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Author Topic: Curlin faithful are pretty quiet  (Read 3554 times)
Horse Voice
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« on: August 31, 2008, 11:35:55 AM »

That was pretty unimpressive yesterday -- all out to beat a field of tomato cans, and a 14 second final furlong?

This is the "Super Horse" that Big Brown can't get a sniff of?

LOL. Sniff this.
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The Commander
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« Reply #1 on: August 31, 2008, 01:19:46 PM »

Does anyone think Commentator can wire the Classic if he runs?
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mel4600
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« Reply #2 on: August 31, 2008, 02:09:47 PM »

That was pretty unimpressive yesterday -- all out to beat a field of tomato cans, and a 14 second final furlong?

This is the "Super Horse" that Big Brown can't get a sniff of?

LOL. Sniff this.

They call Saratoga the graveyard of the favorites and the fact is, no one needs to apologize for a win. Big brown should have run there and then only can you toot that horn. Having said that, I like both horses.
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NIATROSS
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« Reply #3 on: August 31, 2008, 02:37:36 PM »

That was pretty unimpressive yesterday -- all out to beat a field of tomato cans, and a 14 second final furlong?

This is the "Super Horse" that Big Brown can't get a sniff of?

LOL. Sniff this.


I will wait and see how the figs come out afterwards for the race before commenting.It looked like he was winding down after having the race secured.He had tough trip 4-5-6 wide thru fast fractions.I believe both camps are dodging each other.I also find it hard to believe BB did not run in he Travers with all the connections being fron NY.
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Horse Voice
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« Reply #4 on: August 31, 2008, 02:46:27 PM »

Big brown should have run there and then only can you toot that horn.

I don't see the rationale for that, Mel, when the Curlin faithful here dissed Big Brown's effort in Haskell for "barely beating" a nothing horse -- which is exactly what Curlin did yesterday.

And, "Big Brown should have run there", why? Curlin didn't wheel right back and run in the Travers or the Woodward after he ran in the Haskell last year -- he skipped 'em both.

(This is another problem I have with the Curlin backers here -- they want Big Brown to jump through far more hoops in his 3 year old campaign than Curlin did in his. Why? How is that fair, to either horse?)

You have acknowledged that you like both horses in the past, and have done so again in this thread. I like 'em both, too -- I really do.

The part about Big Brown being "nowhere in the same class as Curlin", though -- with that, I have a big problem. If the Curlin backers would examine the numbers and the compare the performances, with no preconceived notions about who is better, they would find that Curlin and BB are just not that far apart.

And I've got more bad news for the Curlin backers -- several Eclipse award voters are already on record as saying Big Brown has a slight edge for Horse of the Year right now; IMO, if Big Brown wins the Classic, he's a mortal lock for HOY.

Curlin had better get his ass out to California for the BC.
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mel4600
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« Reply #5 on: August 31, 2008, 03:07:40 PM »

You have acknowledged that you like both horses in the past, and have done so again in this thread. I like 'em both, too -- I really do.

The part about Big Brown being "nowhere in the same class as Curlin", though -- with that, I have a big problem. If the Curlin backers would examine the numbers and the compare the performances, with no preconceived notions about who is better, they would find that Curlin and BB are just not that far apart.


While I don't think Big Brown is yet to Curlins level I definitely feel he is very close and I have never stated that there was a huge class difference. I think next to Curlin it is definitely Big Brown and I for one would love to see that race and let it speak for itself.
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Horse Voice
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« Reply #6 on: August 31, 2008, 03:41:21 PM »

While I don't think Big Brown is yet to Curlins level I definitely feel he is very close and I have never stated that there was a huge class difference.

You have been very consistent and clear in your comments about these two horses, Mel. Although you like Curlin, I am not lumping you in with the "Curlin backers" I am referencing. I should have been more clear about this.

I think next to Curlin it is definitely Big Brown and I for one would love to see that race and let it speak for itself.

Amen.

(Hey, Mel -- mark this date on the calendar: on August 31, 2008, we agreed on something.  Shocked  )
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mottoman
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« Reply #7 on: August 31, 2008, 04:17:06 PM »

I guess nobody knows the reasons why but both horses do not appear to be nearly as sharp as they were in the springtime! 
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glahn
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« Reply #8 on: August 31, 2008, 06:01:04 PM »

IMO, if Big Brown wins the Classic, he's a mortal lock for HOY.

Problem is, he won't win the Classic. I wish I could get a foreign bank account set up so I could lay this horse right now on the european betting exchanges.
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glahn
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« Reply #9 on: August 31, 2008, 06:01:52 PM »

I guess nobody knows the reasons why but both horses do not appear to be nearly as sharp as they were in the springtime! 

That is true. I blame it on lack of steroids, hahaha.
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Horse Voice
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« Reply #10 on: August 31, 2008, 06:07:53 PM »

Problem is, he won't win the Classic.

Really? No shot at all, huh?

On what are you basing this declarative -- the known Classic opponents of Big Brown, or your in-depth knowledge of how horses are taking to the brand new racing surface at Santa Anita?

Please -- when did you turn into silly?

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glahn
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« Reply #11 on: August 31, 2008, 08:21:52 PM »

He's got a shot, but not a very good one. I'm basing this off my knowledge of Big Brown's merits and the probable competition.

If you want to make a wager, I'll give you 5-1 right now. If he doesn't start, I win the bet. If he starts and loses, I win the bet. If he dead heats for the win, I'll give you 5-2 instead. Interested?

P.S. Tomorrow there's 8 grass races at AP. I know you hate the poly, so if you were to ever to get to AP this year I would think tomorrow would be the best day.
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Horse Voice
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« Reply #12 on: August 31, 2008, 09:57:08 PM »

He's got a shot, but not a very good one. I'm basing this off my knowledge of Big Brown's merits and the probable competition.

If you want to make a wager, I'll give you 5-1 right now. If he doesn't start, I win the bet. If he starts and loses, I win the bet. If he dead heats for the win, I'll give you 5-2 instead. Interested?

No. Pretty sporting of you, but not necessary -- I'll get 5-1 on BC day, without the risk of making a "futures bet", which I hate anyway. Besides, I wouldn't bet on being alive in 8 weeks at only 5-1.

P.S. Tomorrow there's 8 grass races at AP. I know you hate the poly, so if you were to ever to get to AP this year I would think tomorrow would be the best day.

I'm all over it, but my chances of going to AP tomorrow are 0.00%. I'm picking up yet another $200 rebate tomorrow at Hawthorne, and even if I weren't boycotting AP, I couldn't imagine playing somewhere that rebates at a rate of only 40% of what Hawthorne does.
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glahn
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« Reply #13 on: August 31, 2008, 11:00:32 PM »

No. Pretty sporting of you, but not necessary -- I'll get 5-1 on BC day, without the risk of making a "futures bet", which I hate anyway. Besides, I wouldn't bet on being alive in 8 weeks at only 5-1.

I'm all over it, but my chances of going to AP tomorrow are 0.00%. I'm picking up yet another $200 rebate tomorrow at Hawthorne, and even if I weren't boycotting AP, I couldn't imagine playing somewhere that rebates at a rate of only 40% of what Hawthorne does.

You think he'll be 5-1 on BC day? Hm. I would think 3-1 is more likely, but I may be wrong. The antepost betting shops in Europe have him anywhere from 4-1 to 6.4-1.

Re: rebates: why don't you find an off-shore online/telephone rebate shop to bet through? You can probably find someone who gives 400% of what Haw does.
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Gb
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« Reply #14 on: August 31, 2008, 11:07:20 PM »

If they meet in the Classic, Curlin will beat Big Brown. Neither horse was impressive in their last race, but Curlin still looked better than BB
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BeauNarro
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« Reply #15 on: September 01, 2008, 12:41:14 AM »

I hope the BC Classic has both BB and Curlin - and they dead heat for the win in the first time in BC Classic History.
They are both great horses in their own right, and all of you negative azzholes aren't "real" horse people - but really are horses azzes. (Yes, that includes you HorseVoice..)
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Horse Voice
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« Reply #16 on: September 01, 2008, 02:33:13 AM »

...all of you negative azzholes aren't "real" horse people - but really are horses azzes. (Yes, that includes you HorseVoice..)

Yeah, I'm a real ***hole -- all I've done here for the last two months is defend Big Brown from the many biased critics here. Big negative ***hole me.

Of course you are better than all of us, Beau, being a breeder and a "real" horse person an all. It must frost your real horse person ass that you need us scumbag bettors to keep you in business, eh?

And who rips into Hawthorne whenever he feels the need (or has had a snoutful to drink, perhaps)? Better check yourself on that negativity stuff.
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APCD Dan
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« Reply #17 on: September 01, 2008, 11:11:24 AM »

And who rips into Hawthorne whenever he feels the need (or has had a snoutful to drink, perhaps)? Better check yourself on that negativity stuff.>>>>

Hey, I am the one who does that.  Keep your enemies straight!
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Horse Voice
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« Reply #18 on: September 01, 2008, 12:18:35 PM »

And who rips into Hawthorne whenever he feels the need (or has had a snoutful to drink, perhaps)? Better check yourself on that negativity stuff.>>>>

Hey, I am the one who does that.  Keep your enemies straight!

I don't think of anyone here as an enemy. Forum sparring partners, perhaps. Anyone taking this stuff too seriously is likely to be causing themselves organ damage.

Beau has been extremely critical of Hawthorne on the operational and plant changes they've made over the past few years. Feels like there's some sort of hidden agenda there, but I haven't put the pieces together yet.

That's OK, though -- vent all you want. You. Me. Beau. Anybody. About anything, whether it's horseracing related or not, it seems. It's not my board.

But if anyone is going to call me a negative ***hole, their own house better be in order, or they are going to get called on it.

I can only think of a few posters who always keep things positive here, and Beau sure ain't one of them.
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BeauNarro
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« Reply #19 on: September 01, 2008, 12:32:13 PM »

I don't think of anyone here as an enemy. Forum sparring partners, perhaps. Anyone taking this stuff too seriously is likely to be causing themselves organ damage.

Beau has been extremely critical of Hawthorne on the operational and plant changes they've made over the past few years. Feels like there's some sort of hidden agenda there, but I haven't put the pieces together yet.

That's OK, though -- vent all you want. You. Me. Beau. Anybody. About anything, whether it's horseracing related or not, it seems. It's not my board.

But if anyone is going to call me a negative ***hole, their own house better be in order, or they are going to get called on it.

I can only think of a few posters who always keep things positive here, and Beau sure ain't one of them.

Your house is in order?? HUH?
You are also not always positive on this board. Kinda like calling the kettle black -eh?
You are far more negative about Arlington and RLD than I am of Hawthorne.
I still like Hawthorne and beleive that Illinois needs Hawthorne in the racing picture in a big way, but over the last few years they have done a lot of things that have hurt their product. I'm not making this stuff up due to a secret vendetta - it's all factual.
As far as having a "snootfull" prior to posting - I was sober last night when I posted and am now too. I was actually trying to be funny, but you got your *** in a bind as usual whenever I post. You're just another pathetic stalker that you accuse so many others of being towards you.
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Horse Voice
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« Reply #20 on: September 01, 2008, 12:40:31 PM »

Your house is in order?? HUH?
You are also not always positive on this board. Kinda like calling the kettle black -eh?

Um...no, because I didn't call anyone a negative ***hole. I was defending myself from such a call. Big difference.

I was actually trying to be funny.

Nice try, but you're full of shit.

(If I say I'm actually trying to be funny when I say that -- do I get a free pass?)
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BeauNarro
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« Reply #21 on: September 01, 2008, 08:54:33 PM »

Um...no, because I didn't call anyone a negative ***hole. I was defending myself from such a call. Big difference.

Nice try, but you're full of shit.

(If I say I'm actually trying to be funny when I say that -- do I get a free pass?)

I would NEVER shit you Horsey...yer my favorite turd!
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sawd off
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« Reply #22 on: September 02, 2008, 09:53:08 AM »

That was pretty unimpressive yesterday -- all out to beat a field of tomato cans, and a 14 second final furlong?

This is the "Super Horse" that Big Brown can't get a sniff of?

LOL. Sniff this.
Great Champions find ways to win whether it's by nose or a length. He is still the one to beat. BBrown is good but he is not a Champion Like CURLIN. Curlin is going to the GOLD CUP. Would like to see Big Brown face him there, but I believe he is opting to run on the Turf.
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NIATROSS
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« Reply #23 on: September 02, 2008, 10:05:41 AM »

Great Champions find ways to win whether it's by nose or a length. He is still the one to beat. BBrown is good but he is not a Champion Like CURLIN. Curlin is going to the GOLD CUP. Would like to see Big Brown face him there, but I believe he is opting to run on the Turf.

BB is definitely gong to be the 3YO champ and depending on what happens thru the Classic may end up as HOY.
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Horse Voice
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« Reply #24 on: September 02, 2008, 10:15:04 AM »

Great Champions find ways to win whether it's by nose or a length.

Big Brown found a way to win the Haskell, and was criticized for "barely" winning. Curlin barely won the Woodward, and is a "Great Champion". Both faced nothing in their respective races, but they both had to dig down deep to get up for the win. You don't see the double standard at work here? 

[Curlin] is still the one to beat.

Agreed. But even the owner now realizes that they might have to beat Big Brown to be named HOY -- they are reportedly now considering running in the BC Classic. I'm not surprised at all -- the Japan Dirt Cup is a really lame choice for Curlin's last race, and everybody knows it.

BBrown is good but he is not a Champion Like CURLIN

Nonsense. Big Brown is a lock for 3 year old Champion. You can't fault Big Brown for not yet accomplishing as much as Curlin -- he's only a 3 year old. Curlin is 4. Frankly, I'm tired of this kind of trick-bag argument. Big Brown has accomplished far more as a 3 year old than Curlin did. Try to spin that in Curlin's favor.
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