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Author Topic: who is the greatest driver of all time ?  (Read 3571 times)
race track phil
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« on: February 14, 2006, 07:29:39 PM »

                 lets hear who and why !

                 I'm going to make an obvious choice in my mind john campbell because of money won and the drivers he has competed with all his life ! but I will also make a prediction that brian sears will break a lot of records .
                                           RTP
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RDUKE
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« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2006, 07:36:47 PM »

Brian Sears better hurry up if he is even going to come close to accomplishing what John has in the department of industry promotion.  JC has always conducted himself in a professional/repectable manner.  I can't wait until he regains he confidence and gets some live horses so that he can again be in the spot light representing this industry.  He drove a horse for us at Du Quoin and treated us as if we were trainers he drove for on the grand circuit everyday.  Very respectable!
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Dan Nance
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« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2006, 07:53:55 PM »

Walter Case, but he's not going get the respect or recognition he deserves because of his personal problems.

    If he didn't have so many personal issues in his life he would be the all time dash winner hands down. He can drive against any human being at any racetrack in the world and beat them hands down. 
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Mike Bozich
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« Reply #3 on: February 14, 2006, 08:02:12 PM »

I have to agree with Dan on this one. When Case was at Northfield, I never saw a driver more dominating then Walter. Winning 6 in one card was a bad day for him.

Nowadays David Miller is pretty tough. He made a great transition from Ohio to the Meadowlands. I also think Yannick Gingras is going to be good in a few years at the BIG M as well.
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Dan Nance
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« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2006, 08:13:08 PM »

I have to agree with Dan on this one. When Case was at Northfield, I never saw a driver more dominating then Walter. Winning 6 in one card was a bad day for him.

Nowadays David Miller is pretty tough. He made a great transition from Ohio to the Meadowlands. I also think Yannick Gingras is going to be good in a few years at the BIG M as well.

And the thing about his wins at Northfield..... he was doing it on stone crippled horses that couldn't pace in 2:02 for other guys but Case could get those steeds to go in 58 with him in the bike. How many horses did he win with that looked unplayable on paper? TONS!!!!!!!
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fineline
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« Reply #5 on: February 14, 2006, 08:30:33 PM »

Only my opinion When Case was winning all those races at Northfield it was one of the biggest cheating tracks in the country .I believe half the field was betting on him .They have really cleaned IT up lately one of the better tracks to bet .I believe John Campbell for many reasons.
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off stride
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« Reply #6 on: February 14, 2006, 09:08:21 PM »

still think its shelley goudreau


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slew
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« Reply #7 on: February 14, 2006, 09:22:26 PM »

Dave Magee "Hands" down 
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Dan Nance
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« Reply #8 on: February 14, 2006, 09:23:11 PM »

Dave Magee "Hands" down 

Right Tom!!
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Brian Collier
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« Reply #9 on: February 14, 2006, 09:57:53 PM »

                   I can't have a say in this one considering I haven't watched alot of drivers, but of course my favorite is Andy Miller.
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njhorseman
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« Reply #10 on: February 14, 2006, 11:35:25 PM »

                 lets hear who and why !

                 I'm going to make an obvious choice in my mind john campbell because of money won and the drivers he has competed with all his life ! but I will also make a prediction that brian sears will break a lot of records .
                                           RTP

Based on career accomplishments, it's John Campbell, but based on pure driving skill, it's Walter Case, Jr.
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Dan Nance
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« Reply #11 on: February 14, 2006, 11:37:55 PM »

Based on career accomplishments, it's John Campbell, but based on pure driving skill, it's Walter Case, Jr.

Let's all take note!! NJhorseman agrees with Dan Nance on Walter Case even if he's mad at me for the Jewish tactshop remark. TOUCHY....TOUCHY....TOUCHY...
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Mclock
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« Reply #12 on: February 14, 2006, 11:49:05 PM »

we had this topic a few weeks ago.....I agree and said before on pure ability walter case jr....no one won as many races as he did in so many places in so short of time with so many rats.......my personal favorites are campbell and chicagos version of campbell Mr. David Magee.....Them are two skilled drivers who can get alot out of a horse and you never hear 1 bad word about either.
                                                                         trotter
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'Tis better to be silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt.
race track phil
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« Reply #13 on: February 14, 2006, 11:54:12 PM »

                 well as good as walter case drove at other tracks and how great he did really was amazing and I agree he might have broke the record , but in all honesty he drove like shit in chicago . I put him up on my horse and he did'nt get an ounce of pace out of ritmo and he trained like a monster that week . when he came here he was contracted by carver to drive all his horses and it was'nt too long that carver changed his mind about walter driving all his stock . I guess he had problems at that time in life , he looked like a different driver at northfield ! maybe someone could check out his driving record in chicago ? but like I always say this is what makes horse racing we all see things differently at times . and who's really the best ? the guy we cash on the most ! in that respect I should switch to dave magee ! good replies .

                                         RTP
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bowserkat
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« Reply #14 on: February 14, 2006, 11:55:49 PM »

 maroon In recent times, I would agree on Campbell and Case.  Hard to figure were some of the drivers from my early years attending harness races would fit in, such as Joe Obrien, Billy Haughton, Bob Farrington, and Herve Fillion was pretty damn good in his heyday.
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BULA-MAN
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« Reply #15 on: February 15, 2006, 12:08:49 AM »

DANNY KNOX WAS THE BEST EVER IN CHICAGO.  PK
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davenchop
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« Reply #16 on: February 15, 2006, 12:11:56 AM »

walter case... come on.. he coudlnt drive anywhere but 1/2 mile tracks.... nfp....yonkers..... rinky dink tracks in maine.... he was horrible at hawthorne for carver.... sure he drove  rat at nfp but he also raced against  rat horses and a lot of ratty drivers... greg grismore at scioto downs was at about .200 and hes the leader at nfp with . 400 or so ...... thumbs down

HEY NANCE...........GREAT TOPIC.....
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BULA-MAN
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« Reply #17 on: February 15, 2006, 12:23:52 AM »

DAN KNOX WAS THE BEST EVER IN CHICAGO.  PK
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Fillmore Bear
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« Reply #18 on: February 15, 2006, 03:08:41 AM »

Heinz Wewering
Budd Doble
Pop Geers
Del Insko
Carmine Abbattielo
Earl Averill
I skipped any already mentioned.
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HANK3849
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« Reply #19 on: February 15, 2006, 04:59:32 AM »

My nomination for best driver of all time is Jim Peascock. Look back at his record and without some extremely bad breaks you would have to agree with me.
Consider the following
                              1. On most dark nights Jim was the only driver to show up ready to race.
                              2. On the nights when racing was cancelled due to weather Jim had a super
                                  line-up of top 10 yr olds ready to roll.
                              3. To show you what kind of special guy he was on many nights Jim raced under
                                  other names such as Stan Banks,Stanley Dancer,Bea Farber,Herve Filion and who
                                  can forget Father Flanagan's Boystown all around champion Whitey Marsh.
Well need I say more. Jim did all of this while also working concessions at Maywood. His job was to sort 10 day old hotdogs for shipment to other tracks around the country.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2006, 05:04:15 AM by HANK3849 » Report to moderator   Logged
njhorseman
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« Reply #20 on: February 15, 2006, 08:10:50 AM »

walter case... come on.. he coudlnt drive anywhere but 1/2 mile tracks.... nfp....yonkers..... rinky dink tracks in maine.... he was horrible at hawthorne for carver.... sure he drove  rat at nfp but he also raced against  rat horses and a lot of ratty drivers... greg grismore at scioto downs was at about .200 and hes the leader at nfp with . 400 or so ...... thumbs down

HEY NANCE...........GREAT TOPIC.....

You're wrong about Case only being a 1/2 mile track driver. When he was only in his early 20's and started driving at the Meadowlands, he immediately was in the top 5, and stayed there until he got thrown out for failing to take a drug test.

When you guys saw him in Chicago he was very deeply buried in his substance abuse problems.
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bobcat
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« Reply #21 on: February 15, 2006, 08:26:11 AM »

Phil Knox
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SUPERMAN
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« Reply #22 on: February 15, 2006, 08:52:37 AM »

                Case "NEVER" drove on a mile track like he did a half and is not in the same league of the Cambell, LaChance, Sears, Ledford, Magee, etc. Hey Ken Holliday used to win 6 a night at Nortfield so what does that say?? I am not saying Case is not a great driver because that he is but his style is more for a half mile then a mile. When he drove on a mile the results were not the same.

You do have to rate Dave Magee as one of the greatest just because he wins (and still is) on a half and a mile and was even better on the old 5/8 tracks. Winning races at all size tracks I think is how a driver should be rated. Remember Herve won most of his races on a half. Manzi is a great one and a perfect example winning races at all size tracks.

Great topic RTP, this site was starting to bore me and I was getting ready to retire.
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Big C
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« Reply #23 on: February 15, 2006, 09:42:40 AM »

Joe O' brien was the BEST! If he drove as many as Case, he'd have the record.His counterpart on the tb side would have to be Jerry Bailey.
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« Reply #24 on: February 15, 2006, 09:49:48 AM »

I would have to say Dave magee.  I think Miller and Tetrick are overrated althought they do fairly well they have good stock to drive and are much younger. Magee seems to give every horse a chance.
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nomar
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« Reply #25 on: February 15, 2006, 10:25:31 AM »

Ron Pierce must be mentioned in this thread before hes finish hes a definate top 5er
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HANK3849
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« Reply #26 on: February 15, 2006, 11:11:37 AM »

Hey, why no seconds on my nominee Jim Peacock?
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Heede
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« Reply #27 on: February 15, 2006, 11:19:07 AM »

Hey Bula Man
how is it going?

Heede
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Petro
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« Reply #28 on: February 15, 2006, 12:43:38 PM »

Vic Pegues
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race track phil
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« Reply #29 on: February 15, 2006, 01:46:48 PM »

                where are the tony morgan supporters ? not once is he mentioned , very unusual !                 RTP
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swaymi
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« Reply #30 on: February 15, 2006, 02:31:22 PM »

superman, how can you say what you say ? saying walter case was only average are you kidding me he is one of  the greatest of all time him and tony morgan would probaaly be in a dead heat!!!!!!!your are saying he couldnt drive on a big track thats a joke when he was twenty he was in the top five at the meadowlands with such greats in there prime like lachance, campbell , etc so how can you say he isnt no good on a mile if you ever watched east coast racing the meadowlands and garden state park were the only two mile ovals the rest are halfs and five eights besides vernon and do you know how hard it is to win a race at the meadowlands when eight out of ten can win every race with top drivers behind each horse not like most tracks that have only three or four good drivers in each race that is serious competition at the big m.  If i recall corect luc oullette won the title at the meadowlands about three or four years ago well about ten years ago when he was at yonkers before he made it big time a man by the name of walter case jr came off suspension and returned to yonkers it wasnt long before he took the show away from luc. I remember luc calling uncle mike to send horses from the meadowlands to yonkers and it didnt matter you just cant stop walter case , i remember him parking him the whole mile and walter some how always coming on the outside to beat him. luc is a good driver and he won alot of races at what ever track he goes but this walter case was a freak he was a natural he just knew how to keep a horse alive untill the wire. so superman you saying he couldnt drive on the mile is crazy this man could of drove on the moon!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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« Reply #31 on: February 15, 2006, 05:15:07 PM »

Wally had the most talent of any driver I have seen, and that is only for the past 30 years, so I cannot speak about what came before that....
He kept dead horses alive longer than anyone I ever watched drive..
JC is the other obvious choice for obvious reasons...
O'Donnell in his prime was as good as anybody, and though I did not get to see him in his younger years, Dave Magee has to be with the greatest of all time...
I also think that Pierce will be mentioned with the all timers when it is said and done...
There are many others that I won't mention and you guy all know, and they are all very close talent wise...
I would not put Tony Morgan in that class...
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kingofcrete
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« Reply #32 on: February 15, 2006, 07:17:54 PM »

Joe O'Brien
Bobby Williams
Billy Haughton
Bob Farrington
Shelly Goudreau
John Campbell
Bill O'Donnell
Mike Lachance
Jim Dennis
Joe Marsh Jr



There were a few I left of because I did not see enough of them
Carmine Abatiello
Herve Fillion
Buddy Gilmour

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Idealtowne
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« Reply #33 on: February 15, 2006, 07:19:06 PM »

lachance/campbell
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nomar
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« Reply #34 on: February 15, 2006, 10:27:07 PM »

am i the only guy seeing the greatness that is Ron Pierce
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mgriffin
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« Reply #35 on: February 16, 2006, 12:15:24 PM »

A great question with a lot of answers. I have watched for 15 years now. The older guys like Fillion, Haughton, I cannot comment on. From what I have seen Campbell, Case Jr., Ouellette, Magee, Morgan, & Palone would be at the top. In 5-10 years add Pierce, D.Miller, Sears to that list. Beyond that, I agree with Mike B about Gingras. A guy in his mid 20's who is tearing it up and if he keeps to task who knows how far that guy will go. Add Mark McDonald as well. He will be at the Big M sooner than you think.
Overall, I have never seen a guy better than Walter Case keeping a horse going. It's too bad he has made the choices he has.

My vote would be for John Campbell as the best ever.

Great question!

MG
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off stride
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« Reply #36 on: February 16, 2006, 12:20:18 PM »

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supernaut
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« Reply #37 on: February 16, 2006, 12:31:43 PM »

For all of the Case fans out there, how many races would he have won WITHOUT kicking the horse. For him, and only him, to be able to do that is a HUGE advantage. That's how/why a lot of those horses kept on going. And just how many fines/suspensions did he incur from kicking??And how many times were let slide??
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supernaut
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« Reply #38 on: February 16, 2006, 12:37:02 PM »

The best driver of all time was, in my opinion, Joe O'Brien. When he would catch-drive a horse, the horse would improve their time and most times win.He would generate excitement when he would drive. And this would have been in his prime, not after his hands started bothering him.
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