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Author Topic: Zenyatta AGAIN!  (Read 5098 times)
glahn
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« Reply #25 on: October 12, 2009, 02:28:35 PM »

If she gets much quicker splits at a mile and a quarter, it could lead to vast improvement. And to those knocking her via Euros based on last year's BC Classic results plus the Goodwood result from Saturday -- not so fast. Unlike Curlin, Zenyatta can run on synthetic. And I would venture to say she is a damn site better than last year's top US Classic finisher, Tiago.

I was basing it on the fact that European horses are generally better than U.S. horses if given a level playing field. All my selections last year in every race possible were European, so this has nothing to do with the results of last year (except insofar as it validated what I had supposed).

I would venture to say that Sea the Stars and Mastercraftsman are a damn site better than Raven's Pass and Henrythenavigator. AND, I would venture to say these two, and even Rip Van Winkle, are a damn site better than Gitano Hernando.
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glahn
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« Reply #26 on: October 12, 2009, 02:31:52 PM »

LOL...this is a joke! Her ears were forward and he never even asked her for her run! So this is how you handicap?

Ignoring my previous post, eh Mel? I'll quote it for you:

"Whether or not Zenyatta _could_ have run faster, though, is up for debate."

All I was saying was that the final time was slow. Other elements of handicapping weren't even brought up, and I even made an attempt to acknowledge this. Please read my posts prior to responding with denigrating remarks.

Re: the bet, we could get creative, as there are many possibilities: specific Euro horse to win or Zenyatta to win; all euro horses to win against Zenyatta to win, with odds; head-to-head, specific euro vs. Zenyatta, etc. I wonder if they'd do these sort of bets in Vegas.
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glahn
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« Reply #27 on: October 12, 2009, 03:17:40 PM »

Look at any horse you want running today and show me one that has run a faster finish than her best. I'll be waiting.

The following day, Mine That Bird ran his final eighth in 11 seconds flat. Zenyatta's final sixteenth was 6 and 1. Double this and you get 12 and 2. Give her the benefit of the doubt and say she was at her fastest just after the wire, and some simple mathematics of acceleration and velocity means she _might_ have run 11 and 4, and I think that's being generous.

Good enough for you?

I will say that she closes very well. But there are plenty of grass horses (mostly Europeans) who close much more quickly, and even a handful of dirt horses.
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mel4600
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« Reply #28 on: October 12, 2009, 06:35:35 PM »

I will say that she closes very well. But there are plenty of grass horses (mostly Europeans) who close much more quickly, and even a handful of dirt horses.

Like I said, show me one that has run a final 1/16 faster than her best on dirt or poly. Since there are several it should be no problem for you.
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glahn
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« Reply #29 on: October 12, 2009, 06:56:37 PM »

Like I said, show me one that has run a final 1/16 faster than her best on dirt or poly. Since there are several it should be no problem for you.

Uh, I just showed you that Mine That Bird ran his last eight in 11 flat. Granted, I don't have data to see what his final sixteenth was, but if you split 11 into two, you get 5 and 2.5 fifths, which is much faster than 6 and 1. Take it however you want, but you're being deliberately obtuse, now, Mel. One of the reasons why I took a sabbatical from this forum.
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mel4600
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« Reply #30 on: October 12, 2009, 09:09:23 PM »

Uh, I just showed you that Mine That Bird ran his last eight in 11 flat. Granted, I don't have data to see what his final sixteenth was, but if you split 11 into two, you get 5 and 2.5 fifths, which is much faster than 6 and 1. Take it however you want, but you're being deliberately obtuse, now, Mel. One of the reasons why I took a sabbatical from this forum.

You need to take another sabbatical if you're going to continue to be a little whiner. 6 and 1 is not her fastest time. I suggest you go do some more research and read my statement more carefully so you can comprehend what I am saying.
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Marcus Hersh
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« Reply #31 on: October 12, 2009, 09:58:46 PM »

I was basing it on the fact that European horses are generally better than U.S. horses if given a level playing field.

I'll agree with that.

I would venture to say that Sea the Stars and Mastercraftsman are a damn site better than Raven's Pass and Henrythenavigator.

Sea the Stars is unlikely to come, and uncertain going 10fs on synthetic. What evidence is there that Mastercrafts will be better on synthetic at 10fs than the two last year? His having been beaten down by the living legend, Sea the Stars?

AND, I would venture to say these two, and even Rip Van Winkle, are a damn site better than Gitano Hernando.

Only a fool would argue against that.
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Marcus Hersh
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« Reply #32 on: October 12, 2009, 10:02:25 PM »

You need to take another sabbatical if you're going to continue to be a little whiner. 6 and 1 is not her fastest time. I suggest you go do some more research and read my statement more carefully so you can comprehend what I am saying.

You're right - he didn't read carefully enough. But your approach is just so combative. After you have yelled everyone else off the stage and are standing there all alone, might not you eventually say to yourself: "Whoa - what was the fun of this, after all?"
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glahn
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« Reply #33 on: October 13, 2009, 05:27:05 AM »

What is her fastest? I don't have PPs handy.
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ChitownSteve75
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« Reply #34 on: October 13, 2009, 07:08:53 AM »

lol. Zenyatta would drill MTB and I'd bet Glahn any amount he would want. Blank Check!
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ZENYATTA THE GREAT! NOT RA!
mel4600
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« Reply #35 on: October 13, 2009, 07:12:59 AM »

You're right - he didn't read carefully enough. But your approach is just so combative. After you have yelled everyone else off the stage and are standing there all alone, might not you eventually say to yourself: "Whoa - what was the fun of this, after all?"

I'm not yelling at all, I'm debating the subject of horses, its just like going to the window and betting a different horse. The only difference is, my horse never lost. Believe me, its nothing personal. What you have to remember is that your opinion is just that and should not be considered gospel just because you work for the DRF. Now, if you feel that is yelling you off the stage then you need to get some thicker skin. I didn't take it personal when you were mocking me earlier with the full cup blinker comment while misquoting me. I just came back with a quote you didn't make either just to make my point. No harm done Marcus they are just little jabs in fun.
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mel4600
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« Reply #36 on: October 13, 2009, 07:27:32 AM »

I want everyone to go back in history to find some great last to first closers. How many of them have ever won 13 in a row at any time let alone being unbeaten? Usually last to first closers lose several times because of the trip they take or the pace of the race. Zenyatta has answered the bell each and every time which is extraordinary in itself. Let her be beat before you knock her just because her connections keep her in California. Rachel's connections refuse to run her in California in the biggest race of the year yet I don't see everyone making the same comment towards them.
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Earl Sande
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« Reply #37 on: October 13, 2009, 08:13:52 AM »

Zenyatta has answered the bell each and every time which is extraordinary in itself.

What's really extraordinary is how seldom and in how few places her bell tolls.
I'll be impressed when she breaks Peppers Pride's record.
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mel4600
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« Reply #38 on: October 13, 2009, 08:27:15 AM »

What's really extraordinary is how seldom and in how few places her bell tolls.
I'll be impressed when she breaks Peppers Pride's record.


Once again you have no answer! lol

Welcome to Fairmount!
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Marcus Hersh
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« Reply #39 on: October 13, 2009, 09:37:44 AM »

I'm not yelling at all, I'm debating the subject of horses, its just like going to the window and betting a different horse. The only difference is, my horse never lost. Believe me, its nothing personal. What you have to remember is that your opinion is just that and should not be considered gospel just because you work for the DRF. Now, if you feel that is yelling you off the stage then you need to get some thicker skin. I didn't take it personal when you were mocking me earlier with the full cup blinker comment while misquoting me. I just came back with a quote you didn't make either just to make my point. No harm done Marcus they are just little jabs in fun.

Little jabs in fun? mel4600, you name-call, end most of your sentences with exclamation points, and constantly say you are 'laughing out loud' at people. It's not 'debating' to tell someone they're a whiner and they should stop posting again. It's not 'a little jab' to belittle people and mock their opinions. At least own up to your behavior. You're like the schoolyard bully who smacks someone in the face and makes them cry, then tells the adult, 'Nah, me an him were just playing.'

I wasn't mocking you earlier. But after reading your posts on Zenyatta for several months now, you have made clear you will give no ground to anyone who expresses any skepticism. And when skepticism is expressed, you dig in your heels and exalt her with hyperbole. To me, that's using blinkers. And to say someone has blinkers on is not calling them names.

As for me, I hardly think my word is gospel, pal. And I already have a platform to write things down about horseracing -- albeit not screamed-out opinions under an anonymous screen name. But your manner of expression surely drowns out other voices on this forum who don't have such a platform, and I think that's too bad.
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jrstark
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« Reply #40 on: October 13, 2009, 09:40:21 AM »

I want everyone to go back in history to find some great last to first closers. How many of them have ever won 13 in a row at any time let alone being unbeaten? Usually last to first closers lose several times because of the trip they take or the pace of the race. Zenyatta has answered the bell each and every time which is extraordinary in itself.

Absolutely.  Has she ever come up the rail?  Every race I've watched she closes from the outside, giving up a ton of ground.

Deep closers are totally at the mercy of their trip/the pace.  But that doesn't seem to matter to Zenyatta.
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DoctorLock
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« Reply #41 on: October 13, 2009, 09:50:32 AM »

There is no questioning Zenyatta's talent. Some just get the job done, giving only as much as needed. Two-year-old out on the West coast who seems to exhibit that trait, albeit, with just a few races under his belt (Lookin at Lucky). The great Standardbred, Cam Fella, same thing. He couldn't blow up the teletimer, but he won practically every time. The way Sherriff's been plotting Zenyatta's course, we may never know just how good she is, but if she does, indeed, run in the Classic, nothing would surprise me. I think it's great fodder for debate...until we see.
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mel4600
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« Reply #42 on: October 13, 2009, 10:07:03 AM »


As for me, I hardly think my word is gospel, pal. And I already have a platform to write things down about horseracing -- albeit not screamed-out opinions under an anonymous screen name. But your manner of expression surely drowns out other voices on this forum who don't have such a platform, and I think that's too bad.

Well pal, just about everyone here knows who I am as I do most others. Check your box and you will have my real name and number so you won't be left out. I stand behind what I say. Your definition of "!" is totally off base! I always thought screaming was posting in all caps, is it not? Your platform gives you no advantage over anyone else and I will respond to you the same way I would anyone else who I feel is off base. There are plenty of posters who I have had vigorous debates with that I have total respect for while those that cry and complain don't. I have not bullied anyone on this thread except respond in my own manner.
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DoctorLock
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« Reply #43 on: October 13, 2009, 10:13:48 AM »

 chillpill
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mel4600
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« Reply #44 on: October 13, 2009, 10:16:45 AM »

Absolutely.  Has she ever come up the rail?  Every race I've watched she closes from the outside, giving up a ton of ground.

Deep closers are totally at the mercy of their trip/the pace.  But that doesn't seem to matter to Zenyatta.


Thank you! That has always been my point. There are lots of things that can go against you in a race and those concerns are compounded when you always go from last to first. The amazing thing is she has remained perfect in spite of some questionable rides by Mike Smith.
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ABBEY
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« Reply #45 on: October 13, 2009, 10:38:12 AM »

Thank you! That has always been my point. There are lots of things that can go against you in a race and those concerns are compounded when you always go from last to first. The amazing thing is she has remained perfect in spite of some questionable rides by Mike Smith.
HER RACE THE OTHER DAY WAS JUST A WORK, MIKE SMITH KNEW IT TOO. SHE IS PERFECT, FROM LAST TO FIRST.
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mel4600
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« Reply #46 on: October 13, 2009, 10:57:30 AM »

HER RACE THE OTHER DAY WAS JUST A WORK, MIKE SMITH KNEW IT TOO. SHE IS PERFECT, FROM LAST TO FIRST.

 thumbs up thumbs up thumbs up
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pamwaggy
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« Reply #47 on: October 13, 2009, 01:28:21 PM »

I agree.  She is a beautiful super freak.   How could anyone find anything bad to say about such a horse?!
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mel4600
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« Reply #48 on: October 13, 2009, 04:04:50 PM »

I agree.  She is a beautiful super freak.   How could anyone find anything bad to say about such a horse?!

 thumbs up thumbs up thumbs up
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glahn
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« Reply #49 on: October 13, 2009, 04:20:34 PM »

lol. Zenyatta would drill MTB and I'd bet Glahn any amount he would want. Blank Check!

That's not the issue, and I wouldn't take that bet anyway.
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