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Author Topic: Look out for Julien LeParoux!!!  (Read 5718 times)
Yimmy
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« Reply #25 on: June 30, 2012, 06:12:14 AM »

Did you chance to notice... the fractions, as well as the fact that Tahoe Lake is a horse who generally comes from way behind even in marathon 12f events?  Leparoux's horse got bet hard, so he couldn't sit way back behind that absurdly slow pace, so he middle-moved the horse; he was damned if he did and damned if he didn't.   

 
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hungry
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« Reply #26 on: June 30, 2012, 06:16:24 AM »

Did you chance to notice... the fractions, as well as the fact that Tahoe Lake is a horse who generally comes from way behind even in marathon 12f events?  Leparoux's horse got bet hard, so he couldn't sit way back behind that absurdly slow pace, so he middle-moved the horse; he was damned if he did and damned if he didn't.   

 

Sure, i get it, the horse was 'shortening up' and he had to 'move' soon, but to finish last is hard to fathom.
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Yimmy
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« Reply #27 on: June 30, 2012, 06:35:10 AM »

Would it have made the slightest difference if he sat near the back of the pack and finished fifth?
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HorseVoice*
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« Reply #28 on: June 30, 2012, 06:35:38 AM »

Why would you make fun of Russel Baze while responding to a post that was suggesting he could be a great teacher to jocks who arent as skilled as he is?

Because such a mention has no business in a post about Julien Leparoux, that's why.

Baze has a claim to quantity -- that's it -- but it is no indication of greatness. Leparoux has already demonstrated that he is destined to be one of the game's greats (if he ever snaps out of his current funk, that is).

"mottoman" has proven repeatedly here over the years that he hasn't a single clue when it comes to jockeys (his mantra is "jockeys don't matter", which is abject nonsense), and he started this mess with his stupid comment about Baze being able to teach Leparoux something.
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hungry
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« Reply #29 on: June 30, 2012, 06:37:46 AM »

Because such a mention has no business in a post about Julien Leparoux, that's why.

Baze has a claim to quantity -- that's it -- but it is no indication of greatness. Leparoux has already demonstrated that he is destined to be one of the game's greats (if he ever snaps out of his current funk, that is).

"mottoman" has proven repeatedly here over the years that he hasn't a single clue when it comes to jockeys (his mantra is "jockeys don't matter", which is abject nonsense), and he started this mess with his stupid comment about Baze being able to teach Leparoux something.

I agree, someone else mentioned Baze, i shouldnt have taken the bait and said anything. My bad.
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HorseVoice*
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« Reply #30 on: June 30, 2012, 06:45:23 AM »

I agree, someone else mentioned Baze, i shouldnt have taken the bait and said anything. My bad.

You were just adding on, and went off on a different tangent.

I don't hate Baze, but I can't stand those that think he is a "top" rider, and I took it out on you -- MY bad there. Sorry.
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Yimmy
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« Reply #31 on: June 30, 2012, 06:48:30 AM »

But you were implying that Baze opposed the Wilmot Proviso, favored the invasion of Estonia, and discovered a cure for kwashiorkor. 
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hungry
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« Reply #32 on: June 30, 2012, 06:51:47 AM »

You were just adding on, and went off on a different tangent.

I don't hate Baze, but I can't stand those that think he is a "top" rider, and I took it out on you -- MY bad there. Sorry.

No prob HV, i enjoy our debates, its all good.

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mottoman
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« Reply #33 on: June 30, 2012, 07:11:07 AM »

I'm up for fisherman of the Year!  Listen, a good experienced jock will win most races when he sits on the best horse.  Handicapp the horse/trainer/pace and don't worry about which jock is on your horse.  Its just the most over rated thing in handicapping and most every jock will tell you the same thing.  Look at this years derby/preakness.  Before the races most would not even know who that jock was but he had the best animal.    I do think that LeParoux sits to patiently on many of his rides.  He reminds me of a young Pat Day but just does not have the pure hands and clock in his head like Day had.  Yes, that may come as he grows with his experience.
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Yimmy
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« Reply #34 on: June 30, 2012, 07:17:29 AM »

Well, he certainly doesn't have leProsy.  Do you guys want him to quit and become, say, a lePidopterist, or a one-armed drummer for a Def LePpard cover band?
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Round Table
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« Reply #35 on: June 30, 2012, 07:26:57 AM »

He won his eclipse award as an apprentice and then got compared to willie shoemaker, i remember.
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They ought to return to Tampa and fix the mistake they made.
Yimmy
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« Reply #36 on: June 30, 2012, 07:47:01 AM »

Well, he's not better than DoMinguez.  But who really is?
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the exactorman
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« Reply #37 on: June 30, 2012, 08:21:40 AM »

I bet tracks all around the country, however, my focus is usually on the NYRA tracks. When I lose I rarely will blame anything on a jockey because when I watch races, generally the NYRA jockeys have their horses in the right positions. If they lose its because of factors of pace, or just not having the best horse. My point....I take the old quotation from Herve Filion (best harness driver of all time) who said "jockeys/drivers get too much credit and take too much blame". The horse and the trainer are most important. If someone is really honest with themselves, even if they are betting Fairmount Park, Turfway, wherever, if any of the top 10 jockeys for that particular track were put on the best horse they would win. People love to blame jockeys......and praise them too much.....
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HorseVoice*
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« Reply #38 on: June 30, 2012, 08:22:49 AM »

Listen, a good experienced jock will win most races when he sits on the best horse.  Handicapp the horse/trainer/pace and don't worry about which jock is on your horse.  Its just the most over rated thing in handicapping and most every jock will tell you the same thing.  Look at this years derby/preakness.

How about we look at the Florida Derby / Ky. Derby / Belmont instead, and then tell the owners of Union Rags that the jock is "the most over rated [sic] thing in handicapping"?

If you never pay any attention to who is riding, I'll guarantee you that you are throwing away money on slumping jocks, which is fine -- more for me!
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Yimmy
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« Reply #39 on: June 30, 2012, 08:42:17 AM »

It is a factor one ignores at one's peril, but to judge from several of the posters here who put up the most repetitive and ridiculous rider-comparison threads ("could bejarranno have beated goerge wolffe on a 917/489's mile-Track on a cold Day?"), there are a lot of people out there who pay attention to little else.  Sad
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hungry
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« Reply #40 on: June 30, 2012, 08:10:09 PM »

How about we look at the Florida Derby / Ky. Derby / Belmont instead, and then tell the owners of Union Rags that the jock is "the most over rated [sic] thing in handicapping"?

If you never pay any attention to who is riding, I'll guarantee you that you are throwing away money on slumping jocks, which is fine -- more for me!

UR would have won the Belmont with Julien, to think he wouldnt is foolishness. Now, if you want to convince me that a top jock to a bottom rung jock matters i would agree wholeheartedly. But to say that one elite guy to another elite guy matters is kind of hogwash.

Do you have any proof that UR loses that race with Julien aboard?
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HorseVoice*
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« Reply #41 on: June 30, 2012, 08:20:19 PM »

UR would have won the Belmont with Julien, to think he wouldnt is foolishness. Now, if you want to convince me that a top jock to a bottom rung jock matters i would agree wholeheartedly. But to say that one elite guy to another elite guy matters is kind of hogwash.

Do you have any proof that UR loses that race with Julien aboard?

Do you have any proof that UR wins the Belmont with Julien aboard? It's a bullshit question. Night follows day -- I can't prove why.

The fact is: Lep was riding UR poorly, and lost the mount to Johnny V., who promptly won with the animal in the Belmont.

That's not proof, but it's a healthy dose of evidence that the change was warranted.

Back in the day, when the East German women were winning EVERY Olympic event, the authorities could never PROVE that these women were filled to the gills with synthetic testosterone -- that they were shaving twice a day was only considered "evidence".  sneaky

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Yimmy
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« Reply #42 on: June 30, 2012, 08:24:08 PM »



 Cheesy
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hungry
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« Reply #43 on: June 30, 2012, 08:45:31 PM »

Do you have any proof that UR wins the Belmont with Julien aboard? It's a bullshit question. Night follows day -- I can't prove why.

The fact is: Lep was riding UR poorly, and lost the mount to Johnny V., who promptly won with the animal in the Belmont.

That's not proof, but it's a healthy dose of evidence that the change was warranted.

Back in the day, when the East German women were winning EVERY Olympic event, the authorities could never PROVE that these women were filled to the gills with synthetic testosterone -- that they were shaving twice a day was only considered "evidence".  sneaky



So i take it you have no proof?
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Yimmy
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« Reply #44 on: June 30, 2012, 08:54:17 PM »

The proposition does not lend itself to "proof."
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hungry
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« Reply #45 on: June 30, 2012, 08:59:19 PM »

The proposition does not lend itself to "proof."

I ask for proof and its a 'bullshit question'. He asks for proof (in the front bandages threads) and suddenly, magically, its NOT a BS question.

Ok.
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Yimmy
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« Reply #46 on: June 30, 2012, 09:15:54 PM »

The validity of the broad proposition can be tested by the application of stats over the long term.  This specific one can't.
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hungry
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« Reply #47 on: June 30, 2012, 09:29:19 PM »

The validity of the broad proposition can be tested by the application of stats over the long term.  This specific one can't.

But there's a subset of those stats that's 'opinion' you have to determine which ones you want to include in the 'study'. You dont just blindly include them all.
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Yimmy
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« Reply #48 on: June 30, 2012, 09:31:14 PM »

See the last race at Belmont yesterday?   Wink
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thoroughbred
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« Reply #49 on: July 01, 2012, 10:10:17 AM »



 Cheesy

LMFAO!!!! now that's funny. As far as the thread goes, IMHO Leparoux sucks. For whatever reason he got UR in trouble in every race he rode him. That is the jockeys job, keep the horse out of trouble and at least give him a chance to win. Leparoux did neither every time he rode Rags. I don't know if he just isn't strong enough to handle Rags or what, but personally I wouldn't let him ride a stable pony. JMHO.
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