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Author Topic: Zenyatta AGAIN!  (Read 5009 times)
threegoodlegsst
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« on: October 10, 2009, 06:54:13 PM »

Have to say she makes me feel like crying every time I see her run. What a being she is.  Remember seeing the BC at Churchill when Personal Ensign beat Winning Colors and Alysheba beat Ferdinand and all I could think as we watched them being ridden to the winner's circle was 'what must it feel like to be on a creature like that?'  What POWER!
She ran with ease.
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mel4600
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« Reply #1 on: October 10, 2009, 07:59:36 PM »

Have to say she makes me feel like crying every time I see her run. What a being she is.  Remember seeing the BC at Churchill when Personal Ensign beat Winning Colors and Alysheba beat Ferdinand and all I could think as we watched them being ridden to the winner's circle was 'what must it feel like to be on a creature like that?'  What POWER!
She ran with ease.


You are right, it was nothing more than a breeze! What a specimen she is!
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threegoodlegsst
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« Reply #2 on: October 10, 2009, 08:03:12 PM »

I've asked the same question with Rachel....WHAT IS SHE CAPABLE OF?
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ChitownSteve75
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« Reply #3 on: October 10, 2009, 08:49:58 PM »

I'd love to see the connections go for the Classic. This years bunch is beatable. This is not the group Azeri ran into during the 2004 Classic.
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ZENYATTA THE GREAT! NOT RA!
pamwaggy
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« Reply #4 on: October 10, 2009, 10:56:37 PM »

What a beautiful horse.  What a pleasure to watch her run.   
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glahn
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« Reply #5 on: October 11, 2009, 09:42:30 AM »

I'd love to see the connections go for the Classic. This years bunch is beatable. This is not the group Azeri ran into during the 2004 Classic.

She won't beat Mastercraftsman and Rip Van Winkle.
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CLOCKERbiggestal
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« Reply #6 on: October 11, 2009, 11:17:34 AM »

She won't beat Mastercraftsman and Rip Van Winkle.

Heck she couldn't even beat Gitano Hernado right now at 10F. The classic ain't the gimme that everyone is portraying it as.

 clocker biggestal
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Kickers beat one-pacers almost every time.
mel4600
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« Reply #7 on: October 11, 2009, 04:00:20 PM »

She won't beat Mastercraftsman and Rip Van Winkle.

I believe you!  crossedfingers

If they run against each other I'll make a side bet with you.
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mel4600
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« Reply #8 on: October 11, 2009, 04:01:18 PM »

Heck she couldn't even beat Gitano Hernado right now at 10F. The classic ain't the gimme that everyone is portraying it as.

 clocker biggestal

What are you smoking?  screwy
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Earl Sande
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« Reply #9 on: October 11, 2009, 06:23:36 PM »

Ho hum, she beats up on the same bunch of mediocrities on the same old plastic.
She'll never pass Peppers Pride.
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brianwspencer
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« Reply #10 on: October 11, 2009, 09:25:21 PM »

The good news it that at least this time around, she made Anabaa's Creation look like the claimer she is....

That's progress.
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DoctorLock
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« Reply #11 on: October 11, 2009, 09:38:47 PM »

Have no idea what to do with Zenyatta. She could very well be the real deal. But all I have is a single Oaklawn race to go by that says she'll handle any surface, likely against any competition...I truly hope they stay away from the Classic. I think her participation would make betting the race that much more complicated. And as a horseplayer...in this case, not the fan...I would much rather see her face her own kind, even if it means we remain unsure about how good she really is.
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glahn
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« Reply #12 on: October 11, 2009, 11:06:16 PM »

What are you smoking?  screwy

He's not smoking anything. My guess is he looked at the teletimer. Whether or not Zenyatta _could_ have run faster, though, is up for debate.

P.S. When entries for the BC come out, get back to me. First we need to see where she goes, and which euros run in the Classic. I'd take odds-on that a European horse wins the Classic. And depending on who and how many show up, probably the Mile, Turf, Marathon, and Turf Sprint.

[edit: Forgot about Da Re Mi in the F&M Turf]
« Last Edit: October 11, 2009, 11:15:33 PM by glahn » Report to moderator   Logged
glahn
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« Reply #13 on: October 11, 2009, 11:18:46 PM »

What are you smoking?  screwy

From Steve Crist:

"But there is simply no arguing that a mile and a sixteenth in 1:42.89 (Lady's Secret) is a significantly slower performance than a mile and an eighth in 1:48.39 (Goodwood).

Zenyatta ran her final sixteenth in 6.23 seconds. Say that she could have sustained that for another sixteenth, tack another 6.23 on to her final time, and you get a projected 9f final time of 1:49.12, which is 0.73 seconds (roughly four lengths) slower than the Goodwood and -- perhaps surprisingly -- right about what Mine That Bird ran while beaten 3 3/4 lengths in the Goodwood. "

I would think that she could not just sustain it, but would've run an extra sixteenth a little more quickly, maybe 6-flat, or even 5 and 4. That's still slower than Gitano Hernando, though.
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CLOCKERbiggestal
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« Reply #14 on: October 12, 2009, 05:51:59 AM »

What are you smoking?  screwy

Nothing but the fact cigarettes.

Zenyetta 142.89 for 8.5F beating 2 G1 winners and 1 G2 Winners

Gitano Hernando 148.39 for 9F beating 4 G1 winners and 4 G2 winners

Heres an easy handicapping question. which horse ran faster?

 clocker biggestal
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CLOCKERbiggestal
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« Reply #15 on: October 12, 2009, 05:55:28 AM »

Have no idea what to do with Zenyatta. She could very well be the real deal. But all I have is a single Oaklawn race to go by that says she'll handle any surface, likely against any competition...I truly hope they stay away from the Classic. I think her participation would make betting the race that much more complicated. And as a horseplayer...in this case, not the fan...I would much rather see her face her own kind, even if it means we remain unsure about how good she really is.

actually it makes the classic a tremendous vaue race.

She'll be one of the choices and she's an easy toss for me.

Rippy (Rip Van Winkle) is also a toss for me.


 clocker BIGGESTAL
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ChitownSteve75
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« Reply #16 on: October 12, 2009, 08:00:43 AM »

HAHAHA!!!! Zenyatta wins a race with her ears pricked forward and Mike Smith hand riding her to the finish in a race that I feel is too short for her giant strides anyway. I'm glad she ran a "slow" race because now I'll get higher value. The fact is, she runs as fast has she has to. She doesn't win by 20 lengths. She waits and fires, much like a Euro horse. If they go faster, she'll go faster.

Horse racing 101 fellas: If a horse wins a race in 1:09.2 ALL OUT getting whipped 17 times vs. a horse that won a race IN HAND in 1:10 flat. I'll go with the 110 flat horse. I do it every time and I win.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2009, 08:03:18 AM by ChitownSteve75 » Report to moderator   Logged

ZENYATTA THE GREAT! NOT RA!
ChitownSteve75
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« Reply #17 on: October 12, 2009, 08:36:10 AM »

.....keep in mind, the Lady's Secret went 25 flat, 49.2, and almost 1:13 flat, Slow again.
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ZENYATTA THE GREAT! NOT RA!
mel4600
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« Reply #18 on: October 12, 2009, 08:40:02 AM »

actually it makes the classic a tremendous vaue race.

She'll be one of the choices and she's an easy toss for me.

Rippy (Rip Van Winkle) is also a toss for me.


 clocker BIGGESTAL

How do you keep tossing when you don't know what the makeup of the race is yet?
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mel4600
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« Reply #19 on: October 12, 2009, 08:43:16 AM »

The good news it that at least this time around, she made Anabaa's Creation look like the claimer she is....

That's progress.

...and you call yourself a handicapper? lol
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mel4600
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« Reply #20 on: October 12, 2009, 08:46:53 AM »

He's not smoking anything. My guess is he looked at the teletimer. Whether or not Zenyatta _could_ have run faster, though, is up for debate.

P.S. When entries for the BC come out, get back to me. First we need to see where she goes, and which euros run in the Classic. I'd take odds-on that a European horse wins the Classic. And depending on who and how many show up, probably the Mile, Turf, Marathon, and Turf Sprint.

[edit: Forgot about Da Re Mi in the F&M Turf]

Look at any horse you want running today and show me one that has run a faster finish than her best. I'll be waiting.

P.S. I'll get back to you when the entries come out.
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mel4600
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« Reply #21 on: October 12, 2009, 08:52:39 AM »

From Steve Crist:

"But there is simply no arguing that a mile and a sixteenth in 1:42.89 (Lady's Secret) is a significantly slower performance than a mile and an eighth in 1:48.39 (Goodwood).

Zenyatta ran her final sixteenth in 6.23 seconds. Say that she could have sustained that for another sixteenth, tack another 6.23 on to her final time, and you get a projected 9f final time of 1:49.12, which is 0.73 seconds (roughly four lengths) slower than the Goodwood and -- perhaps surprisingly -- right about what Mine That Bird ran while beaten 3 3/4 lengths in the Goodwood. "

I would think that she could not just sustain it, but would've run an extra sixteenth a little more quickly, maybe 6-flat, or even 5 and 4. That's still slower than Gitano Hernando, though.

LOL...this is a joke! Her ears were forward and he never even asked her for her run! So this is how you handicap? Look, you guys keep putting her down and all she does is keep winning. After your first 13 races almost every horse in history had a loss except a few at this level.
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Marcus Hersh
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« Reply #22 on: October 12, 2009, 09:04:27 AM »

.....keep in mind, the Lady's Secret went 25 flat, 49.2, and almost 1:13 flat, Slow again.

As much as I hate backing up someone who started their previous post with that time-tested opener, "HAHAHA," those splits are the key point. No way Zenyatta was going to run fast off those ridiculous splits, or come close to running as fast as the mighty Gitano Hernando.

It's weird with this horse. Superfans like MEL4600 CHITOWN put on a pair of full-cup blinkers and bite into the Zenyatta hype, saying she'll beat anyone anywhere etc, etc. But at the same time, skeptics don't give her enough credit for constantly winning despite rallying from last into false pace after false pace. And we saw this weekend how easily she wins when she's not ridden by someone doing an imitation of a sack of potatoes. Instead of waiting too long and going widest, this time the jock actually went inside one horse, and let her run earlier. Thus: Game over at the three-sixteenths pole.

If she gets much quicker splits at a mile and a quarter, it could lead to vast improvement. And to those knocking her via Euros based on last year's BC Classic results plus the Goodwood result from Saturday -- not so fast. Unlike Curlin, Zenyatta can run on synthetic. And I would venture to say she is a damn site better than last year's top US Classic finisher, Tiago. And as for Gitano Hernando's win validating the inferiority of US horses: Well, if you didn't realize the Goodwood was a bad bunch BEFORE the race, shame on you. Col John has done nothing to be considered a potentially good horse since winning the SA Derby a year and a half ago. Mine that Bird was coming off throat surgery and is better on dirt. And Richard's Kid's performance did little to flatter Rail Trip or Einstein, since he beat them at Del Mar.

But don't sleep on Summer Bird. Many assume he can't handle synthetic, but that was a long time ago that he trained over the SoCal artificials. Monitor reports of his training carefully. His pattern is this: First work over the track gets knocked by knowledgeable observers. But by his final work for a given race, suddenly he's said by same observers to look good. I saw this first-hand at the KY Derby. First time I saw him gallop, the Sunday before the race, he looked worst of any Derby horse i watched train that day. Five days later, he appeared to be an entirely different animal. Stay tuned.
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mel4600
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« Reply #23 on: October 12, 2009, 09:15:53 AM »

Nothing but the fact cigarettes.

Zenyetta 142.89 for 8.5F beating 2 G1 winners and 1 G2 Winners

Gitano Hernando 148.39 for 9F beating 4 G1 winners and 4 G2 winners

Heres an easy handicapping question. which horse ran faster?

 clocker biggestal

Did you bother to watch the race or did you just look at the time? One horse was playing and had her ears forward just jogging, while the other horse was all out. You seem to forget that she ran in the Ladies Classic last year on the same surface in 146:85, Gitano will never run that fast in his life. Also, if I use your handicapping system, Zenyatta would have won the Classic last year too!
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mel4600
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« Reply #24 on: October 12, 2009, 09:24:47 AM »

It's weird with this horse. Superfans like MEL4600 CHITOWN put on a pair of full-cup blinkers and bite into the Zenyatta hype, saying she'll beat anyone anywhere etc, etc.

Marcus, if you quote me, at least be accurate. I never said she will beat anyone anywhere, I said she could beat Rachael on any surface.

You said she wouldn't win the Lady's Secret and she did!
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