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Author Topic: Zenyatta to the Classic  (Read 4121 times)
mel4600
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« Reply #50 on: November 02, 2009, 08:03:21 PM »

Among John Henry's dirt races: 6/5/79 --- Allowance race at Mon, 1st by 14 lengths
                                        1/20/80 --- Sam Marcos Hcp. (G-3) SA  won "handily"
                                       10/4/80 --- Jockey Club Gold Cup (G-1) 2nd behind Temperance Hill                   3/8/81 --- Santa Anita Hcp. (G-1) winner
                                       10/10/81 --- Jockey Club Gold Cup (G-1) winner
                                        3/7/82 --- Santa Anita Hcp. (G-1) beaten by a nose by Perrault, placed first for being impreded
                                       6/24/84 --- Hollywood Gold Cup (G-1) second behind Desert Wine

Mel, you've really got to learn how to read The Daily Racing Form!
 beer

Earl,

Temperence Hill, Perrault, Desert Wine? You run 2nd to these horses and you think that is impressive? Allowance race? LOL... They wouldn't hit the board in the 2004 Classic!  beer
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Earl Sande
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« Reply #51 on: November 02, 2009, 08:14:30 PM »

Earl,

Temperence Hill, Perrault, Desert Wine? You run 2nd to these horses and you think that is impressive? Allowance race? LOL... They wouldn't hit the board in the 2004 Classic!  beer

Temperance won: Arkansas Derby (G-1), Belmont (G-1), Travers (G-1), Jockey Club Gold Cup (G-1), Super Derby ($500K), Oalawn Handicap (G-2) and the Suburban (G-1). Why that's even more impressive than Ghostzapper!

Perrault won two Grade-2s in France before heading to the U.S., where he won five of eight starts including the Arcadia Hcp. (G-3, turf), the Santa Anita Hcp. (G-1, dirt), the San Luis Rey (G-1, turf), the Hollywood Gold Cup (G-1, dirt) and the Arlington Million.
That's even more impressive than Roses In May!


Your ignorance is really starting to show, guess you must get your racing information from Fox News!
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Earl Sande
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« Reply #52 on: November 02, 2009, 08:19:06 PM »

Had to look up Desert Wine --- 25 starts, 8 wins, 8 seconds, 2nd Kentucky Derby (G-1) and Preakness (G-1), first Santa Anita Hcp (G-1), etc., earnings $1.6 million --- why that's more impressive than Dynever and Birdstone combined!
I rest my case.
 beer
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ChitownSteve75
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« Reply #53 on: November 02, 2009, 08:20:56 PM »

Earl, the more you post, the more idiotic you start to sound regarding this particular conversation/thread. Give it up pal.
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ZENYATTA THE GREAT! NOT RA!
mel4600
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« Reply #54 on: November 02, 2009, 08:26:59 PM »

Had to look up Desert Wine --- 25 starts, 8 wins, 8 seconds, 2nd Kentucky Derby (G-1) and Preakness (G-1), first Santa Anita Hcp (G-1), etc., earnings $1.6 million --- why that's more impressive than Dynever and Birdstone combined!
I rest my case.
 beer

WOW! You better look again! You mean Azeri has more grade 1's than Desert Wine, Perrault, and Temperance Hill won. Why don't you post the pp's or race record? In any event you failed to come even close to any single field in depth as the 2004 Classic.
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mel4600
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« Reply #55 on: November 02, 2009, 08:54:05 PM »

Earl,

Roses in May had 13 starts 8 wins and 4 seconds, with earning of $5,490,187 before retiring to stud. I rest my case!  beer
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brianwspencer
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« Reply #56 on: November 02, 2009, 11:57:35 PM »

Brian,

You have been dead on the money this entire topic. I think the main question the others should answer is, did Curlin run against a more impressive field than Ghostzapper? After all, what we are talking about is the overall quality of the field.

Ha, good to know you agree with me on SOMETHING at least, right?  beer

This one seems pretty cut and dry to me. Questioning the depth of the 2004 Classic field just seems like an exercise in futility. And understandably so, since the person doing so has yet to post any substantive criticism of it besides "seattle slew would beat them," and "who were they beating, each other?"

The answers to which are: who cares, and it's clear that the three posts I've made regarding the latter questions have gone entirely ignored, since the facts speak for themselves.
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ChitownSteve75
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« Reply #57 on: November 03, 2009, 12:29:09 AM »

WOW! You better look again! You mean Azeri has more grade 1's than Desert Wine, Perrault, and Temperance Hill won. Why don't you post the pp's or race record? In any event you failed to come even close to any single field in depth as the 2004 Classic.

Like I have said before, only the 1998 Classic garners the same merit and respect of the 2004 edition.
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ZENYATTA THE GREAT! NOT RA!
mel4600
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« Reply #58 on: November 03, 2009, 01:08:02 AM »

Ha, good to know you agree with me on SOMETHING at least, right?  beer

This one seems pretty cut and dry to me. Questioning the depth of the 2004 Classic field just seems like an exercise in futility. And understandably so, since the person doing so has yet to post any substantive criticism of it besides "seattle slew would beat them," and "who were they beating, each other?"

The answers to which are: who cares, and it's clear that the three posts I've made regarding the latter questions have gone entirely ignored, since the facts speak for themselves.

Actually, I agree with you a lot more than you think. I just like to play Devil's Advocate sometime. You did a beautiful job with your posts on this thread. I enjoyed reading them while you cut the opposition to ribbons!  beer

I bought the DRF pre-entry package for the Breeders Cup and it has a ton of info on all the past classics. Ghostzapper received the highest Beyer fig of 124 along with Sunday Silence in 1989. You were also correct when you said Roses in May was a horse to reckon with and would have won most other classics with the performance he gave that day.
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journalstuff
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« Reply #59 on: November 03, 2009, 10:14:15 AM »

Am sticking with my boy Einstein.
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Fiddler
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« Reply #60 on: November 03, 2009, 11:24:40 AM »

Like I have said before, only the 1998 Classic garners the same merit and respect of the 2004 edition.

I came into this thread a little late, and while agreeing the 2004 field was deep; for my money, the '98 field was slightly better.  Skip Away, Silver Charm, Victory Gallop, Swain, Gentlemen, Coronado's Quest, Touch Gold and the winner Awesome Again.  I was fortunate enough to be at CD that day in one of the apron boxes right next to the track, just before the wire.....I thought Swain was going to run into our box, he came down the stretch so wide.  It was a great field!
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Earl Sande
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« Reply #61 on: November 03, 2009, 11:53:52 AM »

Earl,

Roses in May had 13 starts 8 wins and 4 seconds, with earning of $5,490,187 before retiring to stud. I rest my case!  beer

Do you still think John Henry was a grass horse?
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ChitownSteve75
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« Reply #62 on: November 03, 2009, 11:56:22 AM »

I came into this thread a little late, and while agreeing the 2004 field was deep; for my money, the '98 field was slightly better.  Skip Away, Silver Charm, Victory Gallop, Swain, Gentlemen, Coronado's Quest, Touch Gold and the winner Awesome Again.  I was fortunate enough to be at CD that day in one of the apron boxes right next to the track, just before the wire.....I thought Swain was going to run into our box, he came down the stretch so wide.  It was a great field!

I love that race and that field. The '98 edition was epic and the '04 race had the same star quality. It's a toss up. They're WAY BETTER than the 2000 race.
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ZENYATTA THE GREAT! NOT RA!
Earl Sande
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« Reply #63 on: November 03, 2009, 11:57:48 AM »

Earl, the more you post, the more idiotic you start to sound regarding this particular conversation/thread. Give it up pal.

Continue to ignore the facts, I don't care.
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mel4600
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« Reply #64 on: November 03, 2009, 11:58:39 AM »

Do you still think John Henry was a grass horse?

Yes. What will he be remembered for? His dirt racing?

Its nice to see you changing directions since you looked ridiculous with your comments about the 2004 field. Even if you thought another year was a better field, you make a fool out yourself trying to trivialize the 2004 field.
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Earl Sande
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« Reply #65 on: November 03, 2009, 11:59:03 AM »

Ha, good to know you agree with me on SOMETHING at least, right?  beer

This one seems pretty cut and dry to me. Questioning the depth of the 2004 Classic field just seems like an exercise in futility. And understandably so, since the person doing so has yet to post any substantive criticism of it besides "seattle slew would beat them," and "who were they beating, each other?"

The answers to which are: who cares, and it's clear that the three posts I've made regarding the latter questions have gone entirely ignored, since the facts speak for themselves.

Brian, you're a genius who is always right.
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brianwspencer
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« Reply #66 on: November 03, 2009, 12:03:31 PM »

Brian, you're a genius who is always right.

So, still nothing at all about the facts from the 2004 Classic, the field, or who they'd beaten?

I suppose John Henry, Seattle Slew, and your sarcastic comments about my racing knowledge are more relevant?

Seems so, considering that you just told ChiTown that he's "ignoring the facts," when you're still the only one who hasn't addressed them.

Total non-sequiters in every response so far, and now you're veering into ad hominem instead.

"Hey this 2009 Classic is looking pretty good, right?"

"NO, SECRETARIAT WOULD BEAT THEM."

Again, you're not saying anything that has one iota to do with the 2004 Classic field, since there's no way around the depth of it if you actually care to dig into it...which you don't.
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mel4600
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« Reply #67 on: November 03, 2009, 12:16:34 PM »

Brian,

You put him in a corner and he can't come up with an intelligent answer to save face.
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DoctorLock
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« Reply #68 on: November 03, 2009, 05:54:36 PM »

just to stir it up a little....if the field was so remarkable (and again, every Classic field is loaded with talent), you'd expect the favorite in such a large and talented field to be in the neighborhood of, say, 4-1/9-2, but Ghostzapper was 5-2 or thereabouts. Not sure the betting that day validated the rest of the competition.
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mel4600
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« Reply #69 on: November 03, 2009, 06:13:17 PM »

just to stir it up a little....if the field was so remarkable (and again, every Classic field is loaded with talent), you'd expect the favorite in such a large and talented field to be in the neighborhood of, say, 4-1/9-2, but Ghostzapper was 5-2 or thereabouts. Not sure the betting that day validated the rest of the competition.

You are mixing up a talented field vs. a even field. By the way, Ghostzapper was co-favorite with Pleasantly Perfect at 5-2.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2009, 07:30:36 PM by mel4600 » Report to moderator   Logged
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