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Author Topic: Curlin faithful are pretty quiet  (Read 3571 times)
Earl Sande
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« Reply #25 on: September 02, 2008, 11:05:31 AM »

Big Brown has accomplished far more as a 3 year old than Curlin did.

Including finishing eased in the Belmont. Even though it involved one of the worst rides in the history of the sport, Curlin certainly had no blots like that on his record!

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Horse Voice
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« Reply #26 on: September 02, 2008, 11:23:36 AM »

Including finishing eased in the Belmont. Even though it involved one of the worst rides in the history of the sport, Curlin certainly had no blots like that on his record!

If "a win is a win", then doesn't it follow that "a loss is a loss"?

Who cares if Curlin lost the Belmont by a nose, or if Big Brown was eased in the Belmont? Bottom line: they both lost the Belmont.

Only one of them lost their shot at the Triple Crown there, though. The other one never really had a shot at it.

And only one of them got this far in their careers with only 1 lifetime loss.

Big Brown bashers can continue to look at the "hole"; I'll continue to see the entire doughnut.
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mel4600
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« Reply #27 on: September 02, 2008, 01:45:19 PM »

Your house is in order?? HUH?
You are also not always positive on this board. Kinda like calling the kettle black -eh?
You are far more negative about Arlington and RLD than I am of Hawthorne.
I still like Hawthorne and beleive that Illinois needs Hawthorne in the racing picture in a big way, but over the last few years they have done a lot of things that have hurt their product. I'm not making this stuff up due to a secret vendetta - it's all factual.
As far as having a "snootfull" prior to posting - I was sober last night when I posted and am now too. I was actually trying to be funny, but you got your *** in a bind as usual whenever I post. You're just another pathetic stalker that you accuse so many others of being towards you.

Beau,

Don't bother with him, you got to much class! I'll do the dirty work. Horse Voice is the first jackass I met who claimed to know everything about horses.  beer
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glahn
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« Reply #28 on: September 02, 2008, 03:25:59 PM »

Nonsense. Big Brown is a lock for 3 year old Champion.

If Colonel John wins the Classic, I don't think Big Brown is a "lock."
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Horse Voice
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« Reply #29 on: September 02, 2008, 04:11:13 PM »

Horse Voice is the first jackass I met who claimed to know everything about horses.  beer

You're in a trolling mood today, aren't you Mel? You usually come running to defend Steve -- is Beau your son, too? I doubt it -- Beau seems to be able to take care of himself.

Show me where I made a claim that I know everything about horses, and I'll change my profile to say "jackass" under my forum name; if you can't do that, you change your profile to say "jackass" under your forum name. Deal?

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Horse Voice
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« Reply #30 on: September 02, 2008, 04:37:04 PM »

If Colonel John wins the Classic, I don't think Big Brown is a "lock."

Assuming no other starts, if CJ wins the Classic, he would have:

10 starts: 6 wins (3 Grade I's), 2 seconds and 1 third...and $5 million in earnings

to Big Brown's *current* record:

7 starts: 6 wins (4 Grade I's), and $3.3 million in earnings

So, in the minds of the Eclipse voters, SA Derby win + Travers win + BC Classic win would have to be greater than Fla. Derby win + Ky. Derby win + Preakness win + Haskell win.

I don't think it's enough -- especially if Curlin doesn't run in the Classic per current plan.

(Now, if Big Brown and Curlin run in the Classic, and Colonel John still wins? Hmm...very interesting! Those Eclipse voters are going to actually going to have to think about their votes.)
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mel4600
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« Reply #31 on: September 02, 2008, 05:01:56 PM »

You're in a trolling mood today, aren't you Mel? You usually come running to defend Steve -- is Beau your son, too? I doubt it -- Beau seems to be able to take care of himself.


Kind of like you going on the harness side defending Moon, Knowitall, and Clockerterry (your alter ego).  Wink
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glahn
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« Reply #32 on: September 02, 2008, 05:13:12 PM »

Assuming no other starts, if CJ wins the Classic, he would have:

10 starts: 6 wins (3 Grade I's), 2 seconds and 1 third...and $5 million in earnings

to Big Brown's *current* record:

7 starts: 6 wins (4 Grade I's), and $3.3 million in earnings

So, in the minds of the Eclipse voters, SA Derby win + Travers win + BC Classic win would have to be greater than Fla. Derby win + Ky. Derby win + Preakness win + Haskell win.

I don't think it's enough -- especially if Curlin doesn't run in the Classic per current plan.

(Now, if Big Brown and Curlin run in the Classic, and Colonel John still wins? Hmm...very interesting! Those Eclipse voters are going to actually going to have to think about their votes.)

Big Brown made 7 starts this year? Colonel John made 10 starts this year?! Throwback to the old days when horses actually ran.

P.S. Mel, who is "Knowitall?"
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Horse Voice
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« Reply #33 on: September 02, 2008, 05:25:29 PM »

Kind of like you going on the harness side defending Moon, Knowitall, and Clockerterry (your alter ego).  Wink

No, not like that at all. I wasn't there to defend anybody. I was adding my own content. I even suggested that the whole thing with Sarah Palin's daughter be dropped. Do you read for comprehension, or do you just open a window and start posting dreck?
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mel4600
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« Reply #34 on: September 02, 2008, 05:29:02 PM »

Big Brown made 7 starts this year? Colonel John made 10 starts this year?! Throwback to the old days when horses actually ran.

P.S. Mel, who is "Knowitall?"

He is a guy named Swoodall who posts on the harness side. I have to admit, you have been to the point and posting horse info and plays (usually good) along with solid reasoning and my opinion of you has changed drastically to the plus side.
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Horse Voice
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« Reply #35 on: September 02, 2008, 05:30:52 PM »

Big Brown made 7 starts this year? Colonel John made 10 starts this year?! Throwback to the old days when horses actually ran.

I didn't say that. I posted their lifetime records for comparison, because that's all I have at the moment.

In any case, it's a minor issue: post their 3 year old stats only, and CJ might look marginally better than his lifetime box -- but still not better than Big Brown.
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Horse Voice
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« Reply #36 on: September 02, 2008, 05:32:18 PM »

I have to admit, you have been to the point and posting horse info and plays (usually good) along with solid reasoning and my opinion of you has changed drastically to the plus side.

Hey, "Mel, the Shit-Stirrer" thinks you're just swell.

That, and a quarter...
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glahn
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« Reply #37 on: September 02, 2008, 05:37:43 PM »

I didn't say that. I posted their lifetime records for comparison, because that's all I have at the moment.

In any case, it's a minor issue: post their 3 year old stats only, and CJ might look marginally better than his lifetime box -- but still not better than Big Brown.

2yo season plays no part in determining 3yo honors. You're right, he doesn't look better than Big Brown. But if he wins the Classic I think it's a close call. That said, I don't think he'll win the Classic. But then again, I couldn't understand why he was 4-1 and not 12-1 in the Travers.
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mel4600
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« Reply #38 on: September 02, 2008, 05:50:47 PM »

No, not like that at all. I wasn't there to defend anybody. I was adding my own content. I even suggested that the whole thing with Sarah Palin's daughter be dropped. Do you read for comprehension, or do you just open a window and start posting dreck?

Is that so? You are a piece of work! Go read your posts again #3394 & #3405 and sell your shit to whoever is buying.  Wink
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mel4600
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« Reply #39 on: September 02, 2008, 05:54:40 PM »

Hey, "Mel, the Shit-Stirrer" thinks you're just swell.

That, and a quarter...

You can say what you want, Glahn has stuck to racing and provided good insight and winners. You on the other hand have been arguing with everyone including him. Go have a stiff drink and unwind.  beer
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Horse Voice
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« Reply #40 on: September 02, 2008, 10:03:52 PM »

Is that so? You are a piece of work! Go read your posts again #3394 & #3405 and sell your shit to whoever is buying.  Wink

After a lengthly dig, I found those posts -- jeez, Mel, you must have a lot of time on your hands to go back that many pages into that thread.

It appears that I was right about your comprehension problem, Mel -- in both of those posts, I was responding to Steve. I wasn't defending any other poster.

It seems that the indices to your cross-references database of forum poster insults, slights, errors, lies, ad hominem attacks, and third-party assaults is corrupted, and needs to be rebuilt from scratch. Here's a performance tip -- delete all of the entries for your and Steve's posts first, and you ought to pick up about a 9000% improvement in processing speed and disk usage after the rebuild.
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CLOCKERTERRY
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« Reply #41 on: September 02, 2008, 10:25:43 PM »

 thumbs down

It was a good thread for awhile.
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mel4600
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« Reply #42 on: September 03, 2008, 08:18:35 AM »


It appears that I was right about your comprehension problem, Mel -- in both of those posts, I was responding to Steve. I wasn't defending any other poster.


LoL, If you say so. Now go back and talk to your alter ego, I find it very amusing!  Wink
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Horse Voice
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« Reply #43 on: September 03, 2008, 09:02:25 AM »

LoL, If you say so. Now go back and talk to your alter ego, I find it very amusing!  Wink

Apology accepted. It was an honest mistake on your part. I suppose it can be very difficult to keep things straight, with all of the stirring you do -- and now, so prominently on both sides of the forum. When do you sleep? 
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sawd off
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« Reply #44 on: September 06, 2008, 09:59:55 AM »

Big Brown found a way to win the Haskell, and was criticized for "barely" winning. Curlin barely won the Woodward, and is a "Great Champion". Both faced nothing in their respective races, but they both had to dig down deep to get up for the win. You don't see the double standard at work here? 

Agreed. But even the owner now realizes that they might have to beat Big Brown to be named HOY -- they are reportedly now considering running in the BC Classic. I'm not surprised at all -- the Japan Dirt Cup is a really lame choice for Curlin's last race, and everybody knows it.

Nonsense. Big Brown is a lock for 3 year old Champion. You can't fault Big Brown for not yet accomplishing as much as Curlin -- he's only a 3 year old. Curlin is 4. Frankly, I'm tired of this kind of trick-bag argument. Big Brown has accomplished far more as a 3 year old than Curlin did. Try to spin that in Curlin's favor.
Look the 3 yearold division is the weakest in years. He has beat nothing when he has won. Yes, he is the best 3yearold out there. He is no champion until he beats the reigning TRUE CHAMPION in CURLIN. Lets see how he does against older horses. If you want to call BB a champion 3 yearold go ahead. He is no World Champ until he beats CURLIN. Yes, let DICK big mouth Dutrow fill him with the ROIDS. Anyone is a fool to believe that he is not. CULIN has ran against the best and beat the best with a very solid Resume against some of the top older horses in the WORLD. Not against some average threeyearolds. Hopefully they will hook up in the Classic. It's obvious DICKY and BB don't want to go back to Belmont where he was EASED against a bunch of average threeyearolds. These are the facts!
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big wally
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« Reply #45 on: September 06, 2008, 10:31:55 AM »

With Curlin choosing the Jockey Gold Cup the Curlin Team will not send him to the Classic, too bad the classic will be run on the fake stuff we will never find out who is the better dirt horse...

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Horse Voice
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« Reply #46 on: September 06, 2008, 11:46:14 AM »

Yes, let DICK big mouth Dutrow fill him with the ROIDS. Anyone is a fool to believe that he is not.

Big Brown has been off steroids for 2-3 months now.
 
California has been posting full-page ads in the DRF outlining their ban on steroids and the impact on horses wishing to run in the Breeders Cup. (Only small traces of 4 steroids are allowed, and all others are banned outright.

Anyone that thinks Dutrow is loading Big Brown up with steroids just to run him in the BC and get busted is the fool.   

CULIN has ran against the best and beat the best with a very solid Resume against some of the top older horses in the WORLD.

Name some that he faced this year. Name ONE. "Top" older horses, you said -- not the tomato cans he faced in the Woodward.

(Admit it, you had to go back and look to see who he beat, didn't you?)

These are the facts!

As usual when someone here is ripping on Big Brown, 1 part fact mixed in with 3 parts opinion, 2 parts jive, and 1 part "I hate Dutrow". And also as usual, pretty weak sauce when someone feels compelled to end their post with the emphatic "These are the facts!" line.
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glahn
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« Reply #47 on: September 06, 2008, 12:16:47 PM »

Name some that he faced this year. Name ONE. "Top" older horses, you said -- not the tomato cans he faced in the Woodward.

I know this is last year, but he beat Lawyer Ron who turned into a monster for a few races. This year he beat Well Armed, who ran a good second in the Pacific Classic. He beat a former Breeder's Cup winner in Better Talk Now. He beat Asiatic Boy, who admittedly through in a clunker that day, but is a good horse otherwise. He ran that Dubai race in what was a good final time compared to the final times of the other dirt races that day. I wouldn't exactly call Wanderin' Boy a tomato can--he can be very good when on his game. He beat Einstein (admittedly, wrong surface for him) when he was performing better than he ever has in his life. He beat Brass Hat, who has won and placed in several grade 1s.

I'd bet Proud Spell over Big Brown in a 1 1/8th race on real dirt with a full field.
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mel4600
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« Reply #48 on: September 06, 2008, 12:49:07 PM »

It can also be asked, who is the best horse Big Brown has beaten? Hard to make a case when presented this way. Having said that,  making these kinds of comparisons will not convince anybody who is better. Time will tell.
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Horse Voice
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« Reply #49 on: September 06, 2008, 12:52:26 PM »

I know this is last year, but he beat Lawyer Ron who turned into a monster for a few races. This year he beat Well Armed, who ran a good second in the Pacific Classic. He beat a former Breeder's Cup winner in Better Talk Now. He beat Asiatic Boy, who admittedly through in a clunker that day, but is a good horse otherwise. He ran that Dubai race in what was a good final time compared to the final times of the other dirt races that day. I wouldn't exactly call Wanderin' Boy a tomato can--he can be very good when on his game. He beat Einstein (admittedly, wrong surface for him) when he was performing better than he ever has in his life. He beat Brass Hat, who has won and placed in several grade 1s.

I'd bet Proud Spell over Big Brown in a 1 1/8th race on real dirt with a full field.

I knew YOU knew all of that stuff, glahn -- I wanted "sawd off" to come up with something other than rhetoric.

Not real impressive beating Brass Hat and Better Talk Now these days, BTW, since many other horses not of Curlin's caliber have also beaten these two.

It's really a trick question, because what I'll never get any of the Curlin backers to admit is that there aren't very many good horses in the older handicap division for dirt horses. The current situation reminds me of a few years ago, when Mineshaft started winning everything...I thought he was a real nice horse, but no world-beater.
 
Now, Proud Spell vs. Big Brown -- that would be a horse race. Wouldn't be surprised to see her beat all the males -- Curlin too -- if she raced them.
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