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Author Topic: so long 10th casino money?  (Read 3639 times)
CLOCKERTERRY
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« on: November 17, 2008, 01:39:16 PM »


Well, as predicted by someone, just as soon as it starts looking like that 10th casino money for racing might become a reality, the legislators are talking about taking it away for "better purposes".

http://www.suntimes.com/news/watchdogs/1282921,CST-NWS-watchdog17.article

 
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orioles
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« Reply #1 on: November 17, 2008, 01:58:43 PM »

Money for schools, Higher property taxes , lottery, sales tax,wasn't that all earmarked for the schools. you want more money for the state, legalize sports betting. Everyone I know is doing it illegally , think of that windfall.
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Earl Sande
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« Reply #2 on: November 17, 2008, 02:36:54 PM »

We'll never see a penny of the money thanks to our dysfunctional state government.
If Reverend Meeks thinks the state's schools need more money, he should see about having churches pay property taxes.
Also amazing how biased against racing the article was.
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Kenneth J. Chadwick
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« Reply #3 on: November 17, 2008, 02:48:09 PM »

Let's do some simple math.

I am pretty good at this stuff.

Horse Racing get $ 70,000,000. (that's million).

The state will have a deficit of $ 5,000,000,000 (that's billion) in March 2009.

Horse racing contributes to this alleged deficit to the tune of 1.4%.  (7/500).

Now where does the other 98.6% come from? I like to say from my fat a__)?

It also solidifies my argument that Rosemont gets the last license.
See all the posturing going on.

That's how I see it.

Kenneth
 
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orioles
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« Reply #4 on: November 17, 2008, 02:49:27 PM »

 WHY is racing always made out to be the evil of all evils, Most of my friends work in the industry, we are all decent tax paying people.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2008, 02:52:26 PM by orioles » Report to moderator   Logged
CLOCKERTERRY
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« Reply #5 on: November 17, 2008, 03:00:59 PM »

Money for schools, Higher property taxes , lottery, sales tax,wasn't that all earmarked for the schools. you want more money for the state, legalize sports betting. Everyone I know is doing it illegally , think of that windfall.

Unfortunately, it's against Federal law for Illinois. Only Nevada, Montana, Wyoming (? or maybe Oregon), and Delaware, all grandfathered in when the anti sports betting law was passed back in the 60's.

Besides, the politicians don't want to take credit for "expanding gambling". It's like online horse wagering: They pretend it isn't happening because it's illegal, and if they don't pass a law legalizing it, it won't happen.  screwy
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CLOCKERTERRY
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« Reply #6 on: November 17, 2008, 03:02:09 PM »

WHY is racing always made out to be the evil of all evils, Most of my friends work in the industry, we are all decent tax paying people.

I don't think they're portraying racing as evil, but more that "racing" is only a few people, while "education" is many people.
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General Powell
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« Reply #7 on: November 17, 2008, 04:19:01 PM »

I'm still waiting for the 3%---It is well past the 35 days for release of the funds--- What, pray tell, is the hold up.  Thank God for the on going problems at Hollywood Park-- It is a God send for The Thorne---(3 cents per dollar on an extra million is 30K per day)
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CLOCKERTERRY
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« Reply #8 on: November 17, 2008, 04:26:53 PM »

I'm still waiting for the 3%---It is well past the 35 days for release of the funds--- What, pray tell, is the hold up.  Thank God for the on going problems at Hollywood Park-- It is a God send for The Thorne---(3 cents per dollar on an extra million is 30K per day)

One thought I had, and maybe the reason they're holding it up until March, is waiting out the 90 days the boats had to appeal to the U.S. Supreme Court. If they hand out the money to the horsemen, and the boats ultimately won their appeal, there would be no getting the money back from the horsemen. The State would be on the hook for the $76 million.   
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bjchapin1
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« Reply #9 on: November 17, 2008, 05:16:54 PM »

Frankly, its time to raise the state income tax rate in IL. I'm even a Republican and I'm saying this. I'd prefer everyone paying a bit more than watching Hot Rod et al sell off every asset the state owns, raid the teachers' pensions, and let horsemen starve. Consider that IL has a 3% flat tax....Among border states, Indiana has a 3.4% flat tax, Wisconsin has a progressive tax up to 6.75%, Iowa has progressive rates up to 8.98%, Missouri has progressive rates up to 6%, and Kentucky has progressive rates up to 6%. Of course its political suicide for anyone to mention this. Seems fair though if you consider geographics,
« Last Edit: November 17, 2008, 05:24:56 PM by bjchapin1 » Report to moderator   Logged
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« Reply #10 on: November 17, 2008, 05:30:37 PM »

Frankly, its time to raise the state income tax rate in IL.

Won't work -- too much "underground economy" in Illinois.

That's why our sales taxes are so high here -- the only time govt. can grab a slice from some folks is when they spend it...and sooner or later, everybody has to buy something.
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Moon
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« Reply #11 on: November 17, 2008, 05:33:02 PM »

Frankly, its time to raise the state income tax rate in IL. I'm even a Republican and I'm saying this. I'd prefer everyone paying a bit more than watching Hot Rod et al sell off every asset the state owns, raid the teachers' pensions, and let horsemen starve. Consider that IL has a 3% flat tax....Among border states, Indiana has a 3.4% flat tax, Wisconsin has a progressive tax up to 6.75%, Iowa has progressive rates up to 8.98%, Missouri has progressive rates up to 6%, and Kentucky has progressive rates up to 6%. Of course its political suicide for anyone to mention this. Seems fair though if you consider geographics,

Are you saying that INDIANA pays higher taxes than we do?? How will NIATROLL live down this shame??

NIATROLL - latest member of the CIRCLE OF SHAME!

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bjchapin1
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« Reply #12 on: November 17, 2008, 05:36:24 PM »

Won't work -- too much "underground economy" in Illinois.

That's why our sales taxes are so high here -- the only time govt. can grab a slice from some folks is when they spend it...and sooner or later, everybody has to buy something.

Sales taxes are only outrageously high in Cook County, and that's because the idiots like Stroger and the rest of the Democratic machine can do whatever they damn please thanks to certain groups who vote for them regardless of performance. Collar counties can just piggyback off of increases and yet still claim that their taxes are lower than Cook.
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Kenneth J. Chadwick
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« Reply #13 on: November 17, 2008, 07:00:43 PM »

How about a novel idea.

When a business is slow, they cut expenses.

Government,( maroon maroon maroon maroon maroon) they raise taxes.


Kenneth J. Chadwick   
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Earl Sande
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« Reply #14 on: November 17, 2008, 07:29:01 PM »

Frankly, its time to raise the state income tax rate in IL.

3% is high enough for a state income tax.
The clowns in state government waste half of what they get, so actually 1 1/2% would be plenty.
The state pays to build baseball diamonds, for billboards telling truckers to drive 55, and for police roadblocks. Give that money to racing instead.
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fnlfurlong
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« Reply #15 on: November 17, 2008, 07:56:19 PM »

Are you saying that INDIANA pays higher taxes than we do?? How will NIATROLL live down this shame??

NIATROLL - latest member of the CIRCLE OF SHAME!



This was a little uncalled for in this thread.
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bjchapin1
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« Reply #16 on: November 17, 2008, 08:03:17 PM »

You forgot prisons Earle, agriculture support, the state university system, and the natural resources that the state is supposed to be supporting but isn't. But hey, that's just for starters.

My argument in a roundabout way is that increasing the state income tax would lessen the gridlock that we have in the state budget which is requiring Springfield to ignore the state parks, sell the lottery, and steal money out of gov't pensions. Also, tuition at the U of I is now at 16k a year (from 4k 8 years ago). But with all this talk of goverment needed the casino money for more 'important' causes than racing, wouldn't a revenue increase at least help racing's cause? But yes, you're right, they probably would waste most of it, and the rest would end up in Hot Rod's wife' real estate business.
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Moon
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« Reply #17 on: November 17, 2008, 08:14:32 PM »

This was a little uncalled for in this thread.

Hahahaha! You haven't been paying attention. That was lame, compared to the vile output of NIATROLL.

maroon
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Moon
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« Reply #18 on: November 17, 2008, 08:18:48 PM »

How about a novel idea.

When a business is slow, they cut expenses.

Government,( maroon maroon maroon maroon maroon) they raise taxes.


Kenneth J. Chadwick  


The problem is that Bush lowered taxes in a BAD economy. Hence, massive deficits and a giant debt that somebody has to pay for. The worst of all worlds faces Obama. And if he turns it around, you clowns will STILL be saying "Hussein!!" and Terrorist!" and "Socialist!!".

/That's just the type of people you are.
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CLOCKERTERRY
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« Reply #19 on: November 17, 2008, 08:22:08 PM »

 hijack
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fnlfurlong
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« Reply #20 on: November 17, 2008, 08:29:35 PM »

hijack

That was the point I was trying to make in my post.
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big wally
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« Reply #21 on: November 17, 2008, 08:35:18 PM »

This can not be a real surprise. Has not West Virginia cut their share to racing. If the recession last late into 2009 and state revenue plummet look for other States to do the same.

It is good to see various Horsemen Groups and Track Owners be Consistent about Industry Jobs at 40,000. Last year they were throwing out numbers like 30,000, 40,000 and 50,000.
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medic_61353
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« Reply #22 on: November 17, 2008, 08:38:34 PM »

How about giving Chicago schools the casino money so they can invest in education needs like swimming lessons and proper use of paddle boats, and give the race tracks electronic gaming and slots.
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Moon
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« Reply #23 on: November 17, 2008, 08:42:09 PM »

How about just giving Chicago a casino already?

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Earl Sande
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« Reply #24 on: November 17, 2008, 09:03:58 PM »

You forgot prisons Earle, agriculture support, the state university system, and the natural resources that the state is supposed to be supporting but isn't. But hey, that's just for starters.

My argument in a roundabout way is that increasing the state income tax would lessen the gridlock that we have in the state budget which is requiring Springfield to ignore the state parks, sell the lottery, and steal money out of gov't pensions. Also, tuition at the U of I is now at 16k a year (from 4k 8 years ago). But with all this talk of goverment needed the casino money for more 'important' causes than racing, wouldn't a revenue increase at least help racing's cause? But yes, you're right, they probably would waste most of it, and the rest would end up in Hot Rod's wife' real estate business.

I didn't forget prisons, I'm fully aware of what a great suporter this state is of the law enforcement/court/prison industrial complex. I'll stick with my belief that we could get by with about half as much. Am also aware of how DNR, state parks and some other worthy things have been gutted.
Until a few months ago I had long supported the idea of a state income tax at 3% for income less than $75,000 per return, 4% from $75,000 to $150,000, 5% from $150G-$250G and 6% over $250G. But after watching Blago, Madigan, the holy Reverend Meeks and the rest of the jackoffs at work, I've just about become an anarchist!
Both racing and the entire state are in dire straights due to these incompetent fools. I don't see a positive outcome for either.
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Kenneth J. Chadwick
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« Reply #25 on: November 18, 2008, 08:34:14 AM »

Anytime in IL you raise taxes, it becomes a rat hole.

What happened to all that money when you got the lottery?
Wasn't it to go for education?
Say goodbye.


Kenneth

 
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bjchapin1
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« Reply #26 on: November 18, 2008, 10:10:54 AM »

Continuing Terry's post from yesterday, the SunTimes's lead editorial today:

http://www.suntimes.com/news/commentary/1284593,CST-EDT-edit18a.article
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Earl Sande
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« Reply #27 on: November 18, 2008, 10:15:03 AM »

Why does the Sun-Times have such a hard-on against the racing industry?
That newspaper's level of stupidity has just about eclipsed that of the Tribune!
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Kenneth J. Chadwick
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« Reply #28 on: November 18, 2008, 10:19:38 AM »

Everytime I hear "Why shouldn't we fund education."

Another rat hole.

Did you ever hear, "How about vouchers?"

Who is beholding to who?

It is always shifting money.

How about the roads?

All that money that is collected from the motorist.

How about that money for education, law enforcement etc., etc., etc.


Kenneth 
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« Reply #29 on: November 18, 2008, 11:37:48 AM »

I'm still waiting for the 3%---It is well past the 35 days for release of the funds--- What, pray tell, is the hold up.  Thank God for the on going problems at Hollywood Park-- It is a God send for The Thorne---(3 cents per dollar on an extra million is 30K per day)

Joe,
After taxes and the split the 'Thorne only gets almost 1-1/5% which is only 15k per day.
(do you see all the little hands outstretched?? LOL)
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« Reply #30 on: November 18, 2008, 12:25:10 PM »

Continuing Terry's post from yesterday, the SunTimes's lead editorial today:

http://www.suntimes.com/news/commentary/1284593,CST-EDT-edit18a.article

We are easy targets even in good times.  Looking at us from the outside, people find us disgusting, greedy, animal abusers.  Of course, that description is not too far from the truth.  Hard to get hand-outs under these conditions.
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CLOCKERTERRY
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« Reply #31 on: November 18, 2008, 12:30:31 PM »

Why does the Sun-Times have such a hard-on against the racing industry?
That newspaper's level of stupidity has just about eclipsed that of the Tribune!

Maybe Jim O'Donnell is behind it.  sneaky
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« Reply #32 on: November 18, 2008, 12:45:58 PM »

Your editorial about Horseracing Tracks left out some important information. Dunkin Donuts and Starbucks are not regulated by the State of Illinois. They set their hours of operation, location and how best to serve their customers. Horse racing is told, by the State of Illinois, when to race, what can race and at what location. Horse racing has asked for years to have slot machines at their facilities to boost revenues, but the State always says no. Maybe you could have put in your editorial how many millions go to Illinois law makers from the casinos.

Sent to the Sun Times editorial department. Anxiously waiting for reply.
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CLOCKERTERRY
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« Reply #33 on: November 18, 2008, 12:55:54 PM »

Well, one good thing about the current bad times - the State will need more money, and maybe the tracks will get their own slots.
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CLOCKERTERRY
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« Reply #34 on: November 18, 2008, 12:57:48 PM »

Your editorial about Horseracing Tracks left out some important information. Dunkin Donuts and Starbucks are not regulated by the State of Illinois. They set their hours of operation, location and how best to serve their customers. Horse racing is told, by the State of Illinois, when to race, what can race and at what location. Horse racing has asked for years to have slot machines at their facilities to boost revenues, but the State always says no. Maybe you could have put in your editorial how many millions go to Illinois law makers from the casinos.

Sent to the Sun Times editorial department. Anxiously waiting for reply.

What someone really needs to point out is the deal that was made back in 1999 - racing drops its opposition to dockside for the boats, in return for more revenue for racing. The State has realized $100's million more revenue from that. But of course, that's ancient history.
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Earl Sande
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« Reply #35 on: November 18, 2008, 02:36:51 PM »

Maybe Jim O'Donnell is behind it.  sneaky

LMFAO, Terry! With so many cuts in the newpaper business, they probably do have O'Donnell running the editorial page.
 beer
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« Reply #36 on: November 18, 2008, 02:48:13 PM »

What someone really needs to point out is the deal that was made back in 1999 - racing drops its opposition to dockside for the boats, in return for more revenue for racing. The State has realized $100's million more revenue from that. But of course, that's ancient history.

Was that the deal that got the tracks property tax breaks?  If it was, then something was received from it, although nothing for the horsemen.

Janine is posting more and more anti-racing news articles.  It looks like the newspapers have found a scapegoat for the state's financial problems:  us!  Also Jim Edgar, about the only Governor to survive scandals, is being tied in with us because of his support for racing.  Maybe this will get him tossed in jail too.
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CLOCKERTERRY
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« Reply #37 on: November 18, 2008, 02:58:42 PM »

Was that the deal that got the tracks property tax breaks?  If it was, then something was received from it, although nothing for the horsemen.

Yes, many taxes were lowered. That's what gave racing the $40 million per year break I have been talking about for a long time. It did help the horsemen, too. The parimutuel tax went down to what, 1.5%? That made more money left of the takeout to split between tracks and horsemen. The tracks also got some other tax breaks, property or something, and I think uncashed mutuels were taken away from the State and directed back to tracks and horsemen. Jim C. would know all the details of what breaks were given in that bill besides casino money and the now unfunded recapture mandate.

Quote
Janine is posting more and more anti-racing news articles.  It looks like the newspapers have found a scapegoat for the state's financial problems:  us!  Also Jim Edgar, about the only Governor to survive scandals, is being tied in with us because of his support for racing.  Maybe this will get him tossed in jail too.

Giant gifts and welfare to racing were plausible when times were good there at the beginning of the Ryan administration. Given what's happened since then, and the current economic climate, it's exactly what some predicted a long time ago: Politicians start casting about for money that would be "better spent".
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« Reply #38 on: November 18, 2008, 07:01:39 PM »

The tracks now get the "splits" money for whatever they want to use it for. Years ago the state held the money and the tracks had to "apply" for it by performing Capital Improvements and proving that the work was ok'ed by the state and that it was in fact completed.

The "splits" money is the cents left over on every bet that isn't paid out to the betters. It adds up to sometimes hundreds of thousands per year. This is why you never see a pay-out for amounts like $43.24...you would see a payout of $43.20. The .04 cents goes into the kitty. Think in a year how much that adds up to.
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CLOCKERTERRY
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« Reply #39 on: November 18, 2008, 09:11:32 PM »

The tracks now get the "splits" money for whatever they want to use it for. Years ago the state held the money and the tracks had to "apply" for it by performing Capital Improvements and proving that the work was ok'ed by the state and that it was in fact completed.

The "splits" money is the cents left over on every bet that isn't paid out to the betters. It adds up to sometimes hundreds of thousands per year. This is why you never see a pay-out for amounts like $43.24...you would see a payout of $43.20. The .04 cents goes into the kitty. Think in a year how much that adds up to.

Us regular folk who might wear an occasional python boot call that "breakage", I think.

And, the exact amount is reported by the IRB each year. It's in the millions.
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Moon
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« Reply #40 on: November 18, 2008, 09:27:58 PM »

You need to trade in your python boots for some Prada shoes. Or Massimo, if the Prada's are a little pricey!

/Leave the Gucci's for the Pope.
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medic_61353
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« Reply #41 on: November 19, 2008, 03:24:57 PM »

From today's Sun Times

http://www.suntimes.com/news/commentary/letters/1286922,CST-EDT-vox19a.article
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