I certainly don't need to "jump" in on anything. You are either a class "A" ***hole or you are doing one hell of a job fooling me. Tell me one thing, how many people have been dumb enough to give you $49.95?  laughing guy laughing guy laughing guy laughing guy laughing guy laughing guy laughing guy laughing guy laughing guy laughing guy
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mel4600
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« Reply #655 on: January 17, 2010, 03:14:52 PM »

Ok, when any of your info disproves anything I said, I'll get back to you.

Smith said two of them won Grade I's next out: Untrue.
Smith said every horse won the next time they ran: Also untrue.

What was that about fact checking?

You said the race produced 2 next out winners, a Grade 3 and an allowance. That is an absolute lie! You are no better than Mike Smith! lol  laughing guy laughing guy laughing guy
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brianwspencer
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« Reply #656 on: January 17, 2010, 03:18:10 PM »

You said the race produced 2 next out winners, a Grade 3 and an allowance. That is an absolute lie! You are no better than Mike Smith! lol  laughing guy laughing guy laughing guy

Oh FFS you are doing this on purpose, or you legitimately cannot read.

And while the race was solid and produced several next out winners, including a GIII turf stake and an allowance race (two next out winners I'd hardly hang my hat on coming out of a Grade I dirt stake to prove the strength of the field in some magical way), Kettleoneup did not win, in fact, she finished last again in her next start.

That does not mean two next out winners. Several is more than two. "Including," means "among those several next out winners."

I'm sure this is all fun for you, but I'm done, because you're willfully twisting words, not reading them, and continuing to pick fights about other things, since you are unequivocally unable to disprove anything I've written on the topic.
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mel4600
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« Reply #657 on: January 17, 2010, 03:22:06 PM »

I'm sure this is all fun for you, but I'm done,

If I were you, I'd quit too!
 laughing guy laughing guy laughing guy laughing guy laughing guy laughing guy laughing guy laughing guy
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Marcus Hersh
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« Reply #658 on: January 17, 2010, 03:32:10 PM »

If I were you, I'd quit too!
 laughing guy laughing guy laughing guy laughing guy laughing guy laughing guy laughing guy laughing guy

mel4600 - get a life.
As amazing as it seems, you and your idiotic dialogues make people actually miss five pages worth of minutiae between Horse Voice and clockerterry.
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mel4600
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« Reply #659 on: January 17, 2010, 03:38:03 PM »

mel4600 - get a life.
As amazing as it seems, you and your idiotic dialogues make people actually miss five pages worth of minutiae between Horse Voice and clockerterry.

What they don't miss are your fairy tales.  Wink
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pamwaggy
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« Reply #660 on: January 17, 2010, 11:23:42 PM »

Mr. Hersch...

You really should show more class since you write for the DRF. 
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mel4600
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« Reply #661 on: January 18, 2010, 01:00:08 AM »

Mr. Hersch...

You really should show more class since you write for the DRF. 

Great advice from a great lady!  beer
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ChitownSteve75
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« Reply #662 on: January 18, 2010, 07:39:12 AM »

Marcus got caught. He got caught with his foot in his mouth regarding the retirement of Zenyatta and he's obviously having a very rough time with it. I cannot wait to see Zenyatta beat RA and then we may not see him on here for a while! Unless he mans up and just eats a little bit of that humble pie. That's what I'd do.
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ZENYATTA THE GREAT! NOT RA!
CLOCKERTERRY
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« Reply #663 on: January 18, 2010, 09:57:36 AM »

Mr. Hersch...

You really should show more class since you write for the DRF. 

He's here writing as a racing fan like anyone else. No one tells Mel to use a little more class because he owns his own business, or Steve because he works at XYZ insurance.
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Klink
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« Reply #664 on: January 18, 2010, 10:11:07 AM »

Marcus got caught. He got caught with his foot in his mouth regarding the retirement of Zenyatta and he's obviously having a very rough time with it. I cannot wait to see Zenyatta beat RA and then we may not see him on here for a while! Unless he mans up and just eats a little bit of that humble pie. That's what I'd do.

Serious question Steve..and Mel too...Would you rather see RA beat Z or see Z win only because RA gets injured during the race? And those are your only two options in this question. I'm curious just how far your hatred of RA extends and your obsession with Zenyatta ends.

To me, it's a great thing for the sport and much needed. I believe RA is the better horse and believe she had a better campaign in '09, obviously you guys don't and I get that. But what I don't get is the animosity and aggressiveness towards any who disagree with you. Being passionate about a horse is one thing, but this is getting ridiculous.

Sorry...enjoy these threads and dialogues 90% of the time, but just not sure if this is worth all the anger and hostility that comes with it now.
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mel4600
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« Reply #665 on: January 18, 2010, 10:41:25 AM »

Serious question Steve..and Mel too...Would you rather see RA beat Z or see Z win only because RA gets injured during the race? And those are your only two options in this question. I'm curious just how far your hatred of RA extends and your obsession with Zenyatta ends.


I always thought you were ok, but you're nothing more than a jackass to ask that question. I think Rachel is one hell of a nice filly who is extremely overrated and I love horses period. It's the disdain for Zenyatta by the Rachel fans that gets me. I'd rather see Zenyatta lose by a 100 length's to "any" horse than to see that particular horse break down. If they both bring their "A" game Rachel gets dusted. I have $500 straight up right now that says that. Are you on or do you just like to flap your jaws?
« Last Edit: January 18, 2010, 10:44:27 AM by mel4600 » Report to moderator   Logged
brianwspencer
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« Reply #666 on: January 18, 2010, 11:11:15 AM »

Marcus got caught. He got caught with his foot in his mouth regarding the retirement of Zenyatta and he's obviously having a very rough time with it. I cannot wait to see Zenyatta beat RA and then we may not see him on here for a while! Unless he mans up and just eats a little bit of that humble pie. That's what I'd do.

It's really odd how much attention you and Mel pay to whenever anyone is even a little wrong about anything....yet you blatantly lie, get called out on it, and go along on your merry way like it never happened. To add insult to injury, you guys gloat when people are wrong about their opinion -- you actually straight up LIED with facts and don't even seem to care to acknowledge it, or is it just frustrating that if I hadn't posted the truth, everyone who had read that post would actually think you were still right, and tell their friends the same thing? It's kind of like the echo chamber at Fox News lol. You say "that's what I'd do." Yet that's not at all what you've done. So, you're kind of lying. No, not kind of, actually. You're talking a big game that's not true saying you would do one thing if you put your foot in your mouth when actually you did the total opposite -- first continuing to say the lie was true, then just ignoring the truth when presented with it.

I'm not sure of proper etiquette -- am I supposed to quote you over and over and call you a "stupid prick" or a "***" or something, and then quote myself over and over saying how awesome I am for being right and use lots of little yellow guys rolling on the floor while never letting it go and using this on several different threads to disprove anything you say from now on?

I'm so confused as to how we do things around here now, since when some people are wrong, it's the end of the world (curiously, myself and Marcus), but when others are wrong, it's just let it roll off the shoulders and not pay any attention to it. I see a pattern. Not an unexpected one, by any sense. I'm just looking for some guidance on how we "classy" non-DRF people are expected to behave around here, since I"m not sure that following Mel's lead is going to get me any awards for class -- though maybe since I don't work for the DRF, I can do anything I want to and say anything and call anyone any names I want and will still be considered a class act by pam and others.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2010, 11:14:59 AM by brianwspencer » Report to moderator   Logged
mel4600
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« Reply #667 on: January 18, 2010, 01:54:15 PM »

I'm just looking for some guidance on how we "classy" non-DRF people are expected to behave around here, since I"m not sure that following Mel's lead is going to get me any awards for class -- though maybe since I don't work for the DRF, I can do anything I want to and say anything and call anyone any names I want and will still be considered a class act by pam and others.

You reap what you sow. Show me one instance where I initiated any name calling? Your problem is that you feel because Marcus works for the DRF, and you sell picks, it gives you guys some sort of edge. Don't take this the wrong way, I just don't think you guys have a grasp on this sport the way you think you do. As a matter of fact, I am astounded as to how much you both don't know. Your main problem is that you continually try to kiss Marcus's ass and butt into discussions in an arrogant partisan manner. Now , show me one instance where I started any name calling, or quit telling lies like you accuse everyone else. Lastly, quit watching MSNBC, you remind me of Rachel Maddow, ah, now I'm beginning to understand.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2010, 02:16:12 PM by mel4600 » Report to moderator   Logged
mel4600
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« Reply #668 on: January 18, 2010, 02:14:42 PM »

you actually straight up LIED with facts and don't even seem to care to acknowledge it, or is it just frustrating that if I hadn't posted the truth, everyone who had read that post would actually think you were still right, and tell their friends the same thing?


Just curious as to where he "lied"? I hope you are not referring to the Mike Smith interview, are you? If you are, give me your definition of lie and then correct yourself.
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Marcus Hersh
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« Reply #669 on: January 18, 2010, 03:43:04 PM »

Marcus got caught. He got caught with his foot in his mouth regarding the retirement of Zenyatta and he's obviously having a very rough time with it. I cannot wait to see Zenyatta beat RA and then we may not see him on here for a while! Unless he mans up and just eats a little bit of that humble pie. That's what I'd do.

You know who really got caught with foot in mouth? Zenyatta's OWNER and TRAINER! They're the ones that need to come on this message board and apologize to chitownsteve75 and mel4600. Since they said Zenyatta was retired, and the genious mel4600 knew otherwise, it's only fair that they get their butts on here and admit that they were dead wrong. But I bet it won't happen. Sissies.

In case you geniuses have a hard time deciphering sarcasm: How is it that I'm the one who's 'wrong' on this issue? Going back, mel4600 cited some still-not-yet-found 'source' before the BC about Zen racing in '10. I, citing widely read, seen, heard, etc sources, said this did not appear to be the case. If there had been no announcement of Zen retiring, and everything was speculation, and I had said Zenyatta was retired, then sure, I'd have no problem saying i was wrong. But all I have ever done is repeat what was being said over and over by no less than Zen's own connections. THEY said she was retired -- it came from them, I repeated it. So how am I the one propagating wrong-ness.

'May not see me on here for awhile?' If you only want to hear people talk who talk exactly like yourself, why not just sit at a desk scribbling notes to yourself? And, chitownsteve75, you have TOTALLY and ABSOLUTELY paid no attention to anything I've written about Zen v. RA in an actual race. You want this to be an US (the good) vs. THEM (the bad) faceoff. You want it so badly that you can't even stop to think and pay attention to what people actually say. So, let me repeat - I have never said I think RA would beat ZEN under any and all conditions. I have always expressed admiration for ZEN, and think there's a good chance she can beat RA should they meet.

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Marcus Hersh
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« Reply #670 on: January 18, 2010, 03:45:55 PM »

Mr. Hersch...

You really should show more class since you write for the DRF. 

Pamwaggy - thanks for the tip. But really, I'll try to manage on my own.
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mel4600
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« Reply #671 on: January 18, 2010, 03:52:16 PM »

You know who really got caught with foot in mouth? Zenyatta's OWNER and TRAINER! They're the ones that need to come on this message board and apologize to chitownsteve75 and mel4600. Since they said Zenyatta was retired, and the genious mel4600 knew otherwise, it's only fair that they get their butts on here and admit that they were dead wrong.

According to brianspenser, that makes you a liar! Now, I'm not calling you that for the record.
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pamwaggy
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« Reply #672 on: January 18, 2010, 04:12:26 PM »

He's here writing as a racing fan like anyone else. No one tells Mel to use a little more class because he owns his own business, or Steve because he works at XYZ insurance.

OK, then... how's this?  I expected more class from you as and educated journalist, Mr. Hersch.
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brianwspencer
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« Reply #673 on: January 18, 2010, 05:05:45 PM »

Show me one instance where I initiated any name calling?

Are you serious? This is about the first thread in history where someone called you a name first, when I called you a belligerent jerk. Let's see, just a few posts up, Klink asked you a question. Whether it was tasteless or now, you called him an "jackass." Wow, I didn't even have to go to another page to find that one. If we're going to play that game, you'd have about a 50 to 1 win ratio on striking the first blow. My temper getting the better of me yesterday being about the first time you've ever waited for someone to call you name before going on the offensive.

Just curious as to where he "lied"? I hope you are not referring to the Mike Smith interview, are you? If you are, give me your definition of lie and then correct yourself.

Well, since you're all about semantics now, for the first time ever, I guess technically Steve didn't lie. It's still intentionally dishonest to post something someone else says in a quote and present it as fact without even doing a basic fact check.

So maybe Steve is not a liar, no. Steve was intentionally dishonest, which is splitting hairs away from being a liar.

So as long as we post everything here as "______ said this one time," then we're all off the hook for whether what we say is true, factually grounded, or even remotely right?

That's really dangerous territory. But if you want to play like that, I'd be more than happy to. I can twist words and misconstrue posts with the best of them...I just don't make a habit of it, for the sake of intellectually honest conversation.

Your problem is that you feel because Marcus works for the DRF, and you sell picks, it gives you guys some sort of edge. Don't take this the wrong way, I just don't think you guys have a grasp on this sport the way you think you do. As a matter of fact, I am astounded as to how much you both don't know.

Since you're all about PMs, maybe you can ask Horse Voice what he and I talked about in private before? Maybe you can ask anyone at the track that I work with? Maybe you can ask DAK next time you see him? Maybe then you can ask Marcus what we talk about in the press box?

Maybe then you'd have even the slightest understanding of my humility in this game. Of the fact that I know I'm young, and that even following this sport with every breath I take will never undo the fact that I'm years behind. Of how often I'm amazed when I learn something new, find a new angle, get told something to look for that I had never thought of. What you fail to understand is that I'm incredibly open to learning new things in this game, and have never and will never, not once in my life, say that I know all there is to know in this game. Never once will I say I'm even close. Perhaps if instead of saying things like "you don't know anything," or "god you're such a stupid prick go sell your picks," and actually offered up something bordering on analysis, or a tip, or telling someone why they are wrong instead of belittling them for being wrong and calling them names, then you would get to see how people actually react when they learn new things or find a new angle. People may actually appreciate you for that, if your knowledge is so advanced compared to others. You don't often provoke such responses from people since you're too busy picking fights and tearing people down because of their success to have the time to offer anything that could be construed as helpful -- hence why you never see the humble, learning side of people, because you offer about 1 post for every 25 that doesn't automatically put someone on the defensive.

Think about that. As callous as you may think I am, it's all because of your tone and your words. People who have taught me things, people who have interesting back and forth conversations about this sport without resorting to the kind of ad hominem attacking you do as your M.O. understand my humility, constant amazement, and childlike wonder with things that happen in this game. You've got me pegged all wrong -- and that's your fault, not mine.

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journalstuff
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« Reply #674 on: January 18, 2010, 05:32:29 PM »

I think Zenyatta is gonna win because she has faced much tougher than Rachel has. Zenyatta beat the best in the BC Classic. Zenyatta had to earn her races this year and Rachel just won her races by a romp except for the Preakness and the Woodward. Those races to me aren't good enough. My pick is Zenyatta.
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