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Author Topic: Nice call Terry - Damn it, you're right again!  (Read 2309 times)
pjcleve
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« on: February 08, 2006, 08:05:04 PM »

Clockerterry quote:

"Here we are again, right where we have always ended up with Pete, going back 10 years to the Derby List, arguing things that no one said.................. If we wanted to argue current daily attendence we'd trot out tracks like Santa Anita that truly kick Arlington's butt."

Santa Anita Wednesday 2/8/06 - clear, 81 degrees. Attendance......... tah, dahhhhhhhhh...... 5,610.

I didn't put up Sunday's attendance of 6,615 cause you'd blame it on the Super Bowl.

Kudos on your wisdumb Nostrodamus. (But then you already knew that, didn't you.)

Pete
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CLOCKERTERRY
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« Reply #1 on: February 08, 2006, 08:47:28 PM »

Clockerterry quote:

"Here we are again, right where we have always ended up with Pete, going back 10 years to the Derby List, arguing things that no one said.................. If we wanted to argue current daily attendence we'd trot out tracks like Santa Anita that truly kick Arlington's butt."

Santa Anita Wednesday 2/8/06 - clear, 81 degrees. Attendance......... tah, dahhhhhhhhh...... 5,610.

I didn't put up Sunday's attendance of 6,615 cause you'd blame it on the Super Bowl.

Kudos on your wisdumb Nostrodamus. (But then you already knew that, didn't you.)

What is that supposed to mean? Do you have some Arlington Wednesday attendance figures to compare? Saturday SA had over 20,000. How many times did Arlington get that the whole season? Three times, maybe?

So far this year, thanks to good weather, Santa Anita has been averaging almost 10,500 per day. What was that average number you had for Arlington last season? 7,607, or something like that? If you had to put an inequality operator between 10,500 and 7,607, which would be "greater"?
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big wally
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« Reply #2 on: February 08, 2006, 09:10:45 PM »

To be fair Hawhtorne in the summer of 1999 averaged around 2800 and would most likely be less now. Where is that Guy who touts New Jersey and the great racing in that state?  He could explain..
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CLOCKERTERRY
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« Reply #3 on: February 08, 2006, 09:43:16 PM »

To be fair Hawhtorne in the summer of 1999 averaged around 2800 and would most likely be less now. Where is that Guy who touts New Jersey and the great racing in that state?  He could explain..

It's a long story big wally, too long to recount, but Hawthorne isn't really part of this "debate".
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pjcleve
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« Reply #4 on: February 09, 2006, 07:55:25 PM »

ClockerTerry quotes:

"If we wanted to argue current daily attendence we'd trot out tracks like Santa Anita that truly kick Arlington's butt." and   "So far this year, thanks to good weather, Santa Anita has been averaging almost 10,500 per day. What was that average number you had for Arlington last season? 7,607, or something like that? If you had to put an inequality operator between 10,500 and 7,607, which would be "greater"?"

Santa Anita Thursday, Clear 84 degrees. Attendance................ tah dahhhhhh............3,894.

Hell even Hawthore must've done better than that. You were the one that said SA KICKED AP's ASS. Now you've reduced it to which is greater. It must all be on Saturday's attendance because they sure aren't doing it during the week. Maybe others on this list suck up your BS, but I don't. Your specialty is back-and-fill ,wordsmithing and bullshit - and its oozing out of all of your orifices.

Good call NostroDumbAss.

Pete
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CLOCKERTERRY
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« Reply #5 on: February 09, 2006, 10:24:27 PM »

Santa Anita Thursday, Clear 84 degrees. Attendance................ tah dahhhhhh............3,894.

Once again, Pete, you fail to give us any indication what a Thursday attendance figure at Arlington might have been. I remember it was pretty grim when I was out there on Thursdays. Arlington's real attendance also came on weekends, or do you really believe there were 7,607 people there each and every day of the meet?

You are comparing apples to nothing. All you have is Arlington's daily average from last year, which means absolutely nothing until the end of this Santa Anita meet when we can compare the two. If Santa Anita rings in less than 7,607 I was wrong. The jury is out until then. I think it was around 9,000 last year though, and that was a meet hammered by rain. This year should be better.

You know, speaking of "back-and-fill ,wordsmithing and bullshit", didn't some genius recently write this, "Get serious Terry and get your facts straight. With the exception of the Festival of racing, Oaklawn is nothing special. It's currently averaging less than 8K daily on weekdays running 4 days a week.". Now look at that, would you, this wordsmith conveniently denigrates only the weekday attendance - which, by the way, is STILL more than Arlington's average daily over the whole year - and conveniently neglects to mention that total average daily attendance for 2005 was 12,842, which TRULY kick's AP butt. I wonder who tried to pull that "wordsmithing and bullshit" off?
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CLOCKERTERRY
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« Reply #6 on: February 09, 2006, 10:41:18 PM »

Santa Anita attendance last year was nearer 8,000 in the meet that was decimated by rain. The year before it had been about 9,000. We'll see how it comes in this year, when this year is done.
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David
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« Reply #7 on: February 10, 2006, 12:01:08 AM »

Arlington does do pretty good group sales on Wednesday and Thursday, most stay up in the rooms up there, I think that is where they are able to boost attendance and prevent the place from being a complete ghost town on Wed/Thurs. I guess what I'm trying to say is that if, and that is a big if, they have 5,000 on a Wednesday - it seems like much less as most only walk through the regular portion of the track to get up to the party rooms and such or come down for 1 race with thier name tags still on from whatever outing they are attending.

As far as "retail" customers, I don't see much there except the regular track goers, 80 percent of which would be at Hawthorne if that was open - the ones who wouldn't be at Hawthorne are replaced by the Hawthornites who won't make the trip to AP - at least the way I see it.
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CLOCKERTERRY
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« Reply #8 on: February 10, 2006, 07:30:20 AM »

Arlington does do pretty good group sales on Wednesday and Thursday, most stay up in the rooms up there, I think that is where they are able to boost attendance and prevent the place from being a complete ghost town on Wed/Thurs. I guess what I'm trying to say is that if, and that is a big if, they have 5,000 on a Wednesday - it seems like much less as most only walk through the regular portion of the track to get up to the party rooms and such or come down for 1 race with thier name tags still on from whatever outing they are attending.

I remember once this summer or last I posted something here about being out there on a Wednesday or Thursday, and how small the crowd was, and my estimate that if there was more than 800 I would be surprised. We were assured, 2nd hand, there had been at least 2,000 there that day. Don't take those numbers as gospel as I'm remembering and the original posts are gone, but it was something along those lines. Perhaps the people in the group areas account for my undercount.

Quote
As far as "retail" customers, I don't see much there except the regular track goers, 80 percent of which would be at Hawthorne if that was open - the ones who wouldn't be at Hawthorne are replaced by the Hawthornites who won't make the trip to AP - at least the way I see it.

Wednesdays you do get the senior citizens who come and sit in the tables at top of the apron, or at 1st floor tables throughout the plant. This year seemed like a lot less of those than years past, though I wasn't there that many times. I'd estimate only a few hundred of these, though.

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big wally
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« Reply #9 on: February 10, 2006, 07:17:21 PM »

http://www.drf.com/news/article/72139.html

Pjcleave-bad timing
« Last Edit: February 10, 2006, 11:54:03 PM by jrstark » Report to moderator   Logged
CLOCKERTERRY
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« Reply #10 on: February 10, 2006, 08:30:38 PM »


big wally I don't think things like purses and betting matter in this erudite discussion, which started out as "visions of the future of racing", but has somehow devolved into "who has better attendance, Santa Anita or Arlington". I think it's because attendance is the main thing to brag about at Arlington, as evidenced by it headlining the last two years' meet end press releases, but that is just a guess on my part. Besides, Santa Anita was bound to go up this year, after so many rainy days last year. Unless it had rained a lot again, of course.

Anyhow, another light day at Santa Anita, 4,625, if you can believe that. That brings the total for the week so far up to just 14,129, and means they will have to average 11,953 over the weekend to beat Arlington's meet average of 7,607 x 5 = 38,035. CAN THEY DO IT ? ? ? ? ? ? The whole forum is on pins and needles.  GO SANTA ANITA, GO!!! 

Today's fun facts.
Attendance at 2005 Arlington Million: 28,312
Attendance at 2005 Arkansas Derby: 65,000+ *
Little noticed fact from ITHA press release I posted the other day: Purses up at Haw Fall '05

* I was there, and they might be fibbing about that number a bit.
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pjcleve
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« Reply #11 on: February 10, 2006, 09:04:44 PM »

Feel free to jump on to Terry's BS wagon Big W. The DRF article said nothing about attendance, it said their business was up - can you spell offtrack wagering, when not much else is running. I got into this tar pit of BS when Terry started by bashing AP's "poor attendance" and their closing down 1/2 of their grandstand during the week - as if they were unique in having low attendance. He proclaimed SA as a track that kicks AP's butt on attendance, not me. Again, he's full of it. ALL tracks are in decline, and frankly AP is holding up rather well on attendance compared to most. I can tell you this, having gone to AP between 70 - 90 times during each meet for the last 10+ years, they NEVER had a Friday attendance like SA's today. Frankly I think they beat SA's crowd every day but Sat. since I've been tracking it. Friday is AP's second best day to Sunday during their meet and they get at least 10K-12K on Friday. So what was SA's crowd today Muckchump? 

Friday 2/10 Santa Anita clear, 78 degrees, Attendance .................... 4,625. Good call Nostrudumdassss!

And of course if AP were running only 8 races/day during the week you'd be pissing all over them. Your great SA can't fill a 9 race card during the week.
 
Terry, feel free to come up with another one of your witty, but useless counters. It may work for others on this site, but not me. I get a better debate from my receptionist than your grand pontifications.

Pete   
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CLOCKERTERRY
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« Reply #12 on: February 10, 2006, 09:18:36 PM »

Terry, feel free to come up with another one of your witty, but useless counters. It may work for others on this site, but not me. I get a better debate from my receptionist than your grand pontifications.

And yet, you keep posting.

Quote
I can tell you this, having gone to AP between 70 - 90 times during each meet for the last 10+ years, they NEVER had a Friday attendance like SA's today.

So prove it with any Arlington Friday attendance figure from the last 10 years or so. One we can look up ourselves to verify.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2006, 09:22:37 PM by CLOCKERTERRY » Report to moderator   Logged
nwaryas
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« Reply #13 on: February 10, 2006, 09:20:46 PM »

Half the time, Terry is right but not with John Frank posts.
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CLOCKERTERRY
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« Reply #14 on: February 10, 2006, 09:23:44 PM »

Half the time, Terry is right

Thanks Nick. That's heady praise, considering the sheer number of posts I post.
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big wally
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« Reply #15 on: February 10, 2006, 09:49:58 PM »

Well, Pete I thought it was funny that you were bashing SA and then DRF article came out. I really could care less about SA. I know CT is an AP basher for reasons unknown to me but really what tracks nowadays draw during the week (Saratoga) thats it (Del Mar?). Your points are useless SA will outdraw AP, your gonna lose this argument. If CT wants to bash AP let him, who cares. AP for the product they have actually done a fine job getting people out ot the track especially on Sundays.
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CLOCKERTERRY
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« Reply #16 on: February 10, 2006, 09:58:23 PM »

I know CT is an AP basher for reasons unknown to me

I prefer to think of it as a check and or balance against the evil empire of Arlington cheerleaders in tutus like Pete.

Arlington the track is nice. Nothing bad to say about it. Arlington concession prices a bit on the ... deranged ... side. Arlington racing not nearly on a par with the facility, and hardly more than one step above Hawthorne, despite what some who post here would like you to believe. Arlington attendance? Who really cares, unless some goofball wants to make a big deal out of it. Arlington customer service for the "regular joe" player, not much.

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big wally
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« Reply #17 on: February 10, 2006, 10:20:39 PM »

About concession prices-- It had to be one of the last Saturdays of the meet and some Arlinton Suits (management) were in the starting gate area for a Q&A session. The question about these prices came up( it was from a senior citizen). They basically said we are in business and we need to make a profit. They went on to say we are not of line with  our concessions  compared to the Cubs or Sox and our $6 admission is cheap compared to the Cubs and Sox. The Senior Citizen replied cant you discount items on the weekdays or special prices to the Seniors. Management said we have tried this at does not help our attendence or bottom line. "Absolutley True"

I truly love that facility but I have serious reservations about Mangement ever since the new Ap was built.
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RunSuckerRun
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« Reply #18 on: February 10, 2006, 10:34:31 PM »

Big Wally writes:
Quote
They [Arlington] went on to say we are not of line with  our concessions  compared to the Cubs or Sox and our $6 admission is cheap compared to the Cubs and Sox.

If they think their admission price is cheap compared to the Cubs or sox, they're breathing too much of their own exhaust.  $6 admission plus almost that much for a reserved seat?  I can get a seat at New Comisky for about that much for a lot more entertainment.  BTW, the food at Comisky blows away anything you can get at AP.

And since Chicago racing is more like AAA or AA baseball, maybe they should compare their prices to the Schaumburg Flyers or Kane County Cougars.

When AP has $40K+ MSW races and $75K overnight handicaps like New York, Kentucky and California, I'll consider IL racing in the major leagues.  Cripes, we're behind New Jersey at the moment!  BiggestAl will humiliate me over this!

-RSR
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CLOCKERTERRY
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« Reply #19 on: February 10, 2006, 11:06:55 PM »

And since Chicago racing is more like AAA or AA baseball, maybe they should compare their prices to the Schaumburg Flyers or Kane County Cougars.

There's the point. The White Sox are major league baseball, and the Cubs are only a little behind. When you go to Comiskey or Wrigley you see major league sporting product. When you go to Kane County you see some bumbling baseball, and you get reduced concession prices to go along with it.

Nothing in regular concessions at Comiskey compares to that $9 sandwich in the food court at AP. The top item at Comiskey is about $6.25, for a corned beef sandwich with chips and pickle. That Arlington thing even blows away the expensive crap at the United Center. You have to go up to Stadium Club at Comiskey to find a near $9 sandwich, and it's a heck of a lot better than AP food court.

On the other hand, Arlington the facility IS a major league park, and the admission is cheap compared to baseball. Of course, Arlington isn't paying any big league athlete salaries, either.
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big wally
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« Reply #20 on: February 11, 2006, 08:10:41 AM »

RSR, if Illinois had the same rules as New Jersey the averages here would much better. NJ runs six months a year and has many three days week and I think Phone Betting.

We run over ten months, five days a week. NJ horseman have received a lot of help from the state the last few years we got none. As of now Illinois can not compete NJ subsidized product
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robertv
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« Reply #21 on: February 11, 2006, 01:15:53 PM »

AP for the product they have actually done a fine job getting people out ot the track especially on Sundays.
Quote

There's the point. The White Sox are major league baseball, and the Cubs are only a little behind.

Excellent points Wally, let us not forget - Fridays are also huge at Arlington. I'm there almost every Friday in
the summer and the place is always packed.

ClockerTerry you are the clever one aren't you?  Smiley  As a lifelong Cub fan I think you will see vast improvement
from the team this upcoming season. Also as much as I don't care for Dusty Baker at least he's not some far-left
communist (H.Chavez) leaning sympothizer like Ozzie Guillen. How dare he snub President Bush.... Mayor Daley
finally makes an arguement that makes sense.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2006, 05:21:01 PM by robertv » Report to moderator   Logged
CLOCKERTERRY
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« Reply #22 on: February 11, 2006, 07:54:08 PM »

Today's news: 11,291. Wow. Not quite what we needed, but it did kick Arlington's 7,607 that they get there every single day ass, so for today Pete is the donkey.

They have so many grade I's out there, I guess, that to those fans it's no big deal. Yawn. Another Grade I horse race.

WHAT WILL TOMORROW BRING? It's Sunday, but it's also San Vicente day, and a chance to see a horse named Too Much Bling.
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CLOCKERTERRY
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« Reply #23 on: February 11, 2006, 08:03:27 PM »

As a lifelong Cub fan I think you will see vast improvement

They finished 79-83 in 2005. I would hope so.

Quote
Dusty Baker at least he's not some far-left communist (H.Chavez) leaning sympothizer like Ozzie Guillen. How dare he snub President Bush....

I didn't buy a paper today, but I saw the headlines of the Scum Slimes in a machine outside the restaurant where we were meeting to divvy up our 2006 Sox season tix, and it said Ozzie said "no snub". That's enough for me.

Don't worry robertv, baseball is fixed. The Red Sox won in 2004, the White Sox in 2005, and in 2006 you will see the Cubs do something. Mark my words, they will do something.
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pjcleve
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« Reply #24 on: February 11, 2006, 09:09:44 PM »

Terry quote:

"Today's news: 11,291. Wow. Not quite what we needed, but it did kick Arlington's 7,607 that they get there every single day ass, so for today Pete is the donkey."

You haven't had enough huh? What's your point? That math isn't one of your best suits? I'm done with this thread and humoring you. Keep on spewing your BS, I won't be checking this thread anymore to set you straight.

Pete
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