Chicago Barn to Wire
Home | News | Bloggers | Forums | Resources | Links | Marketplace | Gallery | Contact Us | Search


December 19, 2014, 02:03:07 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: If you don't remember your password, email me.

New  registration procedures -- Some ISPs have been bouncing the verification emails.  Please email me to be activated or if you have any problems.  Click Contact Us above.
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register  
Pages: 1 [2] 3   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Supreme Court denies case  (Read 6378 times)
CLOCKERTERRY
Guest

« Reply #25 on: June 08, 2009, 08:55:10 PM »

Get Ready for Year Round Racing

Haw Jan-Apr/Nov-Dec
AP-Oaks Day thru the Breeders CUP

I doubt it. It would just have to collapse back in a couple years.
Report to moderator   Logged
fast track
Newbie
*
Posts: 25




Ignore
« Reply #26 on: June 08, 2009, 08:56:44 PM »

can we hear statements for and against retro payments, as this will hold up the distribution of these funds.
Report to moderator   Logged
CLOCKERTERRY
Guest

« Reply #27 on: June 08, 2009, 09:01:10 PM »

You are correct..my bad...but still..

July 14th is the meeting to determine retro or not..I will be busy soliciting owners and trainers to make this trip.

People might want to make their positions known to the various commissioners before that meeting, because they usually have their minds made up before they walk in, and you can't speak if you're not on the agenda.

Their email address is: IRB.Info@illinois.gov

Their other contact info is:

Illinois Racing Board Contact Information
Main Office

100 West Randolph            Phone: (312) 814.2600
Suite 7-701                      Fax:    (312) 814.5062
Chicago, IL 60601                                               
 
The chairman and commissioners are named here:

http://www.state.il.us/agency/irb/racing/inside/Commissioners.htm

Report to moderator   Logged
fast track
Newbie
*
Posts: 25




Ignore
« Reply #28 on: June 08, 2009, 09:05:37 PM »

i must say with the 3% extention the purses will go up irregardless
of what happens to the funds put in escrow for past years.
Report to moderator   Logged
BeauNarro
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2801

Don't look a gift horse in the mouth.....


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #29 on: June 08, 2009, 09:08:07 PM »

Anyone on the Cash Basis picks it up as income in the current year and even if you are on the accrual basis I doubt this is an issue(not 100% SURE) but doubt it

Here is the problem with the cash basis. Everyone from owners, trainers, jockeys, jockeys agents, grooms, stable managers, track owners..etc. would need to be figured into the equation. can you imagine the cluster-*** that that would produce??
Report to moderator   Logged
CLOCKERTERRY
Guest

« Reply #30 on: June 08, 2009, 09:19:48 PM »

i must say with the 3% extention the purses will go up irregardless
of what happens to the funds put in escrow for past years.


The extension legislation is being challenged in court on different grounds than the original legislation was challenged. It could be held up for years, or overturned, or even rescinded by the Assembly. It should also be kept in mind that the current governor is not a friend of racing and probably would not give support to a 3rd renewal. So, this particular bundle of money should probably be used very wisely and not all at once. It was originally intended to cover what, three years? Two years? The IRB should find some way to make it last that same length of time now, until the future is a little clearer, and not let the horsemen and tracks spend it all at once like drunken sailors, like it seems everyone is drooling about.
Report to moderator   Logged
CLOCKERTERRY
Guest

« Reply #31 on: June 08, 2009, 09:24:13 PM »

Here is the problem with the cash basis. Everyone from owners, trainers, jockeys, jockeys agents, grooms, stable managers, track owners..etc. would need to be figured into the equation. can you imagine the cluster-*** that that would produce??

The IRB wouldn't mess with it. I doubt the tracks would, either. More likely the IRB would turn it over to the tracks' purse accounts and they in turn would just put it in owners' horsemen accounts or send it as a check and say, "It's your responsibility." Good luck to all of the racing industry participants getting it out of those owners, especially ones no longer in the game or who changed trainers. 
Report to moderator   Logged
CLOCKERTERRY
Guest

« Reply #32 on: June 08, 2009, 09:33:39 PM »

can we hear statements for and against retro payments, as this will hold up the distribution of these funds.

My 2nd main argument against retro payments is that if it wasn't in the purse you entered to run for in the past, it wasn't in those purses. Had it been, maybe tougher horses or more horses would have contested that race, and you might not have won. You ran for the purses on offer that day or night. No more, and no less.

My 1st main argument is that the money was allocated by the Assembly to make Illinois races more competitive with other states and attract more and better horses. It's spelled out in the law. Handing it out to retro winners would not accomplish that and spits in the face of the Assembly.
Report to moderator   Logged
INJUREDONE
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 328




Ignore
« Reply #33 on: June 08, 2009, 10:12:33 PM »

cluster *** or not-------
the money was rewarded 2 years ago--------i as an owner for the past 2 years will fight for every dime we have coming.
we stayed here in illinois thru thick and thin and expect our share.
thats what attorneys are for.
bottom line-the money was rewarded 2 years ago and anyone that was owners are entitled to it.
just because it just now is being released doesnt mean we will be aced out.

whats right is right---maybe old owners may get back in the game.......

we will let our attorneys follow this and i promise we will sue the irb if it is not retro.........money was awarded in 2007
pay up
Report to moderator   Logged
INJUREDONE
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 328




Ignore
« Reply #34 on: June 08, 2009, 10:39:55 PM »

how many posters are former owners withen the last 2 yrs?

should we make a class action suit or everyone handle their own case?
Report to moderator   Logged
Horse Voice
Guest

« Reply #35 on: June 08, 2009, 10:58:34 PM »

cluster *** or not-------
the money was rewarded 2 years ago

Problem #1
If the "money was rewarded 2 years ago", why don't you already have it? Because it wasn't rewarded 2 years ago, that's why.

That's your first legal problem -- the money isn't considered "rewarded" until it is actually released.

Problem #2
Do you have any documentation that shows that you ran your horses "under protest", for less money than was "promised"?

If not, you got the money you implicitly agreed to run for, and you are due NOTHING now.

***

Yeah, you and the other owners can sue and hold things up, if you want -- anybody can sue anybody without much of a leg to stand on -- but in the end, you won't get a dime more, and you'll just unnecessarily delay what could be a very nice improvement in Illinois racing. Go ahead -- be all the JERKS you can be.

Report to moderator   Logged
Horse Voice
Guest

« Reply #36 on: June 08, 2009, 11:12:36 PM »

should we make a class action suit or everyone handle their own case?

Depends -- which works best for blatant, barefaced attempts to grab free money that you didn't earn?

Maybe you should consult with your local welfare queen -- she would know best about how to get money for nothing, shameless, as if she deserved it.
Report to moderator   Logged
Thomas Graham
Guest

« Reply #37 on: June 09, 2009, 01:09:06 AM »

Actually it's pretty simple - the money is to be paid out after it is placed in the "horse racing equity fund", which it hasn't been - it's been in an escrow account.

I found an old condition book from 2007 and it says:

Purse $28,000 Maiden Special Weight  - it doesn't say Purse $28,000 ($38,000 if we get the money from the casinos) Maiden Specal Weight - so sorry Tu Tu Twain - you entered and ran for $28k and were paid based on $28k - pay the money going forward TO MAKE RACING BETTER NOT REWARD PAST WINNERS.

The intent of the law was to improve racing - how does paying retro improve racing going forward?  Oh yeah, IT DOESN'T.
Report to moderator   Logged
Klink
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 696




Ignore
« Reply #38 on: June 09, 2009, 05:03:46 AM »

People might want to make their positions known to the various commissioners before that meeting, because they usually have their minds made up before they walk in, and you can't speak if you're not on the agenda.

Their email address is: IRB.Info@illinois.gov

Their other contact info is:

Illinois Racing Board Contact Information
Main Office

100 West Randolph            Phone: (312) 814.2600
Suite 7-701                      Fax:    (312) 814.5062
Chicago, IL 60601                                               
 
The chairman and commissioners are named here:

http://www.state.il.us/agency/irb/racing/inside/Commissioners.htm



Thank you
Report to moderator   Logged
Klink
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 696




Ignore
« Reply #39 on: June 09, 2009, 05:05:26 AM »

Reading this, it sounds like the Harness Side does not have this retro issue/conflict?

http://www.harnessracing.com/news_detailed.php?id=12298


Report to moderator   Logged
Old and Slow
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2811




Ignore
« Reply #40 on: June 09, 2009, 05:34:16 AM »

Reading this, it sounds like the Harness Side does not have this retro issue/conflict?

http://www.harnessracing.com/news_detailed.php?id=12298
Klink, I posted this on the harness side (I'm a sbred owner) in response to fast track, who, like you, contends that the money escrowed has already been raced for.

fast track, I just can't buy into that argument. I had well over 200 starts in that 2 year span, from the Open (not nearly enough times) to 4 claimers (too many times) and I always knew that I was racing for the purse listed on the condition sheet - nothing more and nothing less. In no way do I feel entitled to any more money.

We who are involved today are stewards of the game, IMO. We must always look out for the future, both for our benefit and for those who come after.
Report to moderator   Logged

I know one thing for sure.  Indecision may or may not be my problem.
Klink
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 696




Ignore
« Reply #41 on: June 09, 2009, 05:55:34 AM »

Klink, I posted this on the harness side (I'm a sbred owner) in response to fast track, who, like you, contends that the money escrowed has already been raced for.

fast track, I just can't buy into that argument. I had well over 200 starts in that 2 year span, from the Open (not nearly enough times) to 4 claimers (too many times) and I always knew that I was racing for the purse listed on the condition sheet - nothing more and nothing less. In no way do I feel entitled to any more money.

We who are involved today are stewards of the game, IMO. We must always look out for the future, both for our benefit and for those who come after.

Just to clarify, I too, although having raced at AP the last 3 years and having won purse money, feel this money should NOT be retrod (is that a word?), but be used for future purses and for the future of racing.
Report to moderator   Logged
orioles
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 914




Ignore
« Reply #42 on: June 09, 2009, 05:55:48 AM »

A MEN
Report to moderator   Logged
Klink
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 696




Ignore
« Reply #43 on: June 09, 2009, 05:57:12 AM »

how many posters are former owners withen the last 2 yrs?

should we make a class action suit or everyone handle their own case?

I am a current and past owner who if, this money was paid back, would receive additional purse money. I want no part of this money or the lawsuit.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2009, 07:14:43 AM by Klink » Report to moderator   Logged
Old and Slow
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2811




Ignore
« Reply #44 on: June 09, 2009, 05:59:02 AM »

Just to clarify, I too, although having raced at AP the last 3 years and having won purse money, feel this money should NOT be retrod (is that a word?), but be used for future purses and for the future of racing.
Sorry, Klink, I confused you with tu tu twain. My bad.
Report to moderator   Logged

I know one thing for sure.  Indecision may or may not be my problem.
Old and Slow
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2811




Ignore
« Reply #45 on: June 09, 2009, 05:59:51 AM »

I am a current and past owner who if, this money was paid back, would receive additional purse money. I want no part of that and no part of your selfish lawsuit and will be at the IRB Meeting on the 14th to say just that.
Well said! thumbs up thumbs up
Report to moderator   Logged

I know one thing for sure.  Indecision may or may not be my problem.
Earl Sande
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2162




Ignore
« Reply #46 on: June 09, 2009, 06:10:31 AM »

Retro payments = a mad scheme dreamed up by Huh?
There's no chance it can happen, but maybe some dumb owners can tie the money up in court just like the casinos did.
Report to moderator   Logged
Old and Slow
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2811




Ignore
« Reply #47 on: June 09, 2009, 06:59:10 AM »

Retro payments = a mad scheme dreamed up by Huh?
There's no chance it can happen, but maybe some dumb owners can tie the money up in court just like the casinos did.
Earl, I couldn't agree with you more.

As Klink noted, retro payments have not been an issue (thus far) on the harness side.

If some nutty tbred owners do sue the IRB, I hope it doesn't affect the transfer of funds to the harness purse account.

The IRB would be defended by the Attorney General. How much are a few disgruntled owners willing to spend in legal fees fighting a foe with unlimited resources?

I must say, though, that from what I've read on here at least, that the majority of tbred owners are well-intentioned people with an eye to the future, concerned about our business going forward.  I hope they prevail.

It only takes a few like tu tu twain to gum up the works. I hope none surface on our side.
Report to moderator   Logged

I know one thing for sure.  Indecision may or may not be my problem.
CLOCKERTERRY
Guest

« Reply #48 on: June 09, 2009, 07:27:30 AM »

cluster *** or not-------
the money was rewarded 2 years ago--------i as an owner for the past 2 years will fight for every dime we have coming.
we stayed here in illinois thru thick and thin and expect our share.

Your reward for sticking through thick and thin is to finally have the opportunity to run for bigger purses.

Quote
bottom line-the money was rewarded 2 years ago and anyone that was owners are entitled to it.
just because it just now is being released doesnt mean we will be aced out.

The law was passed several years ago, but its legality was contested in court. It didn't take effect until yesterday, until the U.S. Supreme Court finally gave it a green light. Who knows, maybe the casinos will find another way to delay it yet.

Quote
whats right is right

What's right is that the money given to the racing industry by the Assembly be used as the Assembly intended it to be used, as spelled out in the law - to compete with other states, to attract more and better horses, and to generate more wagering handle. Spitting in the Assembly's face and using it in a different manner than intended is not right, and is counterproductive to getting future help from the Assembly. They would look at retro payments and say, "These guys obviously could care less about trying to put a better more attractive product on the track, so why should we bother?"

"(3) That the decline of the Illinois horseracing and
16           breeding program, a $2.5 billion industry, would be
17           reversed if this amendatory Act of the 94th General
18           Assembly was enacted. By requiring that riverboats agree to
19           pay 3% of their gross revenue into the Horse Racing Equity
20           Trust Fund, total purses in the State may increase by 50%,
21           helping Illinois tracks to better compete with those in
22           other states.
"

How does retro payments help "Illinois tracks to better compete with those in other states" through higher purses?
Report to moderator   Logged
CLOCKERTERRY
Guest

« Reply #49 on: June 09, 2009, 07:29:58 AM »

I am a current and past owner who if, this money was paid back, would receive additional purse money. I want no part of this money or the lawsuit.

I've raced horses for 15 years, and my feelings are clear. Sorry, I do not support Tu Tu Twain/hockeydad.
Report to moderator   Logged
Pages: 1 [2] 3   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.20 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.156 seconds with 16 queries.

Home
Upcoming events
Breeders' Cup
Horse slaughter in IL
Racing TV schedule
News Updates
Legislation

Galloping Out

Previous stories

Arlington
Balmoral
Hawthorne
Maywood
Chicago Sun-Times
Chicago Tribune
Blood-Horse
Daily Racing Form
Thoroughbred Times
Harness Link
Illinois Racing Board

 

2014

Breeders' Cup
Arlington Million
Triple Crown
Illinois Derby

2013

Breeders' Cup
Hawthorne Gold Cup
Arlington Million
Triple Crown
Illinois Derby

2012

Breeders' Cup
Hawthorne Gold Cup
Arlington Million
Triple Crown
Illinois Derby

More ebay items

 

Home | News Updates | Bloggers | Forums | Search
Resources | Links | Marketplace | Gallery | Advertising | Contact Us

Copyright © 2000-2014 Chicago Barn to Wire. All rights reserved.
Privacy policy