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Author Topic: Want to save $100 Billion a year in taxes?  (Read 8695 times)
Moon
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« on: July 17, 2008, 12:57:46 PM »

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/07/16/AR2008071603035.html?wpisrc=newsletter&wpisrc=newsletter

That would pay for Universal Health Care and much more!
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mel4600
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« Reply #1 on: July 17, 2008, 01:46:13 PM »

Get rid of the loons!
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Moon
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« Reply #2 on: July 17, 2008, 03:07:22 PM »

mel, are you upset because someone might get on to your tax haven??

You're not upset that millionaires are sheltering billions to keep from paying taxes?

This I don't understand. Why do you keep yourself in the foot? Obama wants to raise the taxes on the rich back to where they were in the halcyon days of Clinton and you get all upset, even though it won't affect you at all.

Now, here are bunch of millionaires hiding money in tax havens and it doesn't bother you, even though it could lower your taxes or pay down the debt or give everybody better benefits.
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CLOCKERTERRY
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« Reply #3 on: July 17, 2008, 03:21:09 PM »

mel, are you upset because someone might get on to your tax haven??

You're not upset that millionaires are sheltering billions to keep from paying taxes?

This I don't understand. Why do you keep yourself in the foot? Obama wants to raise the taxes on the rich back to where they were in the halcyon days of Clinton and you get all upset, even though it won't affect you at all.

Now, here are bunch of millionaires hiding money in tax havens and it doesn't bother you, even though it could lower your taxes or pay down the debt or give everybody better benefits.

It's like I explained before on the other side. These guys are like the po' white folk that fought on the side of the South in the Civil War. None of them were the big plantation owners, but they fought for that way of life because they believed one day they MIGHT be a plantation owner, too.
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Kenneth J. Chadwick
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« Reply #4 on: July 17, 2008, 03:38:28 PM »

It's like I explained before on the other side. These guys are like the po' white folk that fought on the side of the South in the Civil War. None of them were the big plantation owners, but they fought for that way of life because they believed one day they MIGHT be a plantation owner, too.

Dear ClockerTerry:


You are dead nuts right.

That's everybody's dream.

I wanted to be a professional ballplayer.

I work as hard as humanly possible.

Unfortunately, I did not have the God given talent.

That keeps the fire in the belly.


Kenneth J. Chadwick

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CLOCKERTERRY
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« Reply #5 on: July 17, 2008, 03:54:27 PM »

I wanted to be a professional ballplayer.

I wanted to be a circus clown, one of the many that piled out of one of the little clown cars.

Apparently, both of us had our dreams shattered.
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Kenneth J. Chadwick
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« Reply #6 on: July 17, 2008, 04:05:49 PM »

I wanted to be a circus clown, one of the many that piled out of one of the little clown cars.

Apparently, both of us had our dreams shattered.

I was 20 years old when my baseball career ended.

Good but not good enough.


Kenneth J. Chadwick

Outfielder, fast, hit everything, but not good enough. 
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FreeLegged
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« Reply #7 on: July 17, 2008, 04:42:53 PM »

I was 20 years old when my baseball career ended.

Good but not good enough.


Kenneth J. Chadwick

Outfielder, fast, hit everything, but not good enough. 

Kenny,
they tell me that you couldnt lay off the slider in the dirt.
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mel4600
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« Reply #8 on: July 17, 2008, 05:05:25 PM »

mel, are you upset because someone might get on to your tax haven??

You're not upset that millionaires are sheltering billions to keep from paying taxes?

This I don't understand. Why do you keep yourself in the foot? Obama wants to raise the taxes on the rich back to where they were in the halcyon days of Clinton and you get all upset, even though it won't affect you at all.

Now, here are bunch of millionaires hiding money in tax havens and it doesn't bother you, even though it could lower your taxes or pay down the debt or give everybody better benefits.

Moon,

Unlike you, I don't want anyone to support me. I don't want money from the sweat of someone's effort that I had nothing to do with. I know you have a hard time understanding that so If you want to know what I am saying, just give the government half of your portfolio, agreed? When you are willing to do that, then I will agree with you.

Lets remove the tax havens and have a flat tax, how's that?
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Kenneth J. Chadwick
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« Reply #9 on: July 17, 2008, 05:33:40 PM »

Here is an Article from THE AICPA INSIDER, I just read today.

A little teckie, but if you want the entire article, just PM me. 

I just pulled one bite, that summarizes how the US stands compared to the rest of the world.


The Jury Is In

U.S. companies are overtaxed relative to their international competitors.

July 17, 2008
by Charles Swenson, PhD/CPA and Namryoung Lee, PhD/CPA

Also consistent with expectations, U.S.-based companies pay an effective rate of approximately 29 percent, three percentage points above the worldwide average of approximately 26 percent.



Kenneth J. Chadwick
« Last Edit: July 17, 2008, 05:38:14 PM by Kenneth J. Chadwick » Report to moderator   Logged

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CLOCKERTERRY
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« Reply #10 on: July 17, 2008, 05:53:17 PM »

Here is an Article from THE AICPA INSIDER, I just read today.

A little teckie, but if you want the entire article, just PM me. 

I just pulled one bite, that summarizes how the US stands compared to the rest of the world.


The Jury Is In

U.S. companies are overtaxed relative to their international competitors.

July 17, 2008
by Charles Swenson, PhD/CPA and Namryoung Lee, PhD/CPA

Also consistent with expectations, U.S.-based companies pay an effective rate of approximately 29 percent, three percentage points above the worldwide average of approximately 26 percent.

How are U.S. individuals taxed, compared to the worldwide average?
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Mel from Moline
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« Reply #11 on: July 17, 2008, 06:03:01 PM »

How about NO personal taxes of any kind and just a national sales tax? Huckabee's 23% seems a little high, but say a 10% sales tax for all us homosapiens on everything we buy would be pretty effective, wouldn't it? A lot of people think that would be too much burden on poor people percentage wise, but i find that hard to believe. I can spend my money where, when and on what I want and pay my same percentage of my income as the millionaire with his bentleys and summer/winter homes. God Bless America and it's leaders lack of desire to do anything that will actually work for the MOST amount of people.
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Kenneth J. Chadwick
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« Reply #12 on: July 17, 2008, 06:04:08 PM »

How are U.S. individuals taxed, compared to the worldwide average?

The article dealt with Corporations.

I never seen an article on individuals.

Extremely difficult.

You have different standards of living, cost of living, lot of variables.
You have take a look at VATs (Value Added Taxes), this is national sales tax.  A lot of Europian countries have this.

If I see an Article before election time I will pass it along.

My take on this is that we are above the average in tax(IMO).


Kenneth J. Chadwick   
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Dan Villeky
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« Reply #13 on: July 17, 2008, 06:09:56 PM »

I wanted to be a circus clown, one of the many that piled out of one of the little clown cars.

Apparently, both of us had our dreams shattered.

You're a "clown" but rather than a circus clown you're a socialist clown.
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Kenneth J. Chadwick
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« Reply #14 on: July 17, 2008, 06:14:22 PM »

How about NO personal taxes of any kind and just a national sales tax? Huckabee's 23% seems a little high, but say a 10% sales tax for all us homosapiens on everything we buy would be pretty effective, wouldn't it? A lot of people think that would be too much burden on poor people percentage wise, but i find that hard to believe. I can spend my money where, when and on what I want and pay my same percentage of my income as the millionaire with his bentleys and summer/winter homes. Gof Bless America and it's leaders lack of desire to do anything that will actually work for the MOST amount of people.

A national sales tax a/k/a as a consumption tax is extremely regressive.

It puts the bite on individuals at the end of the food chain.  A real major bite on these folks.

It would kill the underground economy.  In other words, the skimmers and tax cheats. Bomb Bomb Bomb Bomb

Sales taxes are easy to collect.  Not much administration in this arena.

There have been studies on it and that's why you don't see the politicans  maroon pounding away on it.


Kenneth J. Chadwick
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Mel from Moline
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« Reply #15 on: July 17, 2008, 06:21:38 PM »

KJC, what exactly does that mean, "a bite on those at the bottom of the food chain"? I mentioned poor people, do you mean by "skimmers and tax cheats" organized crime? Or lawyers? Or what? You kind of agree but then disagree. Look at how this would affect all the illegals? as they would then pay the same share as everyone else? This makes TOO much sense and thats why it will never happen.
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Kenneth J. Chadwick
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« Reply #16 on: July 17, 2008, 06:37:37 PM »

KJC, what exactly does that mean, "a bite on those at the bottom of the food chain"? I mentioned poor people, do you mean by "skimmers and tax cheats" organized crime? Or lawyers? Or what? You kind of agree but then disagree. Look at how this would affect all the illegals? as they would then pay the same share as everyone else? This makes TOO much sense and thats why it will never happen.

"a bite on those at the bottom of the food chain"? Poor people, a higher percentage of their income would be taxed.  National Sales Tax is a flat tax.  Everyone pays the same rate.
 
"skimmers and tax cheats"
organized crime?  Not organizer crime
Or lawyers?  Lawyers are as honest as other professionals.  You always have a few bad apples.  This goes for all professions
Skimmers are those who don't report their income.  They just cheat.  They are selfemployed.  They may own a laundrymat, restaurant, service business, beauticians, waitresses etc.  What they don't know is that the IRS has a national program in place in finding these tax cheats.  They do what is called a "net worth test."
If I sat down with you and started to ask you a few questions, like what kind of car do you drive, how much real estate taxes do you pay, married, divorce, kids etc.  I know how much money you should make.  If you don't make that "much money" I hope you have rich mommy or daddy that is supporting your life style.

This talent I have is nothing special.  The IRS is hiring former CPAs to do this exact thing.
It takes the IRS a few more years to get their act together.  They are getting better.   
 


Kenneth J. Chadwick
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Moon
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« Reply #17 on: July 17, 2008, 06:43:21 PM »

Moon,

Unlike you, I don't want anyone to support me. I don't want money from the sweat of someone's effort that I had nothing to do with. I know you have a hard time understanding that so If you want to know what I am saying, just give the government half of your portfolio, agreed? When you are willing to do that, then I will agree with you.

Lets remove the tax havens and have a flat tax, how's that?

I don't want anybody to support me either. And nobody does. That's completely unrelated. This is talking about people doing illegal stuff to avoid paying taxes that keep the USA running.

Why do you hate America?
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Moon
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« Reply #18 on: July 17, 2008, 06:49:28 PM »

How are U.S. individuals taxed, compared to the worldwide average?

Believe it or not, Americans enjoy some of the lowest income tax rates in the world.

http://moneycentral.msn.com/content/Taxes/P148855.asp

/I'm sure this will be attacked as a "Loony Liberal" website. It's MSN.com after all, which is run by those "Loony Liberals", Bill Gates and Steve Balmer.
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Moon
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My new motto: Remain Vertical!




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« Reply #19 on: July 17, 2008, 06:55:36 PM »

How about NO personal taxes of any kind and just a national sales tax? Huckabee's 23% seems a little high, but say a 10% sales tax for all us homosapiens on everything we buy would be pretty effective, wouldn't it? A lot of people think that would be too much burden on poor people percentage wise, but i find that hard to believe. I can spend my money where, when and on what I want and pay my same percentage of my income as the millionaire with his bentleys and summer/winter homes. God Bless America and it's leaders lack of desire to do anything that will actually work for the MOST amount of people.

I think Huckabee's 23% is realistic. I heard from other sources that it would end up at 25%. Of course, the flat taxers say they can do it with only 10%.

So, this would be ANOTHER huge tax cut for the rich, while AGAIN moving the tax burden to the poor. Whether it's 10% or 25%, it's a huge cut for the rich. And, of course, since it would transfer most of the responsibility for paying the cost of government to the states, the middle class would end up paying for it all, further reducing the middle class and establishing an even wider rich/poor split. Not good for anyone.
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Kenneth J. Chadwick
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« Reply #20 on: July 17, 2008, 07:02:16 PM »

Believe it or not, Americans enjoy some of the lowest income tax rates in the world.
http://moneycentral.msn.com/content/Taxes/P148855.asp
/I'm sure this will be attacked as a "Loony Liberal" website. It's MSN.com after all, which is run by those "Loony Liberals", Bill Gates and Steve Balmer.

Moon:

You can't just put your sound bite to justify your position.
You lose creditability.

A paragraph that Moon "inadvisedly" omitted.


"Citizens in these other countries are paying more money, but they are getting more back, in terms of social programs, said Christopher Heady, head of tax policy for the Paris-based think tank Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development, or OECD. Its a choice the electorate makes".


Kenneth J. Chadwick 




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Moon
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« Reply #21 on: July 17, 2008, 07:21:55 PM »

Moon:

You can't just put your sound bite to justify your position.
You lose creditability.

A paragraph that Moon "inadvisedly" omitted.


"Citizens in these other countries are paying more money, but they are getting more back, in terms of social programs, said Christopher Heady, head of tax policy for the Paris-based think tank Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development, or OECD. Its a choice the electorate makes".


Kenneth J. Chadwick 






I didn't omit anything. I didn't INCLUDE anything. I gave you the url and let you judge for yourself. I wish more of you would do that. I can't get any links from ANY of you!!!

Sheesh.

But you are BS-ing. That statement is only for a FEW countries. Here's the chart:
    
The Basics
Think your taxes are bad?

Every year, you grimace as you sign your return. Imagine what it's like in Belgium or Hungary, where taxes can take half your pay. Plus: the wackiest taxes on record.

 By Debora Vrana

Believe it or not, Americans enjoy some of the lowest income tax rates in the world. Today of all days, it might not seem so.

When you look at the overall tax burden, the U.S. is quite low," said Eric Toder, a senior fellow at the Urban Institute in Washington, D.C., and former director of the office of research for the Internal Revenue Service.

For a family with one wage-earner and two children, only Iceland and Ireland have a lower income tax burden than the U.S., according to the most recent data for 2005.


At the top, Sweden, Turkey, France and Poland impose the biggest tax burdens on families, but in most of those countries families get added social services, such as secure pensions and health care.

Citizens in these other countries are paying more money, but they are getting more back, in terms of social programs, said Christopher Heady, head of tax policy for the Paris-based think tank Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development, or OECD. Its a choice the electorate makes.


The OECD collects data on 30 member countries and annually calculates what it calls the tax "wedge" for each -- the combined effects of personal income tax, employee and employer social security contributions, payroll taxes and cash benefits.

 Tax burdens around the world
Country   Single, no kids   Married, 2 kids   
Australia   28.3%   16.0%   
Korea   17.3%   16.2%
Austria   47.4%   35.5%   
Luxembourg   35.3%   12.2%
Belgium   55.4%   40.3%   
Mexico   18.2%   18.2%
Canada   31.6%   21.5%   
Netherlands   38.6%   29.1%
Czech Republic   43.8%   27.1%   
New Zealand   20.5%   14.5%
Denmark   41.4%   29.6%   
Norway   37.3%   29.6%
Finland   44.6%   38.4%   
Poland   43.6%   42.1%
France   50.1%   41.7%   
Portugal   36.2%   26.6%
Germany   51.8%   35.7%   
Slovak Republic   38.3%   23.2%
Greece   38.8%   39.2%   
Spain           39.0%   33.4%
Hungary   50.5%   39.9%   
Sweden   47.9%   42.4%
Iceland   29.0%   11.0%   
Switzerland   29.5%   18.6%
Ireland   25.7%   8.1%   
Turkey   42.7%   42.7%
Italy           45.4%   35.2%   
United Kingdom   33.5%   27.1%
Japan    27.7%   24.9%   
United States   29.1%   11.9%

It looks like there are only a FEW countries who pay less than us: Ireland and Iceland only for married couples.
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Kenneth J. Chadwick
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« Reply #22 on: July 17, 2008, 07:27:03 PM »

I didn't omit anything. I didn't INCLUDE anything.!!
Sheesh.

Moon,
What kind of double talk is that? doh
I didn't omit anything.
I didn't INCLUDE anything.!!

You got 32 on your ACT! 


Kenneth J. Chadwick
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Moon
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« Reply #23 on: July 17, 2008, 07:31:07 PM »

Yeah, check it out, Ken. You omitted the paragraph right BEFORE the one you posted, which makes a HUGE difference, doesn't it?
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Moon
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« Reply #24 on: July 17, 2008, 07:39:05 PM »

Our tax freedom day is earlier than anybody except India!

Tax Freedom Days for countries by date Country    Day of Year     % Burden    Date of Year    Updated    Source    Reference
India    74    20%    14 March    2000    Centre for Civil Society    [3]
United States    113    30.8%    23 April    2008    Tax Foundation    [4]
Estonia    114    31.1%    24 April    2007    Eesti Maksumaksjate Liit (Estonian Taxpayers Association)    [5]
Australia    114    31.1%    24 April    2007    Centre for Independent Studies    [6]
South Africa    132    36%    12 May    2008    Free Market Foundation    [7]
Hungary    140    38%    20 May    2008    Hungarian Central Statistic Institute    [Cool
New Zealand    141    39%    21 May    2008    Staples Rodway    [9]
Spain    141    39%    21 May    2008    Institución Futuro    [10]
Slovakia    142    38.8%    22 May    2008    Nadácia F.A.Hayeka    [11]
Brazil    147    40%    27 May    2008    Instituto Brasileiro de Planejamento Tributario    [12]
Lithuania    150    41%    30 May    2008    Lithuanian Free Market Institute    [13]
United Kingdom    153    42%    2 June    2008    Adam Smith Institute    [14]
Belgium    161    44.1%    10 June    2008    PricewaterhouseCoopers    [15]
Czech Republic    161    44.1%    11 June    2007    Liberalni Institut    [16]
Croatia    164    45%    13 June    2008    The Adriatic Institute for Public Policy    [17]
Canada    165    44.8%    14 June    2008    Fraser Institute    [18]
Slovenia    168    46%    17 June    2008    Free Society Institute    [19]
Poland    175    48%    25 June    2007    Centrum im. Adama Smitha    [20]
Germany    185    50.68%    5 July    2006    Bund der Steuerzahler    [21]
France    197    53,6%    16 July    2007    Contribuables associés    [22]
Sweden    209    57%    29 July    2007    skattebetalarna    [23]
Norway    210    56.7%    29 July    2007    Skattebetalerforeningen    [24]
Israel    214    58.6%    2 August    2007    Jerusalem Institute for Market Studies    [25]
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