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Author Topic: Santa Anita  (Read 2493 times)
NIATROSS
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« Reply #25 on: January 04, 2009, 10:58:05 AM »

I'm DONE WITH SANTA ANITA!  Done, I tell ya.   I am so mad.  And you'd think I'd have good Karma with taking chocolates to the OTB, NO, no good Karma at all.

  I wore my lucky hat, I gave a voucher to a guy who needed it, I took the chocolates, I prayed before the races, I had my lucky breakfast, I was overly nice to the one guy who shoves his winning (stupid ones, too)  ) tickets in our faces, I visited a track employee in the hospital, I got up early so my husband could have HIS favorite breakfast and I LOSE.  Now getting up early was six thirty AM.  That alone should have done it.  Dang!

Praying for winners seems like the mistake you made in the equation.

Good Luck with being done with Santa Anita.
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arizonadave
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« Reply #26 on: January 04, 2009, 11:58:54 AM »

i know this thread is about the surface at SA, but could it be the horses running unsound and hurt, with drugs holding them together.
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Horse Voice
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« Reply #27 on: January 04, 2009, 12:19:20 PM »

i know this thread is about the surface at SA, but could it be the horses running unsound and hurt, with drugs holding them together.

Excellent question, which should also be examined.

There are many factors to be considered in equine breakdowns, which is why a measure of restraint is necessary before jumping to conclusions based on small data samples...unlike some of the alarmist comments found in this thread. Several here only seem to want to post when horses are breaking down, and mysteriously have nothing to say when a day's racing completes with no serious injuries. Might be the same folks who are only happy when it rains.
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pamwaggy
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« Reply #28 on: January 04, 2009, 12:32:58 PM »

Who knows what it is.   But we DO know it is.  Period.  So far, too many.  Period.
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Horse Voice
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« Reply #29 on: January 04, 2009, 12:47:43 PM »

Who knows what it is.   But we DO know it is.  Period.  So far, too many.  Period.

Pam, you say "too many...Period.", like there is some sort of acceptable number that wouldn't be "too many" -- some threshhold that, if not breached, would be of no concern.

I think one breakdown is too many. I just don't see how people flapping their arms here and blaming the track surface -- when they don't really know at all what the problem is -- helps fix anything.

The authorities are looking at the problem and checking the track every day -- which they would have done anyway without any of the posts here. That -- and the small statistical sample -- are why I immediately played devil's advocate in this thread; none of us know the real reason why those horses broke down, and blaming the surface with no real evidence is irresponsible.
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NIATROSS
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« Reply #30 on: January 04, 2009, 03:34:28 PM »

I agree that any breakdown is devastating to the sport and the owners in particular.

The only difference between now and 20-30 yrs ago IMO is the publicity focused on the subject.The studies I have read about do not show a huge increase in breakdowns compared to yrs ago.

There are going to be casualties in every occupation and in every form of life.

I would just like a NO DRUGS PERIOD in horse racing period.If that amounts to less horse racing overall so be it Other countries seem to be fine with it.I have not looked it up but I think the US is the only country where MAJOR LEAGUE RACING goes on year around..


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jrstark
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« Reply #31 on: January 04, 2009, 06:14:41 PM »

I have not looked it up but I think the US is the only country where MAJOR LEAGUE RACING goes on year around..

Australia has listed races every month of the year:
http://www.aapracing.com.au/group-races/listed/2007

Here's a month-by-month listing of UK race meetings:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/other_sports/horse_racing/calendar/default.stm

Want me to keep looking?
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APCD Dan
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« Reply #32 on: January 04, 2009, 10:40:21 PM »

Australia has listed races every month of the year:
http://www.aapracing.com.au/group-races/listed/2007

Here's a month-by-month listing of UK race meetings:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/other_sports/horse_racing/calendar/default.stm

Want me to keep looking?


Australia can run the year round, I have been there in June which is mid-winter there.  It was like an early Fall day.

The UK has fairly moderate winters and do run on the artificial surface tracks then.  Do they even run the flats on turf in the winter?

I don't think any country runs the level of racing that we have in the winter conditions faced here.  I think that was the point being made.

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jrstark
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« Reply #33 on: January 04, 2009, 11:40:55 PM »

The UK has fairly moderate winters and do run on the artificial surface tracks then.  Do they even run the flats on turf in the winter?

Those dark yellow squares on the linked page mean flats.

Is Stockholm cold enough?  They race on dirt, at night in the winter:
http://www.tabygalopp.se/indexe.html

Stockholm weather forecast:
http://www.wunderground.com/global/stations/02485.html
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NIATROSS
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« Reply #34 on: January 05, 2009, 10:43:40 AM »

Australia has listed races every month of the year:
http://www.aapracing.com.au/group-races/listed/2007

Here's a month-by-month listing of UK race meetings:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/other_sports/horse_racing/calendar/default.stm

Want me to keep looking?


I just looked at the Jan list for the UK and see more than half of the races are listed for Grand National which I believe is over the hurdles.I also did not see much if any of what I would call " MAJOR LEAGUE " racing in the UK in Jan.

I was obviously wrong about racing year around but would like to see what drugs are permitted on race day around the world.
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APCD Dan
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« Reply #35 on: January 05, 2009, 02:33:53 PM »

Those dark yellow squares on the linked page mean flats.

Is Stockholm cold enough?  They race on dirt, at night in the winter:
http://www.tabygalopp.se/indexe.html

Stockholm weather forecast:
http://www.wunderground.com/global/stations/02485.html


Sweden racing is all harness I believe.  I don't know, but maybe it is easier to run harness in bad weather conditions than thoroughbred.  Maybe the betting on Sweden tracks at Hawthorne will provide us more information.

I believe most of the winter racing in England is jumps racing on turf, with flat racing running on the artificial tracks.  When I had it on my cable, I used to watch Sky Sports TV which covered British racing.  That seemed to be what they were reporting on.
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jrstark
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« Reply #36 on: January 05, 2009, 02:42:13 PM »

Sweden racing is all harness I believe.

C'mon Dan, first Niatross can't look things up and then you can't follow links?  There's a photo right at the top, the page is even in English:
http://www.tabygalopp.se/indexe.html



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pamwaggy
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« Reply #37 on: January 05, 2009, 02:54:04 PM »

Yes, Horse Voice, one is too many, I agree with you.  And actually, I agree with your whole post. Period.
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NIATROSS
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« Reply #38 on: January 05, 2009, 04:19:56 PM »

C'mon Dan, first Niatross can't look things up and then you can't follow links?  There's a photo right at the top, the page is even in English:
http://www.tabygalopp.se/indexe.html


Thank You very much that comment.

I made a post based on what I believed and was wrong.I never said I could not look things up just chose not to.I was proven wrong,I really appreciate the jab about " can't look up things ".
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jrstark
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« Reply #39 on: January 05, 2009, 04:30:41 PM »

Thank You very much that comment.

I made a post based on what I believed and was wrong.I never said I could not look things up just chose not to.I was proven wrong,I really appreciate the jab about " can't look up things ".

I found those links with one google search.  Do you really think you can say something so easily disprovable, and state that you haven't checked it, and not expect to be called on it?

I think those political threads have made everyone sloppy as well as cranky.
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NIATROSS
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« Reply #40 on: January 05, 2009, 04:48:10 PM »

I found those links with one google search.  Do you really think you can say something so easily disprovable, and state that you haven't checked it, and not expect to be called on it?

I think those political threads have made everyone sloppy as well as cranky.


No what I would have  expected was someone (especially a person running a horse forum)to read my post in it's entirety and tell me where there is major league racing year round.Your one google search simply provided the minor league schedule with even more jump races being run than flat races.

Try just " ONE MORE GOOGLE SEARCH " and you may find there is not A single " GROUP RACE "  run in ENGLAND,FRANCE,GERMANY AND ITALY before March and none being run in Dec and Jan..

I guess your post about UK racing is up for discusson as to what is MAJOR LEAGUE RACING ?


I also did " ONE SIMPLE GOOGLE SEARCH " and saw there was NO GROUP 1 Races being run Australia in December or January.


Now I  would think that someone who went out their way to make a point about someone else's post and make a snide comment to boot would have at least checked their own facts they post to make a point.


I WILL NOW STAND BY MY ORIGINAL POST THAT NO COUNTRY IN THE WORLD RUNS MAJOR RACING YEAR AROUND LIKE THE UNITED STATES DOES.IN CASE YOU ARE WONDERING IF YOU ARE NOT EVEN RUNNING A G3 RACE IN DEC OR JAN IT IS NOT CONSIDERED MAJOR LEAGUE RACING.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2009, 05:12:11 PM by NIATROSS » Report to moderator   Logged
jrstark
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« Reply #41 on: January 05, 2009, 06:35:40 PM »

No what I would have  expected was someone (especially a person running a horse forum)to read my post in it's entirety and tell me where there is major league racing year round.Your one google search simply provided the minor league schedule with even more jump races being run than flat races.

Try just " ONE MORE GOOGLE SEARCH " and you may find there is not A single " GROUP RACE "  run in ENGLAND,FRANCE,GERMANY AND ITALY before March and none being run in Dec and Jan..

If you are searching in English, you will not find results for France, Germany, and Italy.  They also don't seem to list their stakes schedules the way we do, however I was able to find the following:

England
http://www.bhb.co.uk/goracing/racing/fixtures/1.1.1.2.1_march_lingfield.asp

Quote
The meeting reflects the growing stature of all-weather racing, which has attracted better-quality horses and top jockeys in recent years. The 2005 Winter Derby was won by John Egan on Eccentric, who then went on to win the Vodafone Rose Bowl at the Epsom Derby meeting. Other high-class horses first seen on the all-weather include Parasol, Elusive City and Romantic Liason.

There is no doubt that all-weather racing provides first-class entertainment and competitive racing – and nowhere more so than at ‘leafy’ Lingfield, which remains one of the most popular racing venues in the south of England.

According to this:
http://www.theawc.co.uk/
The winter season runs November-March, but they don't have a schedule of the races.

France:
http://www.france-galop.com/The-official-calendar.8+M52087573ab0.0.html

Quote
An official calendar defines the race days for each venue, thereby ensuring that the thrill of racing is available 365 days a year!

Germany:
http://www.galopp-sport.de/dvrWebApp/oeffentliche/news/detailView.do?contentPK=480

Quote
(rough translation) It was therefore important, on Saturday 22 November in Dortmund with the sand track season to start. So to find the 4 th Also race weekend in November in North Rhine-Westphalia instead.

In the course of the November / December 2008 and from January to early March 2009, both to the sand track racing Sunday in Dortmund offered. Overall, the winter program 2008 68 races (including Hanover on 16.11.) Advertised, with the number of possible divisions of the 73 races conducted over the past year in Dortmund and Neuss could be equalized.

Italy:

I was only able to find a 2007 schedule.  It looks like their first Group 1 race is May 13 with the last one Nov. 4.  But they only have 8 Group 1 races.  They do have listed races throughout the year.

http://www.anacpurosangue.com/noflash_Anac.htm
(you may need to click on CALENDARIO CORSE in the upper left)


Quote
I also did " ONE SIMPLE GOOGLE SEARCH " and saw there was NO GROUP 1 Races being run Australia in December or January.

Australia's seasons are reversed, December/January are during the summer.

Go here and click on the Race Dates tab, then Feature Race Dates for a downloadable spreadsheet:
http://www.australianracingboard.com.au/

The Group 1 KINGSTON TOWN CLASSIC was 12/6/08.

Australia's comparable winter months are June/July.  There are 4 Group 1s in June 09, including the Winter Stakes.

Quote
I WILL NOW STAND BY MY ORIGINAL POST THAT NO COUNTRY IN THE WORLD RUNS MAJOR RACING YEAR AROUND LIKE THE UNITED STATES DOES.IN CASE YOU ARE WONDERING IF YOU ARE NOT EVEN RUNNING A G3 RACE IN DEC OR JAN IT IS NOT CONSIDERED MAJOR LEAGUE RACING.

In 2008 there were no Grade I races in January in the US.  There was one Grade I race in December, for 2yos:
http://www.horseraceinsider.com/Horse-Racing/graded-stakes-schedule

So tell me again how the US schedule is different from other countries?
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APCD Dan
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« Reply #42 on: January 05, 2009, 07:07:41 PM »

C'mon Dan, first Niatross can't look things up and then you can't follow links?  There's a photo right at the top, the page is even in English:
http://www.tabygalopp.se/indexe.html


OK, I will plead guilty to not reading the link and discovering that there is thoroughbred racing in Sweden, and maybe even in winter.

There is one part of the article that does suggest there is not a lot of heavy duty thoroughbred racing going on all year.

"The course usually stages about 50 days racing a year with the dirt track being used exclusively until May."

That is not a lot of racing in a year.

In England, they keep referring to "all weather" racing during the winter, which means using the "all weather" (read artificial) tracks mainly, like Lingfield.

So, technically, several countries besides us go all year with their racing.  They do not just go with as heavy a schedule as we do and probably not under the conditions that we run under.  As I said before, I think that was the point being made.

We will have to ask Dave Robinson on the Derby List about the situation.
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NIATROSS
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« Reply #43 on: January 05, 2009, 09:50:26 PM »



So tell me again how the US schedule is different from other countries?

IMO if you are not running at least a G3 race every month you are not running MAJOR LEAGUE T-BRED racing all year around.All the info I have seen and what you are showing me is only Aus. is the only other country doing so.I don't consider GOLDEN GATE,PENN NATIONAL,HAWTHORNE,PHILADELPHIA,RETAMA etc. MAJOR LEAGUE RACING.

Now try and prove that other countries are as permissive as we are when it come to race day medication.That and all the extra race days we have is IMO the cause of the breakdowns in our horse population

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edwarren
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« Reply #44 on: January 06, 2009, 11:23:21 AM »

I think you hit the nail right on the head, niatross. Horses seem to race better fresh and IMO many race above their class. Pretty often its simply a matter of bad luck too, bad handling, or bad riding. Also, two year olds carry too much weight.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2009, 11:26:14 AM by edwarren » Report to moderator   Logged
NIATROSS
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« Reply #45 on: January 06, 2009, 01:53:30 PM »

I think you hit the nail right on the head, niatross. Horses seem to race better fresh and IMO many race above their class. Pretty often its simply a matter of bad luck too, bad handling, or bad riding. Also, two year olds carry too much weight.


I just think from what I have read over the yrs that the breakdowns are just getting more publicity than in the past .Just like every other facet of society people like to focus on the negative and today's media is so far advanced than the past.
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