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Author Topic: training-lobaline  (Read 3104 times)
samstar
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« on: November 07, 2009, 10:14:22 AM »

Pennsylvania has had about 60 positives for the drug called "lobaline".  They suspended Ed Hensley and Kevin
Richard for 90 days and threw them out of the Meadows. Now the test are showing up on squeaky clean trainers that have never been suspected of using anything.  No one has any idea  of where this is coming from. 
The clean trainers are stunned when they are informed of the positives. 
Anyone have any idea where this drug might be coming from or why it is showing up. or is it more likely to be a Pa lab problem?

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noc
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« Reply #1 on: November 07, 2009, 10:23:52 AM »

Is it lobeline Huh?
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samstar
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« Reply #2 on: November 07, 2009, 10:29:02 AM »

Is it lobeline Huh?
Sorry about that, it is lobeline. 
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« Reply #3 on: November 07, 2009, 06:40:16 PM »

No personal info ... just research.  The drug does come in an injectable form and can be used intentionally in horses for "increasing deep breathing".  It also promotes the production of dopamine "the feeling good" chemical.

The plant is called the Lobelia:
Lomatium is an indigenous North American annual or biennial plant found in pastures, meadows, and cultivated fields of the eastern U.S., as far west as Arkansas and Nebraska. Related spieces are found in other parts of the country. The erect, angular stem, growing from 6 inches to 3 feet high, is hairy and contains a milky sap. The thin, light green leaves are alternate, hairy, ovate, and bluntly serrate. Numerous small, two-lipped, blue flowers grow in spike-like racemes from July to November. The fruit is a two-celled capsule filled with small, brown seeds

I suppose because the plant grows naturally and blooms thru the fall and mainly grows in the East coast where summers are cool (more research) ... could squeaky clean horses be getting this from turnouts or feed?  Its a stretch and they'd have to be eating an awful lot of it!  All I could find.

Oh, and on the PA Lab (one of THE best in the country) ... you probably know that.  Common for Labs that have really good testing programs is that once they detect something new, popular, designer-like (for instance, Lobeline used intentionally) ... they will increase their sensitivity to detect it in all testing (lower their threshholds) and all of a sudden positives will show up for things that previously slipped thru (whether a naturally occurring derivative or unnatural).  My two cents.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2009, 06:50:48 PM by Suicide_Mare » Report to moderator   Logged
samstar
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« Reply #4 on: November 07, 2009, 06:46:16 PM »

No personal info ... just research.  The drug does come in an injectable form and can be used intentionally in horses for "increasing deep breathing".  It also promotes the production of dopamine "the feeling good" chemical.

The plant is called the Lobelia:
Lomatium is an indigenous North American annual or biennial plant found in pastures, meadows, and cultivated fields of the eastern U.S., as far west as Arkansas and Nebraska. Related species are found in other parts of the country. The erect, angular stem, growing from 6 inches to 3 feet high, is hairy and contains a milky sap. The thin, light green leaves are alternate, hairy, ovate, and bluntly serrate. Numerous small, two-lipped, blue flowers grow in spike-like racemes from July to November. The fruit is a two-celled capsule filled with small, brown seeds

I suppose because the plant grows naturally and blooms thru the fall and mainly grows in the East coast where summers are cool (more research) ... could squeaky clean horses be getting this from turnouts or feed?  Its a stretch and they'd have to be eating an awful lot of it!  All I could find.


When I say "squeaky clean", I mean horsemen who no one would ever doubt.  I wonder if it is an ingredient in some leg brace?
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LittleOnesAttack
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« Reply #5 on: November 07, 2009, 07:07:55 PM »

Tell them to ask the vet what was in their prerace. bang head bang head bang head
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Suicide_Mare
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« Reply #6 on: November 07, 2009, 07:08:28 PM »

When I say "squeaky clean", I mean horsemen who no one would ever doubt.  I wonder if it is an ingredient in some leg brace?
It is possible, but anything applied topically and absorbed thru the skin takes an awful lot to register in a drug test (but then again, if a lab is looking for something specific, they'll find it in trace amounts).  You are correct that it is often used for muscle-related treatments too (see below).  Someone better be reading labels!

In addition to respiration .... many locations point out lobelia's impact on muscle-related concerns. The herb is commonly used as a muscle relaxant. The same properties that work for assisting in breathing seem to come into play to help with chronic or even acute muscle spasms, strains and pain.  
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Mel from Moline
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« Reply #7 on: November 07, 2009, 11:19:49 PM »

I do NOT know this drug by this name, but I would guess it's a part of a bleeder/breather shot that many people give the day before. That's just a guess, but if so many have it, it's becuase all the vets knew it NOT to test and now all the sudden it is. While it's just a guess, I'll bet if someone can find out thats probably what this is.
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« Reply #8 on: November 08, 2009, 05:30:47 PM »

Tell them to ask the vet what was in their prerace. bang head bang head bang head

Several of them don't pr-race. The vets are puzzled. One or two   had second positives after being informed about the first.  Pretty hard to avoid if you don't know where it is coming from.
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« Reply #9 on: November 08, 2009, 11:16:40 PM »

Lobeline: crystalline alkaloid C22H27NO2 that is obtained from Indian tobacco and is used chiefly as a respiratory stimulant and as a smoking deterrent. Someone said it was in Sore No More, which i use and damn if it isn't. Lobelia (Lobelia inflata): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lobelia_inflata
I would doubt there's enough in here to test or that many people use Sore No More but it is interesting. I would suspect a pre race myself but i'm skeptical by nature. Like when they were using sheep wormer to pre race and got caught.
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« Reply #10 on: November 10, 2009, 09:38:02 AM »

Pa seems to be dragging their feet in enforcing 60 positives.  I wonder if they will just go away.
If they can't find the source, and don't really suspect cheating, I suppose that is what should happen.
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« Reply #11 on: November 11, 2009, 10:12:26 PM »

http://www.paulickreport.com/blog/tag/lobeline/
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« Reply #12 on: November 13, 2009, 06:48:53 AM »

We had the wagons circled on that issue -- it'll be interesting to see how that plays out.
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jrstark
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« Reply #13 on: November 23, 2009, 09:04:10 PM »

Charges are going to be dismissed according to this:
http://www.paulickreport.com/blog/mclaughlin-horses-allegedly-test-for-banned-substance-in-ky/
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« Reply #14 on: November 23, 2009, 09:43:26 PM »

I wonder what they will do with Kevin Richard and Ed Hensley.  The Meadows kicked them out for 3  months.  Kevin Richard brought a sample of the plant to his hearing and thought he was going to get off but they completely ignored the facts.  Kevin Richard never had  much of a career but they sure screwed up Ed Hensley who was doing very well. I thought that the Meadows lost a asset when Ed moved on.
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« Reply #15 on: December 03, 2009, 01:45:43 PM »

According to the MSOA the charges have been dismissed.  Still working on Kevin and Eds problem.
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« Reply #16 on: December 03, 2009, 08:24:10 PM »

Kevin and Ed did not send out there splits, the others did.  Theirs were back in april. No more stating showing up until mid summer. If  you don't send out your splits its the same as refusing a search or blood test. Should have sent out the splits.
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« Reply #17 on: December 04, 2009, 07:41:47 PM »

Ed and Kevin have been restored to good standing, their penalities rescinded and the fines are  going to be returned.  the original race placement will stand and the owners will getting their purse checks.  Congragulations to the Pa Harness Racing Commission for quickly righting a wrong. 
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« Reply #18 on: December 05, 2009, 08:08:16 AM »

Ed and Kevin have been restored to good standing, their penalities rescinded and the fines are  going to be returned.  the original race placement will stand and the owners will getting their purse checks.  Congragulations to the Pa Harness Racing Commission for quickly righting a wrong. 

That vindication doesn't happen very often ... especially the "quickly" part.  Good for them even though I'm sure they suffered hardship over the whole ordeal.  Racing Commission=1000, Horsemen=2.  Congrats to Ed and Kevin anyway for standing up for what is right.
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