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Author Topic: Magna in Maryland  (Read 4044 times)
edwarren
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« on: February 10, 2009, 02:41:00 PM »

And I said no, the company can't afford it. They're already freaking out over a $28.5M application fee in Maryland.

Nice try but according to the Baltimore Sun, they never said they didn't have the money.

Stockholders in MID getting ripped off left and right, screaming bloody murder about it, and filing lawsuits, that's who.

Franks accustomed to lawsuits, but can you save some time, which lawsuits. Now I'm more interested so I can search if you don't feel up to it, no problem.


It's a fact, but has nothing to do with anything under discussion, including why Magna didn't turn in their application fee. The sun comes up every day, and was up the the day slots applications were due in Maryland. That's a fact, too.

Nice try again but Alan Foreman, atty for the horsemen say Frank AND a Magna rep, blame de francis saying now they don't think he's a "suitable partner".  Foreman said, adding that Magna Chairman Frank "Stronach wasn't going to do a deal that made DeFrancis a rich man and left nothing for him."

"You have to ask the question: How can a company that has invested so much time and investment here ... then make the determination they're not going to participate?" says M Busch House speaker.

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CLOCKERTERRY
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« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2009, 03:37:33 PM »

Nice try but according to the Baltimore Sun, they never said they didn't have the money.

No, but they freaked out about it just like I said, unlike the other better financed applicants who managed to turn theirs in on time.

Quote
Franks accustomed to lawsuits, but can you save some time, which lawsuits.

The two or three that have now been filed by one (or more) of the capital fund shareholders trying to force MID to divest itself of MEC and get back to being a REIT. The name I remember is Greenlight Capital, or some such.

Quote
Nice try again but Alan Foreman, atty for the horsemen say Frank AND a Magna rep, blame de francis saying now they don't think he's a "suitable partner".  Foreman said, adding that Magna Chairman Frank "Stronach wasn't going to do a deal that made DeFrancis a rich man and left nothing for him."

That might be going on, but it isn't the reason they gave for not turning their application fee in on time.

Quote
"You have to ask the question: How can a company that has invested so much time and investment here ... then make the determination they're not going to participate?" says M Busch House speaker.

Exactly. So they participated, by putting in the application on time, but putting the money in escrow rather than turning it over to the State like they were supposed to.

Here are some news stories. All of them cite the official concern over a refund if zoning is denied.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/local/politics/bal-md.slots06feb06002018,0,1787911.story
 
http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/news/local/politics/2009/02/mike_miller_magna_slots_bids.html   
 
http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/opinion/oped/bal-op.rodricks08feb08,0,2007781.column
 
http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/horseracing/bal-md.slots08feb08,0,1693879.story
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edwarren
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« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2009, 03:50:21 PM »

No, but they freaked out about it just like I said, unlike the other better financed applicants who managed to turn theirs in on time.

The two or three that have now been filed by one (or more) of the capital fund shareholders trying to force MID to divest itself of MEC and get back to being a REIT. The name I remember is Greenlight Capital, or some such.

That might be going on, but it isn't the reason they gave for not turning their application fee in on time.

Exactly. So they participated, by putting in the application on time, but putting the money in escrow rather than turning it over to the State like they were supposed to.

Here are some news stories. All of them cite the official concern over a refund if zoning is denied.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/local/politics/bal-md.slots06feb06002018,0,1787911.story
 
http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/news/local/politics/2009/02/mike_miller_magna_slots_bids.html   
 
http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/opinion/oped/bal-op.rodricks08feb08,0,2007781.column
 
http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/horseracing/bal-md.slots08feb08,0,1693879.story


"freaked out".  that's a good one. "freaked out" = your opinion of course. Yes they have the money. Its in escrow. Yes, they are concerned over refund but THEY HAVE MONEY.
Application incomplete.
Nice try but concern is over "suitable partner" as I quoted.
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CLOCKERTERRY
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« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2009, 03:57:22 PM »

"freaked out".  that's a good one. "freaked out" = your opinion of course. Yes they have the money. Its in escrow. Yes, they are concerned over refund but THEY HAVE MONEY.
Application incomplete.
Nice try but concern is over "suitable partner" as I quoted.


Four news stories from the Baltimore paper report the official given reason for not turning that money in on time was their concern over getting their application fee back in the case of not getting zoning. But you edwarren say it's because of DeFrancis. Please provide the reliable news source that says the reason they didn't turn in their fee last Monday was specifically DeFrancis. That would be kind of bad for them if they lied to the slots application committee and it was public knowledge, I'd think.
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edwarren
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« Reply #4 on: February 10, 2009, 04:10:29 PM »

Four news stories from the Baltimore paper report the official given reason for not turning that money in on time was their concern over getting their application fee back in the case of not getting zoning. But you edwarren say it's because of DeFrancis. Please provide the reliable news source that says the reason they didn't turn in their fee last Monday was specifically DeFrancis. That would be kind of bad for them if they lied to the slots application committee and it was public knowledge, I'd think.

Sure. Will do. Oh by the way, they have the money. Agreed. Its in escrow like you say. Ha, MEC is the only firm concerned over the zoning Huh All others filed timely and complete applications. Whazzup?
failure to find a "suitable partner."  There ya go!, pardner.

"You have to ask the question: How can a company that has invested so much time and investment here ... then make the determination they're not going to participate?" says M Busch House speaker.

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CLOCKERTERRY
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« Reply #5 on: February 10, 2009, 04:14:02 PM »

Sure. Will do. Oh by the way, they have the money. Agreed. Its in escrow like you say. Ha, MEC is the only firm concerned over the zoning Huh All others filed timely and complete applications. Whazzup?
failure to find a "suitable partner."  There ya go!, pardner.

"You have to ask the question: How can a company that has invested so much time and investment here ... then make the determination they're not going to participate?" says M Busch House speaker.

Just skip the nonsense and provide the documentation.
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edwarren
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« Reply #6 on: February 10, 2009, 04:24:09 PM »

It's from the Sun, of course. I quoted. Hey what's the expression? Ragging the witness? Get off the rag.

Terry, Greenlight Capitol? Are they still madder than bees? I thought that suit was settled and ... Score Frank?  G-O-A-L !!!!!!
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CLOCKERTERRY
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« Reply #7 on: February 10, 2009, 04:43:04 PM »

It's from the Sun, of course. I quoted. Hey what's the expression? Ragging the witness? Get off the rag.

Provide a link to the story that says they didn't turn in their fee because they think DeFrancis is now an undesirable partner. I provided four links that said otherwise.

Quote
Terry, Greenlight Capitol? Are they still madder than bees? I thought that suit was settled and ... Score Frank?  G-O-A-L !!!!!!

It doesn't matter what the status currently is. Thank you for validating my claim. They filed at least two lawsuits or shareholder actions or proxy fights or whatever against MID for using their money to fund MEC, and trying to force MID to divest of MEC, just like I said. It's their money and the money of other MID investors that's funding Frank's MEC boondoggle. At least, they think it is.
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edwarren
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« Reply #8 on: February 10, 2009, 04:52:37 PM »


It doesn't matter what the status currently is. Thank you for validating my claim. They filed at least two lawsuits or shareholder actions or proxy fights or whatever against MID for using their money to fund MEC, and trying to force MID to divest of MEC, just like I said. It's their money and the money of other MID investors that's funding Frank's MEC boondoggle. At least, they think it is.

Franks accustomed to lawsuits Terry. He expects them. It's part of how he conducts business. All across this proud land, litigation is as American as apple pie.

Did you catch my pun, earlier?
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CLOCKERTERRY
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« Reply #9 on: February 10, 2009, 04:57:44 PM »

I can see this is a total waste of time.
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edwarren
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« Reply #10 on: February 10, 2009, 05:01:48 PM »

Yep. You've wasted everybodies time. By the way, you provided the quote, yourself.
In one of the "rags" you "upended", further up the thread.   geezer

You're all right with me Terry, just not right all the time.
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edwarren
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« Reply #11 on: February 10, 2009, 05:02:54 PM »

Provide a link to the story that says they didn't turn in their fee because they think DeFrancis is now an undesirable partner. I provided four links that said otherwise.

It doesn't matter what the status currently is. Thank you for validating my claim. They filed at least two lawsuits or shareholder actions or proxy fights or whatever against MID for using their money to fund MEC, and trying to force MID to divest of MEC, just like I said. It's their money and the money of other MID investors that's funding Frank's MEC boondoggle. At least, they think it is.

Can't they sell? You know? Back to Frank, of course.
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CLOCKERTERRY
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« Reply #12 on: February 10, 2009, 07:22:58 PM »

Yep. You've wasted everybodies time. By the way, you provided the quote, yourself.
In one of the "rags" you "upended", further up the thread.   geezer

Naturally, no specifics from you, once again. clockerbob provides more support for his arguments.

There's no quote in any of the stories I provided that says Magna didn't turn in its bid money because DeFrancis wasn't a suitable partner.

One story says, "Executives were concerned about whether they would get the application fee back if their slots plans were derailed by a local zoning fight. The financially strapped company also appeared to have trouble finding a reputable gambling operator to partner with in Maryland, and had committed to a problematic profit-sharing deal with Joseph A. DeFrancis, a former owner of Laurel Park."

Another speculates there's starting to be something of a split between Magna and traditional Maryland racing interests, including Joe D.

However, all four stories say the official reason given was "zoning", and none say anything about Magna telling anyone DeFrancis was unsuitable or not reputable.
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edwarren
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« Reply #13 on: February 10, 2009, 07:47:46 PM »

let's see. we went from "freaking out" (Terry said Frank is "freaking out!" remember?) to "no he has no $" (another Terry),  to "yes, has $ but it's in escrow", to zoning problems, to inability to find a suitable partner. What! Hold on ! Inability to find a suitable partner?

Ed wins.  medal

"But just two weeks ago, Magna officials told representatives of the horse industry in a private briefing that they did not yet have an operating partner, though they were confident they would get one, said Alan Foreman, a lawyer for the Maryland Thoroughbred Horsemen's Association who attended the presentation.

That wasn't the only detail left to the last moment.


According to people familiar with the situation, Magna continued to negotiate to the 11th hour with DeFrancis, a contentious figure in Annapolis who secured a hefty cut of any eventual proceeds when he sold his stake in the Maryland Jockey Club, owner of Pimlico and Laurel.

DeFrancis hails from a storied family in the horse racing industry and has been a major player in Annapolis on the slots issue. As the debate was heating up in 2002 and 2003, he contributed $225,000 to a national group, the Democratic Legislative Campaign Committee, controlled by Senate President Thomas V. Mike Miller, an aggressive slots proponent.

Maryland's slots legislation imposes one of the highest tax rates in the country. So if Magna could not renegotiate DeFrancis' share of slots proceeds, the company would be left with a slim profit margin - if any. "It's common knowledge that that agreement needed to be reworked; it was a significant impediment," Foreman said, adding that Magna Chairman Frank "Stronach wasn't going to do a deal that made DeFrancis a rich man and left nothing for him.""


« Last Edit: February 10, 2009, 08:04:38 PM by edwarren » Report to moderator   Logged
CLOCKERTERRY
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« Reply #14 on: February 11, 2009, 12:08:18 AM »

let's see. we went from "freaking out" (Terry said Frank is "freaking out!" remember?) to "no he has no $" (another Terry),  to "yes, has $ but it's in escrow", to zoning problems, to inability to find a suitable partner. What! Hold on ! Inability to find a suitable partner?

Not to put too fine a point on it, but you're the one who introduced the issue of DeFrancis as a "suitable partner":

Nice try again but Alan Foreman, atty for the horsemen say Frank AND a Magna rep, blame de francis saying now they don't think he's a "suitable partner".  Foreman said, adding that Magna Chairman Frank "Stronach wasn't going to do a deal that made DeFrancis a rich man and left nothing for him."

Continuing ....

Quote
"But just two weeks ago, Magna officials told representatives of the horse industry in a private briefing that they did not yet have an operating partner, though they were confident they would get one, said Alan Foreman, a lawyer for the Maryland Thoroughbred Horsemen's Association who attended the presentation."

That's right. An "operating partner" like a Harrah's or something, to help them foot the bill. Not Joe DeFrancis.

Quote
That wasn't the only detail left to the last moment.

According to people familiar with the situation, Magna continued to negotiate to the 11th hour with DeFrancis, a contentious figure in Annapolis who secured a hefty cut of any eventual proceeds when he sold his stake in the Maryland Jockey Club, owner of Pimlico and Laurel.

That might be true enough, but it's not the reason they gave for failing to turn in their application fee.

Quote
Maryland's slots legislation imposes one of the highest tax rates in the country. So if Magna could not renegotiate DeFrancis' share of slots proceeds, the company would be left with a slim profit margin - if any. "It's common knowledge that that agreement needed to be reworked; it was a significant impediment," Foreman said, adding that Magna Chairman Frank "Stronach wasn't going to do a deal that made DeFrancis a rich man and left nothing for him.""

Still not the reason cited by Magna, any Magna spokesman, or Frank Stronach for not turning in their application fee. It's the speculation of a horseman. 

MEC had to take out yet another loan from MID to get the money for this application, and even then didn't turn it over to the State of Maryland like it was supposed to do. It has no money of its own and is in debt up to its ears. IMHO it's deathly afraid and freaking out it might somehow end up losing this $28.5M too because of zoning issues, on top of all its other losses, so scared it's unwilling to pay the required filing fee like the other applicants did. If it wasn't scared, what's the difference between $28.5M in a nice safe escrow account or on file with the State of Maryland? It's an undercapitalized, debt ridden company that's running scared to death.
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edwarren
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« Reply #15 on: February 11, 2009, 08:10:04 AM »

Forget it, kid.  It's merely a detail in the paper you were unaware of.
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CLOCKERTERRY
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« Reply #16 on: February 11, 2009, 10:19:51 AM »

Forget it, kid.  It's merely a detail in the paper you were unaware of.

Obviously I was aware of them, as I'm the one who posted those stories. Let's try, "several details you misread" on for size.

The "suitable" partner Magna couldn't find wasn't DeFrancis, because he's already a passive partner by way of his old deal and he's not putting in any more money to help fund the application fee or anything else. What's more, no one referred to him as unsuitable - you made that up because you misread the paragraph and jumbled together trying to find a suitable partner to help them fund their bid with trying to renegotiate DeFrancis' cut.
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CLOCKERTERRY
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« Reply #17 on: February 11, 2009, 10:58:28 AM »

Hey ed look at this, ripped from today's headlines:

Greenlight Rips MEC Reorganization Plan

Still a dissatisfied MID/MEC bagholder.

http://news.bloodhorse.com/article/49152.htm?id=49152

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edwarren
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« Reply #18 on: February 11, 2009, 11:03:10 AM »

Obviously I was aware of them, as I'm the one who posted those stories. Let's try, "several details you misread" on for size.

Here, then, I suppose what matters most is when you discovered their existence but that's moot because whatever you claim is unprovable.

Anyway, Yep you posted them, but you misread them ... for size.
And Alan Foreman isn't "just" a horseman as you say. He's a lawyer for the horsemen and lawyers opinions carry weight in matters of ctts. and business.

I'll grant you the unsuitable "partner" misstatement. Substitute with "unsuitable profit-sharing agreement with de Francis."

Forget it. It's merely a detail the paper included in it's report, that is, the opinion of a prominently involved attorney, that you failed to consider.

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CLOCKERTERRY
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« Reply #19 on: February 11, 2009, 11:20:25 AM »

Forget it. It's merely a detail the paper included in it's report, that is, the opinion of a prominently involved attorney, that you failed to consider.

I didn't fail to consider it, or any of the other stories about behind the scenes attempts to reduce the DeFrancis (and his partners) cut. However, it's not what Magna gave as their reason. It's a third party's opinion. The horsemen are going to get their cut no matter who gets the slots licenses.

The old Magna wouldn't have hesitated a second to properly turn in the fee on time and worry about trying to lobby the state for changes later. This scared Magna had to borrow the money from very unhappy shareholders of MID, and is frightened to death to even turn it over to the State. Why bother turning in a bid at all if you don't want to do a deal?
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edwarren
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« Reply #20 on: February 11, 2009, 11:52:02 AM »

I didn't fail to consider it, or any of the other stories about behind the scenes attempts to reduce the DeFrancis (and his partners) cut. However, it's not what Magna gave as their reason. It's a third party's opinion. The horsemen are going to get their cut no matter who gets the slots licenses.

So the horsemen don't need a lawyer? I see I have to read things over more than twice to argue with you, but the lawyers opinion stands and doubly so since the paper thought it worth reporting.

The old Magna wouldn't have hesitated a second to properly turn in the fee on time and worry about trying to lobby the state for changes later.

I'm not sure about this or if I agree.

This scared Magna had to borrow the money from very unhappy shareholders of MID, and is frightened to death to even turn it over to the State.

Are they borrowing money from shareholders? 

« Last Edit: February 11, 2009, 11:54:32 AM by edwarren » Report to moderator   Logged
edwarren
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« Reply #21 on: February 11, 2009, 12:01:21 PM »

Hey ed look at this, ripped from today's headlines:

Greenlight Rips MEC Reorganization Plan

Still a dissatisfied MID/MEC bagholder.

http://news.bloodhorse.com/article/49152.htm?id=49152


Greenlight Capital of Bermuda or the Bahamas. Things don't become lost in the Bermuda Triangle for nothin, Terry.


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CLOCKERTERRY
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« Reply #22 on: February 11, 2009, 12:15:46 PM »

So the horsemen don't need a lawyer?

Where did I say that?

Quote
I see I have to read things over more than twice to argue with you, but the lawyers opinion stands and doubly so since the paper thought it worth reporting.

It stands as a horseman's opinion. No more, no less.
 
Quote
I'm not sure about this or if I agree.

Are they borrowing money from shareholders? 

Magna Ent had to borrow money from MID to finance this Maryland slots venture. Greenlight apparently thinks it's from the MID shareholders. Isn't that how publicly traded companies work?
« Last Edit: February 11, 2009, 12:20:15 PM by CLOCKERTERRY » Report to moderator   Logged
CLOCKERTERRY
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« Reply #23 on: February 11, 2009, 12:17:13 PM »

Greenlight Capital of Bermuda or the Bahamas. Things don't become lost in the Bermuda Triangle for nothin, Terry.

Where they're located has nothing to do with any subject under discussion.
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edwarren
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« Reply #24 on: February 11, 2009, 12:44:33 PM »

So you think Greenlight will prevail?
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