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Author Topic: paul macdonnell should be shot  (Read 8822 times)
Dolfan
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« Reply #25 on: July 21, 2008, 10:17:10 AM »

Tetrick is not #2  IMO.He happens to be the most popular flavor lately

look where the guy is in avg $ per start and where he finished last year and any full yr he has competed.

Tetrick will be the next leading driver at The Big M - when Sears' reign is over.  That may not be for a few more years but to not see his obvious talent is just burying your head in the sand.  He's what - 26 or 27?  And you're beating him up for getting the filly roughed up in his 1st Hambo?  Not the same as Macdonnel's drive where he has the best horse in years & can't keep it in his pants for a 1/4 mile.

And what's your point on Takter?  I don't know how often Tetrick drives for him but what is Takter - another Dutrow -takes a great rider like Desormeaux & ridicules him?  Tetrick will continue to be in high demand - he wins on big tracks, small tracks, on speed horses & closers.  He's a typical "great" driver who's average $ per start at The Big M is 2nd only to - you guessed it, Sears!  I just don't see where you're going with this...
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cashman
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« Reply #26 on: July 21, 2008, 11:13:13 AM »

Did I say it was great  Huh

my bad  Tsunami

i thought u did say it was great
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NIATROSS
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« Reply #27 on: July 21, 2008, 12:09:39 PM »

Tetrick will be the next leading driver at The Big M - when Sears' reign is over.  That may not be for a few more years but to not see his obvious talent is just burying your head in the sand.  He's what - 26 or 27?  And you're beating him up for getting the filly roughed up in his 1st Hambo?  Not the same as Macdonnel's drive where he has the best horse in years & can't keep it in his pants for a 1/4 mile.

And what's your point on Takter?  I don't know how often Tetrick drives for him but what is Takter - another Dutrow -takes a great rider like Desormeaux & ridicules him?  Tetrick will continue to be in high demand - he wins on big tracks, small tracks, on speed horses & closers.  He's a typical "great" driver who's average $ per start at The Big M is 2nd only to - you guessed it, Sears!  I just don't see where you're going with this...


My original post was a rebuttal to someone who credited Tetrick with a great or smart drive in last year's pace when it wasl simply luck.

You can call it anything you want but Tetrick mishandled PP with no one around her and cost the connections 375K as she surely would have been 2nd.Was Mcd's ride a bad one yes but he did get 2nd and was beat in world record time.How much cash did  Tetrick get in the HAMBO ?

To compare TAKTER to DUTROW speaks for itself.I won't respond to that idiotic statement.

I know Tetrick is talented and I m not burying my head in the sand.I just prefer to wait 3-5 yrs before I anoint someone the next great thing.
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Dolfan
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« Reply #28 on: July 21, 2008, 12:16:17 PM »


My original post was a rebuttal to someone who credited Tetrick with a great or smart drive in last year's pace when it wasl simply luck.

You can call it anything you want but Tetrick mishandled PP with no one around her and cost the connections 375K as she surely would have been 2nd.Was Mcd's ride a bad one yes but he did get 2nd and was beat in world record time.How much cash did  Tetrick get in the HAMBO ?

To compare TAKTER to DUTROW speaks for itself.I won't respond to that idiotic statement.

No more idiotic than comparing PP with SBSW!  But I do agree his M Pace winning drive last year was luck.  And I never said he did a decent job with PP - I said as a young driver in big races, his mistakes will be magnified & remembered.  There will be more mistakes, rest assured but he will also be one of the greats!
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NIATROSS
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« Reply #29 on: July 21, 2008, 12:30:20 PM »

No more idiotic than comparing PP with SBSW!  But I do agree his M Pace winning drive last year was luck.  And I never said he did a decent job with PP - I said as a young driver in big races, his mistakes will be magnified & remembered.  There will be more mistakes, rest assured but he will also be one of the greats!

I will just wait the 3-5 yrs like I did with SEARS before I anoint Tetrick  one of the greats.
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Joe B
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« Reply #30 on: July 21, 2008, 01:07:38 PM »

Great race - just watched it again from the youtube link above - watching it a second time, it appears to me that there was a point Pierce was content with and trying to let Gingras clear him past the quarter - watch him grab - and watch Mucho Sleazy knock Pierce in the head - its only when macdonnell tips 3 deep that pierce decides to go on - if Gingras clears Pierce past the quarter - macdonnell is the likely winner and pierce has to make a choice whether to pull first over or sit in a 3 hole -

Does anyone agree with what I see ?  I definitely say there was a moment in that race when Pierce was going to let Gingras by - and the only reason Pierce ended up in the pocket was a combination of these 3 things - Pierce had a very hard time controlling Art's speed - Gingras horse tired very quickly and couldnt get by Pierce - and Paul Mac tipped 3 deep a little to fast...in any case its a great race to watch - the decision making of these drivers is a lot tougher than it looks - these guys are all excellent drivers - yes including Paul mac - and a race like that is what makes all of us harness racing fans - what a great race !!
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scootergirl
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« Reply #31 on: July 21, 2008, 01:19:38 PM »

I dont fault Paul one ounce, he drove the horse to win the race. I can guarantee you any other driver that was sitting behind the beach at the half in 51.4 would have went 3 wide and the reason for that is, how many people in their right mind would have thought Art official after battling a half in 51.4 second quater in 25.3 would still have horse left at the 3 quaters let alone the wire??? paul was thinking "ok I gotta take my shot now cause the 2 up front are chewed"(99.9% of the horses would have been off that half) When you are sitting behind a horse like the beach you dont risk being parked the entire mile and having to make your move around a dead horse around the last turn. he figured he had a chance to clear in a couple of steps(because like most people he thought those 2 front horses would be all done) BUT art Official had horse left, he stepped up to the plate and he earned the win!!!

DONT fault Paul....hindsight is worth $550,000.00 congratulate a horse that went an amazing mile to beat him, which we all knew thats what it was going to take. And congratulate the beach for racing his heart out as well.
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looking in
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« Reply #32 on: July 21, 2008, 02:18:59 PM »

I dont fault Paul one ounce, he drove the horse to win the race. I can guarantee you any other driver that was sitting behind the beach at the half in 51.4 would have went 3 wide and the reason for that is, how many people in their right mind would have thought Art official after battling a half in 51.4 second quater in 25.3 would still have horse left at the 3 quaters let alone the wire??? paul was thinking "ok I gotta take my shot now cause the 2 up front are chewed"(99.9% of the horses would have been off that half) When you are sitting behind a horse like the beach you dont risk being parked the entire mile and having to make your move around a dead horse around the last turn. he figured he had a chance to clear in a couple of steps(because like most people he thought those 2 front horses would be all done) BUT art Official had horse left, he stepped up to the plate and he earned the win!!!

DONT fault Paul....hindsight is worth $550,000.00 congratulate a horse that went an amazing mile to beat him, which we all knew thats what it was going to take. And congratulate the beach for racing his heart out as well.
Well said.
I agree.
I wish I could express myself and explain things as well as you just did.Thanks for an excellent post.
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I am just an old "Hoss" trainer, that has been raced hard and put away wet. 
As my Friend from Maine(Ora Stratton) says "There are horse trainers, and then there are real "Hoss" trainers.
njhorseman
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« Reply #33 on: July 21, 2008, 05:00:57 PM »

I agree...a great post  by scootergirl.
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scootergirl
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« Reply #34 on: July 21, 2008, 05:48:35 PM »

Thanks guys!!
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trotter1
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« Reply #35 on: July 21, 2008, 06:06:31 PM »

Do you guys think that Ryan Anderson would have been put down on Art Official in the Pace
if he hadn't been in the wreck?
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Horse Voice
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« Reply #36 on: July 21, 2008, 06:18:49 PM »

I dont fault Paul one ounce, he drove the horse to win the race. I can guarantee you any other driver that was sitting behind the beach at the half in 51.4 would have went 3 wide and the reason for that is, how many people in their right mind would have thought Art official after battling a half in 51.4 second quater in 25.3 would still have horse left at the 3 quaters let alone the wire??? paul was thinking "ok I gotta take my shot now cause the 2 up front are chewed"(99.9% of the horses would have been off that half) When you are sitting behind a horse like the beach you dont risk being parked the entire mile and having to make your move around a dead horse around the last turn. he figured he had a chance to clear in a couple of steps(because like most people he thought those 2 front horses would be all done) BUT art Official had horse left, he stepped up to the plate and he earned the win!!!

DONT fault Paul....hindsight is worth $550,000.00 congratulate a horse that went an amazing mile to beat him, which we all knew thats what it was going to take. And congratulate the beach for racing his heart out as well.

Well, you can excuse Paul Mac's drive, but I don't.

Never mind what he did at the half, or the 3/4, etc -- he lost the race for his colt in the *first* quarter by making a bad decision, and then following it up with indecision.

He had to know that the outside speed was going to gun up to the top -- why was he so slow leaving the gate, when his horse hadn't ever been headed before? But no, he doesn't leave, and in the scramble to make the top, there was Paul Mac, outfooted by 7 horses & sitting in back playing with himself. I knew right there he was beat -- I said to my buddy, "Look, MacDonnell just blew it! He doesn't know where he's supposed to be!"

If he guns to the top, he has control, with the fastest 3 year old in the world at his fingertips. Others could have tried to take the top, and he could sit for awhile if he wanted, or pull and go right around them. Either move would have worked, had he avoided traffic trouble earlier.

But that first quarter -- that bad decision to not leave, followed by driver indecision on where to be on the racetrack, followed by a long, hard, and fast grind to the top -- *that* is what beat SBSW, not a "better" horse. Driver error. Go ahead and say it. That's how it's going to be judged in the long run.

You MacDonnell apologists need to go back and watch that race again and ask yourselves, "Why didn't he leave and get good early position?"...then come back and tell us with a straight face why SBSW's loss wasn't MacDonnell's fault.
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Tsunami
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« Reply #37 on: July 21, 2008, 06:25:03 PM »


My original post was a rebuttal to someone who credited Tetrick with a great or smart drive in last year's pace when it wasl simply luck.

Don't you think some drivers create their own luck and it was a tight squeeze as he appeared to cross the pylons a bit.
All said he had to make a split decision and he made the correct one IMO.
 
I'm just guessing here but it seems you are holding some type of grudge against Tim Tetrick , I could be wrong though since he wears your favorite colors of Green & Yellow Wink


After reading all the comments maybe I was too hard on Paul as it's easy to second guess someones drive especially when you hit an 18-1 shot in the first leg of the pick 4  Cry
Everyone makes mistakes and being a professional driver lets hope he learned a lesson as that was a suicide drive.


Good Racing All  
 

P.S. HV I guess I was typing before your post but you too have some valid points
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NIATROSS
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« Reply #38 on: July 21, 2008, 08:14:13 PM »

Don't you think some drivers create their own luck and it was a tight squeeze as he appeared to cross the pylons a bit.
All said he had to make a split decision and he made the correct one IMO.
 
I'm just guessing here but it seems you are holding some type of grudge against Tim Tetrick , I could be wrong though since he wears your favorite colors of Green & Yellow Wink


After reading all the comments maybe I was too hard on Paul as it's easy to second guess someones drive especially when you hit an 18-1 shot in the first leg of the pick 4  Cry
Everyone makes mistakes and being a professional driver lets hope he learned a lesson as that was a suicide drive.


Good Racing All  
 

P.S. HV I guess I was typing before your post but you too have some valid points


I have watched the replay of last year's pace plenty of times and what I see is Tetrick moving off the rail and then going back to it.If the outer flow kept moving he was trapped so he went back to rail and got lucky when it opened up.

I don't have a grudge I am just one of those  geezer geezer old guys who does not jump oin everyone's bandwagon till they been at it for a while.
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scootergirl
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« Reply #39 on: July 21, 2008, 08:45:49 PM »

Horse voice


if you would have listened to paul and Mark macgraths interview last week after the elim you would know that the beach has issues in behind the gate, hes still very green and considering they went a quater in 26 flat do think maybe thats why he never got to the front right off the bat? paul was leaving, and he did leave more then he did last week, but he got out stepped. The beach has never been a real fast leaver, and most people realize a quater in 26 over the meadowlands is a quater in 25 and change at mohawk(the beach has never showed that kind of early step period!!)
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race track phil
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« Reply #40 on: July 21, 2008, 08:54:03 PM »

Well, you can excuse Paul Mac's drive, but I don't.

Never mind what he did at the half, or the 3/4, etc -- he lost the race for his colt in the *first* quarter by making a bad decision, and then following it up with indecision.

He had to know that the outside speed was going to gun up to the top -- why was he so slow leaving the gate, when his horse hadn't ever been headed before? But no, he doesn't leave, and in the scramble to make the top, there was Paul Mac, outfooted by 7 horses & sitting in back playing with himself. I knew right there he was beat -- I said to my buddy, "Look, MacDonnell just blew it! He doesn't know where he's supposed to be!"

If he guns to the top, he has control, with the fastest 3 year old in the world at his fingertips. Others could have tried to take the top, and he could sit for awhile if he wanted, or pull and go right around them. Either move would have worked, had he avoided traffic trouble earlier.

But that first quarter -- that bad decision to not leave, followed by driver indecision on where to be on the racetrack, followed by a long, hard, and fast grind to the top -- *that* is what beat SBSW, not a "better" horse. Driver error. Go ahead and say it. That's how it's going to be judged in the long run.

You MacDonnell apologists need to go back and watch that race again and ask yourselves, "Why didn't he leave and get good early position?"...then come back and tell us with a straight face why SBSW's loss wasn't MacDonnell's fault.
   Horse voice    We are on the same mind of kinda !   I think he had one thing on his mind and that was to leave a little and sweep up and take the lead !   The reason he lost was when he moved on the outside in front of Campbell and seen that it was in question whether Pierce was going to let Gingrass go or not it would have been real simple to duck in on the rail and wait and see what happens with those in front !  It seems like everyone is only interested in the fact he was parked and if the 3 wide move was correct !
      The fact is real simple he made a mistake by not ducking in the hole and probably would been able to sit in till it was time to move when the battle was over in front and that bull about being the best horse stuff and you can drive him anyway and still win is just plain bull . He was in error for not adjusting to the race period . He gave Pierce the opportunity to sting him real good going 3 wide and Pierce even said so !   That opportunity would not have occurred if he waited for Bullville to clear or run out of gas and forget that bull about getting locked as I said before the other horses were never in the hunt period . The posters who think he did a good job and only got beat because it was a fast race and Art Official was better than anyone would think is dead wrong !  SBSW if he sat for an 1/8 of a mile probably would have went faster than 147 . I disagree and thats what makes racing and I would bet Pierce would say Paul made a mistake and he didn't if he wanted to share his private thoughts with the public , but we know that would never happen ! I also want to say that those who think he thought it would be easy to clear 3 wide were wrong just like Paul !  Take the rail in fourth for a breather and we wouldn't be talking about this cause the Beach would have jogged with one big move at the right time and not run out of gas to speak even though they ran 147 !   Bad adjustment to a race and there's no excuse and its got nothing to do with the final outcome on replay in hindsight !  It was there for the adjustment after the quarter and he chose to stay with his original plan brush up in the backside and make the lead !   WRONG !

                                          RTP
        This isn't the first time nor the last where you will see an over over confident drive that will get a horse beat !
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cashman
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« Reply #41 on: July 21, 2008, 08:58:06 PM »

anderson would of had the drive if he wasn't hurt trainer said so
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HarnessGuy1
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« Reply #42 on: July 21, 2008, 09:12:40 PM »

Yeap, it is Anderson's drive, but he will be out until fall. Anderson would have drove him well and would have won. Art is a great horse this year, people should not underestimate him. He can grind it out and still push through and go strong until the end. Great race, great horse. Look forward to seeing Art in more races.
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« Reply #43 on: July 21, 2008, 09:25:57 PM »

Regarding last yrs pace 

Watch it again.  Still want to know why Tell All wasn't taken down. 
His driver put whip in AAvirgin's face causing him to break and lose the race.
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Horse Voice
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« Reply #44 on: July 21, 2008, 09:42:21 PM »

Horse voice


if you would have listened to paul and Mark macgraths interview last week after the elim you would know that the beach has issues in behind the gate, hes still very green and considering they went a quater in 26 flat do think maybe thats why he never got to the front right off the bat?

Didn't hear that, but I would have laughed out loud if I had -- "he's still very green"?? 10 for 10 lifetime, fastest 3 yo pacer in the world, and still green.

OK, fine -- for sake of argument we'll say SBSW couldn't make the top (even though he could do so every other week, but whatever).

How do you explain the rest of MacDonnell's first quarter move, which really wasn't a move, so much as it was everybody else making a move and MacDonnell not knowing what the hell to do?
 
Did you go back and watch that replay yet? Or do you want to make more excuses for MacDonnell, and tell us more about how SBSW was "green"?
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njhorseman
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« Reply #45 on: July 21, 2008, 09:50:39 PM »

Regarding last yrs pace 

Watch it again.  Still want to know why Tell All wasn't taken down. 
His driver put whip in AAvirgin's face causing him to break and lose the race.

Absolutely untrue. A while after the race, trainer Joe Holloway and driver Brian Sears finally admitted that AAV broke because Sears caught him with the whip in what all men know to be a very delicate spot.
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njhorseman
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« Reply #46 on: July 21, 2008, 09:55:51 PM »

Didn't hear that, but I would have laughed out loud if I had -- "he's still very green"?? 10 for 10 lifetime, fastest 3 yo pacer in the world, and still green.

OK, fine -- for sake of argument we'll say SBSW couldn't make the top (even though he could do so every other week, but whatever).

How do you explain the rest of MacDonnell's first quarter move, which really wasn't a move, so much as it was everybody else making a move and MacDonnell not knowing what the hell to do?
 
Did you go back and watch that replay yet? Or do you want to make more excuses for MacDonnell, and tell us more about how SBSW was "green"?


Yes, a horse can still be green after 10 races.

If you look at SBSW"s past performances, you'll see that MacDonell doesn't leave hard with him about half the time. In those races he made quarter moves to the front.
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Dolfan
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« Reply #47 on: July 21, 2008, 10:08:38 PM »

Great race - just watched it again from the youtube link above - watching it a second time, it appears to me that there was a point Pierce was content with and trying to let Gingras clear him past the quarter - watch him grab - and watch Mucho Sleazy knock Pierce in the head - its only when macdonnell tips 3 deep that pierce decides to go on - if Gingras clears Pierce past the quarter - macdonnell is the likely winner and pierce has to make a choice whether to pull first over or sit in a 3 hole -

Does anyone agree with what I see ? 

Didn't watch it again yet but my initial thought was Pierce would have given it up to Gingras & retaken, knowing that he had the 2nd best horse if Macdonnel would have just settled in & waited for things to clear up as they do in almost every race.

Anderson would have drove him well and would have won.

LMAO on this one.  I like Ryan but that has to be one of the most humorous comments I can imagine.  Pierce is top 5 in the world & that's the only reason that he got past SBSW - not to take anything away from Art Official who is clearly the 2nd best 3 y.o. pacer.

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« Reply #48 on: July 21, 2008, 10:20:00 PM »

hey I never made the comment about him being green, that was made by the owner. I was only repeating it. You're right he has raced 10 times and you're right he shouldnt be green, but they treated him like something that could be broke like a tooth pick, in my opinion they've babied the horse right from the get go. And actually he hasnt gone right to the front in many of his races this year, he usually floats out of there, lets everyone settle and then trucks to the front, and usually everyone hands it to him on a silver platter. The point I was trying to make is Paul never drove the horse any different this week then  he has in the past weeks, the difference was a couple other drivers decided they would finally take a shot at him. It changed the whole complex of the race. And no one in their right mind was expecting the kinda of race Art official threw in on saturday. Like Paul said, if he had expected that, he probably would have driven his horse differently. As for the rest of the first quater, some people will argue he was interfered with in the first turn, in my opinion Im not sure if he was. But Im thinking, if Ronnie sees the beach tuck in the 3 hole, Ronnie is backing into them, and then it would have been someone else second over behind Yannick, and that would have meant the beach was locked in. yes the agressive drive is what got him beat, but it was only an extra agressive drive because finally the others drivers took a run at him and made him earn it. Thats the way horse racing should be, and the Pace was a million times better race the The NAC was this year because of it.
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Horse Voice
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« Reply #49 on: July 21, 2008, 10:26:28 PM »

Yes, a horse can still be green after 10 races.

Not surprised that you concur -- when did a trainer ever see an excuse he didn't like?
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