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Author Topic: paul macdonnell should be shot  (Read 8787 times)
njhorseman
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« Reply #50 on: July 21, 2008, 11:32:21 PM »

hey I never made the comment about him being green, that was made by the owner. I was only repeating it. You're right he has raced 10 times and you're right he shouldnt be green, but they treated him like something that could be broke like a tooth pick, in my opinion they've babied the horse right from the get go. And actually he hasnt gone right to the front in many of his races this year, he usually floats out of there, lets everyone settle and then trucks to the front, and usually everyone hands it to him on a silver platter. The point I was trying to make is Paul never drove the horse any different this week then  he has in the past weeks, the difference was a couple other drivers decided they would finally take a shot at him. It changed the whole complex of the race. And no one in their right mind was expecting the kinda of race Art official threw in on saturday. Like Paul said, if he had expected that, he probably would have driven his horse differently. As for the rest of the first quater, some people will argue he was interfered with in the first turn, in my opinion Im not sure if he was. But Im thinking, if Ronnie sees the beach tuck in the 3 hole, Ronnie is backing into them, and then it would have been someone else second over behind Yannick, and that would have meant the beach was locked in. yes the agressive drive is what got him beat, but it was only an extra agressive drive because finally the others drivers took a run at him and made him earn it. Thats the way horse racing should be, and the Pace was a million times better race the The NAC was this year because of it.

scootergirl...you are on a roll.  thumbs up
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njhorseman
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« Reply #51 on: July 21, 2008, 11:37:04 PM »

Not surprised that you concur -- when did a trainer ever see an excuse he didn't like?

Given the source, I'll take your remark as a compliment. Grin

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Horse Voice
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« Reply #52 on: July 21, 2008, 11:41:22 PM »

Given the source, I'll take your remark as a compliment. Grin

Nice try.

Trainers have excuses by the cartload. Everybody knows it -- if they don't make excuses, horses start leaving the barn, and then, goodbye day money!

I suppose YOU are different, though.  Roll Eyes
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Dolfan
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« Reply #53 on: July 22, 2008, 12:12:36 AM »

Nice try.

Trainers have excuses by the cartload. Everybody knows it -- if they don't make excuses, horses start leaving the barn, and then, goodbye day money!

I suppose YOU are different, though.  Roll Eyes

The horse just paced in 1:47- after being abused.  The trainer's only excuse is going with a driver who had a perfect record on the horse & I'm sure that the owner agreed (at that point).  Other than that, you couldn't possibly blame the trainer for lack of explosive gate speed.  If you owned the horse, would you hold the trainer responsible for not having the horse in good-enough condition?  Would you actually tell the trainer that if he had trained the horse properly, he wouldn't have lost?  Be serious!

MacDonnell not knowing what the hell to do

Just stick with that angle - you don't need to go any further.
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race track phil
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« Reply #54 on: July 22, 2008, 12:36:36 AM »

hey I never made the comment about him being green, that was made by the owner. I was only repeating it. You're right he has raced 10 times and you're right he shouldnt be green, but they treated him like something that could be broke like a tooth pick, in my opinion they've babied the horse right from the get go. And actually he hasnt gone right to the front in many of his races this year, he usually floats out of there, lets everyone settle and then trucks to the front, and usually everyone hands it to him on a silver platter. The point I was trying to make is Paul never drove the horse any different this week then  he has in the past weeks, the difference was a couple other drivers decided they would finally take a shot at him. It changed the whole complex of the race. And no one in their right mind was expecting the kinda of race Art official threw in on saturday. Like Paul said, if he had expected that, he probably would have driven his horse differently. As for the rest of the first quater, some people will argue he was interfered with in the first turn, in my opinion Im not sure if he was. But Im thinking, if Ronnie sees the beach tuck in the 3 hole, Ronnie is backing into them, and then it would have been someone else second over behind Yannick, and that would have meant the beach was locked in. yes the agressive drive is what got him beat, but it was only an extra agressive drive because finally the others drivers took a run at him and made him earn it. Thats the way horse racing should be, and the Pace was a million times better race the The NAC was this year because of it.
                How is Ronnie going to back into them if SBSW drops to the rail like your thinking if  Gingrass is sitting outside of him tryiny to get the lead ?  I guess your saying the rest of the field who were satified in there position cause none of them could get up were automatically come flying up and lock Paul in the cause he isn't prepared to pull !   Talk about a crystal ball you must have one if you think someone could backup the field to lock SBSW ! You are right about one thing the other drivers mainly Pierce didn't rollover and play dead !  What happened can be argued and argued and we can all differ in opinions !  The funny thing is its as clear as a bell to me as what he should have done and its clear to others what he should have done and they vary in thoughts of what actually occurred and why it occurred .
               I think we are all stuck in our opinion of the drive and no one is going to change anyone else's mind and thats the same reason we often bet different horses !
                                             RTP

       PS     I also watched the replay several times and still cant figure out why he didn't drop to the rail with a wheel out , just in case some miracle horse who never competed wouldn't lock the Beach in ! I'm Done !
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thewhip
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« Reply #55 on: July 22, 2008, 12:53:31 AM »

I was just curious, if you guys want Paul to be shot, when are we going to discuss what we should do with Yannick?
If I put up a 100k to be in a race, I wouldn't mind trying to get a cheque...
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sporty
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« Reply #56 on: July 22, 2008, 06:12:59 AM »

I am curious how many drivers we have on this thread? I'm always amazed how many people will critique and second guesas a drive or the first quarter (26 seconds) of a race in some cases.

I think some people believe these harmers bikes come with GPS, rear view mirrors, walkie talkies and everything so the driver knows where everyone is at and what they're doing.  Mac is a fine driver and, you know what, you win some, you lose some. The racing public (and yes I said racing, not betting) is always hypercritical and they always lead this with 'well, I watched the replay 3 times....blah blah blah. The guy in the bike doesn't have that privilege. Bad driver, good drive hwhatever....that's racing.

Before one of my horses next starts can someone please look over the entries and letr me know how the race will play out?v who will be first second, etc at the quarter, when they'll move. I'd really appreciate it because then I can go tell the driver.

One lock in this game is no person or horse is perfect every time they go to the gate.
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njhorseman
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« Reply #57 on: July 22, 2008, 09:59:59 AM »

Nice try.

Trainers have excuses by the cartload. Everybody knows it -- if they don't make excuses, horses start leaving the barn, and then, goodbye day money!

I suppose YOU are different, though.  Roll Eyes

I am different...I've never been a professional trainer, and you'll never see my name on a racing program as a trainer. I was a hands-on owner who for a couple of years was in the barn working every day. I still had a licensed trainer in my employ. There was never a need for me to make excuses to myself. I knew why my horses raced well or poorly...or somewhere in between.
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stevenc
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« Reply #58 on: July 22, 2008, 10:40:31 AM »

Absolutely untrue. A while after the race, trainer Joe Holloway and driver Brian Sears finally admitted that AAV broke because Sears caught him with the whip in what all men know to be a very delicate spot.


I actually heard the same thing about Sears getting the whip caught around Always a virgins' private areas.  Not sure if its true or not but I heard it from Ken Warkinton so i am guessing it is true.  A whip around my privates would make me break too.  It just goes to show that we are all human, even the very best drivers make mistakes
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VicD
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« Reply #59 on: July 22, 2008, 10:54:16 AM »

Everyone is a harness driver watching the monitors...
I don't think any of this is complicated..
Macdonnell obviously thought Yannick's horse was going to carry him to the top..
It didn't work out that way, so he still made the lead, even after a masterful drive by Pierce to take as much out of him as possible..
SBSW raced his lungs out thru the stretch, and got beat by a better horse that night..Is anyone surprised Pierce made a winning move?
Ronnie set a 51.4 half, so it's not like he got a free ride at any point..
As far as taking a 4 hole, that's not what you do for a million, especially when it looks like you can follow cover to the top...
The Ryan Anderson comment was one of the funniest things I've heard in a long time..
Anderson has won dozens of big races, and he would surely have schooled Ronnie, right?
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stevenc
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« Reply #60 on: July 22, 2008, 11:07:40 AM »

What a great topic.  98 different posts and 98 different opinions.  In my opinion, PM's mistake was at the start of the race.  I know there is talk of how green SMSW is (he certainly doesnt race like a horse who is green) but I would have still fired him out of the gate.  You cant tell me that Mucho SLeazy and Art Official have more gate speed.  Once PM got caught in no mans land, i think his only move was to the top and not take the chance of getting a 1-9 fav locked in.  If you have that green of a horse and are not planning on leaving hard, what is the point of picking post 2 with a 1-9 horse that doesnt like the gate?  Wouldnt post 4 or 5 better suit him?
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Dolfan
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« Reply #61 on: July 22, 2008, 12:03:46 PM »

AAV broke because Sears caught him with the whip in what all men know to be a very delicate spot.

Does that mean he's really not a virgin??  Shocked Shocked Shocked
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njhorseman
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« Reply #62 on: July 22, 2008, 01:14:32 PM »

Does that mean he's really not a virgin??  Shocked Shocked Shocked

No...but it could mean he'll have to remain a virgin for the rest of his life.  Grin
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Dolfan
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« Reply #63 on: July 22, 2008, 01:20:44 PM »

No...but it could mean he'll have to remain a virgin for the rest of his life.  Grin

Ouch!!!  I'm crossing my legs right now.
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We can produce more wealth, but we cannot produce more time.  When we give someone our time, we actually give a portion of our life that we will never get back.
HarnessGuy1
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« Reply #64 on: July 22, 2008, 02:11:17 PM »

Yes, I do think Ryan could have pulled it off, he is a great driver and knows Art.
Art does have more speed than the beach, obviously. That was Pierces second time driving him, that is why Art did not win the elimination. Ron wanted to see how the horse was and still came in second. The only reason Art did not win the NACup is because Buter choked and drove him terribly. Art is the best 3 year old and given a good drive, he will beat anyone this year. A lot of people don't seem to understand how great of a horse we have here. Yes SBSW is amazing, but Art is a better horse. Just look at the race, he should have been out after that 51 half...
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njhorseman
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« Reply #65 on: July 22, 2008, 02:32:44 PM »

Yes, I do think Ryan could have pulled it off, he is a great driver and knows Art.
Art does have more speed than the beach, obviously. That was Pierces second time driving him, that is why Art did not win the elimination. Ron wanted to see how the horse was and still came in second. The only reason Art did not win the NACup is because Buter choked and drove him terribly. Art is the best 3 year old and given a good drive, he will beat anyone this year. A lot of people don't seem to understand how great of a horse we have here. Yes SBSW is amazing, but Art is a better horse. Just look at the race, he should have been out after that 51 half...

Ryan Anderson is a talented driver, but he has a long way to go before he could ever be considered to be on the same level as Ron Pierce, a great Hall of Famer who is well known for big drives in the biggest races.

To flat out call Art Official the better horse off of a single race in which driver skill and strategy, plus one driver being on a suicide mission combined into a "perfect storm", is a bit of a stretch.

In Art Official's last 10 races before the Pace final (which are all the lines the program showed), he did not leave the gate even once...even in races he won with both Buter and Anderson driving. How you could conclude that Art Official had more speed than SBSW before the Pace final took place is beyond me. Hindsight is easy, but there is no way in the world you would know that from the past performances.
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thewhip
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« Reply #66 on: July 22, 2008, 02:40:40 PM »

Yes, I do think Ryan could have pulled it off, he is a great driver and knows Art.
Art does have more speed than the beach, obviously. That was Pierces second time driving him, that is why Art did not win the elimination. Ron wanted to see how the horse was and still came in second. The only reason Art did not win the NACup is because Buter choked and drove him terribly. Art is the best 3 year old and given a good drive, he will beat anyone this year. A lot of people don't seem to understand how great of a horse we have here. Yes SBSW is amazing, but Art is a better horse. Just look at the race, he should have been out after that 51 half...
Huh?
Art has more speed than the beach?
How did you surmise that?  The fact that he currently has a faster life mark?
The best 3yo?  Wow.
Why? 
You actually think Ronnies drive was a good drive?
What are your thoughts on kamikaze pilots?
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VicD
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« Reply #67 on: July 22, 2008, 05:02:02 PM »

Ronnie's drive was masterful..
He got the money against perhaps a better horse.
He cut brutal fractions and had something left, and he stung the horse he needed to beat..
That's the definition of a great drive..
To talk about Ryan Anderson in the same breath as Ron Pierce is ridiculous, bordering on asinine...
Anderson is approximately where Ronnie was about 20 years ago..
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Dolfan
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« Reply #68 on: July 22, 2008, 05:09:45 PM »

Ryan Anderson is a talented driver, but he has a long way to go before he could ever be considered to be on the same level as Ron Pierce, a great Hall of Famer who is well known for big drives in the biggest races.

To flat out call Art Official the better horse off of a single race in which driver skill and strategy, plus one driver being on a suicide mission combined into a "perfect storm", is a bit of a stretch.

In Art Official's last 10 races before the Pace final (which are all the lines the program showed), he did not leave the gate even once...even in races he won with both Buter and Anderson driving. How you could conclude that Art Official had more speed than SBSW before the Pace final took place is beyond me. Hindsight is easy, but there is no way in the world you would know that from the past performances.

We're on the same side once again & this one with no doubts.  Actually, I think HarnessGuy1 is kind of making it easy on us!
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Gb
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« Reply #69 on: July 22, 2008, 05:42:08 PM »

I am a Ryan Anderson fan. Just my opinion, but I don't think he would of drove the horse like Pierce did. I think he would of let em go and then probably came first up. Who knows tho, since he was hurt. I do Believe that PM drove the horse horribly
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bret hart
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« Reply #70 on: July 22, 2008, 08:46:03 PM »

Couldn't agree more. Just ask Brian he only won 6 last night.
First off Paul has been the most respected driver in Canada for 20 years now, Brian won 6 ?? Who cares? Ask Always A Virgin how he feels about "Brian"..first breaking him in the Pace last year, and then the ridiculous park job on Tell All instead of following him, that cost them both, why did he park Tell All? cuz he'd rather sacrifice his horse than let the Canadian connections win, typical. Paul did nothing wrong, what if he takes to the wood and never gets off how does he get murdered then. How is he supposed to know that Pierce is going to park Gingras a 51 half? Gingras horse was one of the choices going into the Pace wasn't like he was 99 to 1. You would think Pierce would let him clear, then you would never think that after SBSW clears that Pierce would have horse to remove. Paul was winning Breeders Crown races long before anyone knew who Brian Sears was. Just look up Bays Fella. Im not saying Sears is not the best because he is, but hey Paul is one of the all time underrated drivers in our history, he never drove for the "super" stables you know the miracle 40% guys but hey leave it the american guys to bash a canadian guy, Ron Pierce not even acknowledging SWSW in his interviews, I can't wait until the rematch when SBSW wins by 10 and acts just as arrogantly as Pierce did, but hey we all know he won't it's not the Canadian way.

Regards,

Somebeachsomewhere, still the best there is, best there was, and best there ever will be.
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Dolfan
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« Reply #71 on: July 22, 2008, 08:56:22 PM »

Paul did nothing wrong

Somebeachsomewhere, still the best there is, best there was, and best there ever will be.

Eesh! If Paul did nothing wrong & SBSW is the best ever, how could he have lost?  doh

Lots of great thoughts & contributors on "paul macdonnell should be shot".  Must be a reason.

PS: Not Bret Hart, as in the horse from 30 years ago is it?
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We can produce more wealth, but we cannot produce more time.  When we give someone our time, we actually give a portion of our life that we will never get back.
njhorseman
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« Reply #72 on: July 22, 2008, 10:10:07 PM »

"The most respected driver in Canada for 20 years now" or not, on Saturday night in the Meadowlands Pace he was outdriven by Ron Pierce and lost the race.

And calling a horse "still the best there is, best there was, and best there ever will be" when he has a grand total of 11 lifetime races, and lost the only race where he was challenged by another horse, is about the funniest thing I've read in years.

We won't see a rematch any time soon because MacGrath took his horse home so he can beat up on Ontario Sire Stakes horses. What a champion!



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thewhip
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« Reply #73 on: July 22, 2008, 11:23:30 PM »

NJ,

What a brutal statement!
You want him to stay and race in the OLW for what 60 k? 
I dunno, if I'm offered 60k or 420k.. I think I will take 420k...how about you? 
.... and furthermore, he was never challenged before because NOBODY could challenge him.
It took a genius who couldn't put together 2 consecutive sentences if he tried, and Yannick all or nothing Gingras to get him beat.


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Dolfan
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« Reply #74 on: July 22, 2008, 11:55:46 PM »

NJ,

What a brutal statement!
You want him to stay and race in the OLW for what 60 k? 
I dunno, if I'm offered 60k or 420k.. I think I will take 420k...how about you? 
.... and furthermore, he was never challenged before because NOBODY could challenge him.
It took a genius who couldn't put together 2 consecutive sentences if he tried, and Yannick all or nothing Gingras to get him beat.

NJ & I have had many passionate disagreements but this one is just a no brainer.  A little race called the Oliver Wendell Holmes on what is it called?  Oh yes, Hambletonian day on the world's biggest stage with an opportunity to just show the great horse that he probably is & break the world record.  That may be worth a little more than 60K, not to mention the huge payout at the breeding shed as the fastest race horse ever.

That's putting aside the logical argument that these folks who are involved with the horse owe it to the sport to race against the very best & prove that last week's driving disaster was just that & nothing more.  Yannick was trying to get position to get a piece - his owner did put up $100k to supplement.  I highly doubt that Yannick told the owner before the race "I have to find a way to mess up SBSW so to hell with your 100k".  His horse did have one of the fastest win times in the field.

We're just hearing it all right here -
- "Ryan Anderson also would have won"
- "Macdonnel did nothing wrong"
- "Badlands Nitro should be ranked ahead of Art Official"
- And now "the owners should find the softest field he can crush"

Are you folks for real?  I know people from Canada are going to be biased but why - we all still think SBSW is the best but he will need to prove it again.  And the sport deserves to see a rematch on Hambo Day.  It would draw more attention by the genuine harness fan than the Hambo itself & 20-30k people would be treated to a tremendous race.
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We can produce more wealth, but we cannot produce more time.  When we give someone our time, we actually give a portion of our life that we will never get back.
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